New Vermec Sphere Cutting Jig

[Tim Boger]

As the pics show,331604331606 I did indeed buy this very cool Sphere Turning Jig from the good folks at Vermec Engineering, the price was very reasonable thanks to a favorable exchange rate, and this tool is built like a tank. Really impressed.

My question, I feel like I have just recently watched a video on making a hollow sphere with the wall thickness @ 1/8 in. The method shown (here is where the memory gets fuzzy) was to cut the completed sphere in 1/2 while still on the lathe so you end up with two exact pieces. These pieces were then remounted with a chuck via a small tenon left on the ends of both halves, then the Vermec Jig was used to cut the center out so that a bowl shape at 1/8th thickness remains. Once both sides are hollowed they are glued back together and prepared for piercing.

Anyone have advice and hopefully a link to a video showing this process?

As a side note, my hollowing skills with a small hollowing tool leave much to be desired. Improving my hollowing skills will come in time, now I'm on a mission to make this process that I've asked about here happen.

Thanks,
Tim

[David Delo]

Nice rig and looks like a great looking first sphere. I recently fell into this sub-vortex and think it's a cool diversion from the regular bowl routine. Here's a link to a video I've watched a few times from Brian Mills. Not a Vermec but does give a decent overview on one way to make such pieces. http://www.you2repeat.com/watch/?v=2uh5CcsAIQg

[John K Jordan]

Tim, I watched one recently. I THINK that's where I heard you could make a slightly elongated sphere with a little flat in the middle that would be removed with the parting tool to leave a perfect hollow sphere. I'll try to find the resource again.

But a question, did you buy directly from Vermec or did you go through the US distributor? Do you have a contact name, email address, web site, or phone number? I went to order one then found they are out of stock right now. This turned out to be great since I've just found a larger lathe and the would need the largest model!

JKJ

[Tim Boger]

Thanks Dave, great video. Very informative. Thanks Tim
Nice rig and looks like a great looking first sphere. I recently fell into this sub-vortex and think it's a cool diversion from the regular bowl routine. Here's a link to a video I've watched a few times from Brian Mills. Not a Vermec but does give a decent overview on one way to make such pieces. http://www.you2repeat.com/watch/?v=2uh5CcsAIQg

[Tim Boger]

Please do share any resources you come across. Here you go, their terrific folks to work with.

Pls tell Nadine I gave you their contact info.

Nadine
Accounts Manager
In Office: Monday, Tuesday,Thursday & Friday

Vermec
39 Dalton St
Kippa-Ring QLD 4021
Australia
PH: 07 3284 3733
FAX: 07 3284 2733
www.vermec.com (http://www.vermec.com/)

[Geoff Whaling]

As the pics show,331604331606 I did indeed buy this very cool Sphere Turning Jig from the good folks at Vermec Engineering, the price was very reasonable thanks to a favorable exchange rate, and this tool is built like a tank. Really impressed.

My question, I feel like I have just recently watched a video on making a hollow sphere with the wall thickness @ 1/8 in. The method shown (here is where the memory gets fuzzy) was to cut the completed sphere in 1/2 while still on the lathe so you end up with two exact pieces. These pieces were then remounted with a chuck via a small tenon left on the ends of both halves, then the Vermec Jig was used to cut the center out so that a bowl shape at 1/8th thickness remains. Once both sides are hollowed they are glued back together and prepared for piercing.

Anyone have advice and hopefully a link to a video showing this process?

As a side note, my hollowing skills with a small hollowing tool leave much to be desired. Improving my hollowing skills will come in time, now I'm on a mission to make this process that I've asked about here happen.

Thanks,
Tim

Tim the process I use is the other way round. You probably saw Guilio Marcolongo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTsNwxD0uc

Hollow a hemisphere using the Vermec Sphere Jig (VSJ).



Start with a cylinder between centers and cut a tenon on both ends. The length of the cylinder will have to make an allowance for clearance behind the sphere on at least one end.
Part in half, then mount one end in a chuck.
Set up the VSJ & make sure the arm with the carbide cutter is aligned on the center line of the swing arm so that the vertical axis of the pivot mount passes through the CL of the cutter arm. This is most important for the hollowing, as the cutter will not trace a circular arc centered on the CL of the blank if you do not. You can fiddle (fudge) a little but the actual cutting section of the carbide cutter must be on CL.
Now set the equator aligning pin to align with the end of the blank, clamp the base & start hollowing, but remember to make an allowance for a joining tenon.
Repeat for the other half.
Join both halves, glue them if you wish, and then align the VSJ's equator pin to the equator of the joined halves - again remember to allow for how you joined the two halves when you align the VSJ. You may have to offset slightly depending upon how you made allowance for the mortice / tenon.
Set the VSJ so that the cutter arm is slightly rotated to the LHS of CL of the swing arm - this creates a little extra room between the sphere and the "neck" between the sphere & chuck. Form the outside of the sphere. It doesn't make that much difference to the outside profile if the offset is small.
If the tenon is not glued make sure you only take light cuts.
When satisfied part off the neck then mount the near complete sphere between cup centers to remove the remains of the neck then sand & finish.


If you make a small mistake with the offset the hollow sphere will naturally rest with the thicker wall thickness down :D.

[John K Jordan]

If you make a small mistake with the offset the hollow sphere will naturally rest with the thicker wall thickness down

Sounds like something to do on purpose to make a wobbly sphere. I don't have a sphere jig but this gives me some ideas. It would be fun to cut a slot in one and make a wooden coin bank, smash to open. I wonder if this would be a good way to do a threaded sphere box?

Geoff, On first reading I like the sound of your technique. One question, in step 8, "If the tenon is not glued..." do you mean if the sphere halves are not glued? Also, I assume step 2 would include carefully facing the possibly rough parting cut to get a clean seam when joined.

JKJ

[Tim Boger]

Hey Geoff,

Thanks for taking the time to lay it out for me, I really appreciate the help.

My hands on time is all of an hour right now so some of your explanation will need to soak in before I'll really understand. I have watched to video you linked to, if there was one showing the process to hollow the interior it would be terrific ... I seem to learn quicker with visual aids.

Sure do thank you all for the help thus far!!

Tim



Tim the process I use is the other way round. You probably saw Guilio Marcolongo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoTsNwxD0uc

Hollow a hemisphere using the Vermec Sphere Jig (VSJ).



Start with a cylinder between centers and cut a tenon on both ends. The length of the cylinder will have to make an allowance for clearance behind the sphere on at least one end.
Part in half, then mount one end in a chuck.
Set up the VSJ & make sure the arm with the carbide cutter is aligned on the center line of the swing arm so that the vertical axis of the pivot mount passes through the CL of the cutter arm. This is most important for the hollowing, as the cutter will not trace a circular arc centered on the CL of the blank if you do not. You can fiddle (fudge) a little but the actual cutting section of the carbide cutter must be on CL.
Now set the equator aligning pin to align with the end of the blank, clamp the base & start hollowing, but remember to make an allowance for a joining tenon.
Repeat for the other half.
Join both halves, glue them if you wish, and then align the VSJ's equator pin to the equator of the joined halves - again remember to allow for how you joined the two halves when you align the VSJ. You may have to offset slightly depending upon how you made allowance for the mortice / tenon.
Set the VSJ so that the cutter arm is slightly rotated to the LHS of CL of the swing arm - this creates a little extra room between the sphere and the "neck" between the sphere & chuck. Form the outside of the sphere. It doesn't make that much difference to the outside profile if the offset is small.
If the tenon is not glued make sure you only take light cuts.
When satisfied part off the neck then mount the near complete sphere between cup centers to remove the remains of the neck then sand & finish.


If you make a small mistake with the offset the hollow sphere will naturally rest with the thicker wall thickness down :D.

[Geoff Whaling]

Sounds like something to do on purpose to make a wobbly sphere.

One question, in step 8, "If the tenon is not glued..." do you mean if the sphere halves are not glued? Also, I assume step 2 would include carefully facing the possibly rough parting cut to get a clean seam when joined. JKJ

John, Check out Siegfried Schreiber's work - Sensual Sculptures - http://www.siegfriedschreiber.de/en/works/sensual_sculptures/index.html

Yes - in Step 8 I am talking about the mortice/tenon joint between the two hemispheres. If you are fancy you could use a hand chased threaded joint :D




Hey Geoff,

Thanks for taking the time to lay it out for me, I really appreciate the help.

My hands on time is all of an hour right now so some of your explanation will need to soak in before I'll really understand. I have watched to video you linked to, if there was one showing the process to hollow the interior it would be terrific ... I seem to learn quicker with visual aids.

Sure do thank you all for the help thus far!!

Tim

Tim, Its hard to condense all the little tricks into a few words. :) Perhaps best I take a photo of the arm in the hollowing position and post it. I'm out of action as far as using the lathe at the moment as I have a nasty bout of vertigo it is a major PIA. So it will only be the setup.

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In Step 3 using the photo from Vermec's site the cutter arm needs to be rotated a few degrees clockwise so its in the position parallel to the two white lines I have added to the image.

My Vermec Sphere Jig (VSJ) is the older version without the equator pin (the aligning pin through the pivot), so I have a few extra steps to align the jig. I know Guilio Marcolongo has done quite a few demos for Vermec but I don't know if there are any video's of him or any other turner hollowing with the VSJ.

[Alan Dick]

Tim,

I was wondering how the product was shipped to you from Australia (e.g., carrier, length of time, import duties etc)?

Thanks,

Alan

[Tim Boger]

Hey Alan,

The shipper was UPS, 3-4 days (very impressive) ... apparently all charges were included in the sales price.

Great tool, service and price!!

Tim
Tim,

I was wondering how the product was shipped to you from Australia (e.g., carrier, length of time, import duties etc)?

Thanks,

Alan

[John K Jordan]

Pls tell Nadine I gave you their contact info.

Thanks, I sent an email and she responded - said she was pleased you referred me.

JKJ

[Tim Boger]

I would expect you'll be as pleased as I with their products, prices and communication.

If you have info about using the Sphere Jig for hollowing the spheres I'd appreciate it if you would share.

Thanks,
Tim
Thanks, I sent an email and she responded - said she was pleased you referred me.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

I would expect you'll be as pleased as I with their products, prices and communication.

If you have info about using the Sphere Jig for hollowing the spheres I'd appreciate it if you would share.

Thanks,
Tim

I haven't yet found what I read or viewed a few days ago. That method had the basically the same steps but turned the outside first, then divided and hollowed. I do think the method Geoff outlined may be a little better since after gluing the halves back together I think the tailstock end of the sphere could be turned completely by the jig. The other method would have to leave the tenon so the second half could be held for hollowing. It could still probably be turned away but would require setting up the jig again.

JKJ

[Tim Boger]

I have asked the folks at Vermec if they could generate some instructions on the hollowing process, sounds like something may be in the works.

Tim





I haven't yet found what I read or viewed a few days ago. That method had the basically the same steps but turned the outside first, then divided and hollowed. I do think the method Geoff outlined may be a little better since after gluing the halves back together I think the tailstock end of the sphere could be turned completely by the jig. The other method would have to leave the tenon so the second half could be held for hollowing. It could still probably be turned away but would require setting up the jig again.

JKJ

[Stephen Walker]

Ok, after checking out their site, and either overlooking it, or it just isn't there......what is the max size of spheres that can be turned?

Never mind.... i found it. 280 mm, or 11". for the large size.

[Andy Kirk]

Hey Stephen, where did you find the sphere size information on the Vermec? Thanks

[John K Jordan]

Hey Stephen, where did you find the sphere size information on the Vermec? Thanks

If I may butt in, try this: http://www.vermec.com/vermec-sphere-turning-jig.html

I must say the Vermec has proved to be a very well-made jig. I loaned mine to a friend who has experience with several brands of sphere jigs and his comment was this was the Cadillac. Another turner did tell me he thought Carter had an improved design now but I don't know the details. The most useful comparative evaluation, of course, would come from someone with experience with both.

JKJ

[Marvin Hasenak]

I have a homemade system. It started out as a fluting jig for spindles on the lathe. But has morphed into a handful of tools. It started with seeing an Anthony Bailey and Mark Baker router jig. I modified it to cut spheres, I can use the lathe index system and cut flutes in those spheres. The cutting is all done with a trim router.

[Len Mullin]

Tim, Brenden Stemp has a good video out on how to do what your inquiring about, check him out on You-tube or his home site, youturn.tv. I think you'll find the video on each site, I found it to be quite interesting.
Len

[Robert Hayward]

Hey Stephen, where did you find the sphere size information on the Vermec? Thanks

I realize this is an old thread above this question, but I have been wanting one of these Vermec sphere jigs for a long time and the thread got my attention. I emailed Nadine and she asked Enzo. Response was about 300mm on a 3520b.

I also looked closely at the Carter jig which claims to turn 1" to 14" on 10" to 25" lathes. Did not email or call direct for the Carter but am guessing the largest diameter would be close to the same as the Vermec on the same lathe. The Vermec looked more solid to my eye so I ordered one. Used PayPal and paid the 5% surcharge. With shipping of AU$135.00, the jig and the surcharge the cost was a couple of dollars more than the cost of the Carter without shipping, after conversion to USD.

I am now waiting to hear from Nadine with a tracking number. How long did others wait for the product to be shipped after payment ?

[John K Jordan]

...The Vermec looked more solid to my eye so I ordered one. Used PayPal and paid the 5% surcharge. With shipping of AU$135.00, the jig and the surcharge the cost was a couple of dollars more than the cost of the Carter without shipping, after conversion to USD. I am now waiting to hear from Nadine with a tracking number. How long did others wait for the product to be shipped after payment ?

Robert,

Looking back at my records I had to wait 4-5 business days, if I remember it was while the guy finished making mine. When ready it shipped on a Thursday and was delivered the following Monday. I could hardly believe it came that fast.

JKJ

[Robert Hayward]

If UPS does not direct the package wrong mine should be here tomorrow. I paid on November 30th and it shipped on December 11th. United States dates not Australia. Shipped Sunday here, or Monday Australia. So Sunday to Wednesday from Brisbane to Tampa. Pretty fast in my opinion. Last week I ordered sandpaper from the Midwest that took UPS longer than that to get it to Tampa.

[Len Mullin]

Tim, Brenden Stemp has a video out on using that sphere jig, and he hollows the sphere using the halfs.
Len

[Dave Mueller]

FYI, I bought my Vermec sphere jig from Christian Brisepierre at Woodworkers Emporium in Las Vegas. www.woodworkersemporium.com/vermec-sphere-jig/ Right now it shows "out of stock" but he normally has them available. Give him a call at 702-871-0722.

[John K Jordan]

... Woodworkers Emporium in Las Vegas.... Right now it shows "out of stock" but he normally has them available....

Do you mean he usually has them even if the web site shows he doesn't? I intended to buy mine there but after seeing the out of stock message I decided to order direct when I found out that was possible.

JKJ

[Robert Hayward]

Do you mean he usually has them even if the web site shows he doesn't? I intended to buy mine there but after seeing the out of stock message I decided to order direct when I found out that was possible.

JKJ

The "Out of Stock" message on the Emporium web site is also why I went directly to the source. No, I did not call Emporium to make certain they were out of stock. I had looked at the Emporium site several times over quite a few months and always saw the out of stock message. Vermec was quick to answer my email questions and seemed like a reputable business so I went direct. Although it took longer from payment to shipping than I expected their site does say "Made to Order". I also did not ask how long between payment and shipment.

My jig did arrive today and is sitting in the shipping box beside me. The box is in good shape, that is a good sign after that long of a trip. I have had packages delivered across town, so to speak, that looked like they dragged them behind the truck on the way to my house.

[Bill Blasic]

When I bought mine I think maybe at the Pittsburgh Symposium Alan Trout and I were rooming together. He asked if he could take it out of the box to look at and I said sure. If you have ever seen Alan's Pro-Rail Hollowing System you know what he is capable of manufacturing. After looking the Vermec all over he stated that there is no way he could make something like this for what I paid for it, impossible! Well as far as I'm concerned it is without a doubt the best jig of its kind and is a joy to use.

[Robert Hayward]

I have not even mounted mine on the ways yet, but have looked it over real good. This has got to be the most solid built accessory or add on I have ever held. The parts fit together so well and operate so smoothly I had to keep trying them while sitting in my easy chair in the den. Sadly it will be few weekends before I get a chance to play with the jig on the lathe. Between a very busy period at work and other projects in progress the Vermec jig will sit in its box for a while.

[Tim Pollock]

Hey guys, I was just wondering if any of you guys have had contact with anyone from Vermec lately? I sent an email (used the one on their site) inquiring about getting a sphere jig several days ago but haven't heard anything back from them.

Thanks,
Tim

[Chris Fairbanks]

Hey guys, I was just wondering if any of you guys have had contact with anyone from Vermec lately? I sent an email (used the one on their site) inquiring about getting a sphere jig several days ago but haven't heard anything back from them.

Thanks,
Tim

Tim, They are based in Australia and if you emailed them only a few days ago they might not have seen it since they are about 16 hours ahead of US West coast time and its been the weekend. Nadine is normally fairly responsive so I would give her another day or so. If its urgent check to see what your international calling rate is for your phone as some of the phone companies are outrageous while others are super reasonable. When I ordered my jig late last year I checked and my comcast voip phone was only $0.09 a minute so I just called them to ask the few questions I had and to give her my credit card number. It was well worth the 10 minutes of international calling I spent talking to them. They were super helpful and very quick on shipping the jig.

[Tim Pollock]

Thanks for the response Chris! I sent the email last Thursday night so the time difference very well may be the reason I haven't gotten a response. Maybe I'll hear something from them tomorrow or the next day. I had a quite unusual request so they may not want to talk to me at all. LOL Just kidding.

[Chris Fairbanks]

I had a quite unusual request so they may not want to talk to me at all. LOL Just kidding.

Tim, I think they only make sphere jigs, they cannot make cube jigs :D

[Tim Pollock]

Tim, I think they only make sphere jigs, they cannot make cube jigs :D

LOL But I'm an oddball, I have to be different from everybody else. :)
Actually Nadine just replied to my email. Unfortunately she said their jigs wouldn't work for my application. :( I sent her another message though and inquired about the possibility of purchasing just the top portion and I'd build the base myself.

My lathe is the Delta 46-460 so it only has a 12" swing. I do some cups (kuksa in the bushcraft world which is just the Finnish word for wooden cup) and due to the handle I need more clearance than their jig will allow on my lathe with the tall base they have. I need 3-1/2" to 4" of clearance from center to the top of the base.

[Tim Pollock]

Here's what I mean about the handle.

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[John K Jordan]

Here's what I mean about the handle.

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I don't understand. Do you want the sphere jig to turn the outside? The curve of the shape you show doesn't look even close to a sphere on the side (from the view in the photo). If you want the outside of the bottom 1/3rd or so to be spherical it seems the jig should work fine, assuming you get one with the right height to match your lathe. The upper part would have to be done by hand as usual because of the handle.

It looks easy enough to turn without a jig, though, using the method of marking off 8ths and 16ths (or even wimp out and buy the Berger calipers!: https://sorenberger.co.nz/products/soren-berger-sphere-caliper) In fact, I'm wondering if a perfect spherical bottom would be difficult to blend into a pleasant curve on the sides without looking stilted. (None of the pictures I saw for kuksa/guksi/kasa cups looked spherical, all quite flat on the bottom, I assume to sit on the table.)

Or do you want the entire thing to be a sphere instead of the shape shown? Could you not turn the outside in the other orientation, with the handle on the lathe axis towards the spindle, then jam mount 90-deg and turn the inside? This is the way turners sometimes make coffee scoops, sort of like this video but with the wood that will contain the handle initially towards the headstock and held in a chuck to allow using the sphere jig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgm9gmtHhNo

Or maybe I just don't understand! Maybe more pics, description?

BTW, beautiful work on the cup in the photo. I love the shape. What kind of wood did you use?

JKJ

[Tim Pollock]

I don't understand. Do you want the sphere jig to turn the outside? The curve of the shape you show doesn't look even close to a sphere on the side (from the view in the photo). If you want the outside of the bottom 1/3rd or so to be spherical it seems the jig should work fine, assuming you get one with the right height to match your lathe. The upper part would have to be done by hand as usual because of the handle.

It looks easy enough to turn without a jig, though, using the method of marking off 8ths and 16ths (or even wimp out and buy the Berger calipers!: https://sorenberger.co.nz/products/soren-berger-sphere-caliper) In fact, I'm wondering if a perfect spherical bottom would be difficult to blend into a pleasant curve on the sides without looking stilted. (None of the pictures I saw for kuksa/guksi/kasa cups looked spherical, all quite flat on the bottom, I assume to sit on the table.)

Or do you want the entire thing to be a sphere instead of the shape shown? Could you not turn the outside in the other orientation, with the handle on the lathe axis towards the spindle, then jam mount 90-deg and turn the inside? This is the way turners sometimes make coffee scoops, sort of like this video but with the wood that will contain the handle initially towards the headstock and held in a chuck to allow using the sphere jig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgm9gmtHhNo

Or maybe I just don't understand! Maybe more pics, description?

BTW, beautiful work on the cup in the photo. I love the shape. What kind of wood did you use?

JKJ


My apologies guys, I didn't explain well at all. I had an accident several years ago that left me with a traumatic brain injury and sometimes I struggle to put things to words well. Turning is great therapy though and I absolutely love turning. I'll preface by saying that wanting a sphere jig is more about being a tool-a-holic than actually needing one. :)

I want to be able to turn perfect spheres for other projects besides the kuksas but thought it might be helpful for them as well if I could make one work with my lathe. All the kuksas I've seen have a flat bottom on them so they will sit on their own so I'm not trying to do the bottom sperical. What I've been shooting for lately is a spherical shape starting from about 3/4" down from the rim (that portion is just straight and allows room for the handle) down to the flat of the bottom. The straight portion at the top is also needed to get enough capacity for the kuksa without it being an overly large diameter. I also thought having a sphere jig might help (if that outside portion is spherical) with getting a good even wall thickness when turning the inside. I'll try to get some photos to help explain what I'm shooting for.

Thank you for the kind words John! The kuksa in the photo was made from a maple tree I harvested after a storm took it down.

Many thanks for the responses and the help guys!!!
Tim

[Peter Blair]

IMHO this is the best tutorial. Before I bought my Vermec I was using a home made sphere jig and this tutorial. Care is essential.

http://floridawoodturningsymposium.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Turning-A-Hollow-Sphere.pdf

[Tim Pollock]

Here's a photo that might help explain what I'm shooting for. The jig would only be used for the one area of the kuksa. I've been doing these just fine (though I do struggle to get a shape I'm pleased with) without a sphere jig but thought one would be cool to play with. :) Basically where the bottom of the handle meets the bowl would be the equator. Hope this better explains what I'm shooting for with a sphere jig. The handle is what the problem is, the vermec jig having such a tall base won't allow enough clearance for the handle. I'm hoping they'll sell me just the top portion of one and I can make my own base and a taller post to make it work with my lathe. One of these days I hope to have a 3520 which would certainly solve the problem :D but can't afford one at this time.

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[Tim Pollock]

Still haven't heard back from Nadine or anyone else from Vermec so apparently they aren't willing to sell the jig without the base. :( I believe they have the best sphere jig on the market with the exception that the height of their base really limits the capacity of their jigs, which is a shame. I could have made my own base and riser post to gain more capacity without too much trouble but a similar quill mechanism would be much more difficult.

I'll keep looking.

[John K Jordan]

Still haven't heard back from Nadine or anyone else from Vermec so apparently they aren't willing to sell the jig without the base. :( I believe they have the best sphere jig on the market with the exception that the height of their base really limits the capacity of their jigs, which is a shame. I could have made my own base and riser post to gain more capacity without too much trouble but a similar quill mechanism would be much more difficult.

I'll keep looking.

Maybe just buy the entire jig and use what you want now. Arguably the best spear jig available, It ought to retain it's value for resale some day. In fact, I bought two accessory jigs for the lathe, one had increased in price so much I sold years later for more than I paid for it, and the other (a Baxter threading jig) increased in cost tremendously since I bought it.

Also, you might try the Emporium, the US distributor. Maybe they will sell pieces.

[Tim Pollock]

Maybe just buy the entire jig and use what you want now. Arguably the best spear jig available, It ought to retain it's value for resale some day. In fact, I bought two accessory jigs for the lathe, one had increased in price so much I sold years later for more than I paid for it, and the other (a Baxter threading jig) increased in cost tremendously since I bought it.

Also, you might try the Emporium, the US distributor. Maybe they will sell pieces.


Thanks for the response John.
I've thought about buying the whole jig, it just seems a shame to purchase the bottom section which I wouldn't be able to use. I re-sent the email to Vermec this morning so maybe I'll get a response this time. That's a great Idea contacting Emporium, I'll do that. I contacted Paul Howard about his jig last night, quick response back from him this morning, $268 shipped. I'm not sure if his jig will do concave turning though so I emailed him a couple more questions.