Building dream shop, need clever ideas

[Rick Fisher]

Hello.

We recently sold our house and are building a new one. As part of this, I am able to build my own woodworking shop. The zoning on the lot only allows for 985sf. So .. I'm building the shop 985 sf.

I want as few regrets as possible.

So far, this is what I've arranged. The shop is excavated right now. Foundation walls on the house where poured on Friday.

(1) The shop will be 985sf .. but it has a full basement with a 7 foot ceiling height. This building is actually a 2 car garage, so the floor is engineered to be able to park 2 cars on it. My reason for going with a wooden floor are to be able to run dust collection and electrical downstairs. And to have the storage.. I will set up sharpening downstairs as well. There will be a proper set of stairs going down to the basement.

(2) I plan on sheathing the interior walls which are covered in drywall, with 3/8" Plywood first. That will mean setting all electrical boxes at 1" instead of 5/8". The reason is for backing.

(3) This shop will have its own 200 amp panel.

(4) It appears the shop is going to have an 8/12 roof, with Sizzor trusses of 5/12 inside. At 27 feet wide, and with 9' walls, that should net a centerline ceiling height of just over 14'. I plan on doing the ceilings in 1x6 T+G Pine. Walls in Drywall.

(5) The shop will have water and sewer. I plan on putting in a sink.


What I'm hoping for is tips.. For the stuff I will wish I did.

I have a phase converter and a 3 phase panel to install.

[Mark Kornell]

Rick,

My.shop is similar in size.to yours - 1070 sf, though I put in an 80 sf office room netting me just under 1000 sf of shop area. Here's a few suggestions:

- Unless the shop is right next to your house, put in a toilet.
- Sewer or septic? If septic, have your sink drain into a dry well. Very little of what you put into a shop sink can be processed by a septic system.
- if you use hand tools at all, have the sharpening station on the main level, right next to a sink.
- consider using 5/8" or 3/4" plywood for interior sheathing and skipping the drywall. Not as nice a finish, though.
- setting up a finishing room?
- make your entry door large, like 4' x 8'.
- are you planning on storing wood and/or sheet good downstairs? Sounds inconvenient.
- light. Lots of it.
- I really don't need an office in the shop. I do all my desk work in the house.
- I surface mounted all my power, but being able to run stuff in the floor gives you the same kind of flexibility.
- don't put the dust collection downstairs. Bags of sawdust are heavy.


If you ever get off the island and into the Okanagan, come by for a tour.

[Don Parker]

I agree with Mark that you should put in a toilet.

I also agree that the basement idea might need some tweaking. It might be better to use that space down there for things that you won't need that often, but also won't be a huge hassle to carry up and down a set of stairs. Will the stairs to the basement be inside or outside, or both? If you put something like a compressor or a dust collector down there (which sounds like a good way to decrease noise and run lines), an outside set of stairs and a big outside door might be easier to deal with. I can just imagine an inside staircase introducing turns and tight corners that will complicate things. In general, I would arrange things so that I only go up and down the stairs every so often, and I would make it as easy as possible to get big, heavy things up and down the stairs.

if there is ever a chance you will move, you should make sure during the construction of this building that it can be converted to a 2 car garage without too much expense. Not everybody wants a workshop, but everybody wants a garage. Make sure there is a driveway that leads to a wall where a decent garage door can be installed later without tearing the whole wall out.

If building codes will let you use plywood as the show face of the walls instead of drywall, then that definitely increases the utility of the walls as hanging space. But, you might have to use drywall, in which case I like the interior sheathing idea.

How are you heating and cooling? Mini-splits seem to be a good choice these days, but they take up wall space, and you have that nice basement. Maybe something that can make use of the basement space would be better.

What windows will you put in, and where? It is a crime to build a shop above ground and not have abundant natural light.

I disagree with Mark about the desk. I would have a space for sitting at a desk and using a computer, and a bookshelf for essential books, plans, etc. I would also make sure you can get an Internet connection out in the shop.

if you are going to run dust collection under the wooden floor, you might as well run electrical down there, too, as you have mentioned. You might want to think about how changes in tool location will affect the floor. I like to rearrange things every so often. I would hate to have a floor that can't be easily reconfigured and repaired. Or, I guess you can just install a set number of workstations along the walls, each of which gets an electrical outlet and a dust collection connection. That would let you use a more difficult floor to reconfigure.

Good luck! Sounds like fun.

[Al Launier]

If you still have the opportunity:

Re-excavate the basement to provide an 8' ceiling. 7' ceiling height limitations when handling larger work pieces & limits overhead storage.
Wide walk-out basement door with ramped external entrance for wheeling in/out equipment, materials, storage, etc.
Elevator for transferring materials, or large, hinged access floor panel with trolley crane for lifting/lowering materials.


How about a sketch of what your thoughts are?

[Mike Heidrick]

Congrats on getting your new dream space!

[Jebediah Eckert]

It would all depend on the grade of the land but I plan to put in a "loading dock" when I put up a barn. I can't really find a picture of one but basically a spot with maybe a double door that you could back a pickup truck to and the tailgate would be level with the floor. Around here all the farmer's barns seem to have one. It sure would make moving lumber in, as well as machines and anything else heavy, much easier.

You would lose the wall space at the doors. However, you wouldn't need it all that often so you could still put one of your wheeled machines there and just move it when you need access to the door.

[Dave Haughs]

You've got the BIG wish I had already on your list. A basement for being able to run electrical and duct work underneath right to the tools. I'd put my dust collector down there and store my lumber as well, especially if I could have stairs leading to an outside door. Nice wide stairs. I agree that stuff is heavy, but if you had wide stairs you could put in a lift or a sled of sorts on a winch to get stuff in and out.

I'd still have room for lumber storage on the main floor where I could have the things I am working on easily accessed. Windows/doors for fresh air. At least one overhead door. Lots of lights. Air conditioning/Heat. Spray booth ventilation.

Toilet may be unnecessary if you have a shop sink. Not to be crude.

[John K Jordan]

Sounds like fun! You are smart to add 3-phase. Here are some notes based entirely on my own experience building my shop. Perhaps something will apply to your situation. Also, there are some good books on building a shop in a small space.

Can you build an outside porch or overhang without going over the sq ft limit? If so, a dry area in front of the entrance door would be nice.

You mentioned a floor built for cars. Does that mean garage doors in the current plan? If not, I recommend (in addition to a man door) adding at least one double door to the outside to move equipment in and out. I put three in my shop and they are helpful at times.

The first thing I would ask about planning the interior is what kind of work do you plan to do in the shop? What if interests change in the future? Pinning it down now and allowing for future flexibility can save much grief. For example, my focus areas are woodturning, some flat wood, machining, welding, and farm maintenance. I planned the placement and clearance around every tool and work area before I finished preparing the ground. I slid cutouts around on a big sheet of paper. I had cutouts to represent sheets of plywood, space needed for chairs, walking, etc. I probably had 50 pages of drawings and revisions in my notebook before I was done.

For a small shop creative machine placement might be needed. A friend found that putting some major machines like the table saw and big lathe at an angle was a better use of space. If the shop has a garage or double door it might be opened for occasional long stock. I positioned double doors, both interior and exterior, so they would like up with my cabinet saw and can be opened if needed. I actually planned the door location after I decided on the exact tablesaw placement.

Do you do wood turning? If so, having a sharpening station within a few steps of the lathe is a huge help.

For the electrical service I ignored the helpful advice of all the amateur and professional electrician friends who wanted to save me money with aluminum cable and the minimum-sized conductors. My electrical run was about 250 ft and if I did what "everybody else" was doing the voltage drop with coincidental large current draws was too much for me. I did my own calculations for 3% drop at 100 amps and ran big copper even though it was expensive. This was probably overkill but I'm not sorry. Since I did all the work myself (including the trench) it was certainly cheaper than paying someone to install a less expensive service. Today I see no significant drop even when two 5 hp motors start at the same time.

Put in an electrical panel with more spaces for circuit breakers than you think you will ever need. They get used up quickly. I like write the number of the circuit on each receptacle and light switch, both inside and on the cover.

When wiring is complete and the walls are not yet covered, take photographs of the wiring so you can figure out exactly where the wires are in the future. You will NOT remember. Make a good diagram too. BTW, I covered my interior walls with 1/2" plywood held up with screws. This lets me easily remove a panel as needed for modifications or repairs. Also lets me hang stuff anywhere. Your building codes may not permit plywood on the walls.

I put duplex outlets above machine and worktable height and every 4' or closer. Where I planned machines like the lathe, I added extra quad recepticals. I still don't have enough.

At the wood lathe, big bandsaw, and milling machine/metal lathe I added several outlets controlled by a switch just for task lighting on swing arms.

I wired several outlets in the ceiling. One is for the ceiling-mounted air filter. Others are for pull-down power cords on reels for occasional use in the middle of the shop. I hate extension cords.

I wired more 50 amp 220 v outlets that I thought I would ever need for my little weld shop, both inside and out. One line is dedicated to the air compressor and dust collector closet.

For shop lighting I used T5 fluorescent fixtures. Theses are switched according to zones so I don't waste a lot of power lighting areas not in use. In addition, the T5 electronic ballasts have a feature that allows switching two of the four bulbs independently. I put separate switches high on the wall for these. Most of the time just two bulbs in each fixture are sufficient light (my buddy still comments about needing sun glasses) but I can double the light in an area when needed.

If you plan any access to the area above the ceiling you might do this: I added a light fixture in the attic space. The switch is high on the wall in the shop and has a red pilot light to let me know if I accidentally left the light on.

A absolutely need an office area especially since my shop is about 250 from the house. In the office area I have two office cubicle style desks (the desk surface, a big shelf above, and a cabinet up high), a big easy chair, a file cabinet, a book shelf, a glass-front cabinet, and all the first aid and safety items such as extra safety glasses and dust masks for visitors. The office area also houses the video surveillance, security system, WiFi router, personal cell tower, a monitor/player for YouTube and shop-related DVDs, and the microscopes for animal health care. The video system has cameras inside and out - I can see what is going on from any where in the world where I have internet access. The inside camera can be rotated remotely. If the dogs bark at night I can check all cameras in a few seconds.

I ran ethernet cable in a separate underground conduit for the electronics, a spare in case one had a problem or for future use. I also recommend this: while the trench is open add a second empty 2-2.5" conduit with a rope inside to pull some future cable.

I added heat and air which makes the shop useful year around. I saved a huge sum simply by assembling and installing the interior duct work and ceiling diffusers and electrical wiring myself. I built with 2x6 walls for sturdiness and extra insulation space. I like natural lighting but I limited my windows to minimize heat loss and to maximize wall space.

Can you add an exterior closet for the dust collector and air compressor without increasing the mandated footprint maximum? Perhaps engineer it to hang it a foot off the ground? Putting these huge noisemakers behind some sound insulated wall sure makes life more pleasant. I built a 4x8 closet but you may not be able to spare the floor space. Some people put an air compressor high on a wall. Your basement might be a good place if you can remember to drain the moisture or add an auto-drain. Since my air compressor is not in the main room I piped the air through the wall to the valves, separator, dryer, and regulator and also wired an electrical disconnect switch outside the closet. I put a double door on the closet facing away from the main shop area. I also ran air lines to outlets all through the main shop and one to the outside. I hate air lines stretched across the floor.

When I finally get around to it, my shop will have a high shelf running all the way around the walls. This will need a step stool or a grabber to access but allows needed storage of little-used items. Cabinets are better for dust control if the budget will allow.

One thing that has saved me a lot of trouble: electronic locks on the doors. I built my shop down by my barn. With the keypad locks I can always unlock or lock the shop without having a key with me.

BTW, tell people I built my shop with my bare hands from clearing the ground to the locks on the doors. OK, I lie, I used tools. This saves a huge amount of money and insures everything is exactly the way I want it. However, it takes forever. Given the money, it would certainly have been done quicker given some hired help. If you are interested, here is a floor plan without the equipment placement. What I don't have is water in the shop but it is close and I plan a bath and small kitchen expansion when I save up some more cash and when I get to it. You just can't do everything the same day.

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JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Since you're starting with a clean slate, instead of lining the shop with the 3/4" plywood over drywall, why not put in a flexible French Cleat system to hang cabinetry, shelving units, tool racks, etc.?'

Consider putting in a hinged hatch in the floor to allow easier movement of lengths of lumber from storage downstairs up to the shop and vice versa. Be sure you account for controlling humidity in that basement storage area, too.

In lieu of a permanent finishing area, put in provisions for heavy curtains to section of an area in your shop for doing finishing work. This assumes you will be using low-VOC finishes and don't need a formal spray booth.

Given the space you will have, if you can arrange things to have the machines more toward one end and the bench/assembly area toward the other, it will make larger projects more comfortable to work. This is something I struggle with in a small way due to some decisions I made early on for my shop as well as some things I had no control over due to the existing structure.

Lighting, lighting, lighting...bright; daylight temp, comprehensive.

And don't forget a security system...

[terry mccammon]

If presuming by dust collection you meant to include a cyclone then you need all the ceiling height you can get. So plan that part accordingly.

[Rick Fisher]

Thanks for all the comments..

I had forgotten about the security system. Thanks

The shop will have an insulated 16x8 Garage door, from the outside it needs to look like a garage. The subdivision has a building scheme.

I wanted an 8' basement floor but hit water.. Ugg.. The water-table here is pretty high ( Island ) . The shop is actually on hold for another week while I get a height variance to be able to get to 7 feet. If you hit water, a variance is a given. 2 neighbors needed it and got it .. so its simply a time thing.

The number one reason for wanting the basement is for dust collection and wiring. Storage is obviously a bonus. All the woodworking will happen on the main floor in 985 sf. The joist are 12" OC .. and have 8 foot spans. triple 14" LVL beams ( Flush ) .. and posts.. The floor sheathing is 1-1/8" Edge Gold .. You could park a Sherman tank on it.

My DC is a Felder RL-160 .. It won't do stairs more than once. lol .. Compressor will also need to stay upstairs as its full sized. The basement is entirely underground .. like a prarie basement or a cellar.

There are some great ideas in these responses. I like the curtains for spraying.. Electronic locks is a done deal.

The shop has to have 5/8" Drywall on the walls for fire. The plywood has to go underneath. but I love the french cleat idea.

On the idea of an elevator. I am so interested in this idea but cant figure out how to do it cost effectively.

I plan on putting a heat pump in the shop, nothing fancy, just a single outlet or a single duct creating 3 outlets. That will provide AC in the summer. Also a sound system. The shop is 20 feet from the house, The house has a 2 car garage, This shop will basically look like we have a 4 car garage. (detached) .. If I ever sold the place the new owner could work on cars, whatever he wants..

[Dave Haughs]

Thanks for all the comments..

I had forgotten about the security system. Thanks


Good call. I alarmed my garage/shop doors and put cameras out there before anywhere else in the house :)



On the idea of an elevator. I am so interested in this idea but cant figure out how to do it cost effectively.



You can do a lot with a Harbor Freight AC electric winch, some pulleys and some creativity. I used to use one at my old house for a ceiling hanging sheet goods rack to raise and lower it for ease of use. I've used one to hoist a hard top off a jeep and store it and I now use one to hoist my dog box in and out of my truck and up to the ceiling. Wouldn't be hard to make a dumb waiter through a trap door if you needed one, or a lift that rolls up the edge of the stair stringers when needed. May be more trouble that its worth but for things like bags of sawdust and air compressors every once in a while it might be worth the couple hundred you'd have wrapped up in it. I always use safety chains with them as I don't trust them long term but they get the job done.

[Marty Schlosser]

Al's on the right path, but I'm wondering why you'd stop at 8'? A 9' basement height provides considerably more utility and, my area at least, greater saleability. I also agree with providing some sort of improved handling method between the basement and main level of the shop, however I'd be looking more at some sort of trolly that rolls on the tops of the stair stringers.



If you still have the opportunity:

Re-excavate the basement to provide an 8' ceiling. 7' ceiling height limitations when handling larger work pieces & limits overhead storage.
Wide walk-out basement door with ramped external entrance for wheeling in/out equipment, materials, storage, etc.
Elevator for transferring materials, or large, hinged access floor panel with trolley crane for lifting/lowering materials.


How about a sketch of what your thoughts are?

[Marty Schlosser]

Rick,

I have a basement located shop and successfully move heavy machinery down into and out of the shop whenever necessary. Although I hired a rigger to move my 1,600 lb Felder sliding saw into the basement, I've moved in everything else myself, the largest of which was my 1,400lb 16" jointer. I should mention that the rigger used a forklift to lower the saw into the stairwell, from which I'd removed the stairs beforehand.

Here are a few photos of how I do it, with the assistance of one other person:

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Here's what the ramp looks like. It's fabricated from two 4X4's that lay directly on the floor of the basement and the lip of the stairwell. I keep the 4X4s from moving around by screwing them to the tops of the stairs using 3 1/2" #8 head screws. To keep the skid which the machine's base is bolted on from sliding off the 4X4s, I sister a 2X6 to the outside edges of the 4X4s. There is a 1 1/2 ton capacity chain hoist at the top of the stairs, which I'd bolted to the exterior wall.

I set up the ramp whenever it's required, then remove it once the machinery move is over. If I would have known I'd be getting such heavy machinery when I was having the house built, I could have quite easily had the builder incorporate wider, heavier stair stringers which could have remained in place and been available at all times.


331269
This photo shows me lowering the base of my Wadkin RD 16" jointer onto the skid, in preparation for sliding it down the ramp. Once the machine has been bolted to the skid, I raise the loaded skid just enough to roll heavy pipes underneath it. These enable me to readily maneuver the loaded skid over the cement floor to the top of the ramp. I waxed the top faces of the ramp to facilitate sliding the loaded skid downwards, and once the skid is at the bottom, I use pry bars to help slide pipes underneath to maneuver it around the basement and into position.


331267
Here's how things look from the garage, as I was lowering my Wadkin RD Jointer base down the ramp.

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This is a photo of the purchaser of the Wadkin-Bursgreen 12" jointer, handling the chain hoist at the top of the stairway as that machine was being drawn upwards along the ramp.



On the idea of an elevator. I am so interested in this idea but cant figure out how to do it cost effectively.

[Peter Aeschliman]

After reading your post, Rick, my first thought about the basement was moisture... Especially since you and I share the same rainy climate. Then I read your second post where you say you hit water while digging.

As such, I imagine you've already thought hard about drainage. But if the water table is high, you're going to need lots and lots of good drainage to keep that basement dry. I just went through the arduous process of installing a interior french drain and sump pump in my basement shop-to-be. Certainly tested my will. Much easier to do now than after the fact.

So I would definitely recommend putting in a good exterior french drain, and maybe a gridwork of french drain pipes under your basement slab leading to a sump pump. For that square footage, in order to get the pitch of your piping right, you might need more than one sump pump in opposite corners. Much much easier for them to install all of that now before doing the next floor.

I'm not sure what the current construction practice is, but maybe they can pour gravel over the whole floor, then add some thick plastic sheeting, rigid foam insulation, and then your slab. I imagine that could help keep moisture out of the slab. Even when my basement floor looks and feels dry, it doesn't pass the plastic sheet test:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm_ZUaqybug

Also, minor point. I would strongly recommend putting your sharpening station in the work shop area, and give it a permanent area where it's always set up and ready to work. For me, I have to make sharpening super easy... otherwise I put it off. Maybe I'm just less disciplined than others though. :)

[Chris Padilla]

I see you mentioned 3/8" plywood. Did you really mean that? Have you looked at the 3/8" you plan to use? There isn't much to such thin plywood and it is rarely flat and can be hard to fasten without damage. I'm not sure I follow its intended use.

Overall, sounds like a blast. Put in more outlets than you think and more light than you think and access, access, access. We won't think of everything but we'll try!!

[John K Jordan]

he shop will have an insulated 16x8 Garage door,

If you spec'd a residential door, you might check into an industrial door. I put three overhead doors in my the bay area of my shop. Ordered residential on the advice of the salesman. When I talked to his boss one day he said I could get industrial doors for less money. (I have fairly plain doors, no windows) The industrial doors are thicker and have better insulation.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

I see you mentioned 3/8" plywood.

I missed that. I used 1/2" plywood. 3/8' seemed too flimsy to me.

Another thing I'm glad I did was specify 2x6s for the top chord of the trusses instead of the usual 2x4s. With 1/2" decking it made for a very sturdy roof. I also liked the larger heel height for the header/fascia and guttering. But oops, this is getting more into construction than ideas for the inside of the shop.

JKJ

[Jim Dwight]

My shop garage is much smaller, just 14x24 but it is immeasurably better than what I had when we bought the place - nothing. And it was as big as we could fit and look decent. It is an oversized extra 1 car next to the existing 2 car garage. Finished space over it meant a 5/8 fire rated ceiling but there is no code requirement on walls here so I used skim coated 7/16 waferboard roof sheathing. I put outlets about every 4 feet for the main 20A 120V tool circuit and a few scattered around for the 15A lighting circuit. My lights are fluorescent so they use very little current. I ran a 1 hp DC on that circuit in my last shop but I've decided the 1 hp is too small and for now I am just using my DD equipped shop vacuum. If I add a DC, it will be 2hp and will probably require another circuit. Probably won't happen due as much to space as anything. I use no 220V anything so I didn't have them run the circuit. I might regret not running another 20A 120V but the panel is just on the other side of the 2 car garage so it is not a huge issue to fix. My outlets are all 4 feet off the floor. I don't use most of the outlets because I like using the autoswitch on the shop vacuum requiring the tool be plugged into it. I saw an idea on the FOG where a guy ran a circuit just for this. He plugs the tool he wants to connect to the shop vacuum into this circuit and it trigger the vacuum. I use my shop vacuum on my BT3100 table saw (2.5 inch port), CMS, RAS, track saw and sanders. I would still have to move the hose but one less thing to move would be nice. Might be an idea. I plan to accomplish something similar with a Y extension cord so I can have a couple tools plugged in at once.

Even though I have no HVAC in the shop I insulated it fully. That alone (and the fact there is finished space above it) make it livable most of the time. I open the garage door and the back door for ventilation in the summer. I would insulate the shop as well as the house. I also have an insulated garage door.

I store hardwood on my one 24 foot wall with no windows, above the RAS/CMS station, on pieces of 1 inch electrical conduit set into holes drilled into doubled 2x4s in the wall. The doubled 2x4s where mostly there because the other garage is ballon framed and my contractor framed the new garage conventionally. Surprisingly sturdy.

The CMS and RAS sit side by side on a 12 foot base cabinet I made 8 inches shorter than the intended height. I shimmed the tools to the level I wanted them (and to account for the uneven floor concrete). I haven't made it yet but I will make a Ron Paulk style work surface to go on the remaining 7 feet or so and it will have flip stops that are flush with the surface like he has in his total workstation. I will probably make this surface removable and supportable by sawhorses for use with my CMS away from the shop. That will require a panel of the top surface be removable for CMS mounting. Or I may not. My CMS makes quite a mess (even with the vacuum) so I may just walk to the shop (or set the little 10 inch up on the back porch). The base cabinet is all drawers which I find much more useful than doors or shelves. I find shallow ones really useful - stuff doesn't get buried.

The workbench is a Ron Paulk inspired rolling bench with totally locking casters. It is 3 feet by 7 feet. I also made his crosscut jig and can accurately crosscut 3 feet on it. The top is 3/4 plywood bored with 20mm holes on 4 inch centers. This is like a Festool MFT except the Festool is comparatively tiny and much more expensive. The workbench can roll between the windows on the other long wall. An open storage cabinet at least 7 feet long will go above it. It will have dividers made of 5mm luan to organize space for the pneumatic nailers, cordless drills, and other much used stuff I like to keep in this sort of cabinet. I find when I give my tools a visible home I tend to put them in it. I use a track saw a lot and took the extension rails off the BT3100. You have more space but in a little shop, it is hard to maneuver a full sheet of plywood past the stationary table saw. 3/4 sheets are heavy regardless. I hear that it is possible to have a good setup with a slider that avoids a lot of handling but I like my track saw solution. They are surprisingly useful. I woodworked for over 30 years before getting one and wish I'd gotten it sooner. (I have a DeWalt mainly because it was about half the price of a Festool).

Don't use a DC without good filtration of it's output unless you duct it outside. It will just blow the fine dust which could hurt you up where you are more likely to breath it. My little shop vac has a HEPA filter which rarely needs cleaned because of the cyclone.

[Dean Baumgartner2]

For an "elevator" just to move materials and empty the dust collector put in a floor hatch and mount either a chain fall or an electric hoist above it. Not rated for lifting people but will work great to save on hauling materials up and down.

[Rick Fisher]

I can bump the 3/8" ply up to 1/2" .. its just backing for holding a screw.

I decided to get the blueprint out and do a shop machine layout.. I promised myself I wouldn't buy any new tools ..

[Tim Janssen]

Paint walls and ceiling white, makes a big difference and reduces shadows.
Quite a project ahead of you!
Good luck with that.

Tim

[Kevin Jenness]

Many good recommendations here. I concur with greater basement ceiling height, hatchway with hoist, thicker wall sheathing for screw holding, white walls, plenty of natural light, lots of efficient electric light, ductwork in basement, flexibility. I would put the compressor in the basement, but humping dust upstairs will get old. If you us sheet goods, the most space efficient storage setup is vertical, and a p-lam floor there helps a lot with getting sheets in and out.

A small shop near me has a machining area on the first floor and assembly/finishing upstairs. A substantial (at least 4'x8') platform on slightly inclined rails is hoisted up and down, a rudimentary elevator. The platform can be parked at the upper floor normally for safety. Obviously something like this has to be carefully engineered and may be subject to regulation, but it is something to consider.

One thing that has not been mentioned is adequate space for assembling large projects and finishing. A good exhaust fan with filters is important for spraying, explosion proof if used for solvents. Keep an eye out for a small used spray booth- you may not set up the whole thing but use parts of it. Consider air makeup. A height adjustable assembly table that is light enough to dismantle and stow or on casters can help with making space for finishing large projects.

I work in a space just slightly larger than yours with fairly heavy machinery including a 4x8 CNC router. It works, just, due to carefully worked out material paths and as many smaller machines and tool cabinets on casters as possible. If you use CAD that makes it easier to play with various layouts.

[vince dale]

For your man door use a outswing door. You'll save wall space on the inside. Also line it up perpindiculur with the miter saw bench so you can open the door to cut extra long boards.

[Mike Heidrick]

Ive never looked at my inswing doors as wasted or lost wall space :confused:

[vince dale]

Ive never looked at my inswing doors as wasted or lost wall space :confused:

If there is a wall perpindicular the closed door, the door is at the end of a wall and you have to allow room for the door to swing open into the shop, you loose 21 square ft of wall space.

[John K Jordan]

I usually design with the doors in the middle of a wall or far enough away from a corner that the space behind the wall can be used, or in once case I made the door swing away from the corner (not usual but traffic-appropriate in this case). But even if there is very little room behind the door there is usually enough space for thin things: white board, clamps, hanging templates, key rack, flashlights, binoculars, shotgun, etc.

I far prefer inswing doors for ease of entry with arms full - I use lever handles I can operate with my elbow, then push the door open.

JKJ

[Chris Padilla]

, shotgun, etc.

:eek::eek::eek:

[Shawn Pixley]

Windows. If it were me, I'd maximize the natural light.

[John K Jordan]

:eek::eek::eek:

Hey, life on the farm. You never know when a pack of wild dogs will order alpaca for supper. Smartest thing I ever did in my entire life was build the shop next to the barn!

JKJ

[Martin Wasner]

How are you heating and cooling? Mini-splits seem to be a good choice these days, but they take up wall space, and you have that nice basement. Maybe something that can make use of the basement space would be better.

A mini split can go in the ceiling as well.

[Bill Adamsen]

You mention the "proper set of stairs." I have my stairs outside and appreciate the amount of room saved inside on both the main floor and basement. I rarely find the outside trek too inconvenient. Access to both levels is quite good and I've had no issue rigging in equipment.

Since your square footage is constrained by zoning, putting stairs outdoors might save as much as 600 square foot total, since likely zoning is looking only at the footprint. Another advantage for me is, the outdoor stairs can be used when taking the compost to the garden, and getting garden produce. The outdoor stairs are used by everyone in the family. I bet your outdoor stairs could be covered with a simple roof without running too afoul of the zoning authorities with regard to square footage. Disadvantage is that weather intrudes. The stairs require shovelling and rain impacts workflow.

Other Features. I also have lots of windows, lots of light, ... all the things everyone else mentions. One idea that worked out really well ... I installed three way switches for indoor and the outdoor lights running through conduit from the house to the shop/barn. I can turn on/off some interior and the exterior lights without leaving the comfort of my house. And of course they can also be turned on or off from the shop. That is a really great feature. The size of my shop is about 24'x36', 860 feet square. Similar to, but smaller than what you're proposing.

[Jim Andrew]

About the 7' basement, the practice in most areas is to pour the floor on top of the footings, and if headroom is an issue, Trowel the footings on the inside of the building, and use an edger, then when you set up the floor, grade the sand so the top of the floor is level with the top of the footing, so you can gain about 4" in ceiling height.

[Thomas Canfield]

A 4' entry door was mentioned in one reply, but I used a double door, 2-3' doors for 6' wide opening when needed for large items on previous shop which only had access for a hand truck. I am very happy now to have an insulated garage door on my later shop, but the raised door does cause light problems, and it does not seal near as well as the previous set of double doors.

[mike mcilroy]

Not sure if it was mentioned but put a few outlets in the ceiling. I have a couple of areas in the middle of the room where I have to have extension cords for hand held machines. Router, jigsaw and orbital sander all get used in a variety of places and end up walking over the extension cord. If you have dust collection in mind adding a couple of wyes over benches for these hand held machines and the ability to add make shift hoods/ shrouds will come in handy as well. The DC suggestion is one of the few I planned for instead of finding out the hard way.

[Stew Hagerty]

Hello.

We recently sold our house and are building a new one. As part of this, I am able to build my own woodworking shop. The zoning on the lot only allows for 985sf. So .. I'm building the shop 985 sf.

I want as few regrets as possible.

So far, this is what I've arranged. The shop is excavated right now. Foundation walls on the house where poured on Friday.

(1) The shop will be 985sf .. but it has a full basement with a 7 foot ceiling height. This building is actually a 2 car garage, so the floor is engineered to be able to park 2 cars on it. My reason for going with a wooden floor are to be able to run dust collection and electrical downstairs. And to have the storage.. I will set up sharpening downstairs as well. There will be a proper set of stairs going down to the basement.

(2) I plan on sheathing the interior walls which are covered in drywall, with 3/8" Plywood first. That will mean setting all electrical boxes at 1" instead of 5/8". The reason is for backing.

(3) This shop will have its own 200 amp panel.

(4) It appears the shop is going to have an 8/12 roof, with Sizzor trusses of 5/12 inside. At 27 feet wide, and with 9' walls, that should net a centerline ceiling height of just over 14'. I plan on doing the ceilings in 1x6 T+G Pine. Walls in Drywall.

(5) The shop will have water and sewer. I plan on putting in a sink.


What I'm hoping for is tips.. For the stuff I will wish I did.

I have a phase converter and a 3 phase panel to install.


My 2 Cents...
(1) Don't put your sharpening station downstairs. You want it right next to where you will be using your planes & chisels the most. You're much more likely to give a quick hone if you don't need to run downstairs to do it.
(2) Ply under 5/8" firecode drywall is a great idea. You're covered for codes and you still have a solid backer so you can hang stuff anywhere. 3/8" versus 1/2" I don't know that it matters so much. If you're worried about rigidity, just put some construction adhesive between the ply & the drywall.
(3)Good
(4) Insulate at the roof and leave the trusses exposed. a vaulted ceiling is nice, it gives you lots more headroom. However, here is another idea. A 102" ceiling is pretty good already. You can get "attic trusses" which have a big square opening in the middle. Put some 3/4" Ply up there and even though it wouldn't be tall enough to stand up, it would give you a ton of extra storage space.
(5) Toilet & sink and you're good to go. Oh, put in a shop or laundry style sink rather than a bathroom type.

Like I said, just my 2 cents...

[Jim Becker]

I'll second the double door suggestion...I did that for my shop (which was originally a multi-vehicle garage) and it makes it a lot easier to get things in and out (big tools, material, etc) as well as provides for wonderful light and ventilation during nice weather. They open out, so they don't block anything in the shop and I have security pins on the inside to provide more, well...security...than just a dead-bolt would give.

[Rick Fisher]

Here are copies of the actual plans for the shop / garage

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Tool%20photos%20not%20mine/Shop%201_zpsao0x7roe.png (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Tool%20photos%20not%20mine/Shop%201_zpsao0x7roe.png.html)

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Tool%20photos%20not%20mine/Shop%203_zpsswdrmvms.png (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Tool%20photos%20not%20mine/Shop%203_zpsswdrmvms.png.html)
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Tool%20photos%20not%20mine/Shop%202_zpscq4tjfjy.png (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Tool%20photos%20not%20mine/Shop%202_zpscq4tjfjy.png.html)


Its actually a 7' crawl space with a proper concrete slab. Entirely underground, with 6 big posts holding up triple layer, 14" LVL beams. With 1-1/8" Edge Gold T+G flooring, its going to be sturdy. You can park 2 trucks on it ..

I got the height variance this week, so we're going ahead. The basement will be 7' now .. I'll attach some pics of the site.

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/20160216_1229411_zpsylddvvhy.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/20160216_1229411_zpsylddvvhy.jpg.html)

There is a saw horse on the left side, the shop goes on the grey to the left of that ..

As I said, I'm limited to the depth I go due to water. This excavation is very close to the ocean, and the water table is really high. Its part of living on an island. That picture is taken last week, February in Canada.

The driveway is the main part of the picture, going to the house. Its killing me.. 140 feet long, all the soil removed, replaced with 61 loads of gravel. Each load is an hour of trucking return ..

[Tom Clark FL]

Rick,

What works for one person may not be for everyone. With that in mind, here are some of the ideas used in my latest dream shop. It is similar in size to your new shop.

My tiny rest room is just on the left side of the photo.

Leave an assembly area so you have a place to work and assemble projects, surrounded by machines you use the most.

The big machines are located around my dust collectors, right next to the assembly area.

I have a small model area with lots of storage for special work.

Dump all machine stands and build cabinets with tons of storage where normally wasted space is.

Mostly drawers below waist height.

Home made shop cabinets triple the apparent size of your shop.

Shop cabinets do not all have to be on wheels. I use plastic feet so they can be slid around now and then. You will want to rearrange things now and then.

I built double doors 6' wide going into the attached garage for easy in and out.

Good luck and enjoy your new shop.

[Mike Heidrick]

Man Rick. Awesome pics and plans. Great job.

Tom! Amazing looking space. Thank you for sharing that.

[Rick Fisher]

Tom, thanks so much for the pics. I got a great idea from you, using the same outfeed table for 2 tools.

My old space was about 500sf .. So while I will have almost twice the room, I want to be as efficient as possible, and actually have space left over ..

What is that big band saw you have in the background, it looks older ?

The sheer mass of drawers in your shop is inspiring ..

[Rick Fisher]

I have an idea that I can make a disc which I can screw to the floor, then router around it and cut a 6-1/4" hole for dust. I can easily make another disc exactly 6 1/4" around and use it to patch the same hole should I ever decide to move a machine..

[Tom Clark FL]

What is that big band saw you have in the background, it looks older ?
The sheer mass of drawers in your shop is inspiring ..

The bandsaw is a 20" Woodtech from around 1990. Grizzly has very similar machines. It has been a great tool. I made the oversize table to support large parts I made for my telescopes.
Drawers are the most efficient storage for most tools, and keeps what you need right at your fingertips.

[mreza Salav]

Rick, congratulations! it's a journey that I finished (building a new house/shop) not too long ago.
I didn't know you can have basements on the west coast. One advice I give is do not fix the location of your machines yet as it will almost surely change when you actually move them.
For that reason I decided to do all my electrical for them on the surface (3/4" EMT). One thing I didn't do and I kinda regret was to do something about the floor (bare concrete).
I already have oil, stain, glue, and other things over it and it's not looking new anymore. I considered epoxy and studied different options but didn't do any of them. I don't have a specific suggestion but I wouldn't leave bare concrete.

[Rick Fisher]

Progress is finally being made...

Yes you can have basements on the Island, but its not as simply as you land lubbers find it .. This shop is quite close to the ocean, so way more went into the height than I thought would be needed to get this basement. I ended up settling for 7'6" of head room in the basement. The floor ( slab ) is 18" above the water-table. There is a rock pit with a pump that will step in should there be times when the water is going to become an issue.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/20160307_171611_zpsmnje6chh.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/20160307_171611_zpsmnje6chh.jpg.html)

The foundation has a steps at each corner. However, the concrete walls will be 7'6 - 8'6 high .. The first 30" of floor ( coming through the garage door is going to be concrete.. Then it switches to a wooden joist floor. As such, the foundation has an add-on .. its a 2 part pour. Its hard to explain but the second set of walls are only 30" high .. on compacted gravel .

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/20160308_163707_zpsxar9kddp.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/20160308_163707_zpsxar9kddp.jpg.html)

Those 6 pads are actually huge. compare to the 1000 lb plate.. They are the footings for the 6 posts that hold up the beams that hold up the floor.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Workshop%20_zpsrbxdl2ly.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Workshop%20_zpsrbxdl2ly.jpg.html)

The forms are standing .. first wall pour is wed. Then they backfill to 30" from the top .. and form up the second set of walls.

The electrical drops are in .. ( underground ) .. I'm putting a 400 amp panel in which will feed a 200 amp panel to the house. ( which is 20 feet away ). .

[Rick Fisher]

The garage door will come down on concrete slab. The slab will enter the garage for 30 " .. this is due to living in a such a wet and rainy climate.

I was going to put actual flooring in .. but I'm seriously thinking of painting the floor sheathing with Elastomeric Paint. ( like stretch deck coating ) .. I dunno ..

All the electrical for the machines will run through the floor. I will drill a 1" hole, take the plug off the cord .. run it through.. and then put the plug back on and plug the machine in .. If I move the machine, I simply move the cord, patch the old 1" hole and drill another.

[Rick Fisher]

Shop progress.

The Roof is on. The Ceiling height is 13'6 at the peak. The shop has 7 windows and 2 doors..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Dungeon%203_zpstiafzhxb.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Dungeon%203_zpstiafzhxb.jpg.html)

That is the inside.. 3 windows on that wall .. Shingles start in 3 days..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Dungeon%204_zpsrol6d1mn.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Dungeon%204_zpsrol6d1mn.jpg.html)

As I posted before, the floor where I will work on is 2x10x12" OC, with 1-1/8" Edge Gold Floor sheathing. Its extremely rigid ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Dungeon%202_zpsa40zg8pi.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Dungeon%202_zpsa40zg8pi.jpg.html)

Don't mind the Mess.. This is the dungeon. It turned out 7'6" high .. Its purpose is to run electrical, plumbing, and Compressed air. And of course storage.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Dungeon%201_zps7407fsoc.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Dungeon%201_zps7407fsoc.jpg.html)

The water is from a recent rainfall.. The 2x10 Floor joist are as I said 12" OC .. ( 10.5 " Between joist ) .. and the spans are 9 feet or less. the floor sheathing is glued and screwed. and the joist attach to these 2 ply 14" LVL beams which are supported by 6x6 posts..

Its engineered to hold cars like a parking structure..

[Rick Fisher]

That basement really is just a tall crawl space. It has a 4" Concrete slab, but its not warm and fuzzy space. The pipes sticking through the concrete are sewer and water..
There is a sharpening station going in .. basically a bar sink for water stones.

[Jim Becker]

Great progress, Rick. That's going to be a wonderful shop when completed!

While that floor is already very sturdy, are you going to put anything over the thick sheathing, such as hardwood for a wear/"look" layer, just paint it, etc.?

[Rick Fisher]

Hey Jim .. I'm looking at flooring now .. Thinking of a commercial vinyl or epoxy.. I dunno .. I save a whack of scraps to make plugs so if I move a machine, I can patch the holes for the ducting etc..

Electrical today :)

[mark mcfarlane]

Hey Jim .. I'm looking at flooring now .. Thinking of a commercial vinyl or epoxy.. I dunno .. I save a whack of scraps to make plugs so if I move a machine, I can patch the holes for the ducting etc..

Electrical today :)

I'm anxious to hear about your flooring decision, please do share when you come to a conclusion.

[Mike Heidrick]

Put in antennas in trusses - Ill be adding a couple to mine soon.

[Jim Becker]

Almost nothing beats a wood floor in a woodshop... :D

[Rick Fisher]

The floor is thick, and heavy .. but its soft because its wood. Its so nice to walk on .. The Engineer inspected it today and made the framers do a few things.. We plopped a 3000 lb lift of OSB on the floor during framing .. it was irrelevant. I ordered a new slider ( stealth gloat ) .. Its about the same weight .. so I figure I'm okay ..

[Rick Fisher]

On the flooring .. I am really leaning towards " Loose Lay Vinyl Plank " .. its a heavy Vinyl plank that has no locking mechanism. I plan to drill 6" holes in the shop floor for Dust, and 1" holes for electrical .. if I move a machine, I can simply patch the holes, and replace the Vinyl plank .. You lift it up with a plunger.. Its quite heavy ..

http://www.homeflooringpros.com/blog-guides/loose-lay-vinyl-plank-flooring/

[Mike Heidrick]

Rick you private message inbox is full. You need to contribute the $6 and double that space :) .

[Jim Becker]

Rick, my one concern with the vinyl product is the potential for slipperiness when there's any kind of dust about. Be sure that the surface design you select accounts for that important safety factor. Regardless of the ultimate flooring choice, you may still want to put anti-fatigue matts down...that's made a world of difference in my shop.

[mike mcilroy]

+1 for the ant-fatigue mats.
I didn't need them not too long ago and now can't live without them. Old man's back! Another bonus is when you drop a chisel or knife the edge survives more often.

[Rick Fisher]

Rick, my one concern with the vinyl product is the potential for slipperiness when there's any kind of dust about. Be sure that the surface design you select accounts for that important safety factor. Regardless of the ultimate flooring choice, you may still want to put anti-fatigue matts down...that's made a world of difference in my shop.

I hadn't thought of it with dust. I should do that.

[Jim Becker]

I hadn't thought of it with dust. I should do that.

Yes, this can be a significant issue in a woodworking shop that needs to be accounted for. Even wood floors shouldn't be made "slick" with a finish for the same reason.

[Rick Fisher]

This is the flooring ..

There are a few brands and a few colors.. I need to check it for slip, but wanted to post anyway..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/20160514_132737_zpsvpkhitax.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/20160514_132737_zpsvpkhitax.jpg.html)

Its a flexible vinyl product which simply sits beside its neighbor ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/20160514_132753_zpsuqgx9jza.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/20160514_132753_zpsuqgx9jza.jpg.html)

In this shop, I can drill a hole in it for dust and wire, or air.. and then if I move the machine, I can simply pull up the damaged piece and replace it without any fuss. Other than slipping, I think its a great idea.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Screenshot_2016-05-14-21-52-58_zpsw6r7ssrc.png (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Screenshot_2016-05-14-21-52-58_zpsw6r7ssrc.png.html)


Above is one of my choices, sitting on the 1-1/8" OSB floor. I expect that putting 1/2 ton and 1 ton machines on this product is probably going to void the warranty, but I want to try it .. Water won't harm it.

On the slippery part, its not a slick floor, but I need to figure that out.. I wanted something I could sweep easily.. without of course being dangerous. I also want it to reflect light, and not cause looking for things I dropped to be hard to find.

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/13282063_10154265094348281_703831127_n_zps7eehresy .jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/13282063_10154265094348281_703831127_n_zps7eehresy .jpg.html)

Spent tonight nailing up 1/2" Standard sheathing before we drywall .. The main wall will be 1/2 plywood under drywall. This will make clamp racks and shelves easy .. cabinets.. etc.. not needed but I wanted to try it .. I also ran 1/2" copper up the wall behind the plywood and into the ceiling for drop down compressed air over the benches ..

[John K Jordan]

.. The main wall will be 1/2 plywood under drywall. This will make clamp racks and shelves easy .. cabinets.. etc.. not needed but I wanted to try it .. I also ran 1/2" copper up the wall behind the plywood and into the ceiling for drop down compressed air over the benches ..

The ply/sheathing will add a bit of sound and temperature insulation. and add strength and rigidity to the building.

I ran compressed air all through my shop and to the outside and it has been SO useful. I put in three separate lines on valves in case I needed to isolate one leg for some reason.

JKJ

[Rick Fisher]

Great advice on the valves .. I am using 3/4" Copper off the compressor .. The overhead line is just for benches so it drops down to 1/2".. It will run Sanders and staplers.
I have a Kreg Pneumatic Machine that hogs air. I plan to run a 3/4" Line direct to that machine.. I have a 4 gallon tank near it as well. I really should map it out and separate it with valves.

I just started installing pneumatic lines and most are in the floor, so I will ensure they are distinct enough to be separate .

Thanks

[John K Jordan]

This is a long thread so I apologize if this has been mentioned before: I learned two things about air when researching.

One, put the dryers/water separators far enough away from the compressor so the moisture can condense as the hot air cools, otherwise it will just pass through the separator. Some sources recommend at least 20' of pipe, sloped downward if possible, with a gravity trap with a drain valve. I made the traps with a vertical length of tubing.

The second advice I read too late for me to use: instead of running a dead-end line install the air line in a loop around the shop. This will allow a tool that really sucks to pull air from two directions.

JKJ

[Rick Fisher]

That 2 direction idea is gold ..

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Shop%20Floor%201_zps3swekynp.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Shop%20Floor%201_zps3swekynp.jpg.html)

Installing drop in place rubberish flooring ..

This is good stuff .. not as slippery as concrete, but will be easy to sweep

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Shop%20lightings_zps833ykvec.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Shop%20lightings_zps833ykvec.jpg.html)

Lighting went in a few days ago . Really effective .. the 2 tube fixtures on the right are where the future bench will be

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Electrical%20ready%20to%20wire_zpsvxbxsvok.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Electrical%20ready%20to%20wire_zpsvxbxsvok.jpg.htm l)


200 amp panel running 100 amps to PP-20 .. to 100 amp PH-3 panel .. which will have 55 amps of 230V PH-3 ..

There will be 5 machines running off the 3 phase panel. All the wiring is under the floor for those machine.

[Robin Frierson]

I once had a dream shop but lost it in a divorce. Thing I miss most was this overhead I beam . I could back my truck in under it and use a chain hoist to pick anything up I want. I could unload a 16 inch joiner by myself. And then I had a pallet jack to move everything around. I had no mobile basis. I just use the pallet jack. But I had a lot of space, 2200 ft.

So I had no shop for 5 1/2 yrs. and now I have a 480 sq ft two bay garage. So a big challenge working in such a small space but I'm grateful to have a shop again. There is a spare bedroom behind one of my shop walls. My plan is to knock out that wall and steal that bedroom for additional space. Though it's going to take some convincing to my second wife.

[Mike Heidrick]

Gantry crane is on my list too. I want freestanding one though. I do the pallet jack now as well. I love custom size bases.

Elec looks sweet Rick!

[Peter Aeschliman]

Looks awesome, Rick! Congrats! You're getting awfully close!!

[Mike Heidrick]

I should have shown you the Liftmaster 8500 jackshaft garage door openers. Soo much cleaner install.

[Rick Fisher]

Mike .. you should have .. lol ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Mini%20Max%2024_zps5c3ny6as.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Mini%20Max%2024_zps5c3ny6as.jpg.html)


Bandsaw showed up today .. That guy in the background is my buddy who helped me get it inside. Kudo's to SCM - Mini Max. Fit and finish of this machine is outstanding so far ..

[Mike Heidrick]

SAWEEETTT!

And now we see how this floor works out!

Did they improve how easy it is to put on the table? I hated doing that on my MM20 when I moved it!!

[mark mcfarlane]

Mike .. you should have .. lol ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Mini%20Max%2024_zps5c3ny6as.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Mini%20Max%2024_zps5c3ny6as.jpg.html)


Bandsaw showed up today .. That guy in the background is my buddy who helped me get it inside. Kudo's to SCM - Mini Max. Fit and finish of this machine is outstanding so far ..

And you got about 12' of slat wall to decorate your shop :)

[Rick Fisher]

SAWEEETTT!

And now we see how this floor works out!

Did they improve how easy it is to put on the table? I hated doing that on my MM20 when I moved it!!

I have a 1989 SCM 600 . The MM-24 would be the same saw but 27 years later. I would say they improved how the table goes on compared to 1989..

The new saw is gonna have a 3/8" Blade installed for General Purpose work. Old saw with a 1" x 3TPI blade for resawing .

[Mike Heidrick]

I have a 1989 SCM 600 . The MM-24 would be the same saw but 27 years later. I would say they improved how the table goes on compared to 1989..

The new saw is gonna have a 3/8" Blade installed for General Purpose work. Old saw with a 1" x 3TPI blade for resawing .

Yes sir you know the tools dreams are made of for sure.

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Shop%20Progress%20_zps0ti88qnk.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Shop%20Progress%20_zps0ti88qnk.jpg.html)

Dust collection system .. one machine is collected from above.. Sander ..

the rest are underneath .. hidden ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Ducting%20_zpswdualzzl.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Ducting%20_zpswdualzzl.jpg.html)

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Electrical%202%20_zpsywecfjwo.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Electrical%202%20_zpsywecfjwo.jpg.html)

Dust collection and electrical connection runs into the floor at the machine, this is to avoid a trip hazard, and to avoid overhead pipes and wires as much as possible.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Electrical%201%20_zpsl8ycszip.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Electrical%201%20_zpsl8ycszip.jpg.html)

The 6" Blast gate is downstairs, so its pneumatically activated through a switch which is upstairs.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Electrical%203%20_zps8vptl4ep.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Electrical%203%20_zps8vptl4ep.jpg.html)

Each machine which is not up against a wall has a plug and a receptacle .. If I move the machine, I move the plug and the receptacle. It means removing the plug, and fixing the existing hole, then drilling a new hole and reinstalling the plug.. but its clean.. There is excess Tec cable on each receptacle for future movement, but honestly I hope not to move these machines.

[Mike Heidrick]

Awesome as always Rick!! I doubt you ever move them at this point with as much planning as you have done.

Did you say you were using that basement too to work in? Are the overhead facilities an issue there?

[Jim Becker]

I feel compelled to mention that I personally wouldn't be comfortable with the machine power cord penetrating the floor like that...particularly because you have no quick disconnect at the machine. You have to go downstairs to remove power outside of hitting the breaker. I prefer a disconnect "at" the machine for a complete and visible break in the power path. But that's me. I'd also be concerned with the cord penetrating the floor in a way that you cannot pull the plug through. But if it works for you and doesn't violate code, no matter...

The dust collection setup looks great! It's really nice that you can run it under the floor like that and have a much "cleaner" workshop environment.

[Robert Payne]

I agree with Jim Becker -- I also have dust collection coming up from under my shop floor from a tall dry crawl space -- I installed floor electrical outlets for my 240 VAC tools that feature 3-wire twist lock receptacles for easy disconnection when changing setups on the machines - lots safer that way. I placed the floor outlets where they won't be in traffic areas to avoid tripping hazards and have 10 years of positive usage.

[Frank Pratt]

Jim and Robert have listed some of the practical reasons to not have the cord going through the floor. I will add that it is a serious code violation to do that. It will be easy enough to run that armored cable up through the floor & mount the receptacle on the floor.

Other than that, the shop is looking great.

[Rick Fisher]

I appreciate the feedback .. I may have to move the receptacles up above the floor. One of the machines will be hard wired now, so there will be no break in the line. There is a disconnect for all the machines on the main floor of the shop, so to disconnect power, no need to go into the basement.

I'm going to talk to the local inspector and see about the SOW cord, but I believe I will be changing to Tec cable through the floor.

[Frank Pratt]

Teck cable is fine to go through the floor, SOW is not. Just make sure you do it so the cable isn't subject to mechanical damage from being stepped on or hitting it with machines & stuff.

[Rick Fisher]

I'm swapping over to Teck cable. Thanks for pointing that out .. It makes sense as well.

[Mike Heidrick]

I might be interested in some of the lengths of 10 SJO you cut if you unload some depending on their length.

[Johanna Johanson]

One thought about a toilet - there are toilet options such as composting, incinerating, and chemical. Those do not need a connection to a sewer/septic system. We use a little chemical toilet that we originally bought for camping.

[Rick Fisher]

The shop has a sink for sharpening etc.. but its literally 20 feet from the house so I opted not to put a bathroom in .. The upstairs is 968sf .. and I didn't want to give up the space.

The downstairs is below the sewer line, its about 800 sf .. basically a bunker / basement.

[Keith Outten]

Just a thought about the 6 by 6 wooden supports in your basement. I had two of them in my shop and over 20 years they degraded (multiple splits) to the point that I had to replace one of them and I will be replacing the second one shortly. I replaced the first one with a 6" diameter schedule 40 steel pipe and welded 1/4" thick steel pate to the top and bottom of the pipe to spread out the load. I have a second floor apartment that I use as a shop office, the load on the wooden posts was way more weight than I had expected. I tried to use my light weight auto floor jack to take the weight off of the first post and it did not have the lifting capacity. Fortunately I own a very large heavy duty floor jack that was up to the task but it was difficult to say the least.

After my experience I doubt I would want wooden posts to support a floor that is designed to hold the weight of an auto mobile.

[John K Jordan]

I tried to use my light weight auto floor jack to take the weight off of the first post and it did not have the lifting capacity. Fortunately I own a very large heavy duty floor jack that was up to the task but it was difficult to say the least.

For future reference, a cheap 20-30 ton bottle jack will work. I use a steel plate against any structural wood, put a piece of 2x12 on the concrete, and lift with a steel pipe. I used this method on my 80-year-old 2-story barn to jack up a support post that had sunk 6" into the ground. I replaced it with a concrete footer and a heavy-wall piece of 4" steel square tubing with plates welded on both ends.

JKJ

[Rick Fisher]

I will keep an eye of the posts. There are 8 of them in total. The whole floor was designed by an engineer. The posts are treated and the basement is dry, but i will still keep an eye. I really love the wooden floor. Its so much nicer to walk on than concrete. I started installing blast gates under the floor and can just tell I will love having as much as possible hidden underneath.

Also love the storage. I have all sorts of cable, ducting, and " stuff " already.. Don't want to throw it out .. don't want it in the shop. As mentioned I have a new table saw coming in about 2 months and will need to run more ducting to accommodate.. Its nice to have the space to warehouse it until needed.

[John K Jordan]

...love having as much as possible hidden underneath.


I like that too. I put my 6" DC duct work (at great effort!) in the roof trusses above the ceiling. This cleared up a great deal of wall space for shelving and hanging things as well as needed headroom with 9' ceilings. Not so good for rearranging equipment in the future but I'm hoping my months of pre-planning will be sufficient.

Another real advantage of hidden ducting is something inevitable although we might not want to think about with our new shops (I'm getting older by the minute) - the next person who uses the shop may do stained glass or pottery or weaving and might not need the dust collector!

With the duct work hidden the space can be reconfigured without ripping out the ducting in the main shop. The ease of reconfiguring might actually be a selling point when the time comes. Part of my own justification for building a new shop was not that the resale value for the property might be higher, but the building might tip a buyer towards my property over another.

I also love your storage space. My shop is 24x62 which I hoped would be enough but even my wood storage is still spread out between several other buildings and the barn.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I started installing blast gates under the floor and can just tell I will love having as much as possible hidden underneath.
So you have to go downstairs to operate a blast gate? Is that practical? ;)

[Trevor Howard]

The 6" Blast gate is downstairs, so its pneumatically activated through a switch which is upstairs.

^^^^ You must have overlooked this Jim

[Jim Becker]

^^^^ You must have overlooked this Jim

Yes, I absolutely didn't see that comment. Sorry to Rick!

[Robin Frierson]

"Part of my own justification for building a new shop was not that the resale value for the property might be higher, but the building might tip a buyer towards my property over another."

Its hard to believe, but I found the opposite to be true. I built a big shop in the rear of a 1.5acre homesite, built it on an old basketball court. And we found most people didnt need a big building like that...2200 sq ft. Realtor reported people loved the house but didnt know what to think about that big building in the back. Took two years to sell the house. A chiropractor finally bought the house...he collected cars and was going to use the building for storing and working on cars.

[John K Jordan]

Its hard to believe, but I found the opposite to be true. I built a big shop in the rear of a 1.5acre homesite, built it on an old basketball court. And we found most people didnt need a big building like that...2200 sq ft. Realtor reported people loved the house but didnt know what to think about that big building in the back. Took two years to sell the house. A chiropractor finally bought the house...he collected cars and was going to use the building for storing and working on cars.

Yes, I can believe that. Circumstance and location can make a huge difference. I'm sure my Lovely Bride would have vetoed buying a place with a big outbuilding on a small lot. I'm glad you finally found the perfect buyer!!

I'm not worried much about that with the circumstances here since there always seem to be people looking for developed farm land, especially for horse farms. We have 27 acres with pastures, barns, outbuildings, good fencing, poultry houses, etc., and keep horses, llamas, alpacas, mini donkeys, peacocks, guineas, chickens, honeybees. You can believe this: with an active farm you can NEVER have too many buildings!

An important point: I built the shop down the hill through the woods and near the barn, barn yard, peacock house, dry lots, and smaller pastures - this keeps all the "farm" stuff out of sight. From the house we see are the horses in the big field and the deer and the hawks and the sky. Visitors to the house don't even know we have the rest unless we walk down to see the animals. A realtor friend said the barn yard and shop out of view away from the house would be a selling point.

JKJ

[Robin Frierson]

Yes your situation is completely different John. Anybody wanting to buy a big spread like yours would welcome an additional building. Sounds like a wonderful place where you live.

Before I built my shop I considered buying a building about 3 miles from my house. It would've been perfect for a shop. It was a metal building even had a little small dock. I just didn't want to be 3 miles from my shop. But had I done that I think I could've actually made money on that building Instead of losing money on the shop at my house.. And sold the house a lot quicker. It's just we all want to be close to our shops..

[Deb Malloy]

Sounds like a dream location. Post some pics of the "farm" if possible. Of course we want to see shop photos when its finished.

[John K Jordan]

...It's just we all want to be close to our shops..

Absolutely! The ideal shop would be attached to the house by an enclosed walkway! I almost built my shop within 50 ft of the house - I even excavated for a basement and had a complete set of plans engineered and drawn up by an architect friend. Part of it would have been underground from the view of the house and I would have kept the "look" consistent with the house. However, building by the barn was the best thing ever for me since when I'm at the shop I'm right there for feeding and checking on the animals instead of walking down the hill. But it's less than 300 ft walk through the woods and I use a little 4wd utility truck when it's pouring rain or freezing cold! Life is good.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

Sounds like a dream location. Post some pics of the "farm" if possible. Of course we want to see shop photos when its finished.
Oh no, you said the magic word: "pics." My apologies if this looks like an attempt to hijack this great thread but I love pics and since you asked:

Some views from the house (and the house);

341028 341026 341025 341027 341029

My wife searched for over 5 years for this spot. The guy trying to sell it refused to clean it up first and no one made an offer in a year so we got it for a song. I tell people the Good Lord was saving it for us!

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

And some from the "farm and shop" area:

341030 341031 341032
341033 341034 341035




and the shop itself (almost done), back side facing field:

341037 341036

Come visit! Take a llama for a walk!

JKJ

[Deb Malloy]

What a beautiful piece of property. Love, love the animals. What an awesome place to live.

[Stew Hagerty]

So this is before & after. You mean before and after you stopped feeding it? LOL

341077

[Rick Fisher]

What a great property John. I love the farm part. Love the pics too :)

Yeah.. the blast gates are pneumatic. I've run 1/2" Nylon tube throughout the basement. I simply cut the line .. insert a tee, and run an air line to a gate.

Its really simple..

I built the blast gates by adapting Lee Valley self cleaning gates to pneumatic. I bought the pistons on Ali - Express for about $10.00 each .. I was worried they where too small, at 35 lbs. they slam the gates shut and open. I'm reducing the speed soon with flow control valves ..

[Rick Fisher]

This is the sharpening station. it will have a sink, bar fridge, and a 2" thick wooden counter top .. There will be shelves between the upper cabinets that will completely hide the seams in the checker plate. The seams are in specific spots.

I have a Tormek and a bunch of Japanese Water Stones .. all that type of thing will be in this area.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/sharpening%20station_zps1ibirear.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/sharpening%20station_zps1ibirear.jpg.html)


To the left is the Dust Collector. Up against that wall will be its permanent home. I also did the kick plates in Scraps of checker plate. I attached the Checker plate with PL-Premium .. it was dead simple, the adhesive acted like a suction cup ... Cutting the checker plate on the table saw was nasty.. I wore a turning mask and it sounded like rain on a tin roof. Aluminum may cut nice but the chips suck.. lol

[mark mcfarlane]

...

I have a Tormek and a bunch of Japanese Water Stones .. all that type of thing will be in this area.

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/sharpening%20station_zps1ibirear.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/sharpening%20station_zps1ibirear.jpg.html)



Isn't it illegal to use pre-built cabinets in a shop ?

[John K Jordan]

Isn't it illegal to use pre-built cabinets in a shop ?

Yikes, I hope not or I'm in trouble too. :)

I found old used cabinets at a salvage place and bought some used steel cabinets. Time is limited - I had to decide between working more on the shop or in the shop. Don't tell anybody!

JKJ

[mark mcfarlane]

Yikes, I hope not or I'm in trouble too. :)

I found old used cabinets at a salvage place and bought some used steel cabinets. Time is limited - I had to decide between working more on the shop or in the shop. Don't tell anybody!

JKJ
:), Sorry I couldn't help myself.

I am building a new shop from scratch over the Winter, after I retire in October, and I keep struggling with 'do I just go buy a really nice workbench and some of the cabinets and get on with other projects', or 'do I build everything from scratch'. I have a hunch, in 5 years I will wish I had built everything myself as I start to run out of other interesting projects, and money,... so I'll probably bootstrap the shop from a pair of sawhorses: build a cutting/assembly table, build a cabinet for the sink and finishing goods, and go from there.

I'll start building shop furniture on the back porch with my tracksaw and jigsaw whilst shop construction proceeds (est. 6 months). By the time I have a completed building ready for the big slider I may not need a big slider any more... (Don't worry Erik, worse case is a shorter one).

[Rick Fisher]

Haha.. it should be ..

My entire shop is coming out of storage.. I used prebuilt cabinets because I couldn't stand to have everything on the floor or shelves or whatever .. Kinda a chicken / egg thing ..

[Rick Fisher]

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/Mitersaw%20work%20station_zpsa23gkkcd.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/Mitersaw%20work%20station_zpsa23gkkcd.jpg.html)

Above is the cutting bench .. I had a Kreg flip stop system in a box which I never used so I installed it .. Seems okay .. This part is far from done, I see I need to screw the cabinets together at the top (uppers) .. There is a hand tool rack going on the wall at the left and a clamp rack on the right .. after some cube shelves ..

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m455/jokerbird_photo/sharpening%20station_zpsnpcrakcu.jpg (http://s335.photobucket.com/user/jokerbird_photo/media/sharpening%20station_zpsnpcrakcu.jpg.html)

This is the sharpening station.. it will have a sink and tap soon .. the counter top is LVL beam turned on edge and laminated.. IF there is ever a nuke, Im gonna hide under that counter top.. Its crazy strong. I am using that LVL beam look in many places in the shop ..

Still needs handles .. ugh ..

[John K Jordan]

That's an interesting idea using LVL beam for a work surface! I may steal it.

For fastening cabinets together I use long drywall type screws sideways through the face frame while clamped tight. I don't know how others do it but it worked for me.

JKJ

[Rick Fisher]

John..

I am in the lumberyard business.. LVL Beams are bought in 60' lengths.. we add about 7% to our cost in the computer, because when you cut an 18, 2/10 and a 16 ... you end up with this useless 6' length left over..

So its not uncommon for lumberyards and truss plants to wind up with lots of 3', 4' thru maybe 8' or LVL beam laying around..

In construction they are worthless.. They become pads for crane trucks, and get sold for half or less of cost, to farmers etc.

So I got a whole raft of 14" and 16" beam for $2.00 - $3.00 per foot. The stuff is 1-3/4" wide.. I rip it down to 3" wide and run it through the planer on each side.. then glue it together. Its cheap, fast and ridiculously strong..

It is however really hard on your blades.. The adhesive in that stuff is unbelievable ..

I'm doing a second bench .. smaller.. about 25" x 60" .. it will be 3" LVL .. with LVL legs and LVL cross supports..

At 3" thick for a bench top, you could park a car on it .. That bench top will cost me about $ 60.00 .. and it will probably last forever ..

You gotta go into the plant and ask for shorts. Offer 1/3 to 1/2 of retail .. if they have a big pile, they will be glad to see ya .

[Rick Fisher]

Oh .. the shelves above the bench top are 1-1/8" thick .. with a big round over. the round over gives them a thinner look, but they are beefy.. I attached them with 3" wood screws and pocket screws from the other direction.

They are super strong.