Picking vintage saws

[Nicholas Lawrence]

A recent post by another member got me thinking about how to look at an older saw and know whether it is a good one or not. Old Disstons are awesome, but unfortunately the company lingered on into the period where they made some stuff that was not so great, so the name alone does not necessarily indicate you are getting quality.

Obviously you can buy a new saw, or buy from one of the folks who do a nice job fixing them up. That can be pretty expensive though, and it can be a lot of fun looking for "old gold" and then learning to clean it up and sharpen it. If you are looking on ebay it can be particularly hard to tell if what you are looking at (often with a minimal description) is a bargain or a dud.

I thought I would post a few photos of saws I have, and some of the features that in my experience indicate you may be looking at something pretty decent. Here are my thoughts, based on some hits and a few misses over the years. Some of the details you may not be able to see on an ebay listing, but I hear folks often find saws at garage sales and flea markets (not me, the only saws I ever see at garage sales are pruning saws).

In addition to some of the features I mention below, you obviously want to look for damage, extreme rust, broken handles, missing nuts, kinked or bent blade, ridiculously bad tooth line, etc. I am not an expert, your mileage may vary, others may have different opinions (some of them may even be right!), etc. etc.

Here is my favorite rip saw. It is a warranted superior which are sometimes very nice saws. It was an ebay "hit." It was originally a cross-cut saw, and I refiled it to a rip profile. It has about 5 or so TPI. Indicators of quality on this one include the skew back and a reasonably decent handle. I don't see how the skew makes a difference in performance, but I have noticed the lower quality saws (later Disstons for example) are just straight, blocky things that look like they were made as cheaply as possible, and the handles are similarly blocky, looking like they were simply cut out with a jigsaw. This handle is certainly not some sort of premium product, but the edges are eased, and it looks like you could comfortably hold it for an extended period of time.

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In addition, it has a nice etch. I could not see an etch in the ebay listing for this one, but if it isn't too crudded up you can sometimes make them out if you are buying in person. I don't know who the Willard Saw Company is, but the fact that they wanted their name on the saw indicates to me that they did not think it was complete junk.

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This is another warranted superior. The indicator it may be decent quality here is the little cut-out at the toe. Makes no difference in cutting, but again, it is a little something extra the manufacturer did that seems to go away as the quality began to decline. It also has a nice handle, with all of the sharp edges eased, and another nice etch, this time from the "Simmons" hardware company in Boston. This one was in pretty rough shape, and the etch was not visible at all until I cleaned it up. It turned out to be a really nice, taper-ground saw.

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I have a couple of "name brand" saws for comparison, but I guess you can only do a certain number of pictures in a post, so I am going to post the "no-name" ones here and will do the others as a reply.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Nicholas,

One of the problems with yard sales, estate sales and flea markets is the serious buyers get out of bed early.

The way to find such things is to make sure people know you are looking for them. Especially when dealing with antique stores. They often know other dealers who may have some. My bet is as soon as you walk out the door, they call whoever they mentioned to tell them someone might be coming by to look at saws. Sure these folks are in competition, but they also look out for and work with each other.

I am always on the look out for "junk stores" and such. Found one in Astoria, Oregon if my memory is working that had a barrel full and a good bit of the floor covered with hand saws. I found a few that I liked. As I recall I left with three saws and a few other things for less than $20.

The way to find rusty gold is to never stop looking, then look some more.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Here is an Atkins saw I bought from Tom Law's estate. It has a very nicely finished handle, and really cuts very nicely. Atkins is not as well known as Disston, but this one at any rate is a very nice saw. Note the detail in the handle, and again it has the skewed back. Nobody is going to put that much effort into the handle, and then attach it to a piece of junk saw plate.

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Here is a Disston rip saw. Disston of course is "the" name when it comes to American saws. They did linger on to a point where the name was put on products that were not so good though, so you want to look more at the saw and not just at the name. A lot of the "new old stock" Disstons in particular that I have seen look like they are the more recent/lower quality variety. The thumbhole on this one is not that common of a feature, so if you see that in a listing that otherwise has little information, you may be onto a bargain. This one is a great saw, for whatever reason I just prefer the little warranted superior in the prior post. Probably because that was the first one I ever sharpened, and I was amazed at how well it cut.

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Here is a Disston D-8. I bought it planning to clean it up and put it to work, and have not done so because I was lucky enough to buy the Atkins. This one will still get cleaned up one day, it has just slid down the priority list.

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For the Disston saws, the Disstonian Institute is a great resource, but I am not aware of a similar resource for other manufacturers. As with so many things, bargains are becoming scarcer with old saws, but hopefully some of these photos will help somebody looking for a good saw separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

The trouble around here is a lot of the estate sales for some reason start on a Friday. All the retired folks ransack the place while honest people are out working for a living!

I am not complaining. I have the Patina sale within driving distance every year, and that makes up for a heck of a lot.

[steven c newman]

I know of one place near here, they turned an old Lumber Yard into an Antique Store......if I walked through the "show room" and then over to the old lumber barn,.....somedays there would be a large pile of old saws, amongst other treasures. If they didn't make they way to the show room, price was a OBO sort of thing. Rescued quite a few, as a fellow would come in now and then to buy saws to PAINT ...GRRRRRR!

So, right now, there is a No.7 a couple D8s an Atkins Ship saw, and a few others.....
Yard sales around here? Saws go very cheap. Even picked a minty D23...for free. 6ppi, no less.

[steven c newman]

Saw Till is a bit on the "basic' side..
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Since I do not go the ebay route with saws.....

[Chris Hachet]

Saw Till is a bit on the "basic' side..
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Since I do not go the ebay route with saws.....

The two I picked up with you Saturday are going to be good workers for me.

[Chris Hachet]

Here is an Atkins saw I bought from Tom Law's estate. It has a very nicely finished handle, and really cuts very nicely. Atkins is not as well known as Disston, but this one at any rate is a very nice saw. Note the detail in the handle, and again it has the skewed back. Nobody is going to put that much effort into the handle, and then attach it to a piece of junk saw plate.

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Here is a Disston rip saw. Disston of course is "the" name when it comes to American saws. They did linger on to a point where the name was put on products that were not so good though, so you want to look more at the saw and not just at the name. A lot of the "new old stock" Disstons in particular that I have seen look like they are the more recent/lower quality variety. The thumbhole on this one is not that common of a feature, so if you see that in a listing that otherwise has little information, you may be onto a bargain. This one is a great saw, for whatever reason I just prefer the little warranted superior in the prior post. Probably because that was the first one I ever sharpened, and I was amazed at how well it cut.

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Here is a Disston D-8. I bought it planning to clean it up and put it to work, and have not done so because I was lucky enough to buy the Atkins. This one will still get cleaned up one day, it has just slid down the priority list.

330285

For the Disston saws, the Disstonian Institute is a great resource, but I am not aware of a similar resource for other manufacturers. As with so many things, bargains are becoming scarcer with old saws, but hopefully some of these photos will help somebody looking for a good saw separate the wheat from the chaff.


Neat saw, I love vintage saws. It is becoming a bit of an addiction.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I have mine hanging as well. A couple of 20 penny nails holds them well. I thought about a proper till, but I simply do not have room for it.

[lowell holmes]

I have a 96 year old D20 that was my wife's Grandfathers. It is a great saw, but it will never be used because I have so many.
I will use a D7 that I have. I have a D12 that needs cleaning and sharpening. I probably will do that, but it may never be used.
When I pass, one of my 3 son's will probably get them, but I doubt they will be appreciated. :confused:

[Jim Davis]

A couple of things. Those unknown sawmakers, such as Wiilard (way upthread) are usually just trade names for a hardware company. Disston would etch anything a retailer wanted on their saws. I have a nice little "Keene Bros. Hardware" saw that is obviously a Disston D 23 in sheep's clothing.

As for the "the little cut-out at the toe," All Disstons had that for several decades, but it tells more about the period of manufacture than the quality. Disston considered saws such the 12, D-8, 120 to be on the high end of quality, but the run-of-the-mill No. 7 also had that "the little cut-out at the toe," which is supposed to also be graced with the infamous "nib," if it hasn't been broken off.

In my experience, the quality of a saw is in the eyes and hands of the user. Some people wanted a saw that was hard enough to not need sharpening very often. Others, like me are happy to sharpen a saw and find it pleasant to set up a saw that doesn't eat files for breakfast. :)

Even the last saws to bear the Disston name (including the "Rancher," "Townsman," and their kin) can be made to cut well, though they are soft and never feel as good in hand unless the handles are customized.

It's really hard to go very far wrong buying a used handsaw unless it is hopelessly bent or pitted. This is the Keene Bros. saw.

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[Nicholas Lawrence]

That is a good looking saw Jim. What is it, about 20"?

[Glen Canaday]

You all are going to hate me.

Minnesota is the font from which all antique saws spout. Garage sales, estate sales, and rarely but occasionally antique stores. I have never had to purchase a saw from an antique store.

And I have never paid more than $5 for any saw...and that was for a Langdon 73A mitre box with original Atkins saw. The rest were $2 and under.

But the last type I can't find is a good dovetail saw. Lots of lumbermen out here, no cabinetmakers.

Generally, I buy any saw that is not another Disston Porter backsaw that is $5 or under. If they are too far gone to rehab, they can go on a wall.

[Jim Davis]

That is a good looking saw Jim. What is it, about 20"?

It's actually 14", if I remember correctly. It had some dings in the toe of the blade, a fine coating 330367of rust and the handle finish was cracked and chalky. I had to pay $2 for it.

[Jim Koepke]

You all are going to hate me.

Yep, you got that right. :eek: :D

Funny how some antique shops will look at an old saw with split brass nuts and think it isn't worth as much as a newer one that is all shiny with steel nuts.

I paid about $5 at an antique shop for a saw that has split nuts. Sadly a few of them were missing. Though the saw plate is nice.

I have bought a dovetail saw at an antique shop. The plate was too brittle to sharpen and set. If you want a good dovetail saw, save up and buy a kit from someone like Ron Bontz.

jtk

[Glen Canaday]

There are a few makers I could choose a saw from. I'm fairly positive I'd be ecstatic about any single one of them!

I would love to run into a decent handled dovetail saw. It doesn't have to be some rare Disston, or a Bishop, or really anything else with a name that comes to mind without looking it up. Just something of quality, with a good handle that isn't one of those #68 gent's saw deals. I hate them things...and I already have one. I'd rather cut tails with a thumbhole D8 for how much control I have over them.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I looked for a dovetail saw for a long time, and then just bought one from Lee Valley. They charged me more than $2, but now at least I have one.

[Mike Holbrook]

Got to love a good Atkins. They are a little more expensive on the auction sites these days. I kinda had a thing for them a few years back when they could be bought a little more reasonably:

Caution saw porn>>

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Top is 26", 9 ppi, next down is 22", 8 ppi, 22", 11 ppi, little guy on the bottom is 18", 12 ppi. The 22", 8 ppi has a little bend in it. I have ben thinking about sending it off to see if someone better at saw restoration could straighten it. It cuts nice as do the others. I like the feel of the Atkins saws, not exactly sure why.

[lowell holmes]

Yep, you got that right. :eek: :D


If you want a good dovetail saw, save up and buy a kit from someone like Ron Bontz.

jtk

I bought a kit from Ron. He is a class act. His merchandise is absolutely top quality. He is helpful when you have questions.

[steven c newman]

My main two DT saws ( or were, sold one over the pasy weekend)
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Newer No.4 in front of the No.5 I just sold. The No.4 is 9ppi, filed rip. My go to dovetail saw..

Had a Crown Gents saw for a while.....hands hated the handle....or rather Uncle Arthur (itis) hated it. Got rid of both gents saws I had.

[Jim Koepke]

Just something of quality, with a good handle that isn't one of those #68 gent's saw deals. I hate them things...and I already have one.

Have you ever thought of cutting the handle tang off of the gent's saw?

Take the handle off first and save it for a file or something.

Then you could make a handle for your hand and have a dovetail saw.

One of my gent's saws has a thin blade and I have thought of this at times.

jtk

[Mike Siemsen]

When I look at saws I look at the handle first. The handle is the hardest part to make and the easiest to cheapen up. Once the handle becomes an unusable blob they cheapen up the steel.
Then it is check for bent plates, rust pits and broken teeth.
Glen, are you coming to the MWTCA meet in Medina on the 13th? I could probably part with a dovetail saw if there isn't one there.

[lowell holmes]

The question of budget priced dovetail saws comes up occasionally.
I attended a weekend seminar in Houston conducted by Jeff Headley and Steve Hamilton a few years ago.
They were making some cuts with a gent's saw. They had left their saw at home, so the seminar being at Woodcraft,
they bought one. Steve Hamilton mentioned that the saw they bought there was one of his favorite saws.
I immediately bought one during a break.

If your interested, it is an 8" Garlick Lynx gents saw. After filing the crosscut teeth to rip pattern, my saw is an excellent
saw and is a good one for cutting dovetails. I knew to file the teeth, so I did. The saw is several years old, still sharp, and I use it frequently.
I have three Lie Nielsen saws, so it's a matter of preference for the cut I'm making at the moment.

If you use the saw in it's crosscut configuration you will probably be disappointed.

Frank Klausz covers this in his CD. The name of the CD is HAND TOOLS, TUNING AND USING CHISELS, PLANES AND SAWS.

[steven c newman]

When I pick up a saw..
Handle in one piece?
Does the blade flop around? Like the isn't an temper left?
Blade even straight?
Has all of it's teeth, and isn't a Snaggletoothed ugly set?
hardware all there? Do they match?
Rusty? How bad? Just a "bloom"? Meh.....crusty? No.
Price? It had better be almost new, if they want THAT high of a price.....( $56 for one saw, with missing teeth, no etch? Pass)

If the saw passes all the above....good plate, good handle, good hardware, and a decent price.....maybe.