Butfering 43" Widebelt pictures

[Gregory Stahl]

This post is a follow up to comments I made in another wide belt thread.

Here are some pictures of my Butfering 43" wide belt sander to give an idea of the build quality. I chose the Butfering as it offered more options and control than other sanders in its price range. I was primarily considering the SCMI Sandya S300 as an alternate. There is one of these on eBay if you want to look at some pictures of the SCMI machine, as well as video on youtube.

The price of the Butfering was below the SCMI price, and included delivery and on-site set-up and training.

Looking over the SCMI info, I just noticed the Butfering has variable belt speed of 2.5 - 13 m/min; whereas, the SCMI offered on ebay and on the youtube videos has only two speeds. The Butfering uses a Homag VFD to accomplish this, and a picture is included.

Also, the Butfering has a touch screen to operate the sander, and utilizes a PLC to operate the machine. This allows configuration programs that can be brought up quickly.

I want to note the excellent manuals included with this machine. They are not the low quality manuals you get with other brands of european equipment. This one is good, but my Altendorf manual is better (it is in color). Stiles includes a digital copy of the manual with the machines.

I just wanted to share this machine as I believe it is very aggressively priced for a machine of this size and capability.

There is a lot of steel on this sander. Mine weighs around 3100-lbs, maybe a little more.

Greg


331801
331802 Siemens European made main motor.
331803 right side of sanding head and pneumatics. Mine has a steel drum, it is about 6.5" in diameter.
331804 closer picture of sander drum.
331805 pneumatics for oscillation, air cushion for platen and belt tension.
331806 very thick steel in this machine.
331807 jack screws and steel frame on right side of machine.

continued on next post.

[Gregory Stahl]

331808 large sanding head made out of thick steel.
331809 jack screws and main pneumatics on left side of machine.
331810 close up--these are mounted in heavier steel than many machines.
331811 Homag VFD, or I assume it is at-least.
331812 High quality PLC. parts can be bought individually on line from many sources.
331813 transformers, motor contactors and other components.
331814 manual
331815 page example - detailed pictures throughout.

[David Kumm]

Greg, any pictures of the platen? Dave

[Gregory Stahl]

I didn't grab any tonight. I can get one tomorrow.

[J.R. Rutter]

Looks like a nice machine. Thanks for sharing the detail pics.

[Bruce Page]

I would like to see an overall picture. It looks like a beautiful machine.

[Gregory Stahl]

Here is an overall picture of the front. Sorry my shop is so filthy.

331888

[Gregory Stahl]

Here are some pics of the platen. The platen is 3 1/8" wide. The last picture is upside down looking into the sander where the platen goes. The picture keeps getting flipped whenever I upload it--I gave up. It is the air cushion the platen pushes against. We are looking up at it.


331898
331899
331900
331901

[Mike Heidrick]

That is sweet!!!

I'll take any of your toss away scmi sandya models though if you are too good for them LOL!!

[peter gagliardi]

Looks like a solid machine for sure. Some day, when i grow up i keep telling myself.

[Gregory Stahl]

This is the touch screen to control the sander. This is a single head sander. The sanding head has a button under it with a "o" on it. This is the power button to turn the main sanding motor on. The upside down "t" below it is for the platen. Push the button and it turns to a "o" for drum only. The platen raises out of the way.

The numbers on the left are for the sanding thickness. It is currently set at 18.6 mm. The space below is what it is programmed to be set at. I have a blank program loaded, so it is 0.0. Also, this is the reason for the !!!!!!!! at the top. The two buttons below are to increase and decrease the thickness without typing a number.

The caliper at the top is to use the auto height sensor on the feed table. I don't use this feature, I prefer to keep a caliper nearby.

The box with the p is the grit of sand paper loaded in the sander.

To the bottom right, there is a power button for the feed belt, and to the right is where you enter the speed in m/min.

I don't have the air compressor on, so the "check pressure" alarm is on at the bottom.

331894

[Gregory Stahl]

That is sweet!!!

I'll take any of your toss away scmi sandya models though if you are too good for them LOL!!

Sorry--sold my SCMI to another cabinet shop!

[Martin Wasner]

Cool! A new widebelt is a thing of joy. I got my new one a bit over a year ago and I figure it saved me at least $3k in on machine time labor over my old widebelt which was about a four times slower of a process. Nevermind the labor savings in finish sanding time. The scratch is infinitely better over my old sander as well.

Congrats, maintain it and don't abuse it. The guys next door to me have a Butfering widebelt, they have had problems with theirs, but I think it's ask self inflicted. There's tunes when my shop has been quiet and I can hear theirs running and I just cringe listening to them hog material hard.

[David Kumm]

I can't access the platen pics but the machine sure looks to have a lot of features for a Euro machine at that price point. Well done. Dave

[Gregory Stahl]

Cool! A new widebelt is a thing of joy. I got my new one a bit over a year ago and I figure it saved me at least $3k in on machine time labor over my old widebelt which was about a four times slower of a process. Nevermind the labor savings in finish sanding time. The scratch is infinitely better over my old sander as well.

Congrats, maintain it and don't abuse it. The guys next door to me have a Butfering widebelt, they have had problems with theirs, but I think it's ask self inflicted. There's tunes when my shop has been quiet and I can hear theirs running and I just cringe listening to them hog material hard.

Hi Martin,

I have had this wide belt for about 19-months so far, not so much as a hiccup. You are right on about the scratch pattern. I rarely use the platen with this machine--the quality is so high right off the drum!

What machine did you buy?

Greg

[Gregory Stahl]

I can't access the platen pics but the machine sure looks to have a lot of features for a Euro machine at that price point. Well done. Dave

I uploaded the pics again--something went goofy somewhere!

[Martin Wasner]

Hi Martin,

I have had this wide belt for about 19-months so far, not so much as a hiccup. You are right on about the scratch pattern. I rarely use the platen with this machine--the quality is so high right off the drum!

What machine did you buy?

Greg


Like I said, I think their problems are self inflicted. It seems to be a solid machine. That setup screen is pretty awesome. I'm kinda jealous about that.

I've got a Apex dual head 43" machine. Apex is, as best I can tell, the exact same thing as a Timesavers sander, just different paint. (The guys that run Apex are all ex Timesavers employees too) I'm seriously looking at dumpong mine in a couple of years and getting a three head with the longer belts. Mine uses a 75" belt, when you jump up to the 103" belts the lifespan goes up exponentially.

[David Kumm]

How does the flexible platen work? With air pressure to hold it can you use a fine grit on veneer without going through on the edges? My platens are all solid with thick fairly soft graphite but they won't deal with veneer. I think EMC in Italy also uses the flexible platen. Dave

[James Biddle]

It's interesting that they use a PLC to control the motions and interface but still use pneumatics for the oscillation. I've been looking at replacing my 25" Sandya with a wider Sandya but will have to give that a closer look. Did you buy it through Stiles?

[Gregory Stahl]

How does the flexible platen work? With air pressure to hold it can you use a fine grit on veneer without going through on the edges? My platens are all solid with thick fairly soft graphite but they won't deal with veneer. I think EMC in Italy also uses the flexible platen. Dave


You got me thinking on this! I had not run 180 grit on this machine until today. I had no problem sanding plywood with the platen. I took three passes off to test, only the last pass barely sanded through the veneer on one corner! Each pass i reduced thickness 1/10th of a mm.

I ran a ply board through with 120 and the platen. No problem! The second pass went through the front corners.

This is a board after 3/180 passes. The veneer is very thin. The glue color is starting to show through, but the veneer is solid all the way across--including edges and corners.

331965

[Gregory Stahl]

It's interesting that they use a PLC to control the motions and interface but still use pneumatics for the oscillation. I've been looking at replacing my 25" Sandya with a wider Sandya but will have to give that a closer look. Did you buy it through Stiles?
Yes. I called their main number and an hour or so later the local sales rep called me back.

[James Biddle]

Couple of questions:
How hard is it to change the belts (on mine sometimes they slide right off and on, sometimes you fight them for 5 minutes)?
Is the head lock (removed to install the belts) also used to set the parallelism of the head to the drive belt (it does on mine and sometimes I don't install it correctly and I sand a wedge)?
What brand/type of belts are you using?
Does it auto adjust when you use different grits?

[David Kumm]

Nice Greg. Is yours the 100 series? I looked at the site and see that the segmented platen and antidubbing features are upgrades but it looks like you can almost get to veneer or laquer sanding with the spring steel platen. Also nice to not have to pull the platen out when calibration sanding. The 200 series looks more like the Kundig where the head moves. Dave

[Gregory Stahl]

Nice Greg. Is yours the 100 series? I looked at the site and see that the segmented platen and antidubbing features are upgrades but it looks like you can almost get to veneer or laquer sanding with the spring steel platen. Also nice to not have to pull the platen out when calibration sanding. The 200 series looks more like the Kundig where the head moves. Dave

Yes, specifically the 114C. I would have loved to buy a 200 series but the price was just too high for my needs. The veneer and laquer sanding option( eps option) was about $10k or more--too expensive for me. Mine is the ACP option, or Air Cushion Pad.

-Greg

[Gregory Stahl]

Couple of questions:
How hard is it to change the belts (on mine sometimes they slide right off and on, sometimes you fight them for 5 minutes)?
Is the head lock (removed to install the belts) also used to set the parallelism of the head to the drive belt (it does on mine and sometimes I don't install it correctly and I sand a wedge)?
What brand/type of belts are you using?
Does it auto adjust when you use different grits?

Not hard at all. If it is too hard I just have to remind myself to lower the table--probably catching on the rubber belt.

No, the headlock is just removed and replaced, no settings on it at all.

There are two settings for the belt grit. There is one on the head itself, which is a heavy dial that is turned, and the programmed setting on the touch screen.

I am using 3M primarily and Klingspore. Stiles was good to me. A couple days before I received the sander several large boxes unexpectedely showed up. About 15 belts free! There were two included with the sander as well.

Greg

[peter gagliardi]

Greg, did you mention price? Maybe i missed it, but i would be interested to know if you dont mind sharing a range? By PM if you don't want it public.
I am torn between a new sander, or a new Martin shaper with tenon table, but i see one or the other soon.
Thanks.

[Joe Calhoon]

Greg,
I would be interested in ballpark price also, I can see a single head machine in my future. My Kuendig 3 head is over kill for our scaled back production. As long as my power is cheap I will keep it but it was a killer when they had us on a demand meter.
What belts are you using? Paper or cloth?
The Kuendig has a air platen. We are able to do light sanding on veneered panels as long as they are flat. No substitute for a veneer sander though. Any high dollar veneer we hand sand.

[David Kumm]

There is nice looking Butfering veneer sander at 360 degree machinery. Dave

[J.R. Rutter]

I've never tried my air platen on veneer. I don't generally use it at all, actually. Scratch pattern off of the drum is shorter and easier to ROS out.

[Gregory Stahl]

I wasn't going to share price info as it may vary regionally, and I bought the machine 19-months ago, but here you go.

$21980 for the machine. Stiles threw in free installation and I paid only a few hundred for freight on two machines--stiles picked up the rest. My two machines were the entire truckload and it was on an air cushion ride trailer or something like that. I had the whole day to unload the truck--it was nice!


Greg

[Gregory Stahl]

Looking through more quotes and info on this sander--this sander with the EPS platen head for veneer/lacquer sanding was $29900.

I actually got a better deal on the sander than I previously posted--found Stiles paid all the shipping and gave me a little better price since I bought an Altendorf F45 at the same time.

[Mike Waddell]

Greg,

Thanks for taking all the pics and posting them. I've called my local rep regarding the Stiles-represented machines and am looking into them. I'm glad you mentioned the Butfering.

If you are OK doing so, do you mind private messaging me here and letting me know how much you paid for it? Ball park is fine; local reps are saying they are MUCH more expensive than the SCM machines and I know that wasn't your experience so any guidance would be appreciate.

Thanks,

Mike

[Mike Waddell]

Oops! I see you included pricing in another post. Thanks!

[Martin Wasner]

Wow, that's a good deal for the amount of options that are on there.

Did it come with a UL certification too?

[Gregory Stahl]

Just for reference, at the same time I received quotes of $17,100 for the SCMI Sandya 1 and $23,800 for the SCMI Sandya 300. Neither included shipping.

The Sandya 300 has a 4.75" drum, rubber coated vs the 6"+ steel drum on my Butfering. The SCMI platen is 2" vs 3"+ on the Butfering, and two feed speeds vs the 2.5 - 13 m/min variable speed on the Butfering.

The SCMI does have more HP, 30HP vs 20HP for the Butfering. I have no trouble with the 20HP motor though. Once, I forgot to measure the thickness and keyed in what I thought it was. I took off a lot of material, maybe 1/4-inch on a hard maple panel, and burned the paper up. Machine didn't slow one bit. Smoke pouring out all over from the paper burning until I hit the e-stop!!! I learned to pay better attention that day!

[peter gagliardi]

Thats one of the pluses of a steel drum, much harder to damage than a rubber one. Thanks for the info.