One of those days...

[Eric Schubert]

I'll start by saying I'm no expert at cutting dovetails. In fact, I've really only attempted dovetails a few times. My best attempt was my last, during a class.

I decided to make my wife something nice for Valentine's Day this year. Being a new woodworker, I wanted to start off...easier. So, I went with a simple, smaller, 3-drawer jewelry "chest".

I'm working on dovetails for the outer shell, when I notice that after I shaved my tails smooth on one end of the top board that they were a little skinnier at their bases than the other end. Flip the board around... then start shaving down the other side when... *SNAP!* Off pops a tail...

*sigh*

I guess I'll just cut off the end and cut the tails again. It's only 3/4" of an inch shorter if I do that. And yet, it still feels like a huge error. Not only do I need to cut off 5 more perfectly good tails, but I need to do them all over again on that end.

I'm guessing I'm not alone in making this mistake..?

[Tony Wilkins]

Some days you get the wood, some days the wood gets you. Can you glue the twin back in place with a reasonable fit?

[Eric Schubert]

Probably not. The base of the tail is very small. Unless I fit the dovetails and glue it in as a nonfunctional piece, it probably won't hold.

[Tony Wilkins]

Probably not. The base of the tail is very small. Unless I fit the dovetails and glue it in as a nonfunctional piece, it probably won't hold.

I hope others will chime in if this is a good idea but if this is one of 3 or more tails then it should be plenty strong even if this isn't functional.

[Jim Koepke]

I have fixed tails in a similar fashion. It is important that what remains will be strong enough to serve the intended purpose. It may be easier t make the project a touch smaller.

For me there seems to be a better proportional sense of strength with a bit more bulk to my pins and tails. As said in a previous thread about dovetails, the smallest part has to be wider than the chisel used to do the paring of the waste. I do not use my 1/8" chisel for dovetails.

I chopped out the tail instead of the waste once.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

I have plenty of projects that are a little smaller then my first drawings.

Just sigh and start over. Second time it'll be easier anyway.

[Chris Hachet]

I have plenty of projects that are a little smaller then my first drawings.

Just sigh and start over. Second time it'll be easier anyway.


I make plenty of mistakes also....figure the lumber would have been rotting on a forest floor had it not been cut, more than happy to get another piece and try again...

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks, guys. I'm feeling a little better about this. Just need to move past it and do it again. It could always be worse!

[Chris Hachet]

Thanks, guys. I'm feeling a little better about this. Just need to move past it and do it again. It could always be worse!




Which is what is nice about hand tool wood working. Make another part....turn on some music or a ball game....drink a little coffee....get in the zone....shut off the cell phone.....ahhhh.....how many more parts can I make?

[Brian Holcombe]

Post up some photos if you would, maybe the group can help out with some ideas. I have not had this trouble (knock on wood), it is possible that you may need to increase the thickness of the base.

[Eric Schubert]

Brian, I thinned the first set of tails because I saw the second set had gotten noticeably thinner after paring them to get a snug fit and square sides. So I went back to the first set and started paring again to thin them to match. Got a bit too thin on one of them and it snapped off.

I do have enough extra to start over, and it's early in the project. So perhaps that's the wisest suggestion.

Here's what the trails looked like before paring them down. Unfortunately, o don't have a photo of them now. I could get one tonight, if that would help.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/tails_zpsqwfe0z3g.jpg

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I'm guessing I'm not alone in making this mistake..?

"Nope, you are alone in this...... I usually do much WORSE" :D

For example:

Remove the tail and leave the waste. That is almost the same, but some how it feels worse. I only did that once.

I cut an entire box and I had failed to check for square. I figured that out after i had cut dovetails on all pieces and attempted a test assembly. Yeah, I got it together, but it was very much not square. My box is smaller now, and very square. The sad thing is that the boards were rather wide since it was on a carcass, not a drawer and the wood was very hard. So, it took longer than usual to cut.

OK, Maybe I have done something similar. I blew out a tail on the end of a board while test fitting. I guess that it was too tight, the box was small so that one tail was thin. I was able to use some glue and clamp it. You cannot tell.... it bent out along the grain cracking the board, but it did not completely split off.

I think that correcting your errors is a big part of wood working, but that might just be me. Like, how do you deal with a brass screw that broke? Drill it out, plug it, and move on.

I take it that you were trimming them down unsupported. Those are pretty thin tails. I usually see thin pins, not tails. They look clean though.

Pictures when you are finished so we can all enjoy it!

[Eric Schubert]

Yep, unsupported. Is there something I can use to support them before the pins are cut?

[Prashun Patel]

That's a pretty layout. I must say, I usually do the opposite: fat tails, and skinny pins. I wonder if the snap is a signal to you about the structural integrity of the joint. I am NOT saying redo it; I'm sure it'll be fine for a jewelry case; I certainly wouldn't; but I'm curious.

One bit of advice though, from a guy who's made a couple gifts for SWMBO: Fill that box with something shiny...

[David Eisenhauer]

Sorry for your hiccup. If those were my dovetails (as shown in the photo), my worry would be in snapping one off during test fit up. I have a death fear of that and try to slightly chamfer the edges of the pins/tails on the inside of the box where it will not show as readily when working with smaller sized dovetails in thinner drawer sides.

[Eric Schubert]

David, I think I'm going to just remake the piece and keep the tails a bit thicker. The last thing I want is to lose more tails during a test fit. It shouldn't take too long... I did get that same advice when I took the class on dovetails. Chamfer the inner edges to make assembly easier. They're not visible, so who really cares?

As for something shiny, well... We're on a tight budget this year. Hence I'm making this out of material I already have (poplar), rather than get something else. She'll understand not getting a shiny/sparkly item accompanying this gift. :)

[Brian Holcombe]

Eric,

Take a look at the shape of a dovetail pin and you can see how they can still hold up while being thin, the opposite it true with tails.

If the project is well on it's way I'd probably leave it go, if this is your first corner then I would redo the layout.

Edit, I see that is your plan, I think it's a good idea since this is a project that your wife will be using for a long time!

[Jim Koepke]

That looks like just the opposite of what is common with the pins being the thin part of the joint.

jtk

[Eric Schubert]

Last night I set out to redo the dovetails.

Here are the originals, including the broken tail.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/20160204_172121-1_zpsn0ma7mvk.jpg

And my second attempt. This one is significantly better, though the tail on the far right is still a little thin.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/20160204_195823-1_zpsrpbsfyo9.jpg

Guess I'll just consider the first attempt a warmup.

On to the next step: the pins!

[Tony Wilkins]

Both look good if thin. Practice makes better they say. WTG!

[Mike Brady]

I see the problem. Those tails are going to break off every time you try to assemble the joint. If you want the skinny dovetail look, its the pins that need to be skinny. You probably should draw up a full-scale layout on paper and use that as a guide to make an entire corner with some scrap wood before you try your "real" wood. Honestly, three prior sets of dovetails is not much experience to be trying this. I would advise against the skinny pins this time around. Her's a simple layout that still gives the hand-cut look:
:http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/finefettle/IMG_0418_zpsfjqxn9tn.jpg (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/finefettle/media/IMG_0418_zpsfjqxn9tn.jpg.html)

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks, Mike. I always love seeing examples of others' work. Those look very nice.

I hadn't planned on the tails being so thin. It just sort of happened as I was paring them smooth and square. I'll probably make them a little wider next time to avoid this issue entirely.

I think the new set will hold up, if I'm nice to them. Do you think they'll be fine?

[David Eisenhauer]

Just be gentle with them when test fitting. If you gorilla-pound them together with a compression fit, then look out when you have to tap them apart with a hammer. The taking-apart part is where the danger lies. Light taps for test fitting, stop tapping if they start getting tight and you still have a ways to go to achieve full depth fit up.

[Mike Brady]

If you make four sets of tails like those in the photo, and have them fit tightly into the pin board, I think you stand a likely chance of breaking off one or more tails. Sorry. Here's a tip: always leave your tail board too long until you have cut an entire corner successfully. That way you can recut if you make a mistake. It lowers your chance for disaster by half and avoids having throwing away valuable wood.

[Eric Schubert]

Mike, I'll keep that advice in mind on my next project. Makes a lot of sense.

I only plan for tails on two corners. Not sure if that makes a difference.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'd make the tails 1" wide and adjust your layout around that before remaking another set.

Measure out at the base, that way you can plan around your chisels as well. I set my dovetails so that I'm using 6mm chisel on the pins, usually. Bigger dovetails I may set the pins for a 9mm or 12mm chisel.

[Eric Schubert]

I went forward with the new set of tails. I cut my first set of pins on one of the end boards and got them to fit quite nicely. Should look good once the project is done. I've also laid out the pins for the second set of tails, but have not cut them, yet.

While working on all of this last night, I was very excited to break out a couple of planes I haven't used, yet. I used my Stanley 78 rabbet plane on the ends of the bottom of this jewelry box. This will fit into a pair of dadoes in the end boards to form the bottom of the box, leaving a little bit for "legs and keeping the bottom of the box off of the surface on which the box will sit.

After sharpening up the cutters, these planes performed very well. I did have a little tear-out at the ends of the cuts, but I more or less expected that. And I left the boards a bit wide so that I could plane out imperfections along the edges.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Jewelry%20Box/Rabbet_zpsskgbwk3m.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Jewelry%20Box/Dado%202_zpsnbbl2gzb.jpg