PDA

View Full Version : Importing Machine held up by FDA



daniel coyle
02-01-2016, 8:22 PM
So, I need to fill this form out apparently to get my machine out of customs. Anyone had to do this before? Anyone know what boxes I am supposed to check? I just bought a laser from Sinjoe in China. CO2 1290 machine. 330811

Rich Harman
02-01-2016, 8:48 PM
So, I need to fill this form out apparently to get my machine out of customs. Anyone had to do this before? Anyone know what boxes I am supposed to check? I just bought a laser from Sinjoe in China. CO2 1290 machine.

My broker did it for me. I did need to contact Shenhui for a current Assesion number though. The one they had on the paperwork had expired.

Gary Hair
02-01-2016, 8:59 PM
My broker did mine too - I sent them the info from Weike and they did the rest.

Scott Challoner
02-02-2016, 12:16 PM
Do you know who the carrier is? I got an email from DHL telling me the port and the entry number. I called them and they were quite helpful. You should have an accession number from the manufacturer.

daniel coyle
02-02-2016, 12:37 PM
Yes, my broker hasn't been all that helpful in getting me all this stuff. Thanks for the tips. The manufacturer is on Chinese holiday right now as luck would have it.

David Somers
02-02-2016, 2:48 PM
Daniel,

Someone already mentioned the Accession number. That is critical. There is also a code the defines what the device is. There are a gazillion codes for a laser cutter engraver and using the wrong code will flag the device to the FDA for deep inspection and that is not the correct code to use. Your broker, if you are using one, should know enough to code it correctly. Ordinarily I would be delighted to look the code used for mine for you but I will not be home till the weekend. If you still need it then let me know and I can pull the paperwork for you. Your broker should be able to determine the correct code though if they consider the options. There are a number of codes that can logically apply to a laser cutter and a laser engraver and as I said, some result in heavy inspection processes by the FDA and some allow it to sail through smoothly. This assumes there isnt anything else causing a block of course. Using the wrong type of packing and crate materials can be one cause of delay for example.

Dave

Walt Langhans
02-02-2016, 3:36 PM
And... you need to get it handled as quick as possible, because they will also start to assess you a storage fee if it's there too long (from what I understand that time varies on location so you might want to check with the port)

Mark Sipes
02-02-2016, 3:45 PM
Happy Year of the Monkey....... Have some pins being made.... well in the que to be made after the party ends that is !




.

daniel coyle
02-02-2016, 4:25 PM
yes. well, i am sort of out of luck at the moment it seems. David, if i haven't figure this out by the time you are back home i would definitely take you up on the offer to look up the number.

Zach Browning
02-02-2016, 5:54 PM
The code my broker used for importing was 8456.10.8000

John Noell
02-02-2016, 9:43 PM
HTS Code: 8456.10.8000 - Machine Tools Operated By Laser Or Other Light Or Photon Beam Processes. 2.4% duty in USA.

David Somers
02-05-2016, 5:03 PM
Just got home this morning and checked.....the codes Zach and John just gave you are the same as the one I had on the laser as well.

Dave
PS Heading out again for a few days but will try to watch the forum if you need more help.

Bill Cunningham
02-06-2016, 11:58 AM
If your broker can't handle this, I'd be looking for a new broker with a bit more experience.

David Somers
02-06-2016, 4:27 PM
Hey Bill! I am not sure I would place all the blame on the broker. When I was bringing in my machine I kind of paralleled my brokers efforts mostly because I wanted to have a clue what was going on. When it came time to code the items being brought in I think I found at least 6 or 7 codes that could have applied to the laser without any question at all. If you looked at any one of them you would have said "yup! That's the one! Fits to a T!" The broker explained to me what the differences were though. You actually had to know what each code triggered for responses on the part of FDA rather than what the codes actually said. And each one did have an application depending on your use for the machine. Same machine in each case. Just a matter of how it was to be used. It was along the facetious lines of "well...code A is for right handed users of lasers and code b is for left handed users of lasers. Right handed users in the west also use that hand to hold toilet paper, which involves fecal matter and therefor triggers multiple long running tests for any trace of the 2,301 fecal coliform variants known in the world. Whereas if you are a left handed user you dont need to deal with this. But of course, left handed people were thought to be sinister way back in Roman times and therefor that code, while getting your laser to you faster, will result in the NSA tracking your every move." Made little sense to me, but it was nice to know. I could easily see a broker who had experience with a few of the machine uses not realizing there were others that would apply better and more cheaply and require less inspection. You just can't know it all. My broker just happened to have a clue. But others in her office were not aware and were asking why she had used the codes she did use.

The Lunar New Year celebration should be over soon Daniel. I forget, but it seemed like the holiday runs about 14 or 15 days? It is a big event over there and amazingly important to families. Pretty cool actually. Unless of course you need a new accession number for your laser. <sad grin>

Dave

Roy Sanders
02-07-2016, 2:43 PM
Hi. Daniel. I musta got lucky I didn't use a broker. I contacted my Manu they sent a doc that I put with my form. Received my laser 4 days later.

Scott Shepherd
02-07-2016, 2:56 PM
Hi. Daniel. I musta got lucky I didn't use a broker. I contacted my Manu they sent a doc that I put with my form. Received my laser 4 days later.

The problem is it's Chinese New Year, so everyone is closed until that's over.

Neville Stewart
02-08-2016, 2:08 PM
My broker did mine too - I sent them the info from Weike and they did the rest.
And thanks a million for doing that Gary - having a ball with my Fiber.
331259

Gary Hair
02-08-2016, 2:10 PM
Nice work Neville!

Neville Stewart
02-08-2016, 2:24 PM
Nice work Neville!

You've only taught me 99.9% of it : )

Gary Hair
02-08-2016, 3:43 PM
Glad you came up with the .1%, I can't give you everything...

David Somers
02-08-2016, 5:19 PM
Neville,

Just curious what the material is that you show in your photo? I assume that was engraved on your Fiber? How long does that take to engrave?

Very nice looking!

Dave

Neville Stewart
02-08-2016, 5:56 PM
Hi David, its 6061 Aluminum, run on a 3 hatch pattern on a 30 w Fiber for about 60 mins or so. The hatch was sequential so it could have been done in about 40 I would say.

Matt Geraci
02-08-2016, 10:05 PM
When my fiber was about to ship they had that big military parade through Beijing a few months back. Mine was in a crate on the dock for 4 weeks - they didn't let anything ship out of country during that period!! Luckily once it left TNT and DHL did a great job getting it to me with little delay

David Somers
02-09-2016, 3:05 AM
Neville

So. How big is that piece you did? The engraving looks fairly deep? Was that a one off product or part of a larger run. What do you expect to charge for a single
Object that takes an hour to run? Just curious. I hadn't paid much attention to fiber galvos but now you have me curious about them. Not that I have enough time to play with all my existing toys right now. Grin.

Neville Stewart
02-09-2016, 4:14 AM
The piece is about 1.5 inches x 1 inch and it's just a test piece for power parameters/hatch pattern/selection. It's hard to say what I'll charge right now but you know gun owners, I have a lot invested in mine anyway. Fiber lasers with an expected 100k hour life have to be thought of differently I suppose. Perhaps some seasoned users could address the topic of cost. I know another user that charges by hour and has no issue getting it.

daniel coyle
02-19-2016, 2:18 PM
Well, I got lucky. I had to get creative, and I have to leave it at that (PM me if you want specifics). I was able to send the FDA an accession number and an explanation about it that they accepted. Had I not pushed the envelope here in the way I am not describing I was promised by the FDA that the machine would be destroyed with no recompense. I had hired a broker that I had used in the past successfully and she did not know about accession numbers. I hired her because I did not expect that I could know and manage all the details of importing myself (thought I was being responsible and thorough by hiring an expert to handle it). This was a broker who was recommended to me here on this forum. Of course I wish she had been more competent but she is in my opinion fundamentally responsible and reliable and after going through this it seems this part of the FDA's procedures is exceptionally challenging (understatement) for a small business person to negotiate and very easily missed by all but the most specialized/experienced brokers.

Some manufacturers have these numbers and some don't, the FDA does not share the ones who do and don't (which is unhelpful to say the least), the manufacturers who don't have this number may or may not know they need it and there is no barrier to them making the mistake of sending a machine without it. What's more, that there is no other process in place by the FDA but to destroy machines that don't have the number is bleak.

The accession number is assigned by the FDA to Chinese companies after they fill out a form stating that their machine is radiation safe. The FDA may or may not inspect that company later and validate the claim. So, the accession number is often a "safety guarantee" by the FDA that was policed, essentially, by the Chinese manufacturer whose primary interest is selling machines and not safety of international users.

That the FDA doesn't offer to make one pay for an individual inspection or even a fine of some sort while giving one the chance to prove the product's viability is really minimalist and does not address the complexity and vulnerability that already makes up the import process.

I say this all so that, should someone else be looking for advice or feedback, they will hopefully find this and be better prepared to avoid this potential cliff themselves. I feel extremely fortunate to have gotten out without loss but if you heard my story you might be surprised that I did. I may be missing something here, in fact I am sure I am, and I am happy to hear any feedback. Obviously I am biased after going through this and would probably not even have looked at a thread like this had it not been my problem (so, thanks so much to those of you who offered time to help out.)

Rich Harman
02-19-2016, 5:02 PM
Well, I got lucky. I had to get creative... ...Of course I wish she had been more competent but she is in my opinion fundamentally responsible...

Do you blame the broker for the problem, or the manufacturer? If the solution required was "creative", I am wondering if the broker had no other options.

Jerome Stanek
02-19-2016, 5:21 PM
Aren't the brokers bonded and insured for these kind of problems. We had a trade show display that was held up at the Canadian border and the broker said it wasn't their problem but took them to court and they had to pay to get it back here. They filed the wrong forms when it was shipped to Canada and on the way back is when the problem arose.

Steve Morris
02-19-2016, 5:22 PM
Do you blame the broker for the problem, or the manufacturer? If the solution required was "creative", I am wondering if the broker had no other options.

I'd blame the FDA for operating such a poorly designed and administered system that allows people to lose large sums of money due to the FDA's lack of communication and information. Typical government behaviour in my experience.

Jerome Stanek
02-19-2016, 7:25 PM
If you read the descriptions on some of the lasers they state that they are FDA compliant. So the brokers should be held responsible for getting it here. That is what you are pating them to do.

daniel coyle
02-19-2016, 7:41 PM
Richard, Jerome - When I was most concerned that my machine was going to be a loss I was tempted to blame the broker, the manufacturer, the FDA and myself! Of course, and I don't mean to sound polyanna, blaming someone or something is totally natural when things are going wrong AND usually pretty ineffective. I think it would take a pretty special broker to have caught this detail and the manufacturer was new to selling to the USA, likely they may not have been aware of the certification. I DID think about suing the broker when I was feeling desperate and I like her and she has served me well in the past so that didn't feel like an attractive solution. I am glad not to be weighing that option right now. This machine had not been sold in the USA before it seems and I bought it based on recommendations I got from other international users. I am still optimistic about the machine itself. Even had I asked for a USA recommendation and were told there were only owners in Australia, England etc. I don't see how I would have seen red flags. This accession number thing was just a total blind spot for me (and my broker). So, its just really a cautionary tale. There are a limited number of Chinese manufacturers that sell machines in the USA and one might do well to buy from them, even if one finds a superior product that has not found its way to the USA yet. The system the FDA uses here is entirely uncompromising and its was, like I said, a combination of real luck, cooperation and creativity that saved my machine from a loss. The the FDA gives no quarter was surprising and alarming given how complicated and vulnerable the import process already is.

mitch stephens
06-14-2017, 9:36 AM
Can anyone else share any ideas on this. my situation is a little different and I will explain. I received my machine but I was told by the shipping broker that it had not been passed by FDA ( How did the trucking company get it and deliver it to me?).A week after I received it I get a letter from FDA saying it is detained ( I have machine) One of the letters says something about FDA FORM 2877. Any advice on this would be grateful. Thanks in advance
Mitch

Bill George
06-14-2017, 9:51 AM
Can anyone else share any ideas on this. my situation is a little different and I will explain. I received my machine but I was told by the shipping broker that it had not been passed by FDA ( How did the trucking company get it and deliver it to me?).A week after I received it I get a letter from FDA saying it is detained ( I have machine) One of the letters says something about FDA FORM 2877. Any advice on this would be grateful. Thanks in advance
Mitch
Since this thread is over a year old you need to start your own with the details posted on Your issue.