veneer work and other questions

[Adam Augustine]

I have a few questions and if you have any information that you think would help I would appreciate it.

I have done some marquetry work and one of the things that I find frustrating is removing the veneer tape. I have tried sanding it off but with the veneer being so thin it is very easy to sand through it. I have also tried warm water and peeling it off. This helps some but I have found that the tape is sometimes pressed into the pores of the veneer. When this happens I have to sand deeper to get the tape off. Do I need to use thicker veneer. If so where can I get it. Right now I am using veneer that is about a 1/40 of an inch thick. I f thicker veneer is the answer then where can I buy it?

Is there a website that is reasonable on lumber prices, exotic and domestic? I am in the Chicago land area and the only place that I've found to buy exotic wood is Owl hardwood, but they are expensive.

[william watts]

I use a cabinet scraper to remove veneer tape. Sometimes a little water water helps, to much causes the tapes glue to seep into the wood pores. That's not a fatal problem, just a little extra sanding. It never done marquetry only straight work for door panels, table tops, frame and panel cabinets.

Bill

[John Sincerbeaux]

Adam,
i feel your pain. I have been doing marquetry for over ten years now. I learned from Paul Schurch. His methods are centered around veneer tape. He puts veneer tape on everything! After his panels are finally assembled he actually takes a belt sander to scuff up the veneer tape prior to flooding the panel with water to dissolve the advessive of the tape. I have destroyed many panels with EITHER the belt sander or the water. I am always trying new methods in Marquetry. I pretty much never use veneer tape now. I use a combo of blue painter's tape and use plastic clear laminate (like for laminating pages) for the show face(top side). After I press the panel, I simply peel off the laminate sheet. No belt sander and no water. I go as far to doing all my wood work around the panel to include routing in and setting a border prior to ever touching the veneer. So the first time my marquetry gets sanded is the last. I don't have many burn thru's anymore, but my heart always starts racing the minute I put a sander to marquetry.
Last note on water... In my opinion, it just puts way too much stress on your glue bond. And burled woods really hate water.
Which glue to use and the balancing act between too much and too little has been another decade long journey.

To to view my marquetry...
Sincerbeaux.com

[Kevin Jenness]

John,

Your work is very fine. Can you give a link to or description of the specific clear laminate you use? It sounds worth trying.

Removing tape is always a pain- blue tape can pull fibers with it (heat gun can help) or leave some solvent in the grain, clear packing tape the same, and veneer tape can leave a ghost or require so much sanding to get rid of the glue that one risks sanding through today's super thin veneers. I use a zigzag stitcher for simple joints, but that has its own issues and is not the tool for marquetry. I have had decent results with easy release painter's tape, but will try anything.

Shop made thick veneer helps solve the sanding problem, but commercial veneer offers many options that are hard to find in solid wood (the best logs go to the veneer mills). I have bought 1/16" veneer from Certainly Wood but the species available are limited. Commercial veneers usually come through at about .022"-.025"- not much to it!

[Mike Henderson]

I use veneer tape on my marquetry and remove it with water and never had any problems. If you think the glue (actually hide glue) is in the pores of the wood, take a brass bristle brush and scrub the wet wood after you remove the tape.

I took classes from Paul Schurch, also, and watched him use a belt sander to remove veneer tape. But, for me, no chance. I put too much work into the panel by the time I need to remove the veneer tape, and a belt sander can do a lot of damage in a short time. I stick with water and just peeling the tape off, maybe with the help of a scraper.

Mike

[Al Launier]

I have no experience with marquetry, but i wonder if heat, as from a hair dryer would also remove the adhesive residue while pulling the tape off

[Adam Augustine]

John thank you for your input. I have taught myself marquetry by watching Paul Schurch, Silas Kopf and Marc Adams videos. The glue that I have used with decent success is Titebond Cold Press Veneer Glue. One other question. How do you cut your marquetry?

[Bryan Cramer]

I just scrape it off with a card scraper for regular seams with the grain, but when the grain is constantly changing direction that doesn't work to well so I sand it off. I end up mostly covering the surface so sanding works fine because the layer of paper is even making it easy to tell when it is gone. An even layer prevents sanding through in some spots that don't have the tape covering them.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Kevin, I use Avery self adhesive sheets from Office Depot. I have bought them from kinko's too. They are not perfect as sometimes when you pull off the sheets after your glue-up/press, it leaves an adhesive residue. But that sands off easily w my RO sander.
I have always cut my Marquetry with a dewalt scroll saw and I use a #4 or #8 blade.
I have tried every glue possible and am now using good ol titebond 2 PVA. Any glue line failures have been do to glue starvation. I always use a min of glue cuz I hate when glue comes up thru the gaps which for me is unappealing.
My other decade long quest in marquetry is to end up with my box tops to be perfect high gloss lacquer finishes. This requires perfectly filled gapes and pores. To fill gaps (permanently) I use epoxy. Usually 4-5 coats, 24 hours between each coat. I squeegee each coat with a credit card -like card. I have been recently been experimenting w water based clear pore fillers like Aqua Clear, but I'm not too thrilled with it.
I have remained friend w Paul Schurch thru all these years and it turns out he too is always experimenting with different glues and finishes. He has been working with thicker wood as of late.

[Jeffrey Martel]

I usually take off as much as I can with water, and then sand the rest off with a ROS. What grit are you using? I think I usually start at 150 grit so it doesn't sand through as quickly. Glue up with hot hide glue so it can be reversible if needed.

[richard poitras]

One other question. How do you cut your marquetry?

As far as how to cut Marquetry check out the American School of French Marquetry
With Patric Edwards. He cuts using a tool called a chevalet.

[Mike Henderson]

To my mind, the chevalet is the non-electric (manually powered) equivalent of a scroll saw. Physically big and expensive. Takes some time to learn how to use it, also. Unless you really want to go in that direction, I would certainly recommend a modern powered scroll saw.

There might be some things that the chevalet can do that a scroll saw can't but I don't know what they are.

Mike

[John Sincerbeaux]

I'm with you Mike. While I would love to learn more techniques in Marquetry, I have no desire to learn how to cut using a Chevalet. However, their marquetry is as good as it gets.

[Mike Henderson]

I'm with you Mike. While I would love to learn more techniques in Marquetry, I have no desire to learn how to cut using a Chevalet. However, their marquetry is as good as it gets.
I went and looked at your work, John. You do some excellent work - it looks like you have some real artistic talent - which I'm sadly lacking.

Mike

[richard poitras]

To my mind, the chevalet is the non-electric (manually powered) equivalent of a scroll saw. Physically big and expensive. Takes some time to learn how to use it, also. Unless you really want to go in that direction, I would certainly recommend a modern powered scroll saw.

There might be some things that the chevalet can do that a scroll saw can't but I don't know what they are.

Mike

Mike here’s my take. I agree somewhat that a chevalet is basically a manually powered equivalent of a scroll saw except you don’t have to cut on an angle to put the marquetry together (double bevel cuts) and you get a very tight seems if you are packet cutting and being it is manually you have more control of the cutting process and can just ease into a cut and you can cut smaller pieces easier and not possibly power threw or over cut the line in your pattern due to how slow and how much control you have.
One thing I think about a scroll saw is that a scroll saw defiantly cuts faster and if you are good with a scroll saw you can make the pieces/project faster. Also you are defiantly right a chevalet can take up a fair amount of space in the shop as a scroll saw is a lot smaller. Also a scroll saw can be used for other applications besides marquetry in the shop. Cost wise if you make a chevalet yourself and get parts off the shelf they can cost about the same price as scroll saws do. (Review shipwright on L J on how to build one). There is also the knife method witch is very taxing if you get into a lot of detail. Either way they all get the job done and are fun to do, but to get good at it you need to practice a lot.
To take off the veneer tape I use water in an envelope applicator. That way you just moisten the line of tape. The applicator’s only cost about $2.00.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31EMjEXxELL._SY355_.jpg


Richard

[Jeffrey Martel]

To my mind, the chevalet is the non-electric (manually powered) equivalent of a scroll saw. Physically big and expensive. Takes some time to learn how to use it, also. Unless you really want to go in that direction, I would certainly recommend a modern powered scroll saw.

There might be some things that the chevalet can do that a scroll saw can't but I don't know what they are.

Mike

A Chevalet offers more control and can cut finer details. And it's not more expensive than a scroll saw. You can make one for $100-150 in materials if you use softwood for the frame. More if you want to use hardwood and make it look nicer. I plan on making one at some point when I can get the time.

[Chris Padilla]

I learned packet cutting from Paul Schurch when David Marks hosted him at his place in Santa Rosa, CA. Later, I learned the double-bevel from David Marks.

Both work great and are fun and interesting to do. Both use scroll saws. Both use water moistened veneer tape along with a fair amount of blue painter's tape.

I burned through my project with improper belt sanding via Paul's class. David picked up a nice Jet oscillating drum sander and we used that during his double-bevel class.

I've never heard of a chevalet until this thread but it sure looks interesting! Lots of ways to use veneer for inlay and marquetry!

[richard poitras]

Here is a picture of a Chevalet De Marqueterie for those that don't know what it looks like. Google it and you can see more pic's.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGhdMALy9x5zhy_RDFuwd2AJHxtKvkF jhPDwA6vJ7zsryzs6ri

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiDXO9RTXKf7IzR2k_hC9vIrRK4PS8M CUjC54p_peSRCYxE5LO

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQD5CSGuArgwUyPWxd_j1KAEESj-enwRHCkb95pLOyC9dCUzGCUBQ

[Chris Padilla]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DCN2XHDx0g

Very interesting. Learn something new everyday!

[Mike Mason]

I have just completed building a chevalet de marqueterie after taking Patrick Edwards' excellent class at MASW last fall. I am about to start my first project outside of class, just upgraded my bandsaw to be able to saw my own veneer (the commonly available veneer is too thin). A fellow classmate at MASW who has done marquetry before (and who seemed quite skilled at it during the class) said in an email to me a month or two ago that while he has tried to duplicate the type of work done in class (on a chevalet) by using his scrollsaw or an exacto knife, he wasn't able to get the same quality of result. I don't think that Patrick Edwards uses a chevalet on principle alone, I think that there is a significant difference between that technique and all others. I really enjoyed making the chevalet and even if I ultimately decide not to do much marquetry, I am glad I did.