Going to try DNA Soak

[john snowdon]

Hi, I have log lengths of wild cherry that I am turning green. Several bowls that I have currently turned are now covered in their damp shavings in a box in my shop. As I would like not to wait a year, I have been looking at the archives and learning about a DNA soak. I do have a couple of questions, tho'.
- Most of my bowls will be 8-15" diameter and 4-7" tall. How many bowls will a 4 gal bath handle before I should refresh the DNA?
- What safety or fire safety precautions should I follow when using a DNA soak procedure? (I get the no open flames part...)
- When it is time to dispose of the DNA, do I just take the container outside and let it evaporate?

Sorry to be a bit simple here but I learned about BLO, CA rags and spontaneous combustion the hard way (it was only smoldering) and figured it is best to ask this time!

Thanks for your help!

John

[hu lowery]

Hi, I have log lengths of wild cherry that I am turning green. Several bowls that I have currently turned are now covered in their damp shavings in a box in my shop. As I would like not to wait a year, I have been looking at the archives and learning about a DNA soak. I do have a couple of questions, tho'.
- Most of my bowls will be 8-15" diameter and 4-7" tall. How many bowls will a 4 gal bath handle before I should refresh the DNA?
- What safety or fire safety precautions should I follow when using a DNA soak procedure? (I get the no open flames part...)
- When it is time to dispose of the DNA, do I just take the container outside and let it evaporate?

Sorry to be a bit simple here but I learned about BLO, CA rags and spontaneous combustion the hard way (it was only smoldering) and figured it is best to ask this time!

Thanks for your help!

John



John,

Sorry but I'm answering the question you didn't ask! I have about seventeen gallons of methanol on hand after buying "Denatured Alcohol". Methanol is considerably cheaper than ethanol and somehow they are passing them off as the same thing! Pure old school ethanol you could dilute and drink, why it was denatured to begin with. Now they are much more liberal in what they are calling ethanol so nobody buy into that today.

My real issue is that denatured alcohol used to be ethanol with one or two percent methanol or pump gasoline added so it couldn't be drank. My Crown brand "Denatured Alcohol" was 85% methanol! If you check the MSDS's available online you will find this is true of most denatured alcohols. Methanol is much more dangerous to handle than denatured alcohol according to most opinions. It's what usually kills people when they get bad moonshine so I'm a believer. I'm somewhat casual about getting ethanol on my skin, rubbed it into joints and muscles deliberately many a time. Methanol I don't want on my skin, I don't want to inhale the fumes, and I sure don't want to drink any!

As a side note, the two blanks I left in the alcohol bath for 30 hours, the one I forgot and left in about a week, all cracked badly before they had been out of the bath a month. Anybody nearby can buy 15 gallons or so of lightly used methanol cheap!

Edit: For what I ended up spending on methanol I could have bought a big boiling pot and burner. The dangers of hot liquid unless you let things cool before fishing in the pot but three or four heavy boiling bags and you could do a continuous boil and boil a lot of wood in a day. Don't know how it works compared to alcohol soaks but I think safer with moderate care.

Hu

[Bill Boehme]

As a general rule of thumb a rough turned bowl should be ready to do the final turning in four or five months after rough turning if it is coated with Anchorseal. Some turners use paper bags and I think that their results are similar. My personal opinion about sticking rough turned bowls in their shavings is that while it may not be the worst thing that you can do, it isn't far from top honors in that category.

From what I have seen, packing in shavings will in some instances act as a desiccant, drying out the bowl too fast and in other circumstances start a mold factory depending on what sort of container you use for the shavings, how much air gets to the shavings, the humidity, and temperature. It's one of those things where you don't have a great deal of success in obtaining a middle ground. Neither mold nor a cracked bowl have much eye appeal.

It seems like almost a universal pursuit that new turners are in search for the Holy Grail of fast drying and eventually most of us decide that nothing beats slow drying and the slower, the better. It's the least expensive and that will give you time to build up an inventory of drying bowls so that you will always have a steady stream.

Hu was referring to a recent thread on the AAW forum discussing denatured alcohol. Once upon a time as Hu said, denatured alcohol, meant ethanol with a small percentage of denaturant ... usually methanol and other ingredients with boiling points close to that of ethanol. That is no longer the case and it hardly even makes sense to call it denatured alcohol anymore because now 60 to 85 percent is methanol plus methyl ethyl ketone and/or methyl isobutyl ketone. I never was a fan of using denatured alcohol to reduce cracking. Even if it was any better than any other method, the expense and hazards dealing with it don't appeal to me.

I found the following note to physicians in an MSDS from one manufacturer that caught my attention (hemodialysis doesn't sound like fun to me):



Poison. This product contains methanol. Methanol is metabolized to formaldehyde and formic acid. These metabolites may cause metabolic acidosis, visual disturbances and blindness. Since metabolism is required for these toxic symptoms, their onset may be delayed from 6 to 30 hours following ingestion. Ethanol competes for the same metabolic pathway and has been used as an antidote. Methanol is effectively removed by hemodialysis. Call your local poison control center for further instructions.

[hu lowery]

From what I have seen, packing in shavings will in some instances act as a desiccant, drying out the bowl too fast and in other circumstances start a mold factory depending on what sort of container you use for the shavings, how much air gets to the shavings, the humidity, and temperature. It's one of those things where you don't have a great deal of success in obtaining a middle ground. Neither mold nor a cracked bowl have much eye appeal.

It seems like almost a universal pursuit that new turners are in search for the Holy Grail of fast drying and eventually most of us decide that nothing beats slow drying and the slower, the better. It's the least expensive and that will give you time to build up an inventory of drying bowls so that you will always have a steady stream.



Bill,

My issue isn't so much not being willing to wait as not having anything to work with after the wait. My rough turned blanks usually dry too fast and crack. My only real success has been with the shavings that just came off of the blanks loosely packed around them stacking the bowls in a plastic garbage can with the top just laying upside down on top of the column of wood and shavings. I have also ended up with a black slimy mess in the can or enough mold that the most tempting thing was to up-end the can in the burn pile and try to avoid the smoke.

I think I'll try building a kiln, frustrating trying to find something that works. I lost about an eight year old river of wood for billiard cues due to Isaac and the corp of engineers so I'm not unfamiliar with the program. Just can't seem to even get my river of wood started with these bigger pieces of wood! Right now I have exactly zero once turned blanks on hand. Waiting on plastic wrap to get here so I can wrap the wood the instant I cut a slab, rough turn ASAP and then wrap again only the outside and rim. Anchorseal hasn't worked that well for me.

You can see a handful of blanks in this stack where I resorted to high speed drying!;)

Hu

[Brice Rogers]

Hu, I picked up a roll of the plastic wrap at Staples (office supply store). The roll was about 8 inches wide. Looks like enough to do a LOT of bowls. I found the roll in the section of the store that stocks packing supplies.

[Justin Stephen]

When I used to turn green, I frequently used DNA soak. Based on advice at the time (which is now a couple of years old at least), I would buy Sunnyside-brand DNA since the word was, at least at the time, that it was still mostly ethanol. No idea if that is still true.

I soaked blanks for 24-48 hours and then just put them on a shelf in my garage to dry with no other special care. I had little problem with cracking, certainly no worse than other drying methods I had tried. I usually finish turned about a month later. The DNA itself will often become quite stained by the wood, depending on species, so when I discarded it, it was often due to color rather than age or how many times it had been used. I disposed of it buy pouring it back into the original canisters and dropping it off at my dump's hazmat drop.

Edit: Just checked the MSDS on Sunnyside DNA. It lists 30-60% of both ethyl and methyl alcohol, so it looks like it is going to be largely methanol also now.

[John K Jordan]

I think I'll try building a kiln, frustrating trying to find something that works.

At the TAW symposium last week Glenn Lucas showed pictures of his bowl-drying kiln. I think it used a dehumidifier kiln in a walk-in freezer body. He is an extremely prolific production turner and claims very little loss. Here is a thread you might find interesting.
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=959

To the OP: Years ago there was a lot of buzz about alcohol drying. I did careful experiments and was not convinced of the effectiveness so I won't use it. When I reported my findings on another forum I was attacked by the alcohol bandwagon club. Boiling is probably a much better way since the heat softens the lignum and lets stresses equalize. A production bowl turner from South America once told us that ALL of their roughed bowls are boiled. He showed pictures of a 55 gallon drum over a wood fire. He uses what we would call exotic woods, some which are notoriously difficult to dry successfully. With boiling he reported almost no loss.

Chris Ramsey, a cowboy hat production turner was at our club recently and said for him there is nothing better than slow drying in shavings. It does take a very long time, especially with the thick rings he cuts from his hats.

I don't turn many bowls but I have a bunch of roughed bowls ready for when I do. I coat with anchor seal and put aside. Some were roughed out at least five years ago. Ought to be dry by now.

I think the best and cheapest way for anyone to have a constant supply of bowl blanks is to start roughing out blanks now and put them aside to air dry, boiled or sealed. Do some every day. Several months from now you should have plenty of stock and the first ones will be ready to turn. Continue to rough every day or so and you will have a lifetime supply. While waiting for time to catch up with the first bunch do something entirely different for a bit every day, such as improving tool control and skills by spindle turning, a guaranteed and time-honored path to face-turning expertise.

JKJ

[Prashun Patel]

Ethanol is considered hazardous waste. You should dispose of it accordingly; in my town, we have to drop it off once a month at the municipal center.

I used to soak in DNA. I didn't find much benefit over my favorite method now: wax and time.

I also found the DNA to discolor to black quite quickly. I was always afraid to put light colored woods in there.

[Dan Jechura]

I do the ruff turn green wood, Anchorseal the whole bowl and put it in the paper bag for 3 to 5 months. Check the moisture and if it is below 14 % remove it from the bag and let it finish drying on a shelf. I have 300 or more blanks waiting for me. If I am in a hurry and the bowl is smaller than 14 inchs I use the ruff turn and dry it in the microwave trick. Only takes me a day or so to dry it enough to finish turning. Tried DNA and did not like the expense. Good luck.

[john snowdon]

So it sounds like I'm heading back to the hardware store tomorrow to return the 4 gal of DNA I bought! Thanks for everyone's comments. My gal of Anchorseal will arrive Friday...I especially like the idea of turning a green bowl every night to build up my stash. Still doing something productive and will have the real fun next fall

john

[hu lowery]

Thanks to those that replied to me! I received a roll of plastic today, 18" x 1000' x 120 gauge. Should have the plastic covered. Received an inch or two of rain today too, bands still moving through and a tornado watch till seven this evening so I won't be cutting any blanks.

I will go turn a little while, turning every day, rain or shine. Just scraps into dipper handles but I'm using my skews far more than I have in the past and hopefully getting better with them Watching a Allan Batty hour plus video on the skew too, should help. Main thing that has helped is cranking up RPM to the level I don't dare have a catch!:D

Hu

[Brice Rogers]

Thanks to those that replied to me! I received a roll of plastic today, 18" x 1000' x 120 gauge. Should have the plastic covered. Received an inch or two of rain today too, bands still moving through and a tornado watch till seven this evening so I won't be cutting any blanks.

I will go turn a little while, turning every day, rain or shine. Just scraps into dipper handles but I'm using my skews far more than I have in the past and hopefully getting better with them Watching a Allan Batty hour plus video on the skew too, should help. Main thing that has helped is cranking up RPM to the level I don't dare have a catch!:D

Hu

I have a roll of the 18" stuff and a roll of 5" stuff. When I was trying to work with the 18" wide plastic, I had a lot of trouble - - the stuff wanted to fold over on itself and once it did, it wasn't letting go. I must have looked like a "one-armed paper hanger" when I was doing it. I think that it would have worked better if I would have had SWMBO (wife) help me. Good luck. Let me know if you develop a secret technique for handling that stuff.

[Justin Stephen]

The plastic wrap you guys are talking about, is it basically cellophane? If so, you might want to consider buying wide rolls from restaurant supply places instead. The commercial/restaurant boxes come in wide rolls and are very easy to use for wrapping larger items.

[John K Jordan]

The best plastic wrap I've found for general use is the strong, thicker stuff used by movers to wrap furniture. It doesn't cling like the kitchen wrap. At least the roll I have doesn't.

[hu lowery]

The best plastic wrap I've found for general use is the strong, thicker stuff used by movers to wrap furniture. It doesn't cling like the kitchen wrap. At least the roll I have doesn't.


From what little I have found out reading before buying there are two kinds of stretch wrap, blown and cast. The cast is lubricated both sides as would be expected to be able to free it, the blown on only one. The cast stuff isn't nearly as inclined to stick to itself.

The blown is very grabby, I can tell that already. I bought eighteen inch wide stuff on the theory if I don't like it that wide the bandsaw can make a six and twelve inch wide roll in a hurry!

I think this thick stuff will be a little easier to work with than something like kitchen wrap which can make me crazy. No chance to put any of this to the test yet, hopefully in the next few days or so.

Hu

[Leo Van Der Loo]

First it was LDD, then it was DNA, and now it seems to be plastic wrap ??

In my world the first two don’t work, Wine and Wiskey maker don’t have their products quickly move through the wood to evaporate, and the one or two turners that did try some real evaluation came to the conclusion that it didn’t work.

As I have said before MacMillan Bloedel wasn’t using DNA to quickly dry their wood, but still used the expensive kiln drying.

For those that remember Russ Fairfield, he said that he was in the group that did the testing that was done at McBlo, trying to find less costly and reliable controlled drying, the DNA was one of the test that did not work for them.

I have basically only turned green wood blanks with most to be returned again, turned from somewhere in the late 60ish and still do, there was a few years I had no lathe and was too busy with my new family, it has always been just a hobby that I really like.

Depending on the type of wood and the grain in it, I will turn to between 8 and 11% wall thickness, when there is nice straight grain, in woods like Maple Ash Cherry en Walnut, the 8% will be enough, with more wild grain and woods like Beech and Hickory I will go to the 10%, Hickory surprised me with how much it shrunk, as I had turned a bunch of Bitternut Hickory and at 9 or 10% wall thickness they are/were all just barely able to be returned to round.

IMO starting with wood that has no splits in the wood to start off with, is the most important part to get bowls you are able to dry without checks and splits, checks and splits never go away and usually get bigger.

Sawing a very thin slice off of a blanks end and carefully bending that slice will show if there is any splits in the wood already, if there is splits, keep on slicing till you are past the splits.

Next turn your piece in one go, do not turn a bit today and some more tomorrow, even when going for a break, pull a plastic bag over/around the piece of wood to prevent if from drying and splitting.

After roughing I put the piece in a brown paper bag, nothing else in there, unless you want to invite mould or a fungus from attacking your wet wood.

The bagged piece goes in a cool place with no wind/drafts and heating from the sun or other sources.

Now I don’t or didn’t live in Arizona, so there you will probably need double bagging, but all the other point are there just as important as they are over here.

I’ve been doing this for many years already and it works for me, probably for you as well.

Last time I had a chance to count my bowls is when I moved over here to our new address, and there were more than a 1000 (thousand) dry rough turned pieces, makes for few rough turning now, at a place where very few trees have no needles and are good for turning.

If you want to know why it works, well a wet bowl placed in a brown paper bag, will start to dry until the air in the bag is saturated, then your bag will get damp/wet and the bag will start to loose some of that wetness to the surrounding air, by doing that, the air inside the bag air will loose some moisture going into the paper of the bag, and again the bowl can loose some moisture, of course this is ongoing and it slows the drying of the wood, also all the wood inside the bag has the same moisture around it, and the endgrain is not able to dry as if it sat out in the air, giving the wood the time to dry slowly it will distort slowly, a good thing for drying your turned piece without splitting.

Long winded, but better than only telling you half the story IMO

330956 330958
Applewood bowls dry
330957

--

[Ron Rutter]

Leo. Did you make those shoes??

[Leo Van Der Loo]

No, and they are some kind of plastic I think :)

As we were moving in, LOML used those to be able to quickly slip in or out, when going back and forth in and out of the house, any rainy day or wet day and they are in use, and I better change shoes or boots if I want to stay out of trouble :D

[Scott Hackler]

I am a Dna user and for me and my location and my relative humidity....it works extremely well. I tried sealing rough outs with Anchorseal and storing them, worked well, but took 12+ months for a dry rough out. Tried paper bagging, lost 50% to cracks and rough outs took 2-3 months to dry. Tried paper bagging with shavings. About 30% loss, but introduction of mold and some wood (maple) would be stained permanently. Took 3-4 months to dry. Then I tried Dna. I soak my rough outs for 24+ hours and after removing them and letting them flash dry off the surface (30 minutes), I wrap with 2 layers of news paper, poke or cut holes in the paper at the open end of the bowl/form, date it and set it on a low self out of air movement in my climate controlled shop. Think 65 degrees usually in winter and 70 in summer. 4-6 WEEKS later I smell through the holes and if the alcohol smell is gone....bowl is dry. I have about 95-98% success rate doing this method and will continue to do so as it just flat out WORKS...for me. I know lots of turners that have similar success as well.

The Dna I buy is from Sherwin-Williams Paint and a 5 gallon bucket cost me about $55. I just add a little more to the old shop vac bucket I use for soaking, when the level goes down.

Don't discount a method that some of use find extremely good, because it didn't work for you. I am not here it argue the Dna method, only to offer up an experience that is different than some of the previous posters.

I think that the ingredients are listed but last time I looked there wasn't even a hazard label on my bucket and it said suitable for thinning and a fuel for some marine stoves.

[John K Jordan]

The Dna I buy is from Sherwin-Williams Paint

Scott,

What is the manufacturer on the label of your 5-gallon bucket?

The Sherwin Williams web site lists two makers: CSD/Startex and Crown (Packaging Service Company, Inc.)
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home-builders/products/catalog/denatured-alcohol/
From the MSDS sheets:

Startex- is 65-75% Ethanol, 15-25% Methanol
Crown - is 15-25% Ethanol, 70-75% Methanol

Both MSDS sheets contain health warnings including skin contact as an "acute hazard". You may want to use rubber gloves with either one.

JKJ

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I don’t use the health and safety hazard that DNA is, you can disagree with that of course.

I have never had a reason to go and use that stuff, as my results are right up there in the the high 90% area.

In the S.W. area of Ontario we have both very high and very dry humidity levels, depending the time of year it is.

My shop was heated in the winter, though my rough turnings never where dried there, as I had a better place with a more even temperature and humidity in our house.

Finding that you need to use that stuff is all up to you Scott, doesn’t mean you do need to though, but like is said, use whatever works for you :)

I have turned all kinds of wood and types dried with good results, that other turners have lots of problems with splitting and checking, as you can see with the Apple bowls in the last picture.

Her is what some other well known turner had to say about the DNA use.

330994

Oh ja this is also my opinion, and have had this for at least the last 30 years, and I will stay by that :)

[Justin Stephen]

Don't discount a method that some of use find extremely good, because it didn't work for you. I am not here it argue the Dna method, only to offer up an experience that is different than some of the previous posters.


Yup, sorry, but people can claim that DNA soaking doesn't work but it absolutely does work, and pretty darn well at that. I have had comparably sized pieces from the same tree roughed out, some DNA-ed, some air dried, and DNA soaking is most certainly faster and (based on my experience) at least a little less prone to cracking also.

[Scott Hackler]

Scott,

What is the manufacturer on the label of your 5-gallon bucket?

The Sherwin Williams web site lists two makers: CSD/Startex and Crown (Packaging Service Company, Inc.)
http://www.sherwin-williams.com/home-builders/products/catalog/denatured-alcohol/
From the MSDS sheets:

Startex- is 65-75% Ethanol, 15-25% Methanol
Crown - is 15-25% Ethanol, 70-75% Methanol

Both MSDS sheets contain health warnings including skin contact as an "acute hazard". You may want to use rubber gloves with either one.

JKJ


John, I will look tonight, to see if I still have the last original can. I had been dumping it in the shop vac bucket I use for soaking and ditching the can. But I will look.

I do find it interesting how some folks have great success using it and some do not and some that just don't care to use it for the hazard or that their method works good enough for them. For those of us who like it and use it, I compare to the ones who tried it and it didn't work. I have often wondered if the "mix" is different in the various regions or maybe it was the temp/humidity of the shops or the moisture of the wood after roughing or maybe the overall thickness of the vessels...or all of those reasons.

Anchorsealing works. End of story. BUT...... not fast enough for my taste. I don't have "turning time" every week or day. I need to be able to have a small amount of dry rough turned bowls sitting on the shelf for a quick finish or if the customer supplies the wood for personal reasons, to be able to return the finished item quickly (2 months). Like a funeral urn or anniversary plate...so on. Plus I have a short attention span and loose interest in shapes if I don't get right back to them quickly. Not to mention the failure rate dropped to almost nothing once I started using Dna. That was with trying multiple methods. So I stick with what works for me and suggest that if other turners kept getting a 40% loss.... they would most certainly look for a different method to dry green rough outs.

[Scott Hackler]

Leo, the reason why lumber mills don't use Dna for drying has nothing to do with the results, it is because of the added cost involved for the Dna. A commercial kiln works fantastic for drying lumber and it is reusable. They load train car sized kilns and the equivalent vat for Dna would 1) expensive, 2) dangerous for the flammable aspect and 3) take longer to air dry than just kiln drying in the first place.

Most of use don't own a kiln of have the space for once anyway. It is all about small batch drying...quickly... and the survival of the rough outs ....for me anyway.

:)

[John K Jordan]

I have often wondered if the "mix" is different in the various regions or maybe it was
the temp/humidity of the shops or the moisture of the wood after roughing or maybe the
overall thickness of the vessels...or all of those reasons.


I think you hit the nail on the head. No effort has been made to compare environments. I know of no reports from definitive experiments. Most I've read was anecdotal where someone tried a casual test and basically said one method or another seemed to work better. But if one method works better, how can we know his other method wasn't flawed?

For two people reporting with different results, is person A even using the same species of wood as person B? Identical processing, bowl shape and thickness? Same storage method, identical temperature and humidity profile, identical air movement? To properly compare any two person's methods of drying would require careful communication, consistent bowl shape and thickness, identical supplies (e.g., same paper bags, same batch of alcohol, same plastic wrap), careful environmental control and monitoring (temperature, humidity, air movement), months of effort, and consistent evaluation. Ain't gonna happen!

A definitive test would also need to be repeated multiple times with MANY identical turned bowls and conditions. I suspect no one hobbyist can afford do that. And are the test controls identical? For example, two people testing alcohol vs anchorseal may not have used the identical method for each, giving different results.

Even my own tests were casual. I tested the alcohol method with only a few bowls and I only tested once. Since I didn't see any significant improvement I quit because a) of the space and container needed, b) of the cost and hazards of the alcohol, and more important, c) my old slow method works fine for me! I'm perfectly happy to seal, put it on the shelf or in a cardboard box, and wait 3 months or 3 years - my success with that has been close to 100%. :)

I think you are doing things exactly right, if it works for you, excellent. If another method works for someone else, excellent.

BTW, have you checked into a small bowl kiln? I've never built one but I've read of people who did who claimed to be happy with the results.

JKJ

[John Keeton]

Sounds like the decision has been made on the DNA issue, but I will add a bit of info on the Anchorseal method. I seal ONLY the outside of the bowl and the rim, leaving the rough out to dry from the inside. I have lost none to cracks, and the only bad warping occurred on some ornamental cherry blanks. Otherwise, I have had excellent results on cherry, walnut and maple. Takes about 3-5 months for them to dry.

[robert baccus]

My experience exactly John. The sawmills don't use the stuff for nothing.

[hu lowery]

There is no way that we will all be testing the same materials in the same conditions. That being the case, the next best thing is volume of evidence. Much like various agencies find things unsafe, when you get enough evidence the there is an issue you can accept that general speaking the method is problematic.

To be blunt, kinda like when I go in for a major surgery, once I look at stats for other people and make a decision the stats don't mean a thing to me anymore. My surgery will be 100% or zero, and a process will work for me or not.

My issue is cracking. Almost certainly compounded by the trees I harvest and how I harvest them and my climate. No climate control for my wood. Another issue is I am a one man band and have been disabled since a back injury in 1988. I can't use best practices, I can only do the best I can.

I freely admit I have used about four gallons of anchorseal and only put three bowls in methanol. The anchorseal reduced cracking but it was still an issue. Another issue is in hot weather the wood is very wet and the air and wind dry things in a hurry. I cut apart two blanks and while I am anchorsealing one the other one is getting hairline cracks in the ends. Messy to go between rolling around blanks slapping anchorseal everywhere and using a chainsaw too. I don't want anchorseal all over my saw and safety gear.

As mentioned, I only tried soaking three roughed out blanks in methanol. All three cracked badly when I pulled them out of the methanol and put them in paper bags in my tin barn/shop with zero climate control but pretty good flow through ventilation in a breezy area. By then I had found that I was soaking in methanol instead of ethanol and yes I wasn't happy with the idea of getting methanol on me or breathing the fumes. I have concerns turning that wood too, if I turn a lot of it that had been methanol soaked.

Ultimately we all have to find out what works for us. If that turns out to be goat urine and slapping each bowl three times with an ox tail before putting it in only brown bags from one particular store, the rest of us can't knock it if it works for that guy.

Dry fast, dry slow, I just want to find a way that I'm not losing a lot more blanks than I am using. Almost everything I twice turn is going on the lathe with obvious cracks. Sometimes I glue these together before I start, sometimes I glue as I go. Almost invariably, other cracks appear as I turn. I hate to admit I enjoyed turning some industrial plastic for a hand wheel the other day just because I knew I wouldn't be fighting cracks.

Hu

[john snowdon]

Thank you all for your well thought out comments. As one in the early stage of this hobby, learning the favored methods of seriously more experienced turners is invaluable. After considering various PMs and this thread, I believe that the best way for me to learn and grow as a turner is to experiment and see what absolutely works best for me in my exact environment. It seems this is how everyone here came to their well formed beliefs, by trying various techniques, tools and methodology. You all have made this much easier for me by detailing the best ways to approach each of the 3 methods discussed above. I have enough pieces of free wood to try all three and will I feel I will become better by gaining the experience. What doesn't work can always keep the family warm in the wood stove, tho' I will stand back if I end up putting in a couple pieces of the DNA attempts. ;)

Many thanks!

John

[David Utterback]

Ironically, methanol was called wood alcohol years ago.:) As others have mentioned, it is toxic and readily absorbed through the skin as well as the lungs. I was unaware that commercial grades of dna contain large proportions of denaturing agents. This fact alone may be an explanation for the different results that are cited by posters.

I just quickly checked a protective glove chart (http://www.aps.anl.gov/Safety_and_Training/User_Safety/gloveselection.html) which indicates that latex, butyl rubber, nitrile and neoprene gloves provide sufficient protection for pure methanol. However, butyl rubber alone is sufficient for pure methyl ethyl ketone which an earlier poster listed as a major component in dna from one source. It seems if you are regularly using denatured alcohol for soaking blanks or as a solvent for shellac especially for French polish, you may want to check the msds for each source since the ingredients can vary widely.

[John K Jordan]

As one in the early stage of this hobby, learning the favored methods of seriously more experienced turners is invaluable

Paying attention to the methods is so valuable even for the very experienced, as long as they can keep their minds open!

When I started I knew nothing of forums or clubs or demos - it was just me, a cheap lathe, some tools from Sears, and two books. These days my brain almost explodes from the shear volume of turning information. I'm not so sure I wouldn't be overloaded if starting out turning today!

But you sure have plenty of company. An article in this month's AAW journal mentioned that more than 70% of people in their focus groups considered themselves beginner or intermediate turners. And based on the attentive crowds, questions, AND the focus of demonstrators at the symposium I went to last week there was as much or more interest in basic techniques as in how to do fancy things. Even the instructional sharpening demo by Glenn Lucas was packed!

JKJ

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Hu if I was in your case, having difficulties with the rough blanks starting to check before you are able to turn them and even slap the anchor seal on it, I would take some plastic bags with me and have them ready to pull over the chunk of wood right after cutting the piece from the log, that certainly would slow the drying.

Taking the part log into your shop out of the sun and wind should give you more time to then halve and further process your blank, and wrapping that bag around it again.

Spraying water on the blank en turning if quickly should certainly give you better results, give it a try, nothing to loose but some splits :D ;)