32mm / metric cabinet construction

[Steve Milito]

It's time for me to set-up my new shop. I plan to put base cabinets and counter top wherever possible. That's probably 20 base cabinets. Rather than designing custom cabinets for each location it seems best to design one versatile cabinet that can be configured as needed and only build custom cabinets where needed. I've been reading about Euro design 32mm construction and I am considering trying to adhere to it as much as is reasonable. Metric doesn't bother me; I actually prefer it because of my background in STEM. Yet, it appears Euro design is much easier to pull off with MDF and larger equipment. What are the tolerances needed to successfully pulling off Euro design cabinets with interchangeable parts and hardware? Is it practical to do in a hobby shop? Any tips?

[Erik Loza]

The Euro cabinets in our house are birch ply, though particle board is more common. The machine won't know the difference. The one thing to bear in mind about this is that you absolutely MUST be able to produce a properly square panel for the 32mm system. Cannot tell you the number times I have sold a line boring machine to a customer, then had them complain about the shelf pins not lining up. Lo and behold, they are dimensioning their panels on a contractor saw or something like that.

Erik

[Martin Wasner]

Double row line bore negates that since it's referencing off of one face.

[Steve Milito]

Double row line bore negates that since it's referencing off of one face.

I'm clearly not going to buy a double row line boring machine. :)
I'm trying to come up with ways of referencing panels from common edges like top-front. It may give up interchangeable panels but it should make it so the hardware works.

[Peter Kelly]

Is it practical to do in a hobby shop? Any tips?Unless you have some sort of panel saw, construction drill, edgebander and an assistant to help with loading, breaking down 20 base cases worth of sheet goods will pretty onerous for one person. I'd recommend buying everything from CabParts and modifying the boxes to suit. http://cabparts.com/products-cabinetboxes.html

As Eric mentioned, 32mm system boxes require very tight tolerances to work correctly. It isn't a very forgiving system and maintaining accuracy over that many units will be difficult without having a full-sized slider or CNC router.

[Peter Kelly]

You may find the ​Blum Process 32 Manual (http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/ms/Process32_041204.pdf) a useful reference for designing.

[Jacob Barnhart]

I've always found this guide to be pretty helpful.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/euro-cabinets-101-2-a-beginner's-guide/

[Rod Sheridan]

Steve, I have used the 32mm system at home (sliding saw with scoring) to make cabinets for myself.

I didn't use dowels, however I did the design using the 32mm system, once you take the time to learn the system it's well worthwhile........................Rod.

[Steve Milito]

Unless you have some sort of panel saw, construction drill, edgebander and an assistant to help with loading, breaking down 20 base cases worth of sheet goods will pretty onerous for one person. I'd recommend buying everything from CabParts and modifying the boxes to suit. http://cabparts.com/products-cabinetboxes.html

As Eric mentioned, 32mm system boxes require very tight tolerances to work correctly. It isn't a very forgiving system and maintaining accuracy over that many units will be difficult without having a full-sized slider or CNC router.
I have a table saw but it's not a slider. I also have a track saw and was planning on using it for breaking down the sheet goods into smaller parts and then passing the pieces though the table saw. I may or may not deal with the raw edges, after all we are talking shop cabinets here. I'll definitely want a helper.

[Steve Milito]

Steve, I have used the 32mm system at home (sliding saw with scoring) to make cabinets for myself.

I didn't use dowels, however I did the design using the 32mm system, once you take the time to learn the system it's well worthwhile........................Rod.

I don't see the need to stick to the standard and use dowels. After all, I'm not mass producing panels for Ikea. I'll probably use loose tenons but place them in some quasi-standard pattern for this build.

[mreza Salav]

Steve, I made all the cabinets in our house (IIRC some 25-30 base cabinets, plus a whole bunch of uppers).
My tool set were track saw, cabinet saw, and other things. Not a single issue with mis-alignment or so. Make full size templates out of 3/8" mdf exact same size as your gables.
Clamp them (using quick clamps) to your gables, use a router with bushing and 5mm boring bits to do all your shelf pin holes/ hinge holes/etc in one shot.
Make your gables symmetric (up/bottom and left right). So all gables will be the same and inter-changable. It is very efficient and very accurate.
I have my cabinet-build documented here in a thread.

[Martin Wasner]

I'm clearly not going to buy a double row line boring machine. :)
I'm trying to come up with ways of referencing panels from common edges like top-front. It may give up interchangeable panels but it should make it so the hardware works.


Keep your eyes peeled, I paid $650 for mine, and put probably another $600 into it to get it dialed in replace the drive belts, new bits, and a proper fence setup on it. It's older than dirt, but punching 46 holes a a time is sweet. I don't see much advantage to upgrading other than a cnc at this point.

[Steve Milito]

My biggest confusion is on how to deal with drawer slides. The heavy duty slides don't seem to have symmetric hole patterns or am I missing something.

[Steve Milito]

Keep your eyes peeled, I paid $650 for mine, and put probably another $600 into it to get it dialed in replace the drive belts, new bits, and a proper fence setup on it. It's older than dirt, but punching 46 holes a a time is sweet. I don't see much advantage to upgrading other than a cnc at this point.

I'm always on the prowl for good deals on equipment. I've been looking for a slider for years and haven't found one within 200 miles for going on 2 years now.

[mreza Salav]

You can keep track of left/right gables but for tandem slides (if that's you want to use) you don't need a screw in every hole, so you can have extras in a line so the gable can be flipped front to back (left/right) and still mount the slide. Basically you'll have extra holes for the opposite mounting position.

[Steve Milito]

You can keep track of left/right gables but for tandem slides (if that's you want to use) you don't need a screw in every hole, so you can have extras in a line so the gable can be flipped front to back (left/right) and still mount the slide. Basically you'll have extra holes for the opposite mounting position.

What do you do for the back? Where do you reference from if the back is in a dado or rabbet?

[Dan Rude]

You could try the Veritas 32 mm system. I have also seen other threads where others have had a guide machined do the holes for pins or dowels. If I did this go with a router template version. Dan

[mreza Salav]

I didn't use rabbet or dado for the back, I used domino/screws from the gables into the edge of the back.

[Steve Milito]

I didn't use rabbet or dado for the back, I used domino/screws from the gables into the edge of the back.

OK. Thanks.
I searched for that thread but couldn't find it. Do you have a link?

[Jeff Duncan]

I've built tons of Euro cabinets and they're not nearly as daunting as some may have you believe. I use confirmat screws for which all the holes are generally pre-drilled on a cnc drill. I also have a confirmat drill bit which comes in handy when the cnc is not working. In that case I use biscuits to hold the part alignment and drill. I'd recommend spending a bit extra for the carbide tipped. I also recommend using melamine if your shop is reliably dry. It's 1/3rd the cost of pre-finished ply, wears better, and is reliably flat and of consistent thickness making your life easier. You can use metric if you like, but no real need either. I have to use metric for programming the cnc and other hardware layouts, but all other sizing is done in standard as I can get it done quicker that way.

I use a dado blade to hog out a 1/2" x 1/2" rabbet on the back edges of the cabinets for the backs. I staple the back on and then go back and use 1-1/4" #6 self drilling screws to fully secure it.

For the slides it sounds like you'll only be using 1 or 2 depths of drawer? If so get the specs for the slides your using and lay them out on one cabinet. Do a full mock set up to test everything fits where you want it. Then make yourself a jig out of something like 1/4" acrylic with all the holes drilled precisely and a small block attached the the edge to reference the cabinet.

Adjustable shelf holes are the biggest pain to get correctly without a cnc. I've tried several methods and none of them are great. A jig like Rockler sells will get you by though.

good luck,
JeffD

[Martin Wasner]

I'm clearly not going to buy a double row line boring machine. :)
I'm trying to come up with ways of referencing panels from common edges like top-front. It may give up interchangeable panels but it should make it so the hardware works.


You can have someone with a CNC punch out a template out of Baltic Birch, or a couple of them, and just drill your cabinets off of that.

[James Zhu]

OK. Thanks.
I searched for that thread but couldn't find it. Do you have a link?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?227362-Cabinets-and-lots-of-them

[mreza Salav]

I see James posted that thread.
There are so many ways to build solid/strong boxes; there is not one answer.
If you get a template build precisely I highly recommend building the holes 3/8" or whatever bushing you can use on your router and get a 5mm boring bit and use in your router instead of drill. It is much faster and much precise with a plunge router as you can just drop the bushing in the hole and do a plunge action and get an accurate and 90 degree hole at the desried height, and your holes won't be worn out (vs a drill).
For the number of boxes you have to do it's easier just make the gables left and right and do the holes from the front for the slides; so you can use whatever method you want to fasten the back.

[Larry Frank]

In 2011, I built Euro style cabinets for my shop. Here is a link (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?172521-New-Shop-Cabinets&highlight=) to the post about them. Hope the link works and it helps you.

[Glenn de Souza]

If you have a plunge router and a 5mm spiral upcut bit, pick yourself up a copy of a book called Router Magic by Bill Hylton. In it he provides a plan for a very accurate shelf pin drilling jig. His plan calls for 1" on center spacing for the holes and 1/4" holes, but you could easily make yours on 32mm centers using 5mm holes. The setback from the edge/back of the cabinet side is adjustable, so you can set that at 37mm to meet the euro standard. Once you set the jig up for the job at hand, you don't change the settings which I think helps the accuracy. Yes, your panels would need to be square, and more importantly for this jig, the two reference edges of the panel need to be parallel, but I would say that goes without saying whether you're building in the euro system or not.

I would estimate the parts for the jig to be about $30 including the toggle clamps and jig knobs. I used Baltic Birch for the two I made. That jig will come in handy in the future, and there are a ton of other jigs in that book too. I hope this suggestion helps.

Glenn

[Ole Anderson]

Did my kitchen uppers using Euro style cabs with a 32 mm shelf hole spacing and Blum hinges. No biggie. I choose to not drill the hinge holes and use inserts, rather I just screwed into the wood at the same location. Doing it over, I would try the inserts. Used a Dowelmax with 4 dowels per joint, and a dado in the back to hold the 1/2" ply backs. Broke down the ply with a Grizzly tracksaw slightly oversize and then ripped the pieces to constant width with the TS,and used a sled to get square pieces. Hickory ply with hickory hot melt edge banding, except shelves where I used solid front edges. Used a Woodhaven 32mm 25 hole phenolic template (under $40, not worth making your own) with a router bushing set for 1/4" pins using a spiral carbide bit always referencing off the bottom of the cab.