Minwax Tung Oil Finish - Food Safe?

[Edward Weingarden]

Not sure what's in the Tongue Oil Finish (tongue oil, BLO, mineral spirits???). Will it be food safe after adequate drying time? Thanks.

[John Keeton]

All commercial finishes are food safe once fully cured.

[Edward Weingarden]

Thanks John.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

NO BLO and NO Tung OIL, it is a called a FINISH, not Tung oil.
Here is the part of the MSDS, shows the two hazardous ingredients, 65% mineral spirits and some Cobalt 2-Ethylhexanoate.

Then next it shows that there is no Polymerization, meaning there is no Tung oil or Blo in there, as those do polymerize.

Kind of expensive mineral spirits I think.

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[Bill Boehme]

There was a recent thread on the AAW forum titled WATCO Danish Oil. One of the members sent an email to Rustoleum to ask about food safeness. Here is an excerpt from their reply:

"The only product that we have that is compliant to use on food prep or storage pieces would be our Watco Butcher Block Oil. It can be safely used for butcher blocks, cutting boards, salad bowls and other wooden items that require a food safe finish. More information can be found at the following link. http://www.rustoleum.com/product-cat...il-and-finish/. "


If you want to read the whole thread, it was earlier this month and may have scrolled off page 1 by now, so just search for the title.

[Michelle Rich]

I have never believed the "all finishes are safe when dry" Not with the chemicals that are in them. If you want to be safe use nothing on foodware, or beeswax and oil.

[John Keeton]

This issue arises on a regular basis and always presents conflicting positions, and one must find his or her own comfort level. For aesthetic reasons, I don't like film finishes for utilitarian items. I use walnut oil. But, for what it is worth, here is a post from another forum - "According to Bob Flexner, the king of finishes...
“No myth in wood finishing is more ingrained in the psyche of woodworkers than the belief that oil and varnish finishes containing metallic driers are unsafe to eat off of, or to be chewed by children. . . . Salad bowl finsih is Varnish!. . . they contain the same driers as the oils and varnishes woodworkers are told to shy away from. . . in fact all finishes are safe to eat off of or to be chewed once the finish has fully cured. . . the rule of thumb is 30 days.”
The clincher was an FDA excerpt on the same page of Flexner’s book. I understand that the FDA evolves and is quite often wrong as time passes, but they are about as accurate as can be with the knowledge known at any given time. It stated:
“The FDA lists that all common driers are safe for food contact as long as the finish is made properly – that is, as long as the finish cures.”
Flexner states that in his many years, he has never heard of an account in which a cured clear finish has been reported as having caused a health issue in adults or children."

[Aaron Craven]

(note -- I'm hardly an expert here, but here's my two cents anyway)

I (for the most part) also think it's easy to overreact over "food safeness" in many of these finishes. I do think it matters what the intended use is... If the bowl is going to be in direct contact with food (especially food that may have a wet surface like a salad bowl that contaminants can stick to), I don't think I'd want to use anything other than a natural oil or maybe wax finish (though I don't think I'd want wax in such a case because it would be easily damaged and not so easily repaired). For something else, though... a bowl for candy, unshelled nuts, etc, I don't think there's much cause for concern over a cured finish of just about any type. That said, I've used danish oil on a piece that still has a slight odor to it many months later, which makes me think it's still not fully cured. So I think the 30 day rule of thumb might be a bit less conservative than I would suggest.

For reasons more to do with durability, I also don't think I'd use a film finish on a utility piece. And I've come to really like walnut oil over other oils (especially BLO) because it doesn't yellow as much, it smells better, it feels better, and it's more natural. It does take a little longer to dry (er... cure, technically) and many turners will tell you that it will never fully cure. I don't know if that's the case or not, but in the end, it's just walnut oil... if the surface of the wood eventually bleeds a little back out (usually due to heat), you can just wipe it off (or leave it if it doesn't bother you). To me, no finish is no easier to maintain than a simple walnut oil finish. If it needs a touch up, you can just reapply a little. Rub it in, wipe it down, let it dry a little, done.

As for the tung oil... does the MSDS sheet list all the ingredients or just the hazardous ingredients? Shouldn't tung oil (even a tung oil finish) contain... ya know... tung oil?

[Jon Nuckles]

As for the tung oil... does the MSDS sheet list all the ingredients or just the hazardous ingredients? Shouldn't tung oil (even a tung oil finish) contain... ya know... tung oil?

Nope. This is one of Flexner's pet peeves, which he has written about more than once. Most of the products labeled "tung oil finish" contain no tung oil. It is nothing but misleading marketing.

[Michael Schneider]

Allergies are something to think about. Many people are allergic to tree nuts.

I go to the pharmacy can buy pure mineral oil ( castor oil also works well). This was about as safe of a finish that I could find a couple of years ago.

Note: Caster oil will cause intestinal distress if consumed in large quantities......

Michael

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Nope. This is one of Flexner's pet peeves, which he has written about more than once. Most of the products labeled "tung oil finish" contain no tung oil. It is nothing but misleading marketing.

That is exactly what I was trying to get across, so first of all there is no Tung oil in the can or Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO has driers in it), if there was, then the warning for dangerous polymerization had to be on the MSDS sheet, and it explicitly spells out that there isn’t any, because as we all know, or should know, that these oils (Tung and BLO) can spontaneously combust when rags or towels do have these oils in it and are not safely discarded of.

The second thing was, that there are some hazardous ingredients in it, (they are spelled out) so what you are thinking to be a nice tung oil and BLO finish, is actual just a lot of mineral spirits (like paint thinners) and I would not knowingly pour a bunch of paint thinners into a bowl (Salad or other food use bowl) and think that would make a nice finish and be a healthy finish :rolleyes:

[John Keeton]

Allergies are a whole category unto themselves. I do agree that walnut oil could, and probably does, contain nut proteins, which are apparently the offending ingredient for nut allergies. My limited experience is that folks with nut allergies are SUPER careful of their situation, and would probably steer clear of using anything resembling a nut wood, or anything finished with a wood product. It would be wise if selling those items to indicate the finish used.

But, allergies, in general, are an entirely different topic than the question of whether any finish is "food safe."

[Aaron Craven]

...and think that would make a nice finish and be a healthy finish :rolleyes:

Doesn't sound like you need an adjective here... sounds to me like it isn't actually "a finish" at all!

[Thom Sturgill]

Allergies are something to think about. Many people are allergic to tree nuts.



While true, both Doctor's Woodshop finishes and Mahoney state that their Walnut oil is purified to a point that the proteins that cause allergic reactions have been completely removed. BTW, the 'Doctor' in Doctor's Woodshop is a PhD biochemist and turner. DO NOT use grocery store walnut oil!

I have been told that Walnut, Tung, and Linseed are the only three oils that polimerize (cure). That said, I used Olive oil for salad serving bowls for my family. Damp wipe and re-oil with the olive oil already in the kitchen.

[Frederick Skelly]

I don't know if this is suitable for turned objects, but when I needed a food safe finish for a cutting board, I used mineral oil that I bought at the pharmacy. The label had clear instructions describing "internal use" and the Pharmacist confirmed it can be taken orally. So I believe it to be safe to use on cutting boards, etc.
Fred

[Michael Schneider]

John,

A good friend of mine has a child that is deathly allergic to many things. I guess I look at a food safe finish as one that I can use to put on a bowl and give (maybe someday sell :-) ) to anyone to use for food. I look at a food safe finish as one that is safe for someone to eat from, even if they have allergies.


I am influenced by my friends child. Is this the wrong way of looking at what food safe means?

Just curious if my situation is incorrectly clouding my view of making something food safe.

Thanks
Michael

[John Keeton]

Michael, I am merely saying that the terms "food safe" or "food grade" are terms that are used by the FDA and the general public, and those terms do not account for the plethora of allergies that exist. There are also allergies that are wood species specific - rosewood family, walnut, cedar, etc., that can rear their ugly head on mere contact. If someone asks if a particular finish is allergy safe, that question probably has no good answer. There just are too many variables.

I am blessed to have nearly non-existent allergy issues, but if I suffered from allergic reactions, I think I would avoid eating from wooden utensils of any kind.

[Cosmos Krejci]

I used to use mineral oil on my cutting boards until I realized it's made from petroleum. Banned from food use in the EU.

I don't buy the "safe when cured" for a cutting board as you'll be cutting flakes off.

The marketing is annoying. Once, when I was out of town, my wife went to the hardware store to get "oil" to finish our adirondack chairs. I came back to find them varnished (marketed as seal fin oil or something.. but it's varnish)

Why not use real Tung Oil? Note, on the allergy front, it is known to trip nut allergies.

[Rob Price]

I've used the minwax 'tung oil' and I'm pretty sure it's a varnish. varnishes, once cured, are inert plastics. All those harmful distillates are what flash off as it's drying. The 30 day is a general rule of thumb, Flexner points out if you can smell solvent it's still curing. Like others, I don't use varnishes in bowls for food mainly because it will chip over time. That being said the first bowl I ever turned got coated with General WTF (water based poly) and is my go to popcorn bowl- and it's held up great.

For my end grain cutting boards, the wood whisperer had s good article a while back- he thins a varnish with mineral spirits and let's that soak into the open grain, then sands the surface. No film, but the end grain is sealed. I use a home made wax made from food grade beeswax and mineral oil to treat the surface from time to time, but my cutting board dries much faster now than it used to. Doesn't absorb stains either.

[Pat Scott]

Like others, I don't use varnishes in bowls for food mainly because it will chip over time. That being said the first bowl I ever turned got coated with General WTF (water based poly) and is my go to popcorn bowl- and it's held up great.

For my end grain cutting boards, the wood whisperer had s good article a while back- he thins a varnish with mineral spirits and let's that soak into the open grain, then sands the surface. No film, but the end grain is sealed.

I agree that varnish or poly when used full strength in bowls will create a film finish that can chip, and because of this it is not a good choice for a utility bowl when used full strength. The Wood Whisperer's recipe will not chip because the varnish is diluted (quote from his episode: "Dilute Varnish 50%. General Finish top coat, Salad Bowl Finish, are all fine."). If enough coats are put on then it will create a film, but the key is to stop before that happens.

The comment I want to make is that Wood Whisperer said Varnish, GF Top Coat or Salad Bowl Finish are fine to dilute. If you look at the ingredients that make up Top Coat and Salad Bowl finish, they are nothing more than Danish Oil which means they are already diluted. So Wood Whisperer is taking a diluted varnish blend and diluting it even more. Danish Oil is a loose and broad term for a mixture of a binder (oil), resin (varnish), and carrier (Mineral Spirits). Top Coat and Salad Bowl Finish use different amounts of these ingredients, but the general rule of thumb is equal parts of each. I stopped using Salad Bowl Finish years ago because I think it's kind of heavy with the varnish ratio and I found my bowls were building up a plastic looking film.

I use Danish Oil for all of my utility bowls, and one of the reasons is because the finish does hold up great like you said. The oil conditions the wood and the (thinned) varnish fills the pores. I have yet to recoat any of my utility bowls that I've finished with Danish Oil. I apply 2-3 coats of Danish Oil which is enough to give a lasting and durable finish. Comments along the lines of "I wouldn't eat off of anything treated with chemicals" are nothing more than personal opinion and are unfounded from a health aspect.

I don't understand people that say it's fine to use Salad Bowl Finish (because of it's name or because the can says it's food safe), but these same people think it's not OK to use Danish Oil. They are the same thing!