Even More new guy questions...thanks in advance

[Steve Russell tucker]

So i have a 12 inch craftsman tube style wood lathe I am trying my hand at making a smallish bowl so Ive changed the jaws on the G3 nova chuck to the mini Cole jaws this is the first time I'm using these jaws and they seem to hold my bowl pretty well but i was reading the instruction booklet that came with them and It says that I shouldn't use these jaws at any speed over 600rpms... so that is my dilemma..... my lathe says its slowest speed is 875rpms Ive made a couple little things just fooling around and I love turning but I truly don't know how to get it any slower or if that's even possible so my first question is that going to give me enough of a problem that I won't be able to use these jaws ? and while I'm on the subject of speed , When should I turn the speed up ? This lathe is the step pulley/ belt variety and I've pretty much just left it on the slowest speed until I get better at the lathe (assuming that ever happens) once again thank any and all of you for any help and info or advice you can give I truly appreciate it , and I look forward to learning something new .
Thank you,
S.

[robert baccus]

I really don't like or use cole jaws, but, can you pull up your tailstock to lock it in.

[Steve Russell tucker]

Yes sir I can do that and forgive my inexperience but if I have the tail stock holding it how do I remove the tenon from the bottom of the thing that sort of resembles a bowl ?

[Tom Brouillette]

You can still do it. You leave just enough of the tenon to hold the bowl steady. You can then finish the remainder of the bottom. Carefully trim off the small remainder with a chisel and sand it smooth. That's how I do it. This is not as good a description as seeing it. YouTube is full of great instructional videos.

[Aaron Craven]

I've not used cole jaws before (I don't own any, so I've not had the opportunity), but generally speaking, the manufacturers seem to add a bit of a safety margin to speed recommendations. I've seen a lot of demonstrations where the speed gets run way out of what would be recommendations. I think the key is light cuts and a good understanding of how catches happen.

That said, as I understand it, cole jaws are not nearly as secure a hold as a chucked hold. It's probably a good idea to be extra mindful of where the "firing line" is in case the piece does come off. And certainly tailstock support will make it much safer. Try to cut towards the head stock instead of perpendicular to it when possible (whether you can do this will depend a lot on what tool you're cutting with). That way any pressure you're putting on the piece is supported by the chuck face (as opposed to the gripping feet). Also, as my mentor has drilled into my head -- face shield. always.

I hate cutting tenons off, but where I have to deal with them, I generally reverse mount with a jam chuck (or just directly against the chuck itself) with an old mousepad to avoid marring the inside finish. Then (as noted above) I nibble the tenon down as small as I feel comfortable, being careful to very slightly inset the bottom of the bowl (so it will sit level when completed). Then I remove what's left with a chisel and finish with sandpaper (off the lathe, of course). I was once told that the best technique is to use the chisel cross grain where possible. Otherwise, when it breaks loose, it may tear out and create a divot you won't be able to sand out.

[John K Jordan]

Steve,

I use a several methods to hold things to do the bottom and often use Cole jaws. I don't know about the mini jaws - I don't think they were available when I got mine.

I consider several things when setting the speed, for example, the size, the weight, and how securely the piece can be gripped. I sometimes turn at higher speed than the recommended, sometimes lower. In general, the 875 speed would not bother me for most bowls. Tecknatool had to make up some maximum speed number to avoid a lawsuit from the guy who smashed his face turning a heavy bowl at 3200 rpm. That 600 rpm speed cannot possibly apply to every situation.

I do bring up the tailstock to support the work. Shape the base as desired leaving only a very small nub in the center. There are several ways to remove this nub when using either Cole jaws or some kind of jam chuck. Note that if the bottom is thin and you need to remove only a very little, the point in a live center may damage the wood to deeply - in that case I use pressure from a special flat center, a small piece of wood, or a cup center with no point.

One way is to remove the bowl from the chuck and whittle away the nub with a sharp chisel or carving tool then sand or scrape (my preferred method) the surface by hand. Some people use a power sander to finish the bottom which is OK if the bottom center is flat or slightly dished (and if you like breathing dust.) Taking the piece off the lathe is highly recommended for a deep bowl or form! (The more it extends from the chuck, the more likely it will come off when the tailstock is removed.)

Another way is how I usually do ths: back off the tailstock and turn away the nub using very light cuts. It is better to make a series of very light cuts toward the headstock instead of cutting across the base. This applies pressure toward the jaws rather than across which is more likely to lever the bowl out of the jaws depending on your skill with the tools. (you don't want even one catch!)

A "secret" I always use to hold things more securely in the Cole jaws (or a jam chuck) is to tape the bowl onto the chuck! I take strips of tape and wrap from behind the jaws, over the curvature of the bowl, and around to the back. (wipe off dust first with naptha or something) I might use 6 or 8 strips, each one crossing the others. For heavy things I like the reinforced strapping tape. Sometimes I use cloth gaffers tape which is very strong but the adhesive releases easier. For most things I use the special 3M green masking tape that will stick to almost anything. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004Z4AY This tape is heavier and stronger than much masking tape.

With the bowl taped to the chuck, it would take a pretty severe mistake to lose it!

Also, look up "donut chuck". This is an old method using a device you can make yourself. There are not many ways to mess up a bowl held in a donut chuck. :-)

JKJ

[Kyle Iwamoto]

I also don't like or use Cole jaws, but, since you have to turn at that speed, be very mindful of the jaws. The nickname "whirling blades of death" is not given to that lightly. At that speed you'll probably not see where they actually are.
Personally I'd go with a jam/friction chuck which are free..... Use the Cole jaws when you get a variable speed lathe. BE CAREFUL! Just my $0.02.

[Michael Mills]

Like some of the others, I have a set of Cole jaws and have never used them (they came free with a chuck).
If I used them I would leave the tailstock in place until the very end and then use the tape method John Jordan described above or as
John Lucas shows in the second picture. When you want to remove the tailstock to finish up, tape the bowl to the Cole jaws with painters tape and take light cuts.
http://nebula.wsimg.com/7bf500f3fd52b978d800c0fc6f0bf5f5?AccessKeyId=8E1EC 0DC707F1FE36FCB&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

I do like many of the others and use a friction chuck leaving just a little nub and then sand/finish the nub off of the lathe.

[John Grace]

There are several ways to remove the 'nub' left by using the tailstock in conjunction with your Cole Jaws. The one obvious one is what people described above...chisel and sanding. You can also use a parting tool with the tailstock still in position if you're comfortable with the method. Two other methods include the use of either a 'donut chuck' (see below) or a tailstock 'press' utilizing wheels on either side of the nub.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-10dXclT_4

[John Grace]

Steve...Here is what I consider to be one of the 'deluxe' methods and versions of jig you can use to solve your problem. See attached...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_v4WjM3mxc&feature=em-subs_digest

[Steve Russell tucker]

Thank all of you so much that is a ton of new info and ideas I will try all of em I hope I was really stressing about the speed thing but I feel way better now I will post some pics of my somewhat bowl /vase shaped thing when I get it all finished thank you all so much ! I appreciate everyone's thoughts and guidance.
Thanks again,
S.

[Aaron Craven]

Another bit of advice I've heard from multiple places regarding speed (though I would say this should only apply with a good strong hold (chucked with a tenon or recess, or between centers, for example): "If the lathe ain't shakin', and you're not shaken, it ain't too fast". :D

[John K Jordan]

The nickname "whirling blades of death" is not given to that lightly. At that speed you'll probably not see where they actually are.


I can see the whirling jaws easily at any speed since they are light-colored aluminum, unlike the nearly invisible corners of a dark piece of wood when turning a winged piece. But the speed shouldn't matter much - I think the hazard is about the same at 600 or 900 rpm. I consider the bigger hazard with high speed to be the piece coming off the chuck with a catch. This holds true with either Cole jaws or a jam chuck, perhaps even more so with a jam chuck since the buttons on the Cole jaws can act like a dovetail with the right bowl rim shape.

I have not yet contacted a whirling blade of anything. (Knock on wood, preferably Bubinga or Ebony.) I suspect someone who gets injured more than once by touching anything spinning on the lathe should probably take up a different hobby, after a period of healing, that is.

JKJ

[Steve Russell tucker]

Mr. Jordan I could not agree more! It does seem like a 1 time only sort of thing :) thank you and everyone again for all the help! I keep seeing folks turning a lot slower than my lathe is capable of and I am way to new at this wallet crushing hobby to know how to correct a lot of things on the lathe so It seem better to ask first. I can tell that I love it for sure, I am already day dreaming about a new lathe but I think I should start smaller and maybe get a bowl gouge first before I jump into mortgaging my house to buy one of those Powermatics :) or American Beauty monsters but a guy can dream can't he! once again thank you so much I love hearing from you all and I am so grateful for all the advice and tips !!
Thanks again a million times,
S.

[John K Jordan]

but I think I should start smaller and maybe get a bowl gouge first before I jump into mortgaging my house to buy one of those Powermatics

I started with the same tube lathe and some cheap tools from Sears. That was great for learning but I soon wanted a bigger lathe with variable speed and got a Jet 1642, about 15 years ago.

Today I have four wood lathes for playing and teaching and a nice Powermatic waiting for me to pick up in a few weeks. I suspect you will be like most of us and get a new lathe and tools before long. If I may make a suggestion, give the old lathe and a couple of tools to a friend with the condition that he pass it to someone else later. That way he can see if turning is for him - that one lathe might give many people a chance to try out woodturning.

A good bowl gouge would be nice. I like Doug Thompson's.

JKJ

[Steve Russell tucker]

Yes sir I will do that for sure ! someone gave it to me after his father passed away I will make sure it lives somewhere else when I get another one . and thanks for the recommendation I was just about to ask about brand names and decent bowl gouges /tools . thanks again sir and have a great day !!
Thank you ,
S.