Glue or no glue?

[Randy Rizzo]

Need some opinions. glue or no glue. I’m putting together a bassinet for a grandchild due May 1. I’m at the point where I’m ready to start putting it together. it’s going to be a complicated glue up, lots of mortise and tenon joints that all need to go together at the same time, and I’m one man band. I’m afraid the time it’s going to take glue will have already started to set in some in the first joints. I thought about doweling the tenons into the mortise, no glue, well just a dab in the dowel hole but that’s it. The only dowels are going to be where the rail attach to the ends. Have any of you done a “dry” joint? How did it hold up, humidity, loosen up any, or drying, shrinkage etc. The tenons are 2” wide, 3/4” long, I was going to use two hardwood dowels per joint. I had intended using 3/16” round hardwood purchased at the local hardware and just cut lengths to suit. See the attached photo, it's a mockup in construction grade pine to check potential construction problems and sizing. There are 8 rails that would need to be inserted into opposing ends. I planned on pre assembling the ends and then tackling the rail insertion. Getting the mockup put together was a real hassle, thus I'm looking for alternate methods. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

[John TenEyck]

I would glue it up in sections. Glue up the ends as you said. Then put the thing together but only glue the tenons in one end. When that has dried, remove the end panel you didn't glue, apply glue, and reassemble. If you think you still need more time for assembly of those 8 or tenons, use Titebond Extend or liquid hide glue.

John

[Mike Henderson]

I agree with doing it in sections. If you want a glue with a really long open time, West Systems epoxy has some with at least an hour of open time.

Mike

[Sam Murdoch]

Titebond III to Titebond Extend will give you more time to work (10 minutes w/III to 1/2 hour w/ Extend). Leave your work space on the cool side will help too. Definitely have your panels made up and perhaps even finished ahead of time. If you finish the panels you won't need to sweat getting glue squeeze out which is inevitable. You can just wipe down as needed without the panic. On that note finish your slats too before assembly. Tape the tenons and cover the mortices (or set in some foam strips or other loose nonabsorbent material into the mortises) if you are an exuberant finisher.

Do a dry fit for practice and to check that all is well, then when the time comes to assemble just keep cool and work methodically. No need to over glue. Clamp the assembly together - check for square - reset the clamps as needed then walk away. I don't think the dowels will be necessary except perhaps as a detail using a different wood specie. The dowels, in any case, could be bored and set after the assembly is all solid. You could just as easily add screws through the rails into the slats and cover those with bungs if you are concerned about the long term structural integrity. Good glue joints should be more than adequate.

Nice design too!

[Bill Orbine]

Elmer's white glue has good clamping time.

[Wade Lippman]

I had a glue up I figured would take at least a half hour. I used epoxy. Still good.

[Davis Young]

A dry fit including clamping up is a good idea. You'll know how many clamps you'll need as well as other tools that may come in handy (mallets, cauls, etc). Time yourself as if doing the real thing to see how doable it is. Something I've done that is very helpful is to have a glue buddy. It speeds up the time to apply glue, you don't have to run back and forth to position long clamps, and it's great for handling heavy or awkward assemblies. A glue buddy doesn't have to be a knowledgable woodworker, anybody who can follow directions will do. Make sure he or she is involved in the timed dry fit so everybody knows what needs to be done.

[Frank Martin]

Long open time epoxy is your friend.

[Randy Rizzo]

Thanks for all the input, I like the sectional approach with some modification. Just put glue on the top L/R rails, the one piece plywood mattress support screwed to cleats on the bottom rail, and ends will keep the bottom pulled together, and the middle two aren't going anywhere. Some of the ideas suggested are certainly a "DUH" moment, why didn't I see that. You get to looking at a situation and can't see the forest for the trees. Pre finishing individual pieces also a winner.

[Mark Gibney]

I'm a big fan of using Gorilla glue when I need a long open time, but as Sam suggested above, you'd be well advised to have a coat of finish on the pieces, then you can wipe the squeeze out off with alcohol, no panic.

[pat warner]

Tho complicated and takes a lot longer than gluing, one of the reasons (glue assembly problems) I use joint connectors (http://patwarner.com/images/connector_bolt.jpg).

[Steve Jenkins]

Another glue option is plastic resin glue. Longer open time and water cleanup

[Doug Garson]

As others have said do a dry fit first to make sure you have adequate clamps, in addition you may want match mark the pieces to ensure you assemble the glued pieces in the same place and orientation as the dry fit.

[Randy Rose]

I use construction adhesive when I need a long assembly window

[Robert Engel]

Hide glue.

[Randy Red Bemont]

Liquid hide glue (titebond) will be your best friend with this project. Long working time and cures rock solid.

Red

[Curt Harms]

I had a glue up I figured would take at least a half hour. I used epoxy. Still good.


System 3 T88 Epoxy is available at Woodcraft and has that kind of open time. I've also used RooGlue clear (because I had it). Marketed primarily as a Hi Pressure Laminate glue but it works on other things as well. 20 minutes open time, some moisture resistance but can't be saturated for hours. No mixing, water cleanup. Worth having around at $5.56/pt. plus shipping. RooGlue sells a wood glue but I know nothing about that.