Looking for Saw Sharpening help in the Detroit Area

[Dale Coons]

Anybody out there reasonably close that hand sharpen saws and wouldn't mind helping somebody get started? I wouldn't mind a reasonable drive--up to a couple hours say. I've got a couple of backsaws I'd like to sharpen--I've tried a couple of times but honestly I could use some pointers. I think I've got all the necessaries--jointer, files, vise, and set.

Dale

[Phil Mueller]

I'm in the same boat and area. Would love to join in as well.

[Ron Bontz]

What type of file guides are you guys using? If none, I would recommend either the Lee Valley File guide ($ 40.00 ) or one from BlackBurns tools ( $100.00+ ) . Aside from that I only know of one person that may be able to help you via Emails. I will check with him to see how busy he is. Also, some times if you post good pics of your progress, others can spot your problems as well. Best wishes.
I almost forgot. How far is Mike Seismen from you?

[Glen Canaday]

Siemsen is in Minnesota, not Michigan.

Hopefully he'll have a saw class in April or so. I asked him last Saturday and said please :) He scoffed but I think I made a dent.

It is a 12 hour drive from you guys. It might be worth the trip. I'm originally from Detroit and I've made the trip several times.

[Ron Bontz]

Contacted my friend about helping out. Unfortunately he has some other pressing personal issues that require his full time attention. So he won't be doing emails and such. If you were closer I would invite you to stop by, but the land of Detroit is a bit of a drive from St. Louis. Best of luck to you.

[Phil Mueller]

Thanks all. I have the LV guide arriving any day, and I'm on Isaac's list for a rakemaker II(since October-he must be slammed with work). I've done one rip saw to date and it cuts pretty well. It's the crosscut saws that give me a bit of anxiety.

When the LV guide shows up, I'm going to have a go at one of the garage sale saws. What the heck, right? I'll post some photos on a new post and will welcome your input. Thanks!

[Mike Allen1010]

In person coaching for saw sharpening is more helpful than for other hand tool skills; tolerances and worked surfaces are very small, as a result feel is often more important than what you can see and there is the multiplane geometry, unlike most other edge tools.

Sorry I can't help you mid west guys, but anyone in driving distance of north san Diego county (Carlsbad) is welcome at my .
Best, Mike

[Bill Zickel]

Hi Dale,
I would look for a good used Foley filing machine. This machine is easy to learn on, and is what most shops use to sharpen hand saws.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siCGlyNBSvU

Bill

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Disclaimer:

I have not tried sharpening a backsaw and I lack experience.

Can you describe the problems that you have and precisely what are you doing. So, are you starting with a saw in really bad shape, or something that just needs to be touched up.

What sources have you used to learn?

Lee valley sells this to help you align the file at the correct angle

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43086&p=70465

I like Ron Herman's approach. he uses a piece of wood stuck to the end of a file to set the angles

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/chris-schwarz-blog/ron-herman-%E2%80%98sharpen-your-handsaws%E2%80%99

Off hand, I do not know how this one (http://www.shopwoodworking.com/sharpen-your-handsaws-w5169?r=pwcsbf080111W5169) compares to the tune up and more video by Ron Herman (http://www.amazon.com/Hand-Saws-Tune-up-Set-up-More/dp/1440323585/ref=oosr)

You have probably already watched this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA5DixEaaUo

I think that it was suggested to me that perhaps I start with a larger hand saw.

Finally, contact your Sterling Heights woodcraft and ask if their hand-tool tuneup class includes saws. They offer a class TODAY, Friday, the 19th and again in March.

[Daniel Rode]

I bought a set of saw files, made a saw vice and watched as many videos on saw sharpening as I could find. I have 4-5 saws that need to be sharpened but I haven't tried yet. Based on my complete lack of experience, I like Ron Herman's wooden guide. I think the LV guide is probably really nice but I like free :) I didn't buy a jointer. Perhaps I'm wrong but it seemed like I could just as easily use a bare file. Again, I'm cheap...

I'd like to start on a coarse rip saw as that should be the easiest but what I need is a 10-11 point crosscut . I use the table saw for most ripping, so the ripers I have will stay sharp a long time.

I took all of next week off, so I'm going to try to dedicate a day to saw sharpening.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Without anyone to show you I agree it is difficult to get going.

I have done some rip saws that cut very nicely. I mangled the first backsaw I tackled. I have since gotten better. If somebody wanted some advice from a not particularly skilled self-taught saw filer, it would be (if you can't get in a class or find somebody to show you), to start with a larger saw (5-6 TPI or something like that), and start with a rip profile rather than a crosscut profile. Then do a larger saw in a crosscut profile (the size of the teeth makes it easier to see what where you are on the toothline), and not to launch right off into a backsaw. For sure don't start on some family heirloom.

Focus on the toothline and profile first, and don't worry too much about adjusting the set at first. Using a dark marker or something to mark the teeth, so you can more easily identify what has been filed and what has not is very helpful, as is really good light.

Matt Cianci has a site where he posted some notes on filing a saw, and Lie Nielsen has some very good videos for free on YouTube.

[Dale Coons]

I wouldn't mind a road trip for a class after it warms up a bit. I don't have a guide, but I can get one. I do have ron herman's video. The one saw I've tried to sharpen still doesn't cut well. I don't think the teeth are really sharp still, and I think the set is messed up-it binds and saws to the left. I sent some panel saws out to be sharpened, and they didn't come back cutting great--the teeth are somewhat irregular and some odd shaped--looks to me like they were sharpened on a machine with the wrong TPI setup. I have some of my Grandad's saws that still cut well and I don't want them to come back with a poor sharpening job, so want to learn this.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

made a saw vice

Interested in seeing your saw vice when you have time to post it.



I like Ron Herman's wooden guide. I think the LV guide is probably really nice but I like free

No issues there. You can even go free hand if you want, it should not matter. The guides help you stay true to the angles and such.



I didn't buy a jointer. Perhaps I'm wrong but it seemed like I could just as easily use a bare file. Again, I'm cheap...

Nothing wrong with that. Only advantages to the "jointer" is that it might make it easier to file square (not sure that matters) and, it might protect your hand from banging against the blade and cutting yourself.



I'd like to start on a coarse rip saw as that should be the easiest but what I need is a 10-11 point crosscut

A good place to start I think.



I wouldn't mind a road trip for a class after it warms up a bit. I don't have a guide, but I can get one. I do have ron herman's video.

Make one like Ron does. All it does it help you work at the correct angle.


The one saw I've tried to sharpen still doesn't cut well. I don't think the teeth are really sharp still, and I think the set is messed up-it binds and saws to the left.

I assume that you have NOT messed with the set, which means that the set was poor when you started. have you tried compressing the teeth in a vice? Never seen it done on a larger saw.

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/get-a-consistent-set-on-your-saw-with-paper

Did you try stoning the edge that binds? (left side I assume).

When you inspect the saw,



Do the tips look to be the same height in a straight line?
Do the angles look like they are reasonably correct?
I assume that you alternated the teeth while cutting those angles.
Are the top of the teeth pointy?
Doe the set appear to be uniform? I assume that it is not, so you may want to stone both sides, use the vise trick, or similar.


Idle uninformed opinion: At the end of the day, all that can be perfect, and the saw geometry could be bad.


I sent some panel saws out to be sharpened, and they didn't come back cutting great--the teeth are somewhat irregular and some odd shaped--looks to me like they were sharpened on a machine with the wrong TPI setup. I have some of my Grandad's saws that still cut well and I don't want them to come back with a poor sharpening job, so want to learn this.

I am with you. I have done little sharpening, but, it made a huge improvement. I purchased some saws just to practice sharpening, just have not got around to it. The sharpening that I did was out of necessity. I have not been brave enough to sharpen my nice back saws yet. I will start on a cheaper back saw that I obtained with a cheap miter set.

[Tom M King]

332102332101I lay a board behind the saw with the fleam angle lines drawn on it. You can see it without having to concentrate on it, and if the file is the least bit different, it stands out easily. Even one scrap cut on the miter saw is a decent reference.

I set a worklight that shines light off the teeth I need to file back at me. This LED light from Lowes is the best I've ever used for this. I don't know how the pictures got balled up with one as an attached thumbnail, but anyway, you can probably figure it out. The one picture of dull teeth is just to show how the light looks on the teeth. It gets set to the other end to file the other side of the saw.

[Tom M King]

I learned how to file a chainsaw with one hand, using the little non-toothed end to set the file in the gullet, and get a little running start. It carried over to sharpening a hand saw. Years later, I read on the internet how to do it, thought I'd been doing it wrong all those years, and made some little blocks of wood to put on the end of the file. It always felt awkward to me. The arm blocked the light, and when the blocks of wood were used up, I went back to doing it like I learned with one hand. I like the smooth end of the file as a place to start the stroke, and anything on that end does away with the smooth part.

I try to joint just enough to work with one full stroke of the file. Once the rake angle is established, usually by feel of the file in a gullet if you aren't going to change it, a finger goes on top of the handle, and that's all you need.

Practice filing shavings onto a clean white sheet of paper. edited to add: Tape the paper up close behind the saw. You will find that you can throw the same amount of shavings with either a short, hard stroke, or a long, light, smooth stroke. I don't like short and hard. You see people who take a one inch stroke complain about files not lasting long. Their life is limited anyway, but I usually buy full length files, and like to get my money's worth.

Do what you need to, to be able to see what's happening. Joint just a little bit, and take half of the flat from each side. Being able to judge what takes what amount of the flat only comes with practice.

It's one of those things that's easy once you know how, and most of the know how is feel after you get the setup.

[Tom M King]

That's a Sandvik 288 8 pt. that I keep for fairly rough carpentry work. If you are wondering how it got so dull, it was being used to cut ridge shingles on top of a copper "safety". The teeth had to rub some on the copper. The saw is a bit rusty because it gets left out sometimes, but it doesn't matter for what I use it for. There are at least a dozen kept better, still in the original sleeves in the good saw box.