French Polish for neanderthals

[Brian Holcombe]

After one early experience with French polish I have shelved the idea for some time, but due to the fact that I cannot get outside for 4-5 months a year to apply finishes I've decided to start up with shellac once again.

The stuff out of the can seems pretty heavy on chemicals, so I am wondering if I take to mixing shellac flakes and everclear alcohol, am I creating a safe-to-use finish that will not be omitting fumes? After some years of chemical exposures (car racing and oil finishes) I've developed a sensitivity to it.

I'm very happy with using shellac as a quick wipe-on finish, so long as I keep it low build I really enjoy the result. However for things such as veneered doors I'd like to revisit french polishing as a nice way to add a little bit more depth of protection. I doubt that I will french polish much, but I think it would be nice to add to the mix.

[Curt Putnam]

https://www.shellac.net/french_polisher%27s_handbook.html should be of interest.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Wow, I never thought I would see the day I could actually contribute to one of Brian's threads :D. I recently switched over to grain alcohol instead of the denatured. I'm in a closed basement and I have had fine results. I really don't notice a difference other then the smell. I'm not sure you can get the 190 proof in every state but you can here. That bottle was $30, many many times more expensive then denatured but I think it's worth it.

330516

[Christian Thompson]

I think if you are fine around liquor you should be good with shellac and everclear. I used it on a tea caddy I built for my mom that I wanted to be food safe. Supposedly shellac is edible and you can obviously drink the everclear (in very small doses :-).

[Andrew Hughes]

Brian I'm surprised your not using fresh shellac. That stuff in a can I don't what's in it but it's nothing like fresh flakes.
We all know real cheese doesn't come in a can. Same with Shellac.:)
http://www.shellacshack.com

[Mel Fulks]

I've used Everclear ,but besides being expensive it's getting impossible to buy in a lot of places. I like Behkol ,works much better than most DA ,still ship able ,and cheaper than Everclear.

[Stewie Simpson]

The application of multiple coats of shellac to fill the wood grain and create a gloss finish does involve a great deal of practice and experimentation. Avoiding the pre made shellac is a good starting point. imo

Stewie;

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/small%20handle%20tiger%20myrtle/_DSC0089_zpsosk7a7yi.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/small%20handle%20tiger%20myrtle/_DSC0089_zpsosk7a7yi.jpg.html)

[Prashun Patel]

i used to mix my own but now just buy zinsser sealcoat shellac by the gallon. If you want to mix your own I can give you some denatured alcohol. In fact if you are new to padding shellac u might want to mix a little isopropyl alcohol in there. It will increase the open time a critical couple seconds.

As far as fumes, you can get a headache from ethanol fumes. I would only do it if you have a way to vent your basement.

I find oil based poly or Danish oil type finishes more friendly to apply Ina basement. Ymmv

[Patrick Walsh]

I have been using Waterlox in my basement shop for a couple years now.

In my oppinion it is a fairly low odor when compared to various the other options. I also really like the results i get with it.

I could be immune to smell though as i was a finisher for many years. I also have built up sensativities to various chemicals as a result as it sounds you also have.

Not Good!

[Allan Speers]

If you can't get Everclear, you can buy 200 proof ethanol here for just a little more (with shipping), but only by the gallon:

http://www.kleenxtract.com/our-products


$80 / gallon, plus $25 hazmat shipping surcharge.
========================================


This place sells it in a case of 24 1 pint containers, but I don't know the price:

http://www.capitolscientific.com/reagent-chemicals-and-lab-chemicals/pure-ethanol-200-proof-ethyl-alcohol

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Gents, this has been very helpful. I think the Behkol brand looks pretty good, based on the MSDS.

Its been a very long time since I've used anything other than oil finishes, I used buttonlac some years ago, but made the mistake of using hardware store DNA, which did not do well even with an open garage, mask and gloves. So I have taken some time to revisit shellac.

Oil finishes don't bother me as much, but they stink the house up very terribly which is also harmful to my health, for other reasons...I'm also trying to avoid metallic dryers, they're not great to breathe in.

I won't use anything with methanol in it, methanol Is pretty nasty stuff.

I can get a pretty good crossbreeze in the basement, so as long as it is not harmful the smell alone will not bother me.

[Patrick Chase]

Brian I'm surprised your not using fresh shellac. That stuff in a can I don't what's in it but it's nothing like fresh flakes.

It's easy enough to find out from their patents and other documentation: Shellac, Ethanol, Isopropanol, Methyl Isobutyl Ketone (MIBK), Water.

No methanol. It's actually pretty tame stuff as finishes go. Note that I'm not advocating that anybody should use it, just pointing out that it isn't any great mystery and isn't particularly toxic.

EDIT: Looks like they've eliminated the MIBK. Their current MSDS only lists Ethanol and Isoropanol (2-Propanol) as volatiles.

[Brian Holcombe]

Alright, off to a good start (IMO) on this humidor I'm building;

This was going to be a valet for my front hall, but I sort of goofed a bit with the dimensions, making in wayyyyy too tall. Going to hold a good number of cigars though...

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/E2D3FB68-F5AA-41C0-8103-ADACC397E15D_zpspcrxr7g2.jpg

Got the pores mostly filled in the top and on the front. The left yet is to be worked on.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/4BB46B82-5ABC-4613-A257-9EADC59F0256_zpsjwhikr7w.jpg

I made a series of these boxes some years ago with nothing but machine tools, they're a heck of a lot easie with mostly hand tools. I may well post up the liners as I make them.

[Steve Voigt]

Looks great, Brian.
If you're still looking for info, you might want to check out Konrad Sauer's Instagram feed--he has a bunch of posts on french polishing (and plenty of plane porn).
If you like oil finishes but want to avoid metallic driers, you could check out the "tried and true" finishes--LV sells them. No personal experience; some people like them, others don't.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Steve, certainly a long ways to go before it's finished, but I feel I'm making some good headway and it wasn't all that time consuming like previous attempts.

Thanks for your suggestions as well, I will certainly look into them both. I've been wiping shellac onto low impact furniture pieces and I'm pretty happy with the result, it's great as a high build or low build finish and I presume it to be roughly on par with nitro lacquer for protection. For Anything that will see more wear and tear I will probably stick with Waterlox.

[Scott DelPorte]

Looks great Brian, are you using pumice when filling?

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Scott! I am using pumice to fill the pores. This box is in Indian rosewood, so it has fairly large pores.

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

What is the reason for using pumice ? if one wet sand with oil with 320 grit, wont the pores just get filled with the sanding dust ?

[Brian Holcombe]

Lasse, the pumice will turn clear, also rather than build coats and sand them down, this method seems to move around the shellac and push it into the pores. All in it took me about 1/2 hour to fill the pores. The shellac shrank down a bit, revealing them again slightly, but I expect they will disappear after some more bodying sessions.

[Chris Hachet]

I have been using Waterlox in my basement shop for a couple years now.

In my oppinion it is a fairly low odor when compared to various the other options. I also really like the results i get with it.

I could be immune to smell though as i was a finisher for many years. I also have built up sensativities to various chemicals as a result as it sounds you also have.

Not Good!


+1 for Waterlox, although with blotchy woods like Maple, Cherry and Pine I often use a quick coat of (dewaxed) shellac to seal the wood. Love the Humidor!

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Chris! I'll post up the interior as I go along, I've had some Elie Bleu hardware (humidity device and hygrometer) sitting around for an embarrassing amount of time. It's now currently in use in a humidor that i don't particularly like, which is really better off as a spare for unexpected overflow.

[Robert Hazelwood]

Lasse, I've used the sanding dust with oil method on a walnut rifle stock and it takes forever. And then the finish shrinks after a few weeks and the pores reemerge. I would think the pumice would be ideal (for shellac at least) since you don't have to sand so much wood just to create pore filling material. I'd like to try it the next time I want a glass finish on something.

And yeah, that humidor is looking terrific as usual, Brian.

[Skip Helms]

I've been French polishing guitars for about 25 years and think you are on the right track using grain alcohol. I do some of the clean-up with denatured stuff from Lowes but the mixes are done with booze. Pore filling is more of a guerilla operation. First I do a very gentle wash coat to seal lighter woods for color. I scrape back with a razor blade that has been slightly rounded on a grinder with 90 degree edges and "safed" rounded corners. Then I'll slap some very heavy coats on. No oil at this point.

Don't worry about making it look smooth or consistent. All you want is build. Then mix in some sawdust and pumice or powdered cuttlefish bone (the stuff for parrots to sharpen their beaks) with alcohol and wet-or-dry sand it at 220. Let it dry and dry sand it with 320 open-pore paper. It will flash-off fast so keep a squeeze bottle of alcohol in one hand and the fad in the other.

The stuff you ground into the pores will shrink so expect to do this at least once again with 320 or 400 W-O-D until you have a dull flat surface. From there, you will get a really rapid build and don't have to keep knocking down the bumps. You do have to be careful about the fad surface. These are called grinders and you will wear a hole through the cover fast. Change it often and look for bits of cloth stuck in the pores. I use worsted wool covers and switch to linen for the gloss stage.

Once it's built to the point where I'm not worried about sanding through to the wood, I'll do a wet/dry 400 sand using walnut oil. You're looking for consistent sheen and also for streaks where successive coats didn't adhere well and got blotchy. At any point, be prepared to sand all the way back and do it over. It's kind of cool because that's when you get the first look at the finished piece. Continue to build and sand back every 6-8 coats using as little oil as possible to keep the fad from sticking. Always stiff it once or twice after that to remove any oil on the surface. I usually stiff it again to start a session just to be sure.

Good luck and have fun, Skip

[Brian Holcombe]

Thank you both!

Skip, thanks for the tips, much appreciated!

Your procedure for pore filling sounds great. Worsted wool and linen also sound much better than cotton. These cotton covers are a pita, so I will switch to what you suggest and go at it again.

I've been avoiding oil at this point, since I think it may have been one of the reasons it took me so long a few years back when I attempted French polish the first time around.

[Scott DelPorte]

Hi Skip, I use linen covers from the start and just replace them if they get holes. Does the worsted wool cover wear better or build the shellac faster?
Thanks
Scott

[Brian Holcombe]

The worsted wool isn't working all that well for me, it's stronger than the cotton and wears better but tends to leave fussies in the shellac. I think I will try linen and see how that does. Only have cotton and wool on hand.

My wool is a fine twill, maybe a 100's would work better.

[Allan Speers]

The worsted wool isn't working all that well for me, it's stronger than the cotton and wears better but tends to leave fussies in the shellac. I think I will try linen and see how that does. Only have cotton and wool on hand.

My wool is a fine twill, maybe a 100's would work better.


Wool is good for inside the tampon, not the covering. Linen is the classic material for outside, though I like to use lint-free cloths as sold for photography, (lens cleaning) electronics, and the like.


Hey, Skip: Nice post! I just learned something new. :)