Suggestions or Stories for Finding new customers????

[Melissa Wollenweber]

Just curious if anyone has any tips or suggestions, on getting some of the bigger/repeat jobs. Or maybe even stories of how they really got their business up and rolling in the laser engraving industry?

If anyone cares to read a novel, here's my background: Boss got REALLY mad that I was pregnant and I was "laid off" (long, very illegal story, but she got away with it). I saw it coming, knew a bit about laser engraving and was interested in it for the work from home aspect. I'm establishing myself in a small tourist town in SW Colorado with my 40 watt Epilog Zing 24. I'm getting ready to send the kids off to grandma's so I can hit up the local retail shops to offer things I make and do promotional items. I do a lot of my own designs, am trying ideas on things I can create and sell (mostly kid related items), and play with my machine a lot, doesn't feel like work, Yay!
In the meantime, I do get random, "one time" type jobs from friends/family, and I'm starting to get the word of mouth customers and customers from the time I've spent at craft fair booths, etc. I'm all over the social media with local pages, and have a Facebook page, and website. They often turn into repeat customers, but haven't gotten any type of routine, somewhat reliable, or larger jobs. My husband has a steady income but not much and I'm getting kind of tired of living in poverty and eating Ramen. I was hoping to upgrade food when I graduated college. I am looking for even just a little bit better customer base so I can upgrade from Ramen to Mac and cheese (hehehe, ok, that's an exaggeration).
I'm getting closer to more legit customers and I'm sure patience for that kind of work is important, but does anyone have any tips or stories of how they REALLY got their heels dug in? Maybe avenues I haven't thought of? Someone else in the area does trophies so I won't step on their toes by doing trophies but otherwise, I'm not picky and mostly shameless. Ha! Thanks in advance!

[David Somers]

Hey Melissa!

I am curious. What is it exactly you envision yourself doing with the laser? For example....are you hoping to do crafty things since you mentioned craft fairs and kids things and the like? Or are you thinking of moving into promotional items and trophy's and what not? Or some other niche that is intriguing you? And what kind of competition do you have in the area for laser work?

My neighbor here in West Seattle (who just moved to India following his wife's teaching career) had started a laser business in his garage. He was doing trophies and awards and tags and that type of thing. I don't believe he ever advertised, but instead worked off word of mouth. He started with a smaller Epi like you. He ended with enough business by word of mouth that he ended up buying a second used laser. Then things got busy enough that his small garage was getting too small so he got a small shop in West Seattle. It was at the south end of the business district in West Seattle and not visible from the sidewalk, but the word of mouth work he was getting was sufficient for him to get a 3rd larger Epi. He was doing mostly engraving so he could operate 3 machines by himself. Before he sold the business he had quite busy. Again, trophy's and awards and commemoratives for school teams, private sports groups (you know....the local little league and adult leagues in anything from flag football to bridge leagues). He did stuff for companies doing up thank you's and appreciations for employees, and cups and mugs and glass and acrylic trophies for various things. He also ended up getting a small micro sand blaster (SCM I believe) because the engraving he could do on glass was so much better and faster with that on glass than the laser was. His laser glass work looked good, but I saw the amount of variation in quality he had on large runs and could see why he was not happy with the laser for most of that work. The sand blaster did much better work with little to no waste.

By the time he sold the business in the late Autumn 2015 he was quite busy. And that didn't count walk in work for people who had all sorts of little one off requests. He sold the business to an existing laser business with a similar focus that operated out of the neighborhood of Ballard. They wanted to expand to a second location and so bought his business out.

He drew almost exclusively from people in West Seattle. I think our population here is about 25,000? It is a bit of a physically isolated neighborhood compared to other neighborhoods in Seattle so it is uncommon for folks from outside West Seattle to come in here looking for businesses. Hope that gives you some comparison with your town in CO.

I have another friend who focuses on toys for kids. He sells only on Etsy I believe. At least I have never seen his stuff in Seattle. He does a combination of laser and CNC work on his toys.

One thought on selling through stores vs selling on Etsy or a similar venue. Stores can take a large chunk of your earnings. I do a lot of wood turning and most galleries and stores around here do a 60/40 split with them getting the 60. And they often make you sign an agreement not to undercut the price they offer in store. So if you plan on selling through stores or galleries AND on an Etsy like site you might find that limiting if you have not given it careful thought.

Hope that helps! And I do love that fact that you have help from your spouse so you are not forced to get out mid-river right away and have some time to learn the machine and explore your available niches. That is such a valuable cusion to have as you get started!

Dave

[Mike Null]

Do not be tempted to put your stuff into stores on consignment. Do not ever assume that because your best friend or neighbor says they'd buy an item that they will. If you want proof just ask them for the money.

First and foremost, engraving is a service. It is not a product. We have a very small handful on this forum who make products or engrave products for sale--but most offer service. That's where you're most likey to find repeat business.

[Bruce Volden]

+1 on Mike.

Bruce

[Dave Sheldrake]

Make that +2

[Melissa Wollenweber]

Thank you so much for your response! I really appreciate it!
That is so awesome that your friend was able to build up like that. That's what I kind of foresee happening to me over the next couple years (or at least hope for).
I will admit that I didn't have an EXACT plan for the laser. My knowledge of lasers actually came from my FANTASTIC Aunt who runs a business out of her garage in Denver. She happened to know of a couple people that needed pretty routine jobs for parts that they manufacture. And being in Denver, she has a good client base. My husband accepted a position in Durango, CO so we live in a neighboring town with a whopping 2,400 people. HA! But the Southwest is very close knit so I can market to several areas including Durango. My interest is in kids toys and the random items that are meaningful to people (memory books, clocks, etc.). However, being in a smaller area, I don't anticipate that being a market I can make a lot of income off of so I am open to promotional items, small signs, items for tourist shops, etc. I'd be thrilled if I were one of the lucky ones to land something like engraving a logo onto a product that someone makes and sells quite a bit of, but no idea how to come across that without dumb luck. And I attempted etsy but there wasn't really any traffic so I haven't renewed. :( Maybe I'll try again when I have more and can pay the advertising for more traffic.
Funny thing about putting things in a shop, shortly after I posted this, someone saw some of my work I posted on a Facebook group I made for local artists and contacted me about a shop opening up and they wanted to know if I'm interested. It get a decent amount of foot traffic and I have the choice between 60/40 consignment (I get 60, they get 40) or renting space and getting 100%. So I think I'll be renting some space! I hadn't considered them having any agreements of undercutting pricing! So thank you! I'll verify that at my next meeting. The nice thing about smal towns is that people are very supportive of each other and the owners/renters are women that support themselves through art and seem to be very supportive of each other. And there's a florist attached to the building who does weddings and said she would send people to me for wine glasses, guest books, etc. Woohoo! Funny how I post this out of desperation and I get a call!!!!! YAY!
Oh and because of people asking about vinyl decals and some jobs better suited for sandblasting, I'm researching those for FUTURE expansion.
Sorry... to write another novel! Oh well, hopefully this helps someone in the future too! :)
Just a thought though, my husband is a Navy veteran who did photography for the Navy. He graduated with a degree in computer programming but actually works for a newspaper trafficking ads (the exact person I despise when an ad pops up on my screen!). He builds awesome websites on the side. Maybe it would be worth it to (when he has time) build a website dedicated to laser engravers, what services engravers can offer (seems like lots of places don't think of laser engraving as an option because they're not familiar with it) and has lists of businesses offering services and what they specialize in along with links to their website or contact info and photos of what we're capable of. He would be picture perfect for the person to build it. I know some places like Epilog and Laserebits have lists but it's not dedicated to the purpose. Or maybe there is one out there I'm not familiar with???? Just a thought.

[Melissa Wollenweber]

Thanks! I was kind of afraid that very few people come up with a couple of their own products to make and sell. I'm all up for offering the service rather than a product but I do have some "products" that I've designed. Seems like to stick with a "product" would require a combination of the perfect situation and moment with a stroke of genius... and maybe winning the lottery. Lol.
That's funny you mention the part about friends! I have a few friends and family that order gifts from me to be supportive of me. They're fantastic. But the majority of friends say that they would "totally" buy that product from me but it's more like they would totally love that item FROM me as a gift for them or their kids. Hahaha. I love them but....

[Scott Shepherd]

Hi Melissa, welcome to Sawmill Creek, and congratulations on starting your journey!

100% agree with Mike, and will also add that your location is irrelevant to anything. Build a good website, that's my advice. We get customers from all over the world from our site. Do NOT underestimate the power of a website.

[Bert Kemp]

60/40 whoa horsey thats crazy and I don't even sell stuff for the most part. I'm not going to do 100% of the work so someone else can set my stuff on a shelve and collect 40% Just the fact that in order for you to make any money at all you have to have a mark up that would be cost prohibitive to most. We have a couple places in town That I approached and they wanted 30% which I guess is pretty common rate for consignment and even at that I told them I wasn't interested. One of the gift stores called me back and ask what I wanted for a couple of the item I showed them. I gave them a price I wanted and was happy with and they said ok we'll take 10. Now when they sell a 3 or 4 they call and want me to replenish so they always have 9 or 10 on the shelve. So they sell about 3 or 4 a month and get 18 bucks each so bring me 60+ a month. Like I said I don't sell stuff but this helps buy materials for the stuff I give away.Wish I could get to more shops to do this LOL .
But the point is your not going to make money doing consignment the people running the store make all the money for very little work.

[David Somers]

Hey Bert!!!

I get the feeling that as the store quality goes up so does the percentage. In otherwords, a small local shop carrying your simple toys or other items would not likely have as high a take as one that would carry higher end toys and items, and a shop that is more of a gallery would take the most. But my experiences here in West Seattle and Seattle in general, and from the Big Island of Hawaii was a 60/40 split for almost everything except in a rinky dink store. There was one shop in my little community that carried local artists (the owner was an artist himself) and he was very kind to artists and did a 40/60 split rather than 60/40. And he also didnt apply claims to your works sales price elsewhere other than through a gentlemans agreement not to undercut him locally.

In a small town like Melissa's I could see things being very different.

Melissa, with what you described above you might be able to do a combo of work and keep yourself busy and a bigger income coming in. If you made some fun special sale items that stores can carry.....your toys and small gift items...perhaps some things that are special to the town or area......and price them well enough to be earning a bit off them, then you could use those items to draw people to your services offered with the machine. So, perhaps you have a number of interesting toys you make. And you have some key chains and bookmarks and whatnot that are done up with something unique to the area. For example, I know you are surrounded by National Park Service sites and other sites of National Significance. Bookmarks and ornaments and little keepsake boxes and pocket knives all with recognized symbols from those areas might do well in shops all over the towns in your area. You might check out the National Park gift shops and see what is available there and if they are not already flooded with lasered gifts you might run home and do up a number of things specific to their sites and come back and talk to their buyer. Be aware that you would not be working with the National Park itself. They may have a gift shop but it would be focused on education and books and things. You want the gift shop for the Concession in the Park. And you do have a number of parks near you. Hovenweep, Fort Lewis, Mesa Verde, Chaco Canyon to name a few. Plus National and State Forest Areas and BLM lands that often have some sort of Visitor Center with a small gift shop. If a laser company has not already glommed onto them you might find a nice niche there.

If you want, I can email you some photos of the last National Park Gift Shop I was in (Acadia National Park in ME). They had a slug of lasered gift items in the Concession Gift Shop (The Jordon Pond House is the Concession there) Just PM me with your Email address.

Anyway....the point is to make up items that represent your local area if all you want is to sell in the local stores. And perhaps offer to personalize them. That would draw people in to you where they are exposed to more of your services than to your gift items.

All kinds of things you can do.

Ohhhhh. And one other caution. Dont go nuts getting into too many things at one time. You can get really fractured that way.

[Glen Monaghan]

Ever hear of wholesale? Depending on your product and market, you (the maker) sell your product to the retailer for as little as 30% but more commonly 40-50% of the retail price. So the retailer gets 50, 60, maybe 70% of the sale. In return, you don't have to deal with onesie-twosie orders, the daily grind of directly facing end consumers, setting up and operating your own brick and mortar sites, so on and so forth. You may freak out at the thought of giving the retailer all of 40% for the privilege of selling your goods for you, but there are a lot of people who would give a few teeth to get someplace like W@lmart or EB to carry their product and happily part with 60% to get the deal. Generally, the greater the retailer's risk and/or the more of a commodity you are dealing with, the higher the retailer's cut.

[Melissa Wollenweber]

OH MY GOD! Thank you for the idea! I have made ornaments and boxes with local town names on them. There's a local shop that sells only things made in Colorado and she asked me if I could add to her frames. I have really neat ideas for picture frames (if I get it figured out, I'll post it here) but haven't found affordable frames or an affordable way to make my own (Dad is a carpenter and can make them if I get him the supplies, he's getting ready to retire). But she is looking for something in a cheaper price range which just isn't worth the cost and time unless I figure something out. But I have to admit that I'm embarrassed because I never thought of taking advantage of the local forest service places and national monuments! It's especially embarrassing because my degree is in Anthropology, Sociology, and Psychology and I used to do archeology!!!!! Palm to the face!!! I will definitely look into that market and would love to see some pictures! I'll PM you.
At first I about gagged at 60/40! But I could see that in a place with expensive rent. This afternoon I was offered quite a bit of store front space for $175 a month and I keep 100% of my sales and allowed to take custom orders. And some of the "consigner" commissions goes towards "renters" portion of the rent so my rent may actually drop depending on the month. And it's in a busy location considering. They're also going to offer me deals on rent in exchange for help with graphic design, advertising, and making signs. I hope its a win-win for everyone! But we hash out details in a meeting soon. SO HAPPY because this fell in my lap today thanks to a social media group I started four days ago which currently has 398 participants. I guess I should put more faith in social media! Between my meeting this afternoon and this forum, I went from desperation to feeling pretty excited! Thank you so much!!!!
Oh and I forgot to answer you that there is another engraver in this tiny town but he primarily does name badges for large companies in other towns so he told me I'm not stepping on his toes. Plus someone does trophies but I haven't met them yet.

[Bert Kemp]

Dave The shops I approached outside my small town were very High end stores and one artist gallery. I live between two of the biggest tourists town in Arizona, Sedona and Cave Creek both are year round tourist traps and they were 30%, but the point still being the shops are making the money not the people supplying the shops.Most shops want your product dirt cheap so when they put their 30% or more on and the tourist still will buy them. If they give you a fair price then with their markup the stuff sits on the shelves no one makes money.

[Melissa Wollenweber]

Thank you! I do have a website but it's in the process of being built. It got put on hold while my husband built a site he actually gets paid for. I just haven't had a lot of faith in it bringing in much business. But after the social media experience I've had over the last few days and your comment... I'll give it more faith. Thanks again!

[Melissa Wollenweber]

I could understand a shop wanting a higher cut if they're high end with high rent to pay or places wanting a higher cut when ordering a large quantity of the same thing. But I would freak if they want a bunch of different things in a little shop at 60 or 70%. Mostly because of the time it takes to do all kinds of different little things. But 30, or 300 of one item and they can sell it... I would consider it for the right price, I've got kids to feed though. :)

[David Somers]

Thanks Bert! 30% is way better than 50 or 60!! Sedona has artists???? Go figure! I thought all they sold were dream catchers and crystals? <silly grin> (I have good friends with a place in Sedona so I am a bit familiar with the town. Never looked into the retail environment though. That is an excellent deal they are offering compared to other towns and cities I have been in. Though of course, Hawaii has no bearing on reality whatsoever. I think the airlines require people to leave their brains at home when they go there based on the prices I saw people paying for things.)

[Scott Shepherd]

Thank you! I do have a website but it's in the process of being built. It got put on hold while my husband built a site he actually gets paid for. I just haven't had a lot of faith in it bringing in much business. But after the social media experience I've had over the last few days and your comment... I'll give it more faith. Thanks again!

Just for the record, we get new customers EVERY SINGLE WEEK from our website. Don't overlook it's importance.

[Dee Gallo]

Hi Melissa, welcome to the Creek! I am going to comment in the opposite direction, since you have gotten good advice from a lot of guys who know their stuff well. You would do well to follow their lead.

While you get your feet wet, developing your skills with designing, computer graphics and laser techniques: think about what is known as "niche marketing". It is an elusive category but lucrative if you do it correctly.

By this I mean, think about what you love, something you know a lot about and are able to become something of an expert in a pretty narrow field. Then, lurk on groups and sites to find out what the more rabid collectors, buyers, users like and want and most importantly, dream about. These are the people who have enough time and money to buy things at a higher price point that might be considered "frivolous" or "luxuries". Create something that they will love immediately and cannot live without even though they don't know it. It is not easy, but when you find your niche, you will have more work than you can handle.

I design and make limited edition mah jong sets. You would think this is a tiny market, and you'd be right. But I sell out before I am finished designing each edition I make, have a long waiting list of buyers and a very loyal following. The only "advertising" I have is a website "museum" and a Facebook page... most sales are from word of mouth and repeat buyers. You can take a look at my site if you like. This enterprise makes me as much as I used to make as a teacher yearly, but I work a lot less hours and it is a lot of fun. If I wanted to work more, I could double that income. I am the only person in the world doing this right now.

The key is to make sure you produce a superior product and give superior customer service, which is something everyone should aim for anyway. But I do not recommend trying to make a living from $5 items unless you are into handling huge volumes. I prefer to mail out 20-30 packages a year to make my money, with more people begging to be on my waiting list for next year.

Just food for thought, you have to follow your own path.

cheers, dee

[David Somers]

Dee has some very good thoughts! About a month ago I was talking with a gentleman who makes his living doing nothing but game boards. Cribbage, monopoly, Scrabble. He has come up with some lovely designs, and will do one off requests for special, personalized boards. Admittedly he is working with a CNC router. But the same concept applies to the laser. He does extremely well and the only complaint those of us who met him had was he was not asking nearly enough for his work. They were beautiful pieces. As Dee said, a lucrative niche can be a great way to make a living. And satisfy some passion you may have as well. One caution though. Don't let the work take away your love for the niche by turning it into common work. My wife is an avid gardener and had thought about going in to landscaping work. She even went so far as to do a horitculture degree and along the way decided that she really did love being a gardener....for her self and by herself. It was her release and creative outlet and she realized doing it for pay was killing that aspect of it for her. So be cautious of your approach to this.

Dee.....Along that line....what do you do to keep your work on the Mah Jong pieces exciting and enjoyable for you as opposed to it becoming simply a job?

Dave

[Mike Null]

Bert

What the customer charges for your item should be of no concern to you. Your concern is that you get paid what you want. To the contrary, I would be pleased if my customer could sell my item at better than 50%--then they have a real interest in selling it.

In the retail world 50% is normal mark up. That is an item that costs $3 sells for $6. (no that's not 100% when using the retail method)

[Dee Gallo]

Dee.....Along that line....what do you do to keep your work on the Mah Jong pieces exciting and enjoyable for you as opposed to it becoming simply a job?

Dave

You are correct Dave - it CAN kill your passion if you are not careful! I started with a small edition of 10 sets, which sold out in 4 days. I increased to 20, then 30 then 40 then 50 sets. This almost killed me, and I went back down to 30. They still sell out in a week or less. The most fun for me is the designing, the research and the cogitating about what I'm doing. I enjoy the production too, it's kind of zen after you know what you are doing. The feedback from my customers is so enthusiastic, it's like a drug that keeps you going! I am able to satisfy the old teacher in me by sharing a lot of Chinese traditions and folklore, feed the artist in me by coming up with beautiful designs, and reward myself with fame and fortune of sorts. It's all about balance.

I feel like it is worth it because I can charge enough to make it pay for my time and overhead without it taking over my life. I generally confine the production to the winter months when I can't really do anything outside anyway.

[Kev Williams]

This year marks the 50th anniversary of when my dad bought his first engraver, a Scripta 3D something or other. (I was 11 years old when I engraved my first aluminum ID plate)-

My dad learned to engrave on an old Gorton 3-U panto-mill at Hill Field, during his stint as a machinist there after WWII. He left hill around '59 to work for Litton Industries, as a machine shop supervisor. It so happened Litton had a small engraving machine up in a loft, I got to watch him engrave some desk name plates when I was about 8 years old. He just loved engraving, and bought his own machine in '66. It started as a hobby...

As a few years went by, many of his Litton co-workers found other jobs, which led to name badge and desk sign work, requests for ID tags, a few trophy plates- Pretty soon he was making pretty good spare time money just from his old co-workers. As more time went by, his co-worker's new co-workers became aware of my dad-- and some of them moved on to new jobs...

and so on, and so on, and so on---

In 1969 we moved into this house, and dad made the business a partnership, him, my mom and me. I was a 'name only' partner until the mid 70's when I came to work full time, and have been doing this ever since. From then until about 15 years ago, we had our name in the yellow pages. That's been the extent of any advertising we've ever done. While times got tough a few times, to this day we have never had to look for work. Pure word of mouth since day one.

So heaven help me if I ever DO have to search out jobs, that's one skill I DON'T have! ;)

[David Somers]

Cool story Kev!!! Thanks!

Dave

[Jay Selway]

Dee your work is beautiful. Just checked out your site.

[Dee Gallo]

Dee your work is beautiful. Just checked out your site.

Thanks Jay, I do my best :)