Bowsaw build, or why grain orientation matters.

[Matt Evans]

I've been trying to get to some of the tool making projects I've had on the back burner for a while during my slow season. This is bow saw one of three that I plan to build this week.


I don't have pictures of all the steps, but it is basically dimension stock, lay out, chop tenons, cut mortises, drill holes, cut curves, bevel edges, make handles, make slider and tension bar, test fit everything.

I still have a bit to go on this one. As you'll see in the next post, things can go horribly awry in the test fit phase when you neglect to account for the grain on the staves/uprights, whatever they may be called.

[Matt Evans]

Lack of attention to grain orientation results in failure. Time to remake one side.

I thought I had accounted for the grain, but apparently not. You think I would have double checked the grain seeing as my 12" bowsaw I built split on both sides at different times, and is glued back together and reinforced with baling wire. Inelegant to say the least, but I've been using it that way for three years now. Its one of the three saws I plan on building in the coming week.(rebuilding in that particular case)

[Tony Wilkins]

The Woodwright shop with Bill Anderson building a bow saw talked about grain orientation a bit. You're not alone because the original he based his on had had an arm replaced. Where did you get the pins?

this is something I want to tackle someday.

[Matt Evans]

Tony,

I just sawed a slot in some 3/8" steel bar stock, drilled a hole through it and set the ends into some handles I turned.

[Kees Heiden]

What kind of wood do you use?

[Matt Evans]

Bowsaw is finished, finally. A low quality picture or two, will likely need to get better ones later on.

I remade the upright that broke, then in the test fit the other upright broke at the mortise. So, remade that one as well, modifying the tenon to be much shallower. Also, the uprights had been cherry, now they are Beech.

Cuts well, but it is a tad top heavy for my taste. Might have to shave some weight off of the toggle assembly. The Beech is heavier than the cherry was, which seems to make a difference in the balance.

Kees, the Wood used is Beech, with a piece of curly maple for the stretcher, and some turned cherry handles.

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

The uprights look a littlebit too long IMO, maybe thats why it feels top heavy.

[lowell holmes]

I made a bowsaw with the kit from Tools for Working Wood (Joel Moskowitz) using figured maple.

Guess what, one of the arms broke twice. After I made an arm using qs white oak, the arm doesn't break.

If you can't get the beech, you might want to consider as white oak.

[Kees Heiden]

Beech is a good choice indeed. Otherwise ash or oak or one of those indestructables like hickory.

[Dave Beauchesne]

There was a flurry is saws made a few years back by SMCers. I supplied Yew to a couple members and made one myself out of Yew.
Fun project.
Nicely done.
Dave B

[Frederick Skelly]

Lack of attention to grain orientation results in failure. Time to remake one side.

I thought I had accounted for the grain, but apparently not. You think I would have double checked the grain seeing as my 12" bowsaw I built split on both sides at different times, and is glued back together and reinforced with baling wire. Inelegant to say the least, but I've been using it that way for three years now. Its one of the three saws I plan on building in the coming week.(rebuilding in that particular case)

Matt, I would have oriented the grain the same as YOU did, and suffered the same failure. But just now I'm coming up blank - what SHOULD the grain orientation look like? To my poor eye, the grain direction on the finished saw looks much like it was on the failed part. Can you vclear me up please?

Thanks,
Fred

[Stewie Simpson]

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/thythy_/levers.png (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj_pbfFo4rLAhVDnqYKHXBGD6YQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.vinagames.org%2Fshowthread .php%3Ft%3D25529%26langid%3D1&psig=AFQjCNGNfZm9AmOGS4JWmzY3xlzlwZJbYA&ust=1456192687971163)

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/extra/images/bowsaw/Mortice.gif

[Mike Holbrook]

Wood Joy tools offers such a great deal on bowsaw prices I just bought my 400 mm saw there. Glenn also offers: handles (with the pins inserted in them) and Japanese turbo cut saw blades: universal, rip or cross-cut. The Japanese blades cut fast with their hardened teeth. The 400 mm size with a jigging and universal blade can handle lots of different cutting tasks. The winding mechanism on Glenn's saws is much better, allowing for precise half twists, with the in string housing for the winder.

[Derek Cohen]

I really must try another bandsaw. I built one about 15 or so years ago as an experiment ... a few scraps of Oak and Jarrah, made the mechanism out of bolts, and the saw plate out of an expired wide bandsaw blade. It was pre-lathe days and I turned the handles on the drill press! It worked well enough cutting dovetails, but never set my heart racing. I was impressed that it did take a high degree of tensioning. Anyway, I post the old photos to show the grain ...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Bowsawparts1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/saws/Bowsaw11.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Stewie Simpson]

Not overly functional within its design Derek; but it sure does look pretty.

regards Stewie;

[Derek Cohen]

My thoughts exactly, Stewie.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pat Barry]

Matt, I would have oriented the grain the same as YOU did, and suffered the same failure. But just now I'm coming up blank - what SHOULD the grain orientation look like? To my poor eye, the grain direction on the finished saw looks much like it was on the failed part. Can you vclear me up please?

Thanks,
Fred
I suspect that a proper maker of tools such as this would have started with wood that was split, not cut, in order to get the proper grain direction and then would have done as Stewie suggested with the joinery. If you are starting with lumber you have on hand, getting the grain direction can be significantly more difficult. At least the face grain, if you will, is showing in the OP's photo so that's the best orientation, but it does seem that the wood was not orientated as quarter sawn and then the material removed for the joinery created a stress riser and resultant failure.

[Stewie Simpson]

When I was seriously into making bowsaws (Turning Saws) I purchased a heap of Nos 12 inch traditional blades from the U.K. I still have approx. 40 unused blades in the workshop.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/turning%20saw%20blades/_DSC0044_zpsi0q5nfma.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/turning%20saw%20blades/_DSC0044_zpsi0q5nfma.jpg.html)

[Matt Evans]

Frederick and Pat, I have built several bowsaws ( and many bows) and am normally pretty conscientious of the grain direction. I normally go with split billet or bowstave material, but wanted to use up that cherry which looked to have good grain at first glance. Once the second cheek snapped, I looked at grain and wood structure, and found some tiny spalt or rot areas through out the wood.

When I was working on the other saws I dug into some bowstaves I had. Turning saw is Black Locust, Medium saw is walnut with osage handles.

I have some sassafrass, hickory and osage billets I may be making into bowsaws in the near future. Need to get a few more blades first, and turn down some tapered brass pins for the handles. The medium saw I turned tapered pins for, and it does hold the blade straight much better than the other two.

Not sure who mentioned it, but yes, on that first saw the uprights are way to long/tall. Luckily, the blade is more or less a firewood blade, so I doubt it'll get used much.