Depth adjustment technique on Stanley plane

[Herv Peairs]

Hi all,

I have just restored a flea market #3C (pre-WWII) by following pretty closely Chris Schwarz's Super-Tune a Hand Plane video. I am quite pleased with the result -- I can cut a nice whispy thin shaving with it -- a wonderful feeling. However, I am pretty new to hand tools and I'm not sure how the depth adjustment should "feel". If I set the cap iron adjust screw to hold the blade fairly solidly in place, it's pretty difficult to change the blade depth via the depth adjustment screw. If I back off on the cap iron screw just a bit, depth adjustment is easier but then I can actually move the plane iron laterally with just finger pressure. I realize feel is subjective, but I have read about people changing depth on the fly, and that's not going to happen here. With the cap iron reasonably tight, I have to pick the plane up off the work so I can apply enough torque to the depth adjustment screw.

One thing I'm wondering -- Chris has you restore the machined surfaces of the frog that the plane iron rests on. On this plane those surfaces were not quite flat and had some "patina". By restoring these surfaces I've added surface area and therefore probably friction. I did examine the frog for projections that might be the cause but it's smooth and flat. I'm about to start in on a #5, and I'm wondering if I should just leave that surface alone.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Herv

[Mike Holbrook]

Herv,

I have been exploring a similar train of thought in the thread below "Which Smoothing Plane". Try reading my post at the end of page 5. Several guys respond. Jim Koepke links to a long post he made on tuning Stanley planes, which can also be found in the marked posts at the top of this forum. Although a rough surface on your frog could cause an issue I doubt that after working those surfaces your issues are occurring there.

I believe you will find at least part of the answer lies in careful adjustment of the lever cap screw (LCS). The actual lever cap can also become rusted or have other issues as can the side to side adjustment lever below the blade. The depth adjustment screw needs to move freely too. Many Stanley planes have a screw that can lock the depth adjusting screw down, just below the wheel itself. All of these adjustments effect how that little cog in the notch in your blade moves around. That cog needs a little room to move but it also needs to engage and adjust properly which is where I believe the tension issues arise. Depending on the size shaving and how much camber you have in your blade, your planes mouth and the position of the frog may become issues. Most experienced Stanley plane users seem to adjust the frog's surface roughly on a plane with the inside of the plane bodies mouth and leave it there. As you are finding out, knowing where the issue is does not necesaarily fix problems as one has to figure out, in fairly exact terms, how to adjust these adjustments.

I was working on raising and lowering the blades on several of my Stanley planes last night while I was flattening a piece of Cherry. I think I have generally been making my LCS screws and levers too tight. My depth adjusting screws all seem to take a while to engage. They seem to move with a light touch for a few turns and then become much stiffer. Another issue I am having is some of my LCS screws do not seem to be making good purchase against the lever caps, sometimes moving under pressure. I plan to shop for a few extra LSC screws today as some may have been swapped around or arrived with the wrong screw...

Looking forward to hearing responses as my attempt to discuss specific Stanley adjustment issues was soon lost in the longer "Which Smoothing Plane" thread.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Herv,

I see you have been around awhile, but welcome to the Creek anyway. Your location isn't listed in your profile. You may live close to another member who would be happy to help you to set up your planes.

Adjusting the lever cap screw (LCS) is a bit tricky at times. Sometime the difference between working great and not working is less than 1/16 rotation.

Also depending on when the plane was made it may have a small adjustment wheel.

Even on a well set up plane the adjustment can be a little tricky to manage single handed. I sometimes need to add my left hand in to the adjusting action.

From Mike's post:


My depth adjusting screws all seem to take a while to engage. They seem to move with a light touch for a few turns and then become much stiffer.

This is commonly referred to as backlash or slop in the adjustment mechanism. The tolerances on the original manufacture of Stanley planes wasn't high precision. The adjusters can turn freely for a few revolutions without engaging the adjustment linkage. Then the space in the chip breaker may be larger than the tip of the yoke giving it some free space to move about.

This is why in the Stanley instruction pamphlets it suggest to set blades with the adjuster in the advancing position. In other words if the blade is retracted, move the adjuster back to the point where it engages to advance. This helps to prevent the work from causing the blade to move back into the plane with the effect of reducing the shaving thickness.

From Herv's post:


If I set the cap iron adjust screw to hold the blade fairly solidly in place, it's pretty difficult to change the blade depth via the depth adjustment screw. If I back off on the cap iron screw just a bit, depth adjustment is easier but then I can actually move the plane iron laterally with just finger pressure.

This sounds like you are closing in on setting the LCS. The important part is being able to make the adjustments and not having the work change the settings.

Mike mentioned the "Neanderthal Sticky Threads." The one I mention most often is:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

A lot of information is archived in one spot for ease of retrieval.

jtk

[Mike Brady]

Experience will build your ability to find the "right' setting for the lever cap screw. Due to wide variances in manufacturing and wear, old Stanley planes will be inconsistent in adjustments. Over-tightening a lever cap screw can actually distort the sole of the plane around the critical mouth area, making it pull away ever-so-slightly from the wood being planed; in some cases, permanently. You should try to find that tension that is just enough to hold the setting of the blade alignment. Some users will give the screw a slight turn tighter with a screwdriver once they get the proper blade depth and skew set. This can lead, however, to the dreaded over-tightening. I have found that the slightly thicker replacement blades for Stanley planes, from Ron Hock, hold their lateral adjustments a bit better than the thin stock irons do. They also can be made wicked sharp (I use the regular Hock steel, not the A-2).

As an added suggestion, use a smaller block of soft wood like like poplar, about 1/2" thick to set your plane irons. Put the block on edge into your vise and then take shavings, left, right, and center until the shavings are consistent across the entire width of the cut. Move the lateral adjust ever so slightly to the side that makes the thicker shaving. This is the point that a very little extra tension could be put on that lever cap screw, if needed to hold the adjustment. Don't do that unless needed.

I hope this helps.

[Robert Engel]

Minor adjustments can have big effect. No more then 1/8 turn of cap iron screw at a time.

If you've already tried this, then my thoughts are:

1. Recheck frog surface for flat.
2. Check the blade/cap iron for warp.
3. Thoroughly clean and lubricate frog surface.

[Glen Canaday]

I was going to add #3 in the above post. Oil or wax the bearing surface of the frog, then adjust the LCS until it is held firmly, but not tightly. Lever cap cam should feel as if it is snugging up when you engage it but you should be able to flip it on of off with one finger.

Tight is tight, too tight is broken.

Jim's post lays it out pretty good but there is no substitute for seeing it for yourself. Where are you?

[Herv Peairs]

Thanks to all, great responses! I'm going to try a little wax first and see what happens.

I'd forgotten I needed to create a profile, that's done now.

Herv

[Mike Brady]

Glen, please expand on your experience with lubing the face of the frog. Making it slicker seems counter-intuitive. That will call for more tension on the frog screw to counter the slickness. Screw tension and soft cast iron are not good friends.

[Jim Koepke]

Glen, please expand on your experience with lubing the face of the frog. Making it slicker seems counter-intuitive. That will call for more tension on the frog screw to counter the slickness. Screw tension and soft cast iron are not good friends.

I can not speak for Glen, but I can relate what I do. Most of the time after sharpening a plane blade, especially on water stones, it is dried, stropped, then wiped all over with a rag that is saturated with an oil and wax furniture polish. There is usually a little bit of mineral oil or even motor oil rubbed on the chip breaker where it mates with the blade. The furniture polish rag is then often run over the face of the frog and the lever cap.

It isn't that the frog face is heavily lubed, it is that it has some lubrication administered. This promotes smooth movement of the parts without leading to slippage.

jtk

[Mike Brady]

Thanks. I get that aspect of maintenance and performance. I was envisioning more of a lube job. Much of the slop in lateral adjusters on Stanley planes comes from loose or worn rivets that attach the lever to the frog. I would advise great caution in attempting to fix that. Frogs are easily broken in that process.

[Glen Canaday]

Glen, please expand on your experience with lubing the face of the frog. Making it slicker seems counter-intuitive. That will call for more tension on the frog screw to counter the slickness. Screw tension and soft cast iron are not good friends.

I wrote a great big reply before I realized that you thought I meant to grease up the lever cap side! No, I mean the bearing face of the frog only. The iron can be greased on that all it wants but it will never budge because of the linkage through the cap iron screw to the yoke to the adjuster knob threads.

I'm not meaning to lube the thing to within an inch of its life, just oil or wax the frog surface enough that the iron won't bind on the bearing surfaces. It will help with ease of adjustment if the lever cap screw is a little too tight. That screw should still be only just tight enough that the lever cap firmly holds the iron assembly while loose enough that one can take the lever cap out with one finger, so letting it stay a little slippery won't cover for a badly set screw but it will allow for easier adjustment when it is set properly.

I also lube the adjuster knob threads and each joint/bearing surface in the whole adjustment linkage so I don't have to fight to change the depth of cut. Easy is good, imo.