Any business that uses Facebook for their website isn't getting my business [Archive]

Brian Elfert

02-13-2016, 10:07 PM

Jason Roehl

02-14-2016, 6:50 AM

Well, the reality is that it's either difficult, time-consuming or expensive to maintain a website anymore. Small mom-and-pop operations that don't depend on web traffic will always have a hard time justifying that expense of time, resources or learning curve. Facebook is an avenue to a free or inexpensive web presence, where local word-of-mouth can be spread like wildfire.

I'm not saying that's good or bad, just the way it is, IMO.

Justin Ludwig

02-14-2016, 6:53 AM

It sure makes it easy on me to expose new people to my work. I don't have to have a showroom. I have pictures.

I doubt our businesses will go broke because you choose to not create a FB account, though tost of my jobs come word of mouth.

Curt Harms

02-14-2016, 8:41 AM

Create a fictitious name account? I don't have and don't want a Facebook account but if there were benefit to having one I'm sure there are ways without giving up personal info. Some may see that as dishonest but given Facebook's reputation for being less than diligent about protecting personal information I don't think I'd feel too guilty.

Brian Elfert

02-14-2016, 8:45 AM

Well, the reality is that it's either difficult, time-consuming or expensive to maintain a website anymore. Small mom-and-pop operations that don't depend on web traffic will always have a hard time justifying that expense of time, resources or learning curve. Facebook is an avenue to a free or inexpensive web presence, where local word-of-mouth can be spread like wildfire.

There are plenty of small businesses that are very dependent on their web presence for sales that use Facebook. There are a number of consignment shops locally that post all of their inventory on Facebook as it comes in.

Bert Kemp

02-14-2016, 9:54 AM

Brian I agree with you facebook and I hate it when I want to look at something and it say login to facebook, I don't I won't and they won't get my business either.

glenn bradley

02-14-2016, 10:08 AM

I am also in the camp where if I am forced to create an account or use social networking to do business with you, I go elsewhere. It is a choice and there are plenty of choices out there.

Tom M King

02-14-2016, 11:06 AM

No business from me either. Sitebuilder has served both my Wife and me well for over a decade on our easy to update websites, and ten bucks a month for unlimited everything, including people who don't use facebook, is little to nothing.

Brian Elfert

02-14-2016, 12:13 PM

Luckily, I was able to sorta read the VFW's website under the Facebook login box to discover they decided to close for Valentine's day. I would have been unhappy to drive all the way over there to find they were closed. (I suppose they figured nobody celebrates Valentines's Day at the VFW restaurant.) I forgot about Valentine's day so probably not a good day to go out for breakfast anyhow.

Barry McFadden

02-14-2016, 12:39 PM

I am not a Facebook member or any other social media member but I have free a website for my photography and woodworking with weebly.com that works well...wix.com is another site where you can make your own site for free. Really no need to restrict yourself to places like Facebook where people have to login to see it..

Art Mann

02-14-2016, 1:57 PM

I don't have a Facebook account and never will. Some people who have one are so attached to it that they believe almost everyone has an account. This thread should serve as an advisory to such people that Facebook links that require a log-in only aggravate people like the OP and me. That can be counterproductive.

For those who don't want a real website, another possibility is an Etsy store. It provides a commercial website on which people can post pictures and from which you can sell stuff directly. There are certain requirements that must be met and it takes some red tape to get it set up correctly. It isn't for everyone but I have met some people who make a living through Etsy. I have also met Etsy shoppers who go there routinely to buy gifts and hand made household items.

Sean Troy

02-14-2016, 2:25 PM

I doubt they'll miss your business. I don't mean that in a negative way towards you, it's your right not to like it but a lot more do than don't.

Mike Cutler

02-14-2016, 3:29 PM

As a Facebook user, I don't like this either.
I have yet to see a FB business login, that doesn't ask you to agree to "share" your contacts with FB to log into the page.
Facebook does enough data mining on it's own. I'm not going to help them.
Secure websites can be very cheap to set up and run.
I'm with you Brian.

Keith Outten

02-14-2016, 4:46 PM

I have to admit that I also agree with Brian. If you have a real company you should have a real website with your own domain name and email address at the very least. I expect that most large businesses will think less of your company if your using a social media site to promote your services. That might not be a concern for some but it would be a disaster for me as I rarely do business with the public.

Sam Murdoch

02-14-2016, 6:16 PM

I doubt they'll miss your business. I don't mean that in a negative way towards you, it's your right not to like it but a lot more do than don't.

I'm on knife forum and flashlight forum too and it amazes me how many knife makers and flashlight modders are using FB as their only web page. I, like the OP, will not stay on the site if FB demands a log in. I am pretty certain that the flashlight modder or knife maker would not want to think that he/she is turning away good business in a cutthroat ( :D) competitive market because of FB policy but that is the way it is for many of us who are willing to spend but don't want the aggravation associated with FB. YES - they will miss my business. You can create a web site and have it hosted for a year - easily less than $200.00. I've done it for myself and friends. IMHO - Bad business not to have your own web site too, especially for a limited product/1 person shop company like those I've mentioned.

Mike Chance in Iowa

02-14-2016, 10:34 PM

I don't use FB either, but the sad part is, they already have all my personal info, and probably a good majority of everyone else. How? By your friends and relatives who use FB and have shared their contact info. Look how many people have phone numbers birthdays, home & work addresses, email addreses and lots of other info in their contacts and then link their new smart phone with FB.

Brian Elfert

02-14-2016, 11:08 PM

I will admit that Facebook can be a lot easier than a website for a small business that needs to continually uploads photos and such for new inventory. I know businesses that have a regular website with their contact info, but the real action is on Facebook. I don't have as much issue with businesses using Facebook if their page is public and I don't need a Facebook login to view it.

The worst is websites that use Facebook logins for their website and have no other option to login without Facebook. Why should I need a Facebook login for a website that isn't related to Facebook?

Rich Engelhardt

02-15-2016, 12:20 AM

I use both - FB and web site for lots of different things.

For like 99% of the bars we hit for their wing specials, a full blown web site would be a waste of money.

Larry Frank

02-15-2016, 7:08 AM

If I have to log into Facebook to see a business website, sorry but I am going elsewhere.

Brian Tymchak

02-15-2016, 8:34 AM

I am not a Facebook member or any other social media member

:) I know that you mean Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc, but you do post here on SMC and that qualifies you as a member of a social media site.

Brian Elfert

02-15-2016, 8:45 AM

Forums were around before social media was really a thing.

Frederick Skelly

02-15-2016, 9:07 AM

I don't use FB either, but the sad part is, they already have all my personal info, and probably a good majority of everyone else. How? By your friends and relatives who use FB and have shared their contact info.

You're right Mike. One of my idiot relatives did that, plus made a habit of posting ALL SORTS of family info on FB. I was really hot about it when I found out. Still am. With fools like that, it's hard to retain much of your privacy.

Barry McFadden

02-15-2016, 9:22 AM

:) I know that you mean Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc, but you do post here on SMC and that qualifies you as a member of a social media site.

I don't believe that is true at all. This is a site for posting about woodworking, engraving, boat building, etc.... you won't find a bunch of people on here asking you to "be my friend" or "like" me or actually posting that they got drunk last night and are hung over today, or feeling the need to update their "status" every 10 minutes... as if anyone cares.....

Scott Shepherd

02-15-2016, 9:48 AM

Well, the reality is that it's either difficult, time-consuming or expensive to maintain a website anymore. Small mom-and-pop operations that don't depend on web traffic will always have a hard time justifying that expense of time, resources or learning curve.

You are kidding right? Never in history has it been cheaper or easier to create a website. If your business can't afford $30 a month, then you've got some serious issues with your business model.

Brian Tymchak

02-15-2016, 11:22 AM

I don't believe that is true at all. This is a site for posting about woodworking, engraving, boat building, etc.... you won't find a bunch of people on here asking you to "be my friend" or "like" me or actually posting that they got drunk last night and are hung over today, or feeling the need to update their "status" every 10 minutes... as if anyone cares.....

Sorry, I didn't have any thought that this would become a discussion point. My post was kind of a friendly nudge in the side so to speak.

social media is a very broad domain that includes any sites or apps or publications that allow users to share information. Here's an interesting chart (http://itknowledgeexchange.techtarget.com/writing-for-business/files/2015/05/JESS3_BrianSolis_ConversationPrism4_WEB_1280x1024. jpg) I came across a while back showing the breadth of the social media spectrum. SMC could fit in 3 or 4 of those categories (blog, documents, etc) but mostly in the Discussion and Forums wedge at the bottom of the chart.

Social networking sites such as Facebook are also a part of that social media spectrum, just with a different content style. FWIW, we have social networking features here on the Creek such as Friends and Groups, and I've seen lots of requests over the years to have a "like" capability, but we can rate threads. And I have seen some posts in the Lumber Yard and Off Topic Forum that have shared very personal information, IMHO, probably far too much personal info, because Off Topic Forum is open to search engines. So if you define social media as what Facebook is, then SMC is relatively close.

BTW, I share most others opinions in this thread about Facebook, etc. I don't have accounts on those either because it's not in my nature to share that kind of info and I could care less what a work acquaintance had for lunch Saturday. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but that's just the way it is for me. I once had a Twitter account to follow a few sports stars. But when I saw the inane stuff being posted, I closed the account. When I bump into a business Facebook page requiring a login, I quit. If a business Facebook page is requiring sharing of contacts as someone posted, that's way, way over the line in my book. I hesitate to use Cloud-based services for personal use because that's pretty much the Wild West for security (thanks Google!). Secure Sockets (https) is about as far as I trust privacy in the cyber world, and even that can be hacked around.

Art Mann

02-15-2016, 1:22 PM

I think a "Like" button is totally worthless unless you also have a "Dislike" button. A "Like" button is just a beg for a compliment whether it is warranted or not.

Jim Koepke

02-15-2016, 2:42 PM

I think a "Like" button is totally worthless unless you also have a "Dislike" button. A "Like" button is just a beg for a compliment whether it is warranted or not.

Sadly the sensitivities of the world can not deal with a "Dislike" button.

There is also the problem with internet trolls who relish the idea of ruining the day of anyone and everyone they can. They would likely push the "Dislike" button on their own mother from every computer or mobile device they could just for their own warped sense of fun.

jtk

Steve Peterson

02-15-2016, 11:46 PM

I agree completely. It is very annoying when you have to log in to see what you are interested in. The other one that bugs me is Pinterest. Things I often search for show up on Pinterest, but then a login screen pops up preventing you from seeing anything.

Steve

Rich Engelhardt

02-16-2016, 12:21 AM

Forums were around before social media was really a thing.
Nope - other way around.
Social media - email/Community Memory predate "forums" - Usenet, by a good 6/7 years.

It really doesn't matter though since at their heart, they are both the same thing.

Re: a "like" button - - 'scuse me folks, but, you are aware that you can rate threads here aren't you? That's what those little stars you see mean.

Phil Stone

02-16-2016, 1:44 AM

Add me to the list of people you will lose as potential customers with your Facebook-only web presence. There are many cheap alternatives, don't be lazy about it, and don't contribute to the trend of Facebook becoming synonymous with the Internet.

Brian Elfert

02-16-2016, 4:03 AM

Nope - other way around.
Social media - email/Community Memory predate "forums" - Usenet, by a good 6/7 years.

My point is that I don't recall anybody calling it social media in the Usenet or early forum days. Social media seemed like it started to be a thing about the time that Myspace became big.

Jason Roehl

02-16-2016, 6:26 AM

You are kidding right? Never in history has it been cheaper or easier to create a website. If your business can't afford $30 a month, then you've got some serious issues with your business model.

Does $30/month keep your website content up-to-date with product lines and news? A stale website is a dead website. For a mom-and-pop operation that has a retail location open 10-12 hours per day, any web presence that requires more than a few minutes a day isn't likely to be adopted and used to its full potential. A quick post on Facebook at least partially fills that gap.

Rich Engelhardt

02-16-2016, 6:26 AM

Yeah - I'll give you that point.
Terms come and go though.

So do perceptions. I recall a lot of businesses I serviced that resisted email and web pages back in the 1990's.

Mike Null

02-16-2016, 7:26 AM

Jason

I too, disagree with you about a website. Mine is now up to $12.95 per month (Yahoo) and delivers more than you can imagine with next to no attention. It is not true that a website has to be tended regularly. I sometimes go several months without any updating and it still works just fine.

I too refuse to participate in FB, Twitter and all the others.

Curt Harms

02-16-2016, 7:53 AM

Scott Shepherd

02-16-2016, 8:09 AM

Does $30/month keep your website content up-to-date with product lines and news? A stale website is a dead website. For a mom-and-pop operation that has a retail location open 10-12 hours per day, any web presence that requires more than a few minutes a day isn't likely to be adopted and used to its full potential. A quick post on Facebook at least partially fills that gap.

Sure does! With the changes made to websites today, and 1 page parallax scrolling pages being the normal now, site's like Wix and Shopify make updating your sites as easy, or easier than updating facebook. We haven't updated our sites in years now and the phone rings every single day from people who found us through our website.

We have an employee that's good with Facebook and I keep having the discussion with them "Our customers don't look on Facebook for our services". When you need a new widget, do you log into Facebook and search for a widget or do you go into Google and type "widget, Kansas City", and sift through the results?

We have never once got a customer from Facebook. Not once, and we do have a Facebook page and it does get updated. We've spent more time on Facebook than our own website, and again, zero sales from it. If we were selling different products and services, maybe it would be worth it, but in general, our customers aren't shopping for services on Facebook, which means if we wiped out our website and used Facebook, we'd cut dozens and dozens of calls out a month from customers and potential customers.

Val Kosmider

02-16-2016, 3:58 PM

I am getting entirely sick of businesses that use Facebook as their only website. If your business only uses Facebook you aren't getting my business. More and more Facebook is requiring you to login to see business Facebook pages. I am NEVER signing up for a Facebook account so I guess these businesses just don't want my business.

I went to look at the Facebook page for the local VFW this evening, but now Facebook won't let me see the site without a login. It used to be public. (Not a VFW member, but I eat at their restaurant occasionally.)

Agreed...see below for why!

You are kidding right? Never in history has it been cheaper or easier to create a website. If your business can't afford $30 a month, then you've got some serious issues with your business model.

Agreed...cost next to nothing to have, at least, a basic website about your business. Name, address, phone, product services and hours. I can call/contact of I need more.

I am also in the camp where if I am forced to create an account or use social networking to do business with you, I go elsewhere. It is a choice and there are plenty of choices out there.

Agreed...log in? Nope. I already have pages of "log in" info...including Sawmill Creek! I don't need another log in just to get basic info about your business.

I doubt they'll miss your business. I don't mean that in a negative way towards you, it's your right not to like it but a lot more do than don't.

I think you ought to rethink this idea. There are millions of us who just blow you off as not being serious if you are using FB for your surrogate web site.

I have to admit that I also agree with Brian. If you have a real company you should have a real website with your own domain name and email address at the very least. I expect that most large businesses will think less of your company if your using a social media site to promote your services. That might not be a concern for some but it would be a disaster for me as I rarely do business with the public.

Agreed. This sums it up pretty nicely. If you are scraping by over a few dollars to have a web site, what else are you scraping by on? You probably wouldn't run your store out of your trunk; your web site is your store front window--putting it behind a password is just poor business sense.

IMHO :D

Art Mann

02-16-2016, 7:06 PM

Brian Elfert

02-17-2016, 12:08 AM

The problem isn't just Facebook. More and more, woodworking supply websites are requiring that you create an account and log in before buying anything. There is a CNC router bit and tooling website that I quit using, even though they have pretty good tooling at pretty good prices, because they force all customers to have a log in. If I am going to have to log in to every on line store I shop, why shouldn't I just create an Amazon account and buy everything there? Their prices are always competitive and it sure beats keeping up with dozens of useless account names and passwords.

Many online stores require accounts, but some have guest options. I put up with it because I can usually get better prices than Amazon and Amazon does not carry everything.

Shawn Pachlhofer

02-17-2016, 2:25 AM

Curious...please answer the following questions...

How many of you are age:

less than 30?
30-45?
45-60?
60+?

Use LinkedIn?

Curt Harms

02-17-2016, 6:29 AM

The problem isn't just Facebook. More and more, woodworking supply websites are requiring that you create an account and log in before buying anything. There is a CNC router bit and tooling website that I quit using, even though they have pretty good tooling at pretty good prices, because they force all customers to have a log in. If I am going to have to log in to every on line store I shop, why shouldn't I just create an Amazon account and buy everything there? Their prices are always competitive and it sure beats keeping up with dozens of useless account names and passwords.

I use one simple user name and password on all the sites that ask for a user name and password and don't need to. If they want to process and/or store credit card info that's another matter and someplace where paypal is handy. Something that I do find irritating is not showing shipping$ without an account or login. If I'm interested enough I'll do a guest login. 1313 mockingbird lane is a popular street address:).

Bert Kemp

02-17-2016, 7:09 PM

$3o a month yikes those must be awesome websites. I pay $60 a YEAR and $12 for my domain name.
I can do pretty much what I want to my site. Easy to add pictures and stuff.

Sure does! With the changes made to websites today, and 1 page parallax scrolling pages being the normal now, site's like Wix and Shopify make updating your sites as easy, or easier than updating facebook. We haven't updated our sites in years now and the phone rings every single day from people who found us through our website.

We have an employee that's good with Facebook and I keep having the discussion with them "Our customers don't look on Facebook for our services". When you need a new widget, do you log into Facebook and search for a widget or do you go into Google and type "widget, Kansas City", and sift through the results?

We have never once got a customer from Facebook. Not once, and we do have a Facebook page and it does get updated. We've spent more time on Facebook than our own website, and again, zero sales from it. If we were selling different products and services, maybe it would be worth it, but in general, our customers aren't shopping for services on Facebook, which means if we wiped out our website and used Facebook, we'd cut dozens and dozens of calls out a month from customers and potential customers.

Duane Meadows

02-17-2016, 9:24 PM

... Something that I do find irritating is not showing shipping$ without an account or login. If I'm interested enough I'll do a guest login. 1313 mockingbird lane is a popular street address:).

I totally agree with you, and on small things the shipping can be the major part of the expense! That to me is a good way to lose a sale.

Brian Ashton

02-19-2016, 11:00 PM

Easy to get rid of garbage like pintrest when searching. Just add - (no space between the minus sign and the word) in front of what ever word you want discarded from the search results... you can have multiple disregard words as long as each has the minus sign in front of it. I.e. chippendale -pintrest -facebook... all search results that contain pintrest or facebook will be excluded from the results. I always use that function always cause theres so much garbage on the internet. Wirks on ebay also to get rid of garbage.

I also move on if a web based business puts up such annoyances. Would you enter a store if at the door they required you to sign in and hand over personal details. Too many other businesses I can go to out there that understand you don't hinder the customer to waste time or deal with those that don't

To be honest you'd have to be pretty foolish as a business owner to think you can afford to pass up on making money and increasing profit

Brian Elfert

02-19-2016, 11:42 PM

I just discovered that with Firefox if I try to access business webpages on Facebook I get a login prompt every time. If I use Internet Explorer I can view the same Facebook pages with no login prompt. It still doesn't mean I like when companies use Facebook for web pages.

Tony Zona

02-20-2016, 6:09 AM

Easy to get rid of garbage like pintrest when searching. Just add - (no space between the minus sign and the word) in front of what ever word you want discarded from the search results...

Hm. I just tried a search "apples -apple.com"
Apple.com was the second result reported.

Then I tried "apples -apple"
No apple.com returns appeared.

Now I'm confused, but the "-" is a good feature I have not used for a long time. Thanks for reminding me.

Search for "apples -apples". :D