I need to bite the Shop Vac type 'dust collector bullet' - but which one?

[Irvin Gomez]

Short background info: total amateur with a bit of experience, putting in about 4 hours per week in a small room with so-so ventilation. Place is kept clean, but can and need to do much better.

Have been doing a LOT of reading (including threads on these and other forums, reviews, etc.) and I'm more confused than when I started...lol...

Bear with me, please. Considering 2 main scenarios:

1. Build around a Ridgid 1450: Vac, a DustDeputy, an extra hose, an adapter (for different hose sizes), and one of those electrical switches that start vac and tool simultaneously. Total cost: around $300

Advantages: cheaper and gets the job done given my simple needs.
Cons: very noisy, no variable suction control, lesser long-term reliability.


2. Build around a Mirka Dust Collector (apparently as good as Festool and much quieter) plus dust deputy.

Pros: ideal setup. Has all the features I need and want.
Cons: runs about $800 when everything is said and done.

I can afford either one, but I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination. I would go for the Ridgid (noise can be handled), but my greatest fear is that it won't perform well with the Deros sander I'm getting due to the lack of suction control. I hate to buy cheaper stuff only to have to replace it later. But I also hate to spend more than I absolutely need to.

so, my question is this: which bullet should I bite? What's my best long-term move? Am I exaggerating the possible problems with the sander? Do I really need the DustDeputy if I get the top-of-the-line Mirka?

please, help. I need all the advice I can get!

[John T Barker]

This could be an absolutely no help response but...if you can afford more then go with more. Unless you drop woodworking completely count on getting more tools, making more dust. You may get a bigger shop some day as well. I plan on spending a bit less than that on craigslist buys but I will go with no less than a dust collector and air filter. What do you make?

[Irvin Gomez]

This could be an absolutely no help response but...if you can afford more then go with more. Unless you drop woodworking completely count on getting more tools, making more dust. You may get a bigger shop some day as well. I plan on spending a bit less than that on craigslist buys but I will go with no less than a dust collector and air filter. What do you make?

thanks, John! I make small pieces of furniture (simple tables, desks, shoe racks, etc.) and things I need. Right now, I'm making a rack for my DAW rig (love music and do it semi-professionally) that includes a custom case for the computer.

Like a lot of hobbyists, I realize it's cheaper to just buy the stuff I make, but I love the sense of accomplishment in building my own things, plus the fact that I find the physical labor in woodworking pretty relaxing.

[Andrew Howe]

I would go with dust deputy (complete kit) and your HD big orange vacuum. Obviously cheaper and a bit noisier, but you can use the savings to spend on other tools.

[John Lanciani]

I think if I was buying a Deros I'd be buying a vacuum (or "Dust Extractor") to match. If cost was a consideration I'd be looking at the Swiss made Bosch sanders and a Fein or Bosch vac.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Irvin, I have a Festool CT26 which is a great dust extractor.

The vacuum of my choice would be the Festool Midi, smaller, lighter, same performance just a smaller volume bag.

They're quiet, have auto start, variable suction, HEPA rated and something to not discount, they accept Systainer storage containers on top for storage and transport of sanders, drills, tools etc.

For a small space, the systainer gives you extra storage without using any more floor space........Regards, Rod.

[Jack Lemley]

Actually, according to Festool the Midi has 130 CFM and the CT 26 has 137 CFM.

Jack

[Irvin Gomez]

I would go with dust deputy (complete kit) and your HD big orange vacuum. Obviously cheaper and a bit noisier, but you can use the savings to spend on other tools.

That would be my choice, Andrew. I just want to make sure the lack of suction control on the vac will not degrade the sander's performance. Perhaps someone here has experience with that?

[Irvin Gomez]

Question: is the lack of variable suction (Ridgid 1450) a significant factor, in your experience? Do I need the DustDeputy regardless of what vacuum unit I get?

Have been reading about the dangers of fine dust and it's kind of scary (went through several very lengthy threads where some people express fear that Bill Pentz and others greatly exaggerate the actual, real danger for financial gain).

[Maurice Ungaro]

Playing the Dutch uncle, you could always buy an inexpensive Harbor Freight 2hp collector for starters. Down the road, upgrade the filter system to a spun bond cartridge type. Heck, just sell the tailed beasts and come over to the dark side.

[Tom M King]

Check Craigslist. I bought a 2hp Grizzly, to dedicate to a resaw bandsaw, that had maybe been turned on once, for $175. There were a bunch of them on there when I went looking for that one.

[Paul Wunder]

Suction control is important with sanders. Excessive suction can make the sander drag along the wood. See the attached link which discusses using a router speed control with a shop vacuum to achieve variable suction. Seems like a $100 shop vac and a router speed control might work

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?134427-Shop-Vac-and-router-speed-control

[Ole Anderson]

So you seem to be concentrating on dust control from your small tools. Do you have any larger tools that are adding to the problem like a TS, MS, jointer, planer? If so you need something other than a glorified shop vac. If not you are on the right track.

[Rich Engelhardt]

Do I really need the DustDeputyConvenience alone is worth the money...
Last Summer I had to plane about 100 board feet of Cherry.
I'd lucked into a Craftsman dust collector for cheap.
I hooked a Rockler Dust Right (http://www.rockler.com/dust-right-dust-separator?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=Cj0KEQiAz5y1BRDZ4Z_K_eGa84cBEiQAtQkeaHn4NjPB blHmnrlmutt59uA5pNHv6fY-eTKC2MlapR8aAmyD8P8HAQ) up to it. Not a single chip made it past the Dust Right and into the bags of the dust collector.
I just slipped a plastic bag over the Dust Right and emptied it w/out having to screw around taking the canvas bag(s) on and off.

That was onsite at the place I was doing the work.
I plan to replace my shop vac/top hat separator in the shop with the DC/Dust Right in the Spring when I get back into my shop.


Have been reading about the dangers of fine dust and it's kind of scary (went through several very lengthy threads where some people express fear that Bill Pentz and others greatly exaggerate the actual, real danger for financial gain).I'm 63 years old. I'm retired. I was never all that careful about my health. I have COPD. I can't walk more than 30 or 40 feet without having to stop and rest. Instead of doing the things I wanted to do in retirement, I spend all my time leaning up against something trying to catch my breath & all the money I wanted to spend on fishing stuff and tools and other goodies goes to medications @ $295 a pop (I have four of them the doctor wants me to take - - like that's going to happen..)
Look at it this way,,,,if you spend $1200 on something now - - that may help you breath years down the road - you may avoid having to spend that much every month at some point in the future.

[Prashun Patel]

Get the biggest shop vac you can, IMHO. You don't have to get the stainless steel one, but get the one with the biggest motor.

I haven't had issues with the shopvac 'over-sucking' my ROS's. I suspect that the skinnier hoses that fit most ROS's throttles the motor speed for better or worse.

[Irvin Gomez]

So you seem to be concentrating on dust control from your small tools. Do you have any larger tools that are adding to the problem like a TS, MS, jointer, planer? If so you need something other than a glorified shop vac. If not you are on the right track.

I have a Makita Circular Saw with rail track, Makita 1 1/4 Router, a Jessem Doweling Jig, Kreg Pocket Hole jig, Ryobi JigSaw and assorted hand tools (a couple of basic planes, a dozuki saw, etc.). Have been usin an old Sears vac, but planning a move to more serious dust collection, including a ROS.

My 'shop' is a small room with so-so ventilation. No big equipment or plans for it. No table saw.

[Bill White]

If you decide on the Ridgid, get the "muffler" accessory. Sure helps lower the noise.
Bill

[Irvin Gomez]

Convenience alone is worth the money...
Last Summer I had to plane about 100 board feet of Cherry.
I'd lucked into a Craftsman dust collector for cheap.
I hooked a Rockler Dust Right (http://www.rockler.com/dust-right-dust-separator?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=Cj0KEQiAz5y1BRDZ4Z_K_eGa84cBEiQAtQkeaHn4NjPB blHmnrlmutt59uA5pNHv6fY-eTKC2MlapR8aAmyD8P8HAQ) up to it. Not a single chip made it past the Dust Right and into the bags of the dust collector.
I just slipped a plastic bag over the Dust Right and emptied it w/out having to screw around taking the canvas bag(s) on and off.

That was onsite at the place I was doing the work.
I plan to replace my shop vac/top hat separator in the shop with the DC/Dust Right in the Spring when I get back into my shop.

I'm 63 years old. I'm retired. I was never all that careful about my health. I have COPD. I can't walk more than 30 or 40 feet without having to stop and rest. Instead of doing the things I wanted to do in retirement, I spend all my time leaning up against something trying to catch my breath & all the money I wanted to spend on fishing stuff and tools and other goodies goes to medications @ $295 a pop (I have four of them the doctor wants me to take - - like that's going to happen..)
Look at it this way,,,,if you spend $1200 on something now - - that may help you breath years down the road - you may avoid having to spend that much every month at some point in the future.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Rich. I agree it's better to err on the safe side. Our health is all we have.

[Irvin Gomez]

Thanks to all offering generous advice. All of it is very valuable to me.

[Dan Friedrichs]

If you're really only looking at sander dust collection (not big tool chip collection), I'd buy the cheapest $29 Wal-Mart screamer of a shop vac you can find, take the filters off, and put it outside. Even if you're heating/cooling shop air, the heat gain/loss from ~150CFM (max) of air is trivial. Venting outside lets you avoid the need for the dust deputy, you never worry about filters, and you can make it totally quiet.

If you don't want to do that, though, at least buy an after-market HEPA filter for the Ridgid, if that's the one you choose.

[Irvin Gomez]

If you're really only looking at sander dust collection (not big tool chip collection), I'd buy the cheapest $29 Wal-Mart screamer of a shop vac you can find, take the filters off, and put it outside.

I wish I could do that! ...lol...I live in NYC, so you can imagine what such actions would do to my 'popularity' in the neighborhood!

Seriously, though, it's not just the sander. The router and circular saw do produce their share of dust and I'd like to find a sensible long-term solution that does not break the bank.

[Brian Tymchak]

That would be my choice, Andrew. I just want to make sure the lack of suction control on the vac will not degrade the sander's performance. Perhaps someone here has experience with that?

I've been using my Ceros with a Ridgid 5HP shop vac (12 gallon model I think). Works pretty well. You can get a static buildup on the hose that the Mirka system is supposed to dissipate, but I don't find that to be to big of an annoyance. You can also get a muffler attachment (http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-2-1-2-in-Noise-Reduction-Muffler-VT2525/100037235) (not sure if the one I linked to is a fit for the model you are considering) for the shop vac. I have one and it does help some, but I really doubt it will be as quiet as the Mirka. You could use some of the savings to buy an air cleaner or a respirator (or maybe both). I would recommend starting with the ridgid shop vac and if you decide it's not doing all the job you want, then upgrade. It was a $100 experiment. (Less actually because you could probably sell it if you wanted.) Or, a general use shop vac is always handy. ( I have 3). It's also a Wet vac and that might come in handy at some point...

WRT "lack of suction control" - not sure if your concern is that the Ridgid might have lower air flow than the Mirka? If I did the conversion right, the Mirka is rated at 3200 l/min (113 CFM), the Ridgid is rated at 168 CFM.

[Irvin Gomez]

I've been using my Ceros with a Ridgid 5HP shop vac (12 gallon model I think). Works pretty well. You can get a static buildup on the hose that the Mirka system is supposed to dissipate, but I don't find that to be to big of an annoyance. You can also get a muffler attachment (http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-2-1-2-in-Noise-Reduction-Muffler-VT2525/100037235) (not sure if the one I linked to is a fit for the model you are considering) for the shop vac. I have one and it does help some, but I really doubt it will be as quiet as the Mirka. You could use some of the savings to buy an air cleaner or a respirator (or maybe both). I would recommend starting with the ridgid shop vac and if you decide it's not doing all the job you want, then upgrade. It was a $100 experiment. (Less actually because you could probably sell it if you wanted.) Or, a general use shop vac is always handy. ( I have 3). It's also a Wet vac and that might come in handy at some point...

WRT "lack of suction control" - not sure if your concern is that the Ridgid might have lower air flow than the Mirka? If I did the conversion right, the Mirka is rated at 3200 l/min (113 CFM), the Ridgid is rated at 168 CFM.

Great info, Bryan!

My concern with 'suction control' is because I've read that when suction is too strong, the sander is 'stuck' to the the work and performance is compromised.

From all the advice I have received, I'm going to give the Ridgid 1450 + Dust Deputy combo a try (muffler included).

Once again, thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge!

[Brian Tymchak]

My concern with 'suction control' is because I've read that when suction is too strong, the sander is 'stuck' to the the work and performance is compromised.


So, I'm learning something here today. I have not seen this issue (that I know of anyway) with my 5HP ridgid vac. However, it is rated 145 cfm. Maybe a smaller shop vac than the model you are considering might be a better idea. And I noticed someone posted about using a variable control. I may look in to that a bit.

[Mike Chalmers]

Great info, Bryan!

My concern with 'suction control' is because I've read that when suction is too strong, the sander is 'stuck' to the the work and performance is compromised.

From all the advice I have received, I'm going to give the Ridgid 1450 + Dust Deputy combo a try (muffler included).

Once again, thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge!I am using a small 2.5 hp shop vac with Dust Deputy on my ROS. It is dedicated to it. I have a 5 hp with Dust Deputy on my RAS, and another Dust Deputy with a 6.5 HP Ridgid I use on my Table saw overhead, router table and general clean up. I have noticed drag from time to time on my sanding, however, I have never noticed any detrimental effects from it.

[Lester Sak]

I have an old Rigid shop vac (5 or 6 gal. I think) that I use with a Dust Deputy and a Ceros sander and I have no complaints. Quieter would be nicer, but I don't do this for a living. If I did, I might have gotten a Mirka/Festool/Fein/Bosch vac which are quieter when in a clients home, but I just use ear protection and saved lots of $$$.

I've never noticed the sander having so much suction that it sticks to the wood. Whatever you decide I definitely recommend the Dust Deputy, works great. Over the summer I sheetrocked my enclosed front porch (24'x9') and sanded all the joints. The Dust Deputy 5 gallon bucket filled halfway with plaster dust and when I was done, the vac still had the suction it had when I started.

[glenn bradley]

I have a Ridgid convertible that I have been running for a decade or so. I pulled the "leaf blower" top off and made a small chamber for the HEPA filter. Once the Dust Deputy was in the path I just stopped needing the big ole whompin' barrel for it.

330339330340

The whole rig hides easily behind the barrel I used to use.

330341

[Myles Standridge SR]

Lots of opinions. My most important thought is that if you enjoy it then unless something happens you'll be doing woodworking at least off and on for some time and might want to consider the upgrade, that being said you really should consider your health/safety. I had some issues late last year due to (at least I think) sanding dust and upgraded my sander and vacuum. I had a 6.5 HP Rigid/16 gallon with a HEPA filter, with my Rigid 6 in. sander it seemed fine, I got mine before they started making them in China so I can't vouch for the China made model. I've had a PC 5 in. RO sander for years with no dust collection. I decided to buy the Rigid 5 in. mainly for dust collection, the vac caused it to bog down and not work well then the vac built up static and would shock me at the sander. I then read some reviews and found out that this is common and will soon fry the speed control and make it useless so I returned it. I bit the bullet and bought the Festool setup.

Whatever you do get some sort of variable speed control and a HEPA filter. An auto start is really nice, you can get one at Sears. Rockler has a nice hose kit with adapters to fit various portable power tools.

Myles

[Art Mann]

I use the second largest Ridgid vacuum (can't remember the model number) with Ridgid and Dewalt random orbital sanders. I have not had any problems with the sander sticking to the wood. It seems to me that the speed control setting is selecting between very effective and not very effective.

[James W Glenn]

I am collecting the parts for a bog standard option #1 vacuum cart. Same vacuum, an auto switch, speed control and dust deputy. The only thing I am doing different is to use the metal dust deputy. I'm ok if the vacuum and electronics are "consumables" but would rather have the cart and plumbing be durable goods.

[Dan Friedrichs]

This is a quality HEPA filter that many people use:
http://www.cleanstream.com/

[Jim Dwight]

I use a cleanstream on my Rigid (7.2 amps) and a dust deputy. The cyclone does not make the vacuum more powerful it lets you avoid cleaning the filter all the time. It can be a serious waste of time. The HEPA filter protects you from the fine dust the shot vacuum would otherwise just blow around for you to breathe. The filter is more important but if you add it without the cyclone you have to clean it quite often.

For home use, I think a Festool or Fein vacuum is overkill. If you want to spend your money that way I don't have a problem with it but my Rigid is over a decade old and still going strong. You need hearing protection in your shop anyway. The shop vacuum is quieter than my table saw, CMS, radial arm saw or routers. So why is it important to have a quieter vacuum? So I can avoid hearing protection when I vacuum the floor? I'll wear the muffs then too and save the money.

The only tool that my shop vacuum is a bit much with is a Festool hand sander. I will probably try my router speed controller with it. I already have the speed controller since the motor in my router table lacks that capability. So it will cost me nothing and should let me get it where I want it. With my 5 or 6 inch ROS (I have one of each), the shop vacuum/dust deputy using the Bosch 5 meter hose works well.

My setup won't win any awards for appearance but for functionality it is great. Another change I am planning to make is an electrical connection that lets me plug several tools into the auto-on switch at the same time. I'll still have to move the hose but getting rid of half the moving stuff around would be worthwhile. I'm thinking a short electrical cord that splits in two (or possibly three) with a plastic electrical box and outlet on each cord.

[David Malicky]

The Ridgid 1450 is one the quieter shop vacs. It's not a Fein, but it's much quieter than typical ones.

[Brian Akers]

I was also looking at the Rigid 1450. Also looking at this one too:
Vacmaster vbv1210. Thoughts?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0023EY052/ref=as_li_tf_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B0023EY052&linkCode=as2&tag=bestprodtag58490-20

[Ole Anderson]

I have this one, powerful, quiet, highly rated, inexpensive, 11.8 amps. http://www.sears.com/craftsman-xsp-12-gallon-5.5-peak-hp-wet-dry/p-00912006000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

[Jim German]

I'd go with the Ridgid, if you find its got to much suction for the sander, you can always make a choke for it to lessen the airflow.

[Lee Schierer]

A few years ago I purchased a Fein Turbo II and it has been absolutely a worthwhile purchase. With 151 cfm flow rate and 98.4 inches of water lift it has plenty of suction and flow. The built in auto start feature and variable speed make it a very versatile shop vac. It is also very quiet even at full power.

[Greg R Bradley]

If you were wanting a vacuum for a tracksaw, miter saw, Domino, etc. then a regular shop vac would be fine. Adding a HEPA filter is certainly an improvement. Adding a Dust Deputy to cut down on changing bags could be a benefit. However, you aren't asking about these, you are asking about a sander. If you are going to be using a quiet sander, why would you consider a noisy vacuum that might make you want hearing protection?

If you are seriously considering a sander like a Mirka or Festool, then it will probably make the most sense to go with an appropriate Vac. Based upon your location, one with anti-static system will also help with sanding.

I can't imagine a RO sander that won't require variable suction for optimal use but that could depend on the sander and your media. I think Mirkas use a lot of their Abranet media that might be different than what people need with Festool sanders.

I WAS a big Fein fan but their new vacs don't have variable suction so I would drop that from your list of possibles.

"Choking down" a regular shop vac will contribute to failure as they rely on the airflow to keep the motor cool. That is why vacuum tables use Feins or similar as they are happy in that environment.

It seem to me that you should consider what will work for you instead of what works for someone else in a different work environment.

[glenn bradley]

I am collecting the parts for a bog standard option #1 vacuum cart. Same vacuum, an auto switch, speed control and dust deputy. The only thing I am doing different is to use the metal dust deputy. I'm ok if the vacuum and electronics are "consumables" but would rather have the cart and plumbing be durable goods.

Just for reference, I've run the plastic DD almost daily for years with no signs of wear. I do work exclusively in wood though so if you are going to be sucking up something more abrasive than that (and it is plenty abrasive) then the metal unit would be a good choice. Greg makes a good point about noise levels and variable suction. I can't speak to the noise factor since I don't have a quiet sander :). To the variable suction, I do use a vac accessory that has a variable bleeder opening. You definitely don't want the full suck of my loud Ridgid vac if you try to throttle down to a 1" hose; way inefficient. The bleeder makes the suction at the tool variable and very workable. A variable power vac would certainly be more elegant and potentially a better match for a high end sander (I run a $50 Bosch so I am really in the cheap seats here).

[Jim German]

"Choking down" a regular shop vac will contribute to failure as they rely on the airflow to keep the motor cool. That is why vacuum tables use Feins or similar as they are happy in that environment.

There would still be plenty of airflow for cooling.

[David Malicky]

>>"Choking down" a regular shop vac will contribute to failure as they rely on the airflow to keep the motor cool. That is why vacuum tables use Feins or similar as they are happy in that environment."

There would still be plenty of airflow for cooling.
Yes, and only some shop vacs use the vacuumed air for cooling the motor.

[Guy Belleman]

The noise rating of most shopvacs seems to be in the 65 db range. The Penn State Industries 2hp DC is at the same noise rating, and is close to the lower price of option 1.

[Irvin Gomez]

After listening to all the great advice received and reading countless reviews, I went with the Ridgid 1450 and the Bosch ROS65VC-5 sander, instead of the 4x more expensive Mirka vac/sander combo. Incredibly enough, Mirka does not provide a hose with its $500+ vac!

I figured the money saved can go to some tool I might need in the future. Just wanted to provide an update while thanking everyone for sharing their knowledge and experience.

[Mike Chalmers]

Excellent choice although that vacuum may be over powered for this application.
Please let us know how they work together.

[Greg R Bradley]

Two tools that are pretty decent on their own but will not work together at all well. What is the plan for a hose to connect them and how will you deal with adjusting the suction? Are you just going to toss the anti-static in your winter use?

[Mike Chalmers]

Are you just going to toss the anti-static in your winter use? Please explain this comment. If you mean dealing with static build up in the hose, I do not believe that to be a problem. I am using a standard shop vac and the same sander. There definitely is static build up during sanding sessions, however, it is very mild and I do not believe it is anything to worry about. This si my opinion based on practical experience. I have no empirical evidence.

[Andrew Howe]

Hi guys,
I have a ridgid vac on my dust deputy and as others have said, a muffler works great. I noticed quite a reduction in noise when I put the hose on the exhaust port and it may be another way to reduce noise.

[David Linnabary]

I've owned the Ceros and the Mirka shop vac that they sell to go with it and have been more than pleased. What I find is that it's size makes it nice for taking on site, it's quiet and very efficient keeping the air dust free. I've sanded drywall in someone's home and they barely knew I had been there.

The Mirka vac has a high and low setting and a setting that senses when the sander is on which turns the sander on and off automatically. It's a sweet setup.

Shop vac's are out there on craigslist for cheap, why not have a couple different ones for different needs. I agree that a big shop vac is nice.

David

[Greg R Bradley]

Please explain this comment. If you mean dealing with static build up in the hose, I do not believe that to be a problem. I am using a standard shop vac and the same sander. There definitely is static build up during sanding sessions, however, it is very mild and I do not believe it is anything to worry about. This si my opinion based on practical experience. I have no empirical evidence.
I'm in SoCal and don't have much issue with static here. When sanding in a cold climate I have experienced lots of issues with static. A tracksaw with vac attached will eventually give you some issue with dust blocking the inside but that takes some time. A sander causes an issue much faster. I finally bought a Festool vac with the anti-static system when doing a big project in my vacation house in UT.
Clearly its very cold in the winter in your area. If you aren't seeing a problem perhaps the higher humidity helps. It sounds like you would have a better idea of what he will see in his climate.

[Irvin Gomez]

Two tools that are pretty decent on their own but will not work together at all well. What is the plan for a hose to connect them and how will you deal with adjusting the suction? Are you just going to toss the anti-static in your winter use?

The Bosch sander has a "suction control" opening that is supposed to work (have no idea how well - but I'll try it and report back). I bought a Bosh vac hose ( http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AV78B?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01).

Your points are very valid and I considered them - but in the end, I figured the Ridgid vac's cost is a very small risk to run (if not satisfied I will be out of $100 only) versus spending money ($700) on a clearly better product that might be overkill for my needs. That said, you can rest assured that the lust was and is there!

[Dan T Jones]

Smart move.