Walnut Cabinet

[Prashun Patel]

Caveat: I'm not doing this entirely by hand, but since my dovetailing is largely manual, I figured it's fair.

I'm making a small walnut cabinet and started dovetailing the carcass today.

I finally started using the 'blue painters tape' trick to mark my pins. On this dark wood, I can finally see the layout lines. The FWW article that suggested this only put tape on the top of the pin board. I found it useful to use 2" wide tape and tape all 3 sides. True to the article, it gave me more confidence to saw up to the line. Having the tape on the sides makes cutting straight so much easier for me.

Last, I'm not sure why I haven't seen something like this before. When cutting, paring, marking, measuring dovetails, I have 3-10 tools on the bench at any time, half of which want to roll off the edge as soon as I turn my back. A notched 2x4 makes a nice tool till (holds 'em 'TIL you get around to hanging them properly.)

I know, I don't cope very close to the line. That's because I clean up the bottoms with a pin router.

[Brian Holcombe]

Awesome, looking forward to seeing how you progress.

Will this be a wall mounted cabinet?

[Jim Koepke]

Last, I'm not sure why I haven't seen something like this before.

You may have seen it but didn't register.

Here is something I made for a chisel rack and posted many years ago:

330328

It keeps them from rolling, I have a couple of them. Just glued blocks on a strip of wood.


I know, I don't cope very close to the line. That's because I clean up the bottoms with a pin router.

330329

Just the same, I am looking forward to the rest of the story.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

Brian-

Wall cabinet. It's going to be unconventional in that the doors will not completely cover the insides. It's an experiment.

Jim, Paring with the grain is fun and efficient. Chopping across the grain on those base lines is painful, ugly, and hurts my elbows.

Nice rack!

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

That looks good. Keep updating

[Christopher Charles]

ooooh, new build thread! Looking forward to seeing your next work develop, Prashun. Even if there is a pin router involved :)

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I have not seen the painter's tape trick. Am I right that you are laying the pins out on the tape, then cutting the tape with a marking knife, and then using the edge of the tape as a guide? Or are you just sawing through the tape?

[Derek Cohen]

I have not seen the painter's tape trick. Am I right that you are laying the pins out on the tape, then cutting the tape with a marking knife, and then using the edge of the tape as a guide? Or are you just sawing through the tape?

Hi Nicholas

I have had articles on my website at least two years before the FWW mag article author "claimed it" as a new method. These two should give you added perspective ...

Early one ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfblindDovetailsinJarrah.html

A more recent one ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[David Eisenhauer]

Looking forward to see this as it progresses. I fully understand tools begging to get swept off onto the concrete shop floor and/or rolling for the edge at the drop of the hat. I have to use a 4" tool well in the center of my table just for the peace of mind at the very least. My marking gauges, small square, small ruler, pencil and marking knives live in one well, chisels as I am working in another well, extra dogs and clamping pads in another. I believe you said you are using a coping saw to cut out the waste on the pins - please, what saw brand? what tooth configuration? I have been making vertical cuts with my dovetail saw in the waste area down to just short of the base line, chop the bulk of the waste out with a chisel, then chop/pare to the base line. I use my Moxon face chop as a flat for my chisel to ride on to get a flat bottom. I would like to move to sawing out the bulk of the waste, but do not at all love my many year old cheapo coping saw that does not seem to really tension the blade and the blade itself must have around 167 TPI or something like that as slow as it cuts. Blue tape forever!

[Prashun Patel]

Due credit to derek. I do find matt kenney and mike pekovich very knowledgable and informative too.

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, Paring with the grain is fun and efficient. Chopping across the grain on those base lines is painful, ugly, and hurts my elbows.

Sorry Prashun, I should have put a smiley or something with the blasphemy as it was meant as a joke.

I know the pain of aged and/or injured joints in the hands, arms and shoulders.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

Jim, of course u were joking. No need to explain. Who u calling aged??????

[Bill McDermott]

In the midst of my first blue tape half-blinds DT's. Cutting the tape with regular layout tools was easier than striking lines in the wood itself. The total contrast between the tape and the wood is a great help when sawing. While the tape is not sufficient to serve as a reference or a guide, it seems to have some magical power. The saw never nipped the tape but always stayed right on it. That is certainly not how layout lines treat me.

Derek planted the seed. FWW fertilized the idea. The drawers on my current project were the consummation. I'm totally sold.

"Blue Tape Dovetails" sounds rather modern and cheesy. So, looking for some savoir faire, I asked Google to translate to French. I submit; Dovetails ruban bleu.

[Jim Koepke]

I submit; Dovetails ruban bleu.

I wonder if the local trendy bistro will have that on the menu.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

I can't say the results are markedly better than previous attempts, but the process is getting a little easier. Until I get more proficient at fitting 'off the saw', i find it beneficial to work in small stages and break often. It's tedious hunching over a bench (my new bench-on-bench helps with this) and it's tempting to file or chisel off too aggressively in order to force the fit. But anyone can get pretty good results with sufficient patience and delicacy. Breaking often helps maintain that delicacy.

Jim, another blasphemy alert ;) : My favorite pin-fitting tool is a fine rasp. I notice that the more of these I do, the more I can quickly feel where the adjustments need to be made. Beveling the bottoms of the tails also helps me. Smaller pin socket corners are tricky to clean out for me. Unless everything's clean and sharp, the board will not bottom out properly. To that end, I found a new weapon: a fine cut saw (both my dovetail and Dozuki fit the bill). A quick slice along the tails gets at that pesky corner waste if the chisel is hard to work in there.

I saw a tip from Garrett Hack to use a marking knife to get that waste out too. (Derek, did he steal that too ;))

Question: for small wall hung cabinets (think powder room medicine cabinet size) how do you guys do your backs? A slot would sacrifice some depth. I'm partial to a rabbet in the back. I have it in mind to veneer some plywood. Is that something that's doable without a vacuum press?

[Derek Cohen]

Fitting some pins. I can't say the results are markedly better than previous attempts, but the process is getting a little easier. Until I get more proficient at fitting 'off the saw', i find it beneficial to work in small stages and break often. It's tedious hunching over a bench (my new bench-on-bench helps with this) and it's tempting to file or chisel off too aggressively in order to force the fit. But anyone can get pretty good results with sufficient patience and delicacy. Breaking often helps maintain that delicacy.

Jim, another blasphemy alert ;) : My favorite pin-fitting tool is a fine rasp. I notice that the more of these I do, the more I can quickly feel where the adjustments need to be made. ...

Prashun, you are not sawing close enough to the line (edge of the tape) ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape_html_m299ba2fb.jpg

There should be no need to pare anything.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape_html_c83a6a3.jpg




I saw a tip from Garrett Hack to use a marking knife to get that waste out too. (Derek, did he steal that too
;))

I think he got that from Chris Vesper ... or vice versa :)

https://www.vespertools.com.au/images/stories/jkchisel.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

Prashun,

Couple thoughts for you, I agree with Derek, waste with the saw closer to the bottom. Your first cut is perfect, but at that point I would turn the saw around and trim to 1/16"~ of the base line.

You can pare or chop to the line from there, in either case, take small bites (like 1/32~) then fit the chisel in the baseline.

Couple things for when you transfer your marks. When you put the tails on the pin board, if you slightly move the baseline of the tail board over the line then you will mark the pins slightly large, that will help make a nice compression fit right off the saw. Not a whole lot, just a slight bit (like .010")

[Brian Holcombe]

BTW, if you need to press a veneer, just stop by.

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Prashun,

I've veneered a wall case using clamps and cauls. The case was hung on a rabbeted french cleat, though I would consider keyhole plates next time.

330426330427330428

[Jeffrey Martel]

I have it in mind to veneer some plywood. Is that something that's doable without a vacuum press?

Very doable. I have yet to get a vacuum press and have gotten nice results just fine. Use a few pieces of ply and then some curved cauls. Clamp from the center and work your way out. If you use liquid hide glue (Old Brown Glue), then you can heat it up and remove it to try again later with an iron if it gets messed up the first time around. Just did that last week, but with hot hide glue instead. Leave in the clamps for a full day before taking it out, though. Normal yellow glue is too thin and can come through the pores/veneer and mess with the finish. Had that happen before.

I generally try to have about double the number of cauls/clamps that Christopher shows in his photos. May not be practical depending on the size, however.

[keith wootton]

prashun,

it looks like you are using a laminate trim size router? are you using a top mounted bearing to keep in the waste side or eyeballing it? router w/ top bearing idea had not occurred to me til i saw you post.

i use david barons guide and methods with shim get offset for saw kerf, never have to adjust, they fit right off the saw.

i made medicine cabinet recently. cut small rabbet in back and lap sided back with thin boards.

keith

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks, Keith. I'll look into David Barron's guide. Always interested in help. It does get easier with practice, though. More than helping me saw to the line, the tape helps me cut straight. I'm amazed how straight my cuts became. Instantly. I find it straightforward (albeit tedious) to tweak a perfectly straight wall - even with a rasp. It's easy to KEEP a straight wall with a chisel or rasp; it's hard for me to MAKE it straight if the saw cut is not perfectly vertical.

My fourth side actually fit decently off the saw; I just had a tiny bit to file.

Here's the case so far.

[Prashun Patel]

Here's the wood I'm using for the doors. Of COURSE, in my haste to get cutting, I forgot to trim the top and bottoms of the case to match the door width. I left them long by ~1", which means the opening is too wide for these doors to be fully overlaid as originally planned. So, I am now forced to make the doors inset. This is what I love about this hobby: you have to adapt to problems.

I am uncertain where I'm going to cut the doors, but am sure that I'm going to work around the figure, not thru it. The challenge will be to make it feel organic while still being appealing.

Suggestions welcome.

[Christopher Charles]

Beautiful book match. What about mounting/floating the 'panels' within the frame using brass rods--would allow a full sized door and provide negative space all the way around?

[Jerry Olexa]

Very interesting thread...Thanks guys.

[Brian Holcombe]

Those doors are going to look fantastic! Nice work on the case!

[Prashun Patel]

Brian, i would like to have drawers inside the cabinet in the same flush style as your recent cabinet from your Cabinet Build thread.

Can you advise how you made your drawers flush with each other while also using a web frame? Are the drawer fronts rabbeted on the back? How did you lay out the dovetails if the drawer fronts are not false?

keith, i. Am free handing it, but a tiny dado clean out bit could be perfect for this...

david e, i am using a cheap coping saw with olson saw blades cp301. They work pretty well for me. Buy the blades in bulk and use them like sandpaper.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Prashun-

Great thread. Either in this thread, or another, could you snap some pics of how you clean up the baseline with a pin router? That is always the slowest part of the process for me and gives me the most trouble. I'm intrigued by how that is gone about.

Those front panels are going to look awesome!

[Brian Holcombe]

Prashun,

Hah.....very carefully :)

Couple important things, I made lips on the drawers top and bottom so that both drawers, but to ensure that they did not have one large drawer and the rest small, I made it so that the bottom lip incorporated most of the overhang. The top lip had just enough so that the split would land on the web frame, which also meant making the front of the web frames from the same material as the case.

The procedure changes a bit when you are building the drawers, because you really cant adjust the height of the drawer sides very easily after the drawers are complete. So what I did was cut the back to width and height, set it all the way back into the cabinet, then put the drawer sides in (also set for height). I used a light to inspect the back corners to ensure that they were completely contacting the drawer backs (and so to avoid having a twist set into the drawers which will make them tight to close). If they needed adjusting I would do so with with a shooting board.

Cut the joinery at the rear of the drawer and ensure that it operates smoothly, then pull the drawers out of the case enough that you can mark the sides of the drawers. Then cut that joinery.

If all is well at that point it will require very minimal tweaking or none at all.

This is complicated on the first one and requires much thought, on the second one it's straight forward.

And now that I think of it, this is also why I did both sides and the front with drawer slips, it saved me the headache of also adding a groove in the drawer front that would need to line up with the other grooves.

[Prashun Patel]

Jebediah-
Here's a drawing of how I do it. I used a 1/4" upcut spiral bit. I orient the board with the show face toward me (skinny end of the pins). I clamp a backer to the inside face (I clamped 3/4" stock and it was easy enough to keep the router balanced. I suppose I should be worried about tearout, but it hasn't been an issue on either side. The cuts are 10x neater than I could accomplish (yet) with my chisel skills.

I set the bit depth just proud of the thickness of the tail board. When you rout, you have to start from the center, and work in concentric, clockwise circles. If you don't, the bit can run on you. If you work clockwise, and with GOOD LIGHT, you can get right up to the line. The more waste you leave at the bottom off your coping saw, the higher the risk of a runaway router (and dust...). Take the time to cope down to 3/16" or less.

If you do not have confidence sawing the kerfs on the pins, you can even just rout out the entire waste without sawing. In this case, however, you should knife your pins deeply. You can get so close to the line that you don't have to do any paring work besides one, clean pare right on the knife mark. To get a good, accurate pare, I find it important to have a good knife mark. If you have sawed the kerf, this is not an issue.

If you like sawing (as I'm learning to) then you can use a pattern guided bit (called a mortising or dado cleanout bit). These bits have top bearings and a 1/4" cutting length. So, as long as you cope less than 1/4" to the base, you can clean up the bottom in a single, easy pass, using the straight-sawn walls as a reference for the bearing. I just ordered such a bit. The bits tend to come in 1/2" width, though, so this would only be appropriate for wider tails. Also, you'd have provide relief for the radius of the bit in the backer board. If you don't, the bit won't be able to get into the far corners, which defeats the purpose of this method.

Truth be told, the manual and delicate effort of 'carving' free hand with the spiral bit appeals to me. I may just stick with that if the new bit doesn't make the job TOO much easier.

Brian, Thanks for that rich explanation. I'm having trouble visualizing. Will re-read 10x. Do you have any easy to post pictures? I scoured your Cabinet Build thread, but still could not figure it out.

[Brian Holcombe]

I'll see what I can dig up;

That is the inside of the case with the drawer sides being squared up to the backs. I am making certain that both are without twist, and making a final adjustment to them before cutting the joint. The reason for this is that the baseline is usually referenced to the outer edge, so any inconsistencies will transfer. If those join up tight, there is a good chance your finished joint will maintain it.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/C7C6F60D-624A-4A87-BD25-F29624779A5C_zpsiy4lwq90.jpg


One thing I forgot to mention, I do a similar procedure here, placing the drawer faces up to the ends of the drawer sides and check for squareness. If it is not square it will present itself as a teeter-totter. That can be twist is the drawer front or sides that are not connecting squarely with the drawer face.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/6B6C1C36-6D5C-446B-BC1A-B3F54B3596FC_zpsoadriowh.jpg

Sorry but but I don't have a photo of scribing the lines.

[Derek Cohen]

Here is a different take on routing baselines to that of Prashun. Rather than routing out the waste, I have experimented (some years ago) with routing the baseline, also to the depth of the pin (these are half blind dovetails). Once this is done, all one has to do is split out the waste.

The router bit used was 1/8” wide carbide. The small size enabled the groove to get closer to the adjoining boundaries and leave less waste in the corners.
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/TheLastDovetail_html_4305569f.jpg



With the kerfs and the baseline both defined, the waste could be removed in a couple of chisel strokes …
http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/TheLastDovetail_html_427a244.jpg
Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/TheLastDovetail.html

Now I drill a series of holes at the baseline ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape_html_m1478f261.jpg

This leaves a little to pare away, but the bulk of the waste comes out easily. Quick.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfBlindDovetailswithBlueTape_html_m471602d2.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jebediah Eckert]

Thank you Prashun and Derek, I have two new things to try - blue tape and router....I have been trying for a bit to do hand cut dovetails and have been getting them good enough for now. The obvious problem is speed, and getting good results on your practice board does not always equate to good results on your projects when it counts. Between speed, and material waste, I often fallback on a jig when appropriate..........but I don't want to.

[Prashun Patel]

Brian , I see. I hadn't even thought to be too worried about squareness. My cabinet is so narrow and shallow I hadn't pondered this. Thanks.

I am very curious to see the front-side drawer joints. You've incorporated rabbets and an overhang. I'm foggy how to lay out the dovetails as I've never done dovetails where 2 sides of the joint were different widths. Does the rabbet dictate the width of the half pins?

[Brian Holcombe]

Prashun,

Since I used drawer slips I did not need to put the rabbet in the drawer front or sides. If you can do the same, I think it'll work out well, allowing you to make use of thin materials and minimizing the layout issues.

I did not do it for layout reasons, but instead did so because I wanted the rabbet very low to the bottom of the drawer sides.

Here is a photo of the front drawer joint;
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/F0B0153E-B4BD-4EA2-83C7-E5BF17E9AAC4_zpsxva2fnfp.jpg (http://s27.photobucket.com/user/SpeedyGoomba/media/F0B0153E-B4BD-4EA2-83C7-E5BF17E9AAC4_zpsxva2fnfp.jpg.html)

That shows the layout lines.

[Derek Cohen]

Brian raised the issue of drawer slips. I am not sure if we should start a discussion here, or in a new thread, even though this thread appears to be moving to details of drawer making.

Drawer slips are interesting, and a mark of quality drawer making, even more so than hand cut dovetails. I've been using them only for the past 6 years. I cannot say that they save time - quite the contrary - but they make for elegant drawers.

I have a link here to an article on my website I wrote 6 years ago. There are a number of contributions from WoodCentral, where we discussed the details at length. One of the contributors was Richard Jones, who has written the book on drawer slips. Included are his drawings and notes on construction.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/DrawerDesignandDrawerBottoms.html

In a nutshell, there drawer slips are only attached at the drawer sides, and they link to a groove at the drawer back. One does not use a slip at the rear of the drawer. I did do so at that stage - got rapped over the knuckles, and never did so again.

Here is an example from my current build ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/BuildingTheDrawers_html_54592df5.jpg


The completed slips – with tenons. These fit in the groove to match/centre grooves.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/BuildingTheDrawers_html_made5844.jpg

The second design feature is a choice whether one has the slip rising above the drawer bottom, or having the slip and drawer bottom flush with each other.

The raised slip is an easier construction since all one does is groove the slip and drop in the drawer bottom. I have done them like this, but do not like it as it leaves a less clean finish. Here is an example. Not a great photo but the distinct slips are evident ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/Londonhalf-blinddovetaileddrawer_html_7458b422.jpg


A more complicated approach, but one that leaves a clean finish, is to flush the slips and drawer bottom. This approach requires that the drawer bottom is rebated at the top and bottom to form a tongue. Essentially, the slip and drawer bottom form a tongue-and-groove joint. The drawer below is from my current build. The bottom is 3/8" thick solid wood. The slip edge is also beaded to blend the edges of the join ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/BuildingTheDrawers_html_c758cb1.jpg

Link here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/BuildingTheDrawers.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

I like the flush slips/bottom as well, I have that planned for the next set of drawers I make.

[Christopher Charles]

Derek, thanks for the additional explanation for the slips with rabbeted bottoms, definitely fancy pants :) I missed that detail the first time.

C

[Prashun Patel]

I had never heard of drawer slips before. Having read Derek's site (thanks) and other web resources, I have a question for drawer slips on shallow boxes.

My drawers will be 3" tall. The bottoms will be 1/4". I'd like to make flush slips so I don't sacrifice space in the box.

Typical flush slip construction is as in the first picture below. But I would like to maximize space in the drawer; so I want to keep the drawer bottom as low as possible. Further, I'd like to use 1/4" bottoms, so rabbeted tongues feel like they'll be weak.

I got to thinking: flush slips tend to be beaded in order to hide the seam between the drawer bottom and the slip. So, why bother rabbeting the bottom anyway? Why not just let it sit on top of the slip altogether? The bead will conceal imperfections. If I do it the second way, I think I would be able to make a thinner slip and avoid a thin tongue on the bottom panel.

I had considered going a step further by making a flat slip upon which the drawer bottom can completely rest. This would make the panel butt up against the drawer side. But I wouldn't have the benefit of a beaded edge.
What am I missing?

[Brian Holcombe]

I think you'll want to stick with the left side image, if you are using a solid wood panel it will help it to maintain flatness over time. Otherwise if it cups it will show inside the drawer. I would use solid would in this case, ply will be a bit ragged at the rabbetted edge.

[Jim Koepke]

Have you ever removed a drawer from a cabinet? It is natural to place a hand on the underside of the drawer. In the image on the right, ones hand would go through and create a mess.

The bottom of the drawer needs to float free to avoid problems when the wood moves. The wood will move so glue is not an option.

Another option would be to use a non rabbeted piece in the image on the left. then a piece could be placed on top of the slip to create a small secret compartment.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for the advice on the slips. I'll just make them non-flush.

I started cutting the stopped dados in the sides to receive the runners. I'm trying this by hand.

Blue tape to the rescue again! For cutting the dados, I find it easier to use my western dovetail saw to toe in the cut up to the stop. But once the cut is started, my Dozuki is doing a better job of getting easily down to the depth mark. I suppose because it cuts on the pull stroke, it pulls the dust out. To remove the waste, my 1/4" chisel is remarkably efficient; it takes so little effort to get the waste out. To flatten the bottom, I have only a mini-router plane, which doesn't dial in depth very well. I think I may just pin rout out the rest of the waste as with my dovetails.

For sawing to depth I found a neat trick: Tape the saw blade, wrapping the tape over the teeth and onto both sides of the plate. Then use the marking gauge to scribe the depth on the side of the plate; the tape protects the teeth. Then peel away the tape

[Prashun Patel]

Finished the dados. Because this cabinet is so shallow, instead of bothering with all the joints in a web frame, I'll just use solid dividers. This will also keep all the grain in the same direction, so I can glue them into the dados.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice work Prashun!

If if its not too late to do so, I would build through tenons into the center divider. This will work nicely with the grain direction and add a secondary defense against the cabinet pulling away at the sides at some point.

Given the the height of the cabinet I would think it a nice addition and would help to prevent cupping or bowing from affecting the piece down the road. The plain dados on the remaining dividers will be fine otherwise, IMO.

[Prashun Patel]

ia there a different way to accomplish this, Brian? i don't think I like the way through mortises would look.

[Brian Holcombe]

At thing point, since the dados are already cut they're the most practical solution. I suppose you could also do a blind tapered sliding dovetail with a housing but the dado is already fairly deep you might be making the case sides pretty thin at that area.

Since you are this far along and adverse to visible joinery I might simply forgo any changes to the plan and just make a mental notation that in the future if it does move away you could use dowels and screws to bring it back together.

I like tapered sliding dovetails a lot, they're especially practical in these sort of applications because they do not add to the stress of the glue up. So you glue up your dovetailed case, then after that's set you can start adding those dividers in, which allows you to fine tune them in terms of length and fit.

My first sets of large case goods I had made them so that the caseback was integral and side joinery came together all at once, it was incredibly stressful, so after that, even for small projects I decided to start taking steps to make it much easier though admittedly more complicated in the planning stages.

[Pat Barry]

Here's the wood I'm using for the doors. Of COURSE, in my haste to get cutting, I forgot to trim the top and bottoms of the case to match the door width. I left them long by ~1", which means the opening is too wide for these doors to be fully overlaid as originally planned. So, I am now forced to make the doors inset. This is what I love about this hobby: you have to adapt to problems.

I am uncertain where I'm going to cut the doors, but am sure that I'm going to work around the figure, not thru it. The challenge will be to make it feel organic while still being appealing.
Suggestions welcome.
The wood and figure is spectacular. I want to see these doors overlay mounted onto your cabinet virtually as-is. In fact, I'd love to see a cabinet that incorporated these doors as the main attraction. It might be too artsy and not so functional but my mental image is that it would be stunning. I guess what I'm saying is that it would be a shame to lose anything or distract from what you have of that material by just making a plain old inset frame and panel doors.

[Prashun Patel]

Finished the dividers. They're all dado'd. Against Brian's better judgment, I did not make through mortises. I should have dovetailed these into the sides, but hand cutting these dados and tongues was a first for me. Bite off only a *little* more than you can chew, I say!

The dividers are American Beech from my back yard. It has a bad reputation for moving through the seasons, but I have not experienced that. Because of the small size, I just made the dividers full width instead of making a web frame.

This cabinet is going to be a bit of a bumblebee. The proportions are not really appropriate for drawers; they'll be so shallow. I realize that between the drawer fronts and inset doors, I'll be losing even more usable space. So, I'm thinking about something creative if not that practical or conventional.

I used a shooting board to tweak the depth. I recently purchased a Veritas Shooting plane. They should call it a 'cheating' plane because that's what it feels like. It takes effortless, perfect, full length shavings off the end grain. It's cheating because you don't have to cut square or to length. You just sneak up to your perfect fit. Between that the shoulder plane, joints are almost easier than with a machine. This plane has so much mass, it powers through effortlessly, even on what I'd consider thick shavings.

[Pat Barry]

This cabinet is going to be a bit of a bumblebee. The proportions are not really appropriate for drawers; they'll be so shallow. I realize that between the drawer fronts and inset doors, I'll be losing even more usable space. So, I'm thinking about something creative if not that practical or conventional.
What exactly did you have in mind for this cabinet? Was it all drawers? What was going to go into the drawers? It seems the purpose hasn't been all that clear, at least it doesn't come across that way. If it has now become such a bumblebee as you put it, is it time to re-think or re-start? Sometimes the first effort just has to be let go of in spite of the pain it causes to you if the end result doesn't meet expectations. Case in point, my daughter wanted a kitchen island with storage for cooking books and pots and pans and a large granite top and a towel rack and with wheels and etc, etc. Project scope creep turned a simple project into an aircraft carrier. I abandoned the effort because I didn't think it would be practical and that old carcass (hardwood plywood) still sits in my shop 3 years later as a reminder and place to set my clamps.

[Prashun Patel]

This is a decorative piece. If it has a good function, fine. if not, it'll be my own baby.

I think I will use it for 'male baubles', like watches, my phone, some change, cuff links, collar stays. All the little doodads that are floating around my closet in random bowls and yogurt cups.

[Pat Barry]

This is a decorative piece. If it has a good function, fine. if not, it'll be my own baby.

I think I will use it for 'male baubles', like watches, my phone, some change, cuff links, collar stays. All the little doodads that are floating around my closet in random bowls and yogurt cups.
That's cool - nothing wrong with experimenting for the sake of trying and learning. One thing for you to keep in mind that I wish I would have on a cabinet with drawers and inset doors was that the darn hinges I chose forced me to fully open the door (close to a full 180 deg) so that the drawers would actually clear the doors when pulled out (oops). I should have planned my drawers to be less than the full width of the door openings to compensate.

[Brian Holcombe]

Pat brings up a good point, if you pull the drawers in a bit from the sides it will help with that, but this needs to be done with rabbeting and so forth.

Looking good, I think taking small steps is a good way to go as well. Especially due to the small size of the cabinet.

In the future you may find half-dovetailed connectors just as simple to produce....well just slightly more complicated.

The shooting board is great and is one of the ways that make hand tooling a bit quicker than machinery (at this scale of production).

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks, Pat. I have heard of this problem and am already anticipating. I think I may go back to full overlay doors. Now, this will have the unconventional effect of creating a gap at the center. I am thinking of a way to use the drawer pulls to fill that negative space creatively. Full overlay doors will solve the clearance problem.

Also, had I stuck with inset doors, I would have been forced to use recessed pulls on the drawers, since the drawer fronts would be right up against the door backs. This gets around that issue. As it is, the door shape will already not fully conceal the upper and lower drawers.

Anyway, I love thinking about these things; even if it means the design ends up ill-conceived. It's like playing the lottery; just much more exciting.

Aw, who am I kidding. I design on the fly this way because I stink at Sketchup.

[James Pallas]

Nice work Pashun. I have had some good luck setting my small LN router on a couple of drill bits, pushing the blade down on a flat surface and setting the stop then raising the blade up a little if needed.
Jim

[Jebediah Eckert]

All the little doodads that are floating around my closet in random bowls and yogurt cups.

Your like MacGyver with Yogurt cups. You should write a book, 101 uses for yogurt cups :D.........enjoying the thread!

[Prashun Patel]

I am rabbeting the backs of the case pieces. I am deathly afraid of paring too aggressively and breaking the pins near the corners of the rabbeted recess.

Because of this, I haven't chopped a good mark at the stopped end, which is causing blowout when I pare. I would like to rectify this before doing the other 3.

What tricks do you have?

Tools at my disposal: chisels, small router plane, patience.

[Brian Holcombe]

Prashun,

Patience is true. Sharpen your chisel, make absolutely certain that you cannot feel a burr then when you pare that make sure the pin is backed it up with something solid. Take small trimming cuts (like paper thin or less).

[Prashun Patel]

I can see backing the end grain, but how to back the inside of the pin?

[Brian Holcombe]

Talking about paring to a sharp 90 degree corner on that rabbet, I am correct?

I wouldn't expect that you would need to. The key is sharpness, and taking small cuts. What you don't want to do is lean into the cut like you would if you are trying to pare away in a normal cutout.

Use a thin chisel also. I tend to lean heavily into cuts with wide chisels, so in light cuts I will stick to thinner chisels which I am normally more delicate with.

[David Eisenhauer]

To grip the inside of the pin - can you cut a backing block with the dovetail angle on one side and flat (square) on the opposite side? Use that backing block on the angled side of the pin (clamped to the flat side of the backing block) on one side of the pin and clamped across the pin to another backing block that registers up to the outside of the pin (rabbet side). With the delicate pin gripped between backing blocks on both sides, it should allow you to carefully pare away.

[James Pallas]

Prashun I don't use the rabbet but doing similar things I use a good straight block clamped in my face vise raised up as high as the rabbet. Lay the work piece flat on the bench and lightly pare away.
Jim
ps I do the same thing to clean up a tail that is shortened to cover a drawer bottom groove

[Brian Holcombe]

Prashun,

I was contemplating your delema...I think you should trim the rabbet after the case is assembled and use the adjoining rabbet as your guide.

[Prashun Patel]

Too late. I used your advice and just used a narrow, fresh chisel. it worked fine but I fear I may have not accounted for the proudness of my tails. May have overcut the end.

[Brian Holcombe]

Yeah that's quite possible, you'll know when you do the mock assembly. If it's only a slight bit, I'd probably just trim up the rabbet to account for it with a shoulder plane. Don't take a lot, if it's really far off just leave it. I doubt it will be really far off.

[Derek Cohen]

I am rabbeting the backs of the case pieces. I am deathly afraid of paring too aggressively and breaking the pins near the corners of the rabbeted recess.

Because of this, I haven't chopped a good mark at the stopped end, which is causing blowout when I pare. I would like to rectify this before doing the other 3.

What tricks do you have?

Tools at my disposal: chisels, small router plane, patience.

Hi Prashun

I have an article on stopped rebates on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward.html

Below is the essence of what you are possibly looking for ...

A warning about the rebates – they are stopped rebates, which is risky to do and not generally recommended for this type of construction. The rebates terminate short of dovetails that lock the two sides via the top rail. It is easy to weaken and damage them. The only reason I am going down this route is to maintain a clean exterior – I want to finish the back of the chest at the same level as the front. The joint will be strong once the parts are glued up.


This is where the rebate will go …


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_34b3515c.jpg


The plan is to use a rebate plane. Those who have tried this are aware that planing from one end to the other will create a curve, with the depth deepest in the centre of the side, and tapering off to the ends. Eventually the plane will stop cutting ..


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_m39c5ff09.jpg


To plane this successfully, first remove enough waste from each end to enable the rebate plane to continue planing to depth ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_m1f2abe70.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_m1aa9a2c4.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_m4070276e.jpg


Do the same at the other side …

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_fbcabc7.jpg


Now you can plane with confidence as the rebate can be taken to full depth along the whole length.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_m639890da.jpg


Those familiar with the Veritas Skew Rabbet Plane will notice that the front knob has been removed (as well as fitting a deeper sub-fence). The knob seems superfluous to me since I cannot find a reason to use it. There is far more control pushing the plane into the rebate, that is from the side.


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_34fc2827.jpg


What I have discovered is that the place where the knob went makes a handy position for the thumb – better than the fence alongside the edge of the blade … where inevitably I cut myself!


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/MovingForward_html_4625b5dd.jpg


This is the completed rebate. The rear panel will sit in a frame that fits in the rebate. The sizing of this rebate enables the rear sliding dovetails to be sawn inside it and then hidden behind the frame.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pat Barry]

Prashun,

I was contemplating your delema...I think you should trim the rabbet after the case is assembled and use the adjoining rabbet as your guide.
+1 to this. This ensures that the joints are well supported and that the rabbeted corners line up correctly

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for the advice. I'm satisfied with these results. Not Cohen/Holcombe-worthy (yet!) but it worked. I will have a tiny bit of shoulder plane work to re-align the corners once assembled. I think I was wise to do the bulk of the paring while unassembled. It was easy to work from both faces.

Derek, I agree that rabbeting threatens the integrity of the corner pin/tails. How would you normally address this on a case back that won't show?

Also, (full disclosure): I did not cut the rabbets with hand tools; they were routed except for the corners.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice work, those will do!

A rabbet is fine, but personally I would simply make it shallow (like 1/8"). If you set the rabbet in from the case sides on deeper cases you may notice that a 1/8" rabbet has less tendency to crack the outside edge than a deeper rabbet, and really doesn't lose anything in the way of performance.

[Mike Allen1010]

Anyway, I love thinking about these things; even if it means the design ends up ill-conceived. It's like playing the lottery; just much more exciting.

Aw, who am I kidding. I design on the fly this way because I stink at Sketchup.

Prashun, you are in good company my friend - I'm right there with you! I'm theoretical sure Sketch Up would help me avoid problems that stem from lack of planning (If I had half a chance of knowing how to use it- not likely in my life time!), - but whats the fun in that!:)

I'm loving your thread! Great project and even more entertaining write up. Your authentic modesty in describing a build process that is familiar to all of us (certainly to me) is inspirational.

I look forward to the rest!

Best, Mike

[Prashun Patel]

"You're like MacGyver with Yogurt cups."

Jebediah-
I'm more like Gus, the father, from My Big Fat Greek Wedding. Whereas Windex was his duct tape panacea, single-serve yogurt cups were mine...until I discovered Talenti gelato (except, these containers are so nice and perfect, I'm afraid to put anything in them.)

[Mark Almeidus]

Beautiful woodworking Patel.

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

Prashun

I would be proud if I had made a piece like that :)

[Prashun Patel]

I am fitting the knife hinges on the case now, and have a question about fitting them.

My doors have been trimmed to exactly fit the top and bottom openings with no gap.

The hinge pin creates ~1/16" gap between the leaves.

What kind of gap between door/case should I shoot (literally) for?

Should the hinge mortises leave the leaves flush?

Sorry for these basic questions, but oddly, I cannot find that answer anywhere.

True to form, I glued up the case before mortising the hinges (cue Chris Farley SNL interview skit where he smacks himself in the head.)

[Brian Holcombe]

You'll want to make some room around the doors, so generally I aim for the gap between the doors and between the doors and the case to be the same.

That being said I find the gap that Brusso sets to be a little on the generous side on the larger sized hinges. I've taken to using the smallest hinges that they offer for small cabinetry and liked that better. You can set the visible hinge flush and sink the non-visible hinge slightly if you feel it improves the look.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks, Brian. My hinges are 3/8". I think I see what you're saying: if I like the gap of the hinge as is, I trim the doors to have that same gap, and then mount the hinges flush. It now seems obvious.

[Chris Hachet]

Thanks, Keith. I'll look into David Barron's guide. Always interested in help. It does get easier with practice, though. More than helping me saw to the line, the tape helps me cut straight. I'm amazed how straight my cuts became. Instantly. I find it straightforward (albeit tedious) to tweak a perfectly straight wall - even with a rasp. It's easy to KEEP a straight wall with a chisel or rasp; it's hard for me to MAKE it straight if the saw cut is not perfectly vertical.

My fourth side actually fit decently off the saw; I just had a tiny bit to file.

Here's the case so far.


I find using a leg vise and turning the wood to vertical helps me saw accurately.

[Phil Mueller]

Prashun, haven't seen an update on this build since end of January. What gives? I'm interested in seeing how the book matched doors turned out. Hate to be a nag, but any updates? :)

[Prashun Patel]

Phil, somethin has not felt right about this to me. The design is just off. My cabinet just isn't the right dimensions for drawers. This means my doors aren't appropriate. I am therefore going to save those doors for something else and make this one into a completely closed cabinet without drawers. So I am now trying to pick wood for the doors on this one.

[Brian Holcombe]

Prashun,

If you haven't cut for hinges, how do you feel about turning those into a panel and building a frame for it. If the frame is relatively thin it may work well with the style of the cabinet.

[Prashun Patel]

Brian, I have not cut for hinges. I am unclear about what you mean.

[Brian Holcombe]

I just re-read my post, hah, it seems I forgot to include all of the critical parts.

What I meant to say was that a single door, rather than double doors, may suit your purpose well. If you took the current material and made it into a panel, then built a thin doorframe for it.

[Phil Mueller]

Thanks for the update Prashun! I know my projects always look great in my head and then occasionally in the execution, something doesn't quite work. In my case, it's probably a factor a very rough drawings and too much design on the fly. But I do like the ongoing creativity it presents.
Hope to see those doors on something down the road!

[Prashun Patel]

I'm experimenting with veneering doors. This is my first time, and it's harder than it looks!!!

I edgebanded a couple sheets of 1/2 mdf-core plywood. I resawed the veneers a little thick (3/16"), and am slip matching two door fronts. This allowed me to glue the jointed side to the substrate and leave the final smoothing until after glue up.

The trickiest part of this whole process is clamping the glue ups. I'm using cauls and Titebond. I thought I knew how to glue up. Veneering is testing me on a whole different level. Every little edge needs adequate pressure. The placement of the cauls - even on a narrow glue up (these are only 7" wide) is tricky.

Preventing slippage was also tricky. I cut my veneers a little wide to account for this, but by the 4th side, I finally figured out that because I cut the edge banding a tad wide of the door opening, I could pre-cut the veneer to be flush with the edges of the enlarged panel. That allowed me to use painters tape to snug everything.

Snugging the clamps criss-cross like a mechanic tightens lug nuts on a tire also helped.

[Jeffrey Martel]

Looks very good. One thing that's really helped me is switching to hide glue. Either liquid or hot. Should you mess up a glue up, you can just heat it up and try again. Plus, with hot hide glue, in this case you could hammer veneer rather than using cauls and clamps.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice work!

[Prashun Patel]

I took my doors out of the cauls and they did pretty well (for the most part). I won't show you the gap around 2 corners :(
Like I said, getting the platten and cauls all the way to the edges has proven to be super critical. Lesson learned.

I planed the edges flat and shot the ends square. I have learned a lot from David Charlesworth's dvd's. Perhaps most critically, I am learning to plane with deliberate, slow strokes - not fast ones. It's so obvious, but the slow push provides so much feedback, allows better balance, and forces me to lift on the return, instead of rubbing on the return. I work neater too. Every 2, 3 strokes, I can clear the shavings, examine my results. I have cut the actual strokes down in half. Planing this way has been so much less fatiguing, too.

Planing left me with some tear out. I have so fallen in love with my cabinet scraper. There's a world of difference between a cabinet scraper and a card scraper. The cabinet scraper is sharpened at 45 degrees. I previously did it free hand. But recently, I've done it in a jig and honed it all the way up to 8000, treating it just as I would a plane blade. Next - and here's the obvious kicker - I WAXED the sole. I can't tell you how effortlessly this piece of walnut scraped. All chatter that I previously experienced was eliminated. I was getting full length, thin shavings that rival what I can get from my smoothing plane.

Because the blade is held under tension, it creates a camber, so I know it's not producing a truly flat surface. However, it's quite a bit flatter than any attempts I've had with card scrapers. Trying to use it on a less-than-perfectly flat surface can be frustrating. When sharpened properly, though, it requires little tension and little effort to push, so it doesn't remove a lot of material - (in my experience) not enough to bring the surface out of flat.

Anyway, I don't hear enough about this tool, so I thought I'd wax poetic for the unsung hero.

[Phil Mueller]

Nice work. Ok, I'm taking the bait!...tell me more about the scraper. Looks to be a vintage Stanley? What #? Looks like the iron is fairly short like a spokeshave. I've seen some with a longer iron. Is it the original iron?
Thanks for posting. You've given me something to think about for my next must have tool!

[Prashun Patel]

It is a wilton 79 that i got cheap. I replaced the blade with a lee valley replacement for stanley 80s. It fit. Its the kind of tool that if you are very skilled with your planes it would be extraneous. But its a cheap investment so why not have a little something extraneous? Also i am not that skilled with my planes :(

the iron is about double the height of a spokeshave. You can sharpen both ends so its flippable.

[Phil Mueller]

Very cool, thank you! I'm in the same place (probably less) as you are with planes. Extraneous here we come.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice work, coming along well. Here is another trick, go back and burnish the surface with shavings, if there is any tearout it will pop out at you.

[Prashun Patel]

I decided to use barrel hinges on this cabinet. I prefer the knife hinges, but at almost $50/cabinet, I just had to draw the line.

I shot the door tops and bottoms to the opening, and jointed the long edges to fit. I am less and less a fan of my bevel up planes (Hope they're not reading this...) with the exception of the LA Jointer. That thing is just amazing in my hands. I used the edge guide to dial in a slight back bevel to the doors. The thing nobody mentions about the edge guide is that it creates a good bearing surface for lateral pressure. By distributing my forward hand pressure this way, I find it much easier to maintain balance so the front edge does not taper down. The full width shavings are repeatable and reliable and uniform.

I know this is a crutch, but for the less skilled as I, I think the guide is a great thing (except for the angle skew knob that is forever falling out and getting lost :(

I am also a recent acquirer of the LV Shooting plane. It has really shined here. I am used to shooting with a certain amount of force. This plane, however, allows very slow, controlled shooting. I learned from David Charlesworth to use shims on my shooting fence to cheat the edge in or out of square. When banging away with the shooting plane, it's easy to compress paper shims, of move them. With this plane, though, you can shoot slowly and see what you're doing THROUGH the cut.

I still have some final fitting to do.

I love most about hand tool working is sneaking up on a fit. So gratifying.

[Scott T Smith]

Here's the wood I'm using for the doors. Of COURSE, in my haste to get cutting, I forgot to trim the top and bottoms of the case to match the door width. I left them long by ~1", which means the opening is too wide for these doors to be fully overlaid as originally planned. So, I am now forced to make the doors inset. This is what I love about this hobby: you have to adapt to problems.

I am uncertain where I'm going to cut the doors, but am sure that I'm going to work around the figure, not thru it. The challenge will be to make it feel organic while still being appealing.

Suggestions welcome.

Prashun, that is some spectacularly figured lumber!

This doesn't happen to me very often, but based upon the figure I'm having a devil of a time figuring out how the log was aligned when it was milled. What is throwing me is the straight grain that is adjacent to one side of the feathered crotch wood; I've never seen that variance in grain pattern on each side of a crotch feather.

Can you shed any light on the history of this particular pair of bookmatched boards?

Thanks.

Scott

[Prashun Patel]

Scott, the only thing I can say is this was the cut off from the end of a flat sawn slab. I cannot remember the orientation, unfortunately. Double unfortunately, those doors aren't part of this project any more! I am using this one as a practice for the next...

[Prashun Patel]

I made the pulls today. I wanted to try some tab pulls. Excavating the pin in the long grain is so much more enjoyable than in the end grain. I used a mini router plane once the chisel was in shooting distance of my depth line. The mini router plane was also perfect for making a precise rabbet on the dovetailed tab.

I found the trick to adjusting the depth of the LV mini router plane: a mallet! A little tap with the blade bottomed out and the nut tightened will move it down just enough for another pass. It worked great.


Not sure how I feel about this design choice, but tab pulls on opposing doors create no space for your fingers. Staggering them allows better grasp.

I bandsawed the blanks for these, and something about the rough hewn look just looked good to me compared to the simplicity of this case.

[Prashun Patel]

I think I'll stick a fork in this one. Let's call it a spice cabinet.

I enjoyed working with barrel hinges. They are an economical and easy way to have hidden hinges.

I need to do some minor work to get the doors to close completely. I'll probably install a magnetic catch at the top.

Finished with oil and varnish, and then wax.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice! It came out very well. I like the offset cutouts.

[Joe A Faulkner]

Very well done Prashun. Your doors turned out very nice. Your work frequently inspires me. I am going to have to try some veneer work soon! What did you do for the back of the cabinet?

[John Kananis]

Very nice work; a 'Breaking Bad' fan to boot.

What are the dimensions of those front panels and how was that lumber dried (if you don't mind me asking)?

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks guys. The doors are 6.5" x 25". The slabs for the side panels is from a slab that i believe was mostly air dried. The tops and door veneers are from some dimensional lumber that i am sure was kiln dried.

joe, thats high praise. Thanks for the kind words. The back is 1/4" plywood that is screwed into the backs of the dividers.

brian, thes are pulls not cutouts. I appreciate your advice on making the shelves dovetails instead of dados. I wish i had dont that.

[Brian Holcombe]

Oh cool, optical illusion (for me at least, lol) in the picture. Anytime! If you have the planes for it, they're super easy.

[Prashun Patel]

Scott, I found another slab that has similar crotch figure to the one with my original doors. Does this shed light on the orientation?

[Mike Allen1010]

Prashun,


Very nice job with the cabinet - I really like the beautiful figure in the wood you chose and the creative pulls you made. Definitely a family heirloom that I'm sure you'll enjoy every day as you're using it to organize the accoutrements of day-to-day living.


I really enjoyed your thread – thanks a lot for posting! I always appreciate your sense of humor, which makes your posts so much fun to read – except when I spit coffee on the keyboard!


In particular I really like your photos and comments about the tools you use for various parts of the build. It's really instructive for me to hear a fellow hand tool woodworker describe how tools I don't know much about, worked for them in their build.


I also admire the creative solutions you came up with to respond to "unanticipated outcomes" in the build. I personally have lots of these (which in my case tend towards the "Opps, I screwed up again" end of the spectrum). Following the dialogue between you, Brian and the other Creekers who responded to your thread really encouraged me to consider more creative options in my own builds.


I look forward to seeing more of your work.


All the best,

[Prashun Patel]

Mike thanks for the generous comments.
There is good inspiration on this forum. I am trying and learning and recognize I have a ways to go on many levels. Having fun the whole way though.

I think Brian and Derek are very generous with their pictures and techniques. Honestly, this place has been like going to school because of folks like them.

[Christopher Charles]

Hello Prashun,

I must have missed the completion of your cabinet while traveling. The grain match and offset handles are top-notch. I also think the barrel hinges suit the piece as well. Thanks for posting and I hope it brings a smile to your face every time you open it.

Best,
Chris