Worn screw boss in Stanley 9 1/2 block plane?

[Lenore Epstein]

Hi all. This is my first thread, so please forgive my long and rambling tale of woe. I'd just like to hear thoughts on whether I should try to make this plane work, buy another used but sound one from a more reputable source, or drop the $$$$ on what I really want, a Veritas plane that'll work right out of the box, which would let me focus my plane rehab efforts on the more trouble-free #3 plane I'm tuning up.

Anyhow, ignoring all the advice to buy old planes from the better tool websites, I bought a 9 1/2 Stanley block plane on eBay for about $25. I've sharpened the iron and honed the cap, but have yet to flatten the sole, which is concave both in front of and behind the mouth.

Before I got around to that, I realized that the lateral adjustment lever, which flopped around on the screw and hardly moved the iron at all, was the wrong one, so after poking around I picked up the right one for $9. The disc on the new lever fits perfectly in the iron's slot, but because this one also flops around, it doesn't move the iron well.

Finally I found this on Patrick Leach's Blood and Gore: "The lateral adjustment lever pivots on the lever cap screw, onto which the lever cap engages. In fact, the lever screws onto the lever cap screw, which is itself screwed into a boss in the main casting."

Sure enough, the adjustment lever's screw hole is threaded, but the plane's cap screw is too small to engage its threads, which means the screw doesn't hold the lever at the right angle to keep the disc in the iron's slot. Besides, the screw is very loose in the boss. I stopped by Ace Hardware's Aisle of Fasteners to find one that would fit, but even the smart guy who worked there couldn't find a screw, either metric or standard, that would work; we did find a size which engaged perfectly with the threads on the adjustment lever, but it turns out that the lever's threads are coarser than the ones in the boss, so the right screw for the lever doesn't fit into the boss. And the boss's threads are extremely shiny, looking like they'd just been cut. (Hopefully the pictures below help you see what I mean.) That makes me think that someone recently tapped the inside of the boss to match some other screw--which we don't have. And that means that buying a new screw (or matching screw and lever cap) won't solve the problem.

I don't even know if it's possible to re-tap the boss's threads in the right size, but my guess is that the new threads were to replace original threads that had been stripped, and that there's not enough metal to restore the original thread size.

Thoughts? Admonishments? Guffaws?


330289330290

[steven c newman]

Just recently won a new lever with the bolt needed for a 9-1/2 type2 plane I am working on.....fellow does have a couple left.....$6 or so....on Ebay others also are selling the levers with bolts.

Also, check with nhplaneparts on ebay, Eric might just have a bolt you need....

[Lenore Epstein]

The problem isn't finding a bolt that fits the lever, it's finding one that fits the fine threads in the boss. Which wouldn't fit the lever. :(

But maybe I just answered my own question.

[Jim Koepke]

Welcome to the world of Stanley and their use of non-standard threads.

You are likely correct about someone tapping new threads on the lateral lever. One solution would be to also tap the boss on the base to this size and get a bolt that will work.

If you have experience with tapping new threads you might be able to accomplish finding a screw that matches the profile of the head on the old screw. The underside mates with the lever cap, knuckle cap or what ever tops it off and holds the blade in place.

I have had some success with coating the inside of the threads in the boss with something like JB Weld:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?132457-Advanced-Fettling-404&p=1339970#post1339970

There are a few products for this purpose. Then tapping the hole with the original thread size. You would do the same to one of your lateral levers and hope for the best.

Be sure to let the JB Weld fully cure.

The problem with doing this is finding a tap with the correct threads. Most likely you will need two taps. One regular for getting the threads started and another as a bottoming tap to get deep enough. When I purchased a tap for a different Stanley odd size, three were ordered so at least one could be ground down a bit to make a bottoming tap.

I am not sure if my #65 planes use the same size bolt. I do not recall at the moment what their tread size an pitch happen to be.

jtk

[Lenore Epstein]

Thanks, for the information, Jim. Tapping threads would be a useful skill, but right now I'd rather get closer to having a functional block plane than invest even more time trying to make this one right..*

So I'm going abandon this project. I wouldn't feel right selling it as a user, but I can get my $25*back by parting out the components, so it's not *big deal.

Now I get to decide whether to get a shiny new plane that works pretty much straight out of the box or spend the reasonable amount of time making*an old but usable *plane into a nice tool. I'm *already having fun picking up skills while fixing up a No. 3 smoother,, so I'm not losing anything either way will be more funI


Please forgive all the typos; for some reason I'm having input grief today!

[steven c newman]

Note to OP: Deycart Tools has a store on the auction site. Not only is there the lateral levrs for sale, he also sells seperate bolts. Check through his catalog, and you might just find the bolt you need.

Yes, NEW bolt. One that will fit your plane.

Just recieved a eccentric lever for mine..
330330
Plane is a Stanley 9-1/2 Knuckle cap. But, now I can adjust the mouth on this plane.
Part came from that seller....might look through what he has...

[Tom M King]

I retapped the threads in a 60-1/2 for the iron adjuster. I forget exactly what size, but the new replacement knob had metric threads, and it was whatever metric threads they were. I ended up giving that plane to someone once I got it working.

There should be plenty of metal left to retap to the next size up, but you might have to modify a bottoming tap. A helicoil might work if you can find the right size.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks, for the information, Jim. Tapping threads would be a useful skill, but right now I'd rather get closer to having a functional block plane than invest even more time trying to make this one right..*

So I'm going abandon this project. I wouldn't feel right selling it as a user, but I can get my $25*back by parting out the components, so it's not *big deal.

Now I get to decide whether to get a shiny new plane that works pretty much straight out of the box or spend the reasonable amount of time making*an old but usable *plane into a nice tool. I'm *already having fun picking up skills while fixing up a No. 3 smoother,, so I'm not losing anything either way will be more funI


Please forgive all the typos; for some reason I'm having input grief today!

If you get into doing plane rehabilitation you will hopefully never need the skill to tap threads, but it is a useful skill to clean dirty or rusted threads.

If you are in the Pacific Northwest, it would be my pleasure to have you drop by to see how easy thread tapping can be. This is an offer I also extend to other members.

As much of a joy it is to use my "shiny new" planes, nothing compares to the joy felt while using some of my old rust bucket planes that have been brought back from the brink.

Have you found the almost hidden trove of treasure here on SMC?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

There are a few different threads archived there on bringing old planes back to life.

jtk

[Ray Selinger]

I feel your pain . My first rehab was a 1949 Stanley #4, by the time I got it right, I was thinking Veritas planes were quite inexpensive. By all means finish it, while certainly not cost effective, that plane will be Yours. When you use it, you'll get a "I made this". Considering Stanley quality, and their green castings, it might have a ring of truth to it. Get Veritas PMVII for it, and you'll have a heirloom.

[Lenore Epstein]

I feel your pain . My first rehab was a 1949 Stanley #4, by the time I got it right, I was thinking Veritas planes were quite inexpensive. By all means finish it, while certainly not cost effective, that plane will be Yours. When you use it, you'll get a "I made this". Considering Stanley quality, and their green castings, it might have a ring of truth to it. Get Veritas PMVII for it, and you'll have a heirloom.
That's a good and very sensible idea, Ray.

I really do want to finish rehabbing the old Stanley #3, so I could buy a new or good used low angle block plane that would need little if any work to tune up, finish the #3, and hold onto the 9 1/2 in case having a few working planes helps me get over my resentment. After all, it sounds like it's not a bad thing to have both a standard and LA block plane.

Thanks!

[Ray Selinger]

Good thinking, I now have three LA block planes, a Veritas which was a retirement gift to myself, a English Stanley #60 1/2 I bought as a apprentice, and a Stanley war time rehab #60 1/2. With my smallish hands the narrower 1 3/8" bladed Stanleys are handier than the 1 5/8" Veritas or the # 9 1/2s. I like the side dimples on the English Stanley over the flat sided war time Stanley. But the blade support on the older Stanley is much better. There might be a place for a '30s Stanley #60 1/2. The Veritas can be converted to a # 3 LA. Besides, once you have two they multiply .

[steven c newman]

Well, the lateral lever for my 9-1/2 arrived yesterday. Used the bolt that came with it, so NOW I have a "spare" bolt for anyone that would need such a thing. Currently sitting in my spares box.

BTW: New bolt fit just fine. OLD iron was reslotted at one time, as it is way too short. New slot doesn't reach, so I used another iron for that. Now looking for the piece that has the teeth on it to raise or lower the depth of cut. Brass wheel and the threaded stud are fine, it is that piece of flat steel with a couple teeth cut into it, that needs to replace the worn out one I have now.

Hoping to get both block planes up and running.....will have to look for a "parts" block plane, I guess....

[Tom M King]

I may have one. I'll check tomorrow. I have two good pair, and a number of parts planes. The Stanley's are plenty good enough for me. I have a NOS pair of the really dark blue ones, and a pair of the Burgundy ones I bought new in the '70s, as well as other accumulations that people gave me of various partial block planes.

[Tom M King]

I don't have many 9-1/2 parts. I remembered incorrectly having that piece, but the piece I was thinking about was from a 60-1/2.

[steven c newman]

Might just go and buy one from nhplaneparts.....thanks, anyway.

[Lenore Epstein]

Update:

So it occurred to me that might not even need the lateral adjustment lever, and sure enough, it works exactly the same with or without the lever. The concavity around the mouth prevents it from taking pretty shavings, but it does take some, and it takes just a gentle tap or two with the tack hammer in the bottom of my toolbox to adjust the iron to get even shavings across the width of the mouth.

Also, I doubt that the relatively mild pull on the tightened cap iron will strip the loosely engaged threads, and if they do, I'll either re-tap the boss or replace the whole thing, so after flattening the sole and filing the ramp a little I'll put it to use.

I still might end up with a new Veritas or Lie Nielsen now that I've seriously considered them, if only because buying a new block plane is a cheap way to experience a new and higher-tech tool, and I'd still like a low-angle plane like a 60 1/2 so I can see the difference between the two for myself. But assuming I enjoy using the #3 and #9 1/2 planes after their tuned up, I see a lot more old planes in my future.

I've learned so much from this forum, both in other threads and this one, so thanks, everyone, for all of your great info and advice!


Lenore