Refacing existing cabinets to match new prefab cabinets; HOW and Where

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I am able to build cabinets to put in my kitchen, but there are many reasons that this is a bad idea. (time, space, etc). If it were just one cabinet, sure, whatever, but this is not.

if this happens, it might look like this:



Reface all cabinets with wood veneer. Can I get this finished or must I finish it myself?
Replace all cabinet doors.
Replace all drawer fronts
Replace a fake drawer front (in front of the sink)
Replace a piece between two cabinets over the sink in front of a light. No idea what this is called.
Add a few new upper and lower cabinets that hopefully match the refaced look.


Ultimately, the cost will be carried by my father-in-law as a gift to my wife and me, so, he is kind of driving this.

My Father-in-law has hung cabinets in the past and considers it no big deal.

Does it seem possible that I can find all of these items in a way that things will match from a fit and finish perspective?

For example, Home Depot has this page (http://refacing.homedepot.com/diy.php) for people who want to do the refacing and just purchase supplies. It is not clear, however, if they have something that will match if I also need to purchase a few cabinets to install that will be in close proximity (or next to) the refaced cabinets.

My Father-in-law really likes Lowes, and he tells me that Lowes does not support do-it-yourself cabinet refacing. If I am simply ordering and having things delivered, I suppose that it does not matter if this is strictly mail order. I just do not have the experience and am hoping that someone can point me to some places to look or to say that this is nuts.

My wife indicated that she prefers a light colored wood. I think that she said light and something about amber, hark honey, maple, and standard Oak color.... then she said that she likes my African Mahogany desk finished with Waterlox (kind of dark). The important part is that it is not painted I suppose.

If things are prefinished, that would save me a lot of time. If it cannot be, well, then so be it, but....

[John TenEyck]

There are likely several ways to go about this, but if I were faced with that task the first thing I would decide is if I'm OK with the existing cabinet layout and if the cabinet boxes themselves are in good condition. If the answer to either is no then I wouldn't throw money into a rehab; I'd be looking at all new. But let's assume you've already answered those questions in the affirmative. In that case, take a look at this info: http://walzcraft.com/cabinet-refacing/

John
(http://walzcraft.com/cabinet-refacing/)

[sebastian phillips]

You've gotten some good advice from John.
You can easily make your new cabinets look like the old ones that you've re-faced....re-face the new ones with the exact same refacing stock you used on the old ones.
Second the recommendation for Walzcraft, and would highly recommend having them finish everything.
Re-facing is not hard, but I'd recommend getting some extra veneer to practice with on an old garage cabinet or something, so that you have your techniques dialed in for your kitchen.
Good Luck,
Seb

[Jim Dwight]

I'd price it out before deciding that refacing and adding new doors is cheaper. If you want to go that route for other reasons then you'll have to decide. When I do our kitchen, I am seriously thinking of using Chinese knock down cabinets. I will either order a door or two or, better, see them first. Lily Ann is one brand. They are made of plywood (at least some are) with solid wood doors (unless they are painted) and have soft close hardware. They look like they might be cheaper than just buying the materials. You have to put them together when you get them but that is very simple compared to making and finishing cabinets.

LOML likes some Kitchenaid cabinets she saw in Lowe's so we'll have to price those too. They would be less work and risk but I think the price difference will be large.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

This is very useful... I see that I need to spend more time checking out the site...

[glenn bradley]

You also need to be honest about your skill set. Kitchen cabinets are not as easy as the people who are setup to make them and know how to do that sort of thing make it look. I build lots of furniture and would not hesitate to take after a bedroom set, living room furniture or a custom hutch for a specific environment; I do this all the time. If my kitchen cabinets needed a re-do I would call my friend who does kitchens.

It would take me 2 months (all on site) and cut into what I prefer to do. It would take him a week (probably two days of that on site) and it would look great. He has the right skills, the right tools and more importantly, know what make a good looking kitchen (trim, scale, spacing). Unless you want to enjoy the experience, figure out what your salary would be based on time spent . . . I know the time it would take me would make my hourly pay pale against the average fast-food worker.

[Dave Arnett]

I've refaced and added cabinets to a few kitchens. It isn't that difficult.

Just a few things to consider....

Finish the veneer before application. It will need a little touching up afterwards, but not much.

If you're going with oak or maple, you might be able to get them unfinished. Finish them just like the veneer.

If you go with African Mahogany, I would suggest buying paint grade and veneer over that. (everything in African Mahogany could get very costly)

Building doors to match the new ones may be an issue.

Get your hands on this book http://www.tauntonstore.com/refacing-cabinets-herrick-kimball-070307.html
The Home Depot guide wasn't bad, but this book goes into much more detail and gives you a few nifty tips. I would be happy to loan you mine.

You're going to have new doors, drawer fronts, cabinets, valance (over sink), a couple sheets of veneer, toe kick, end panels, trim, etc, etc. IMO, you will need to finish all of that yourself, or have it done locally.


How many cabinets will you need to buy?

I don't claim to know it all, but again, I have done this a few times.



Oh yeah...

I used to be in the business.
Semi-retired now.
I'm one hour north of Indy...about two hours from your kitchen ;).
Send me an address if you want that book.



edit: 3 hours 9 minutes from your kitchen

[Andrew Pitonyak]

You also need to be honest about your skill set. Kitchen cabinets are not as easy as the people who are setup to make them and know how to do that sort of thing make it look. I build lots of furniture and would not hesitate to take after a bedroom set, living room furniture or a custom hutch for a specific environment; I do this all the time. If my kitchen cabinets needed a re-do I would call my friend who does kitchens.

It would take me 2 months (all on site) and cut into what I prefer to do. It would take him a week (probably two days of that on site) and it would look great. He has the right skills, the right tools and more importantly, know what make a good looking kitchen (trim, scale, spacing). Unless you want to enjoy the experience, figure out what your salary would be based on time spent . . . I know the time it would take me would make my hourly pay pale against the average fast-food worker.

My Father-in-law is driving (and paying for) the remodel and he has installed and hung cabinets. I suspect that when he did his, he had a helper who knew more about it than he did.

Luckily, the existing cabinets are in good shape, but they really need a face-lift. Oh, and they are real wood.

Hanging cabinets is indeed outside my comfort zone, and if this was a total remodel job, I would be far more concerned.

I have no idea what will be put down for the counter tops and it will be an entirely new counter top.... Regardless, that is way outside my comfort zone. I think that my wife wants stone. I don't know anything about counter tops. I currently have some plastic feeling top (linoleum??). For a fully made counter top that is a single straight section (and not something special like stone) I could probably handle. I am not touching two counter surfaces that meet.

Last time my Father-in-law drove a project (digging out a large stump.... and he has dug out many stumps), he quickly recognized that this one was significantly larger than we could handle and he just called in a professional. In other words, I might expect him to bite off more than I think that he can chew, and he usually is able to chew it, but, if he can't, he calls someone who can. That is what gives me some level of calm in all of this.

[Steve Schoene]

Refacing is doable. Installing new cabinets is also doable. BUT, making both parts of the project MATCH is a very challenging job calling for ample finish experience. If you purchase additional cabinets choose them to coordinate with the refaced cabinets. Finishes should be so different in color or wood that there is no question that you tried to make them match. The multiple finish kitchen is being done these days even in high end kitchens.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Get your hands on this book http://www.tauntonstore.com/refacing-cabinets-herrick-kimball-070307.html

I was able to find a used copy for dirt cheap, so I picked on up for cheaper than the shipping from you and then back to you.... I probably should have offered to just buy your copy before I bought my copy......

I am very concerned about the matching. I had hoped to not have to do major finishing myself, but, I am not sure if that can be helped if I want things to match with a casual inspection. Using something common (like oak or maple) would probably make that possible. One reason that I had considered home depot was because I thought that they may offer prefinished cabinets that matched their prefinished veneer.

If I choose a very common cabinet face, it might be possible to match the look directly, for example, a face frame with a flat panel.

The largest hurdle is that to install a full size dishwasher, i need to move the fridge. If I move the fridge, then I will install a single lower and two upper cabinets where the fridge currently sits. These cabinets can be fully separated from the other cabinets, but still. I might have a single matching lower, I just need to measure to see if it is the correct size.

I would then install about six feet of upper and lowers along the back wall.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Refacing is doable. Installing new cabinets is also doable. BUT, making both parts of the project MATCH is a very challenging job calling for ample finish experience. If you purchase additional cabinets choose them to coordinate with the refaced cabinets. Finishes should be so different in color or wood that there is no question that you tried to make them match. The multiple finish kitchen is being done these days even in high end kitchens.


I had not thought of that. use a different finish on the back wall that is completely separate. For certain I am not an expert finisher. I have matched finish in the past, but, it took work and time to find the correct color mix with the wood that I had compared to the existing finish. It is certainly something that I had wanted to avoid.

[John TenEyck]

+1 Trying to get a perfect, even near perfect, match is a fools errand unless you have a lot of experience. Even then, it's very hard to do. If that's what you want I suggest you have a pro shop do the color matching and finishing. But considering you started this thread with the intent of taking it on yourself, or at least that's how I interpreted it, then Steve's advise to go with coordinated color for the new stuff would be much easier.

I built a large wall cabinet system over a period of nearly two years. I intentionally went with a coordinated color scheme when I built each phase of the project because I knew I'd never be able to get a perfect match to what I had done earlier.

John

[Dave Arnett]

If you use the same finishing schedule on the veneer as you do the unfinished cabinets, they are going to match.

Is there something I'm missing?

[Andrew Pitonyak]

If you use the same finishing schedule on the veneer as you do the unfinished cabinets, they are going to match.

Is there something I'm missing?


I had hoped for finished cabinets, veneer, and doors.

They would likely not match unless it was single supplier.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

That is one reason that I don't want cherry with a clear finish. It will change color over time and I don't even want to think about trying to match that.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Are there likely to be color matching issues if I just used a clear cote over say some species of oak?

[sebastian phillips]

Refacing is doable. Installing new cabinets is also doable. BUT, making both parts of the project MATCH is a very challenging job calling for ample finish experience. If you purchase additional cabinets choose them to coordinate with the refaced cabinets. Finishes should be so different in color or wood that there is no question that you tried to make them match. The multiple finish kitchen is being done these days even in high end kitchens.
There should be no problem making "both parts" of the project MATCH.
Make or buy all your new doors the same, and finish them the same (both existing cabinets, and any new "in-fill" cabinets).
Buy or build your new "in-fill" cabinets, and install them: before you do any re-facing.
You should then re-face everything at the same time, with the same material, finished exactly the same.
Yes, you will be re-facing your new cabinets. Make the face frames out of something simple and inexpensive. Just make them properly, and install the new cabinets flush and in line with the old ones.
This is how a professional (me) would handle your infill cabinets.
There is no "matching" of finishes this way....SIMPLE.
You will have enough challenges making this job look good, from the sound of it.
Matching finishes should not be one of your challenges.
Another reason to do what I am suggesting is for looks. Where two 1 1/2" stiles meet on the old cabinets for example, you are going to be installing a 3" wide pice of veneer: you will no longer see the joint between the two cabinet stiles. If you stick a standard cabinet in a run of refaced cabinets, the stile joint(s) will look different and stick out like a sore thumb.
Install, then re-face.
Good Luck,
Seb

[Dave Arnett]

Is there something I'm missing?



I had hoped for finished cabinets, veneer, and doors.

They would likely not match unless it was single supplier.

Now I see.

In the words of the late, great Gilda Radner...."Never mind"

[Jared Sankovich]

Have you considered paint. I can't say painted cabinets are my favorite, but it removes the matching issue, and the need for veneer.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Have you considered paint. I can't say painted cabinets are my favorite, but it removes the matching issue, and the need for veneer.


Yeah, I don't really want paint, but, it would take care of color matching

[Irvin Gomez]

You also need to be honest about your skill set. Kitchen cabinets are not as easy as the people who are setup to make them and know how to do that sort of thing make it look. I build lots of furniture and would not hesitate to take after a bedroom set, living room furniture or a custom hutch for a specific environment; I do this all the time. If my kitchen cabinets needed a re-do I would call my friend who does kitchens.

It would take me 2 months (all on site) and cut into what I prefer to do. It would take him a week (probably two days of that on site) and it would look great. He has the right skills, the right tools and more importantly, know what make a good looking kitchen (trim, scale, spacing). Unless you want to enjoy the experience, figure out what your salary would be based on time spent . . . I know the time it would take me would make my hourly pay pale against the average fast-food worker.

Great points. As a hobbyist I'm always aware that my woodworking is just for the fun of it - not cost. It's much better to just buy the stuff.

So, I guess the original poster would need to decide if the project is "fun enough" to justify getting into it, as opposed to just letting a pro do it for the same amount of money (or even less, if you include the cost of labor). Reminds me of the multiple tablesaw sled-building tutorials I have seen on Youtube, where guys spend hours making a wooden slider for the miter slot, when the could just buy a perfectly sized, straight, adjustable one for $12. Sometimes it's best to take the "easy" (commercial) way. That said, I'm not in any way suggesting the OP should do one or the other (I'm nothing more than a beginner) - I'm just saying he should consider all options.

[glenn bradley]

Last time my Father-in-law drove a project (digging out a large stump.... and he has dug out many stumps), he quickly recognized that this one was significantly larger than we could handle and he just called in a professional. In other words, I might expect him to bite off more than I think that he can chew, and he usually is able to chew it, but, if he can't, he calls someone who can. That is what gives me some level of calm in all of this.

Sounds like you've got a good situation there. A chance to further bond with you FIL and a FIL who has gumption tempered with a good does of common sense. If I had this behind me I would be much more tempted to forge ahead.