Tell me why I should buy a Domino

[Jon Endres]

Once I'm done building and setting up my new shop, I have a long, long list of projects to complete. Some are simple shop projects, some are cabinets, and some are what most people would consider good furniture. I'm tired of some of the "junk" furniture that we have acquired over the years and I want to replace some of it with higher-quality, solid wood pieces. Although I don't have the immediate need or finances for it, I am considering purchasing a Festool Domino machine. However, I'm not convinced that these are as amazing as they appear to be. Especially given the high cost. Most everything I have built in my life has been either utility furniture (such as cheap pine bookshelves) or decent kitchen cabinets (plywood and pocket screws), and so far have not had the need for something like this. I used to have a Porter-Cable biscuit joiner and hated it, sold it cheap to a buddy of mine.

My preferred style of furniture is shaker or "country-style" - simple lines, strong and solid, clear finishes, natural woods. Most of what I need to build are larger pieces - a china hutch, a sideboard, a dining room table, several bookshelves (and I like barrister-style cases). Just not sure if the loose-tenon method of joinery works well with my goals and desires. For those of you who have one of these, tell me why you bought it and why you prefer it over other methods of joinery?

[Von Bickley]

I can not help you with that decision. I don't have one, don't need one, and can not justify spending that much money for one.

I do have the Jessem Doweling Jig 8350, and the Kreg Pocket Hole Jig. They will have to work for me.

[Wade Lippman]

You certainly don't need one. I made great furniture before I had one with pocket screws, and an old Stanley doweling jig I got at a garage sale for a dollar.

But I love my domino. It is fast, strong and elegant. But there are always a variety of ways to make any joint that don't require a $1,000 tool.

[Prashun Patel]

I like it because it is quick and strong.

The genius of domino is the variable width switch. You can cut one side of the joint to fit the tenon tightly and the other side wider. This little bit of slop allows you to manipulate the fit. This means layout is greatly simplified. You dont have to be that precise about your marks.

the fence can be angled and the depth can be adjusted easily. This makes it versatile in many more situations than a dowel jig.

there are pins on the face of the fance that simplify alignment. This again means layout is simplified.

the depth and height stops are indexed so unlike other jigs, resetting is easy.

Unlike other jigs, you can vary the size of the tenons you use. So it can be used for large and delicate joints alike.

Loose tenon joinery allows you to cut butt joints for all your parts. This again simplifies measurement and cutting.

I appreciate the domino more and more the longer i own it. I do believe it is genius.

i have owned the small and large units and recommend the large one. It is more versatile and with an adapter can do everything the smaller one can.

last, if you do not love it, you will be able to resell it for close to your purchase price.

[John Lanciani]

For me it is about productivity. When I'm doing something for myself woodworking is more about the journey so I use hand tools and traditional methods and enjoy every minute of it. When I'm working on a commission ( or a utility piece for my home or shop) it's all about the destination and out comes the domino (or the Leigh FMT if the domino isn't the right tool for the application) and I get it done and move on with life. The domino is easily 10x faster than doing M&T joinery with machines and 20+x faster than hand work. I can bang out all the joinery for a shaker style side table in less than 5 minutes with the domino and no one will ever know the difference.

The domino is a game changer once you learn how to play to its strengths and avoid its limitations. Mine has paid for itself many times over with its speed and accuracy.

[Mike Henderson]

In general, I do a lot of mortise and tenon furniture. Making tenons is easy on a table saw, but making mortises is difficult except with a horizontal slot mortiser. The Domino is basically a portable mortise maker. I wasn't sure I'd like it but I borrowed a friend's Domino and after using it about a week, I bought one myself. It was a good purchase (for me).

Whether it's worth it for you, only you can decide. If you can borrow one and use it a few days, it will help you make your decision.

Mike

[Cary Falk]

You can cut one side of the joint to fit the tenon tightly and the other side wider. This little bit of slop allows you to manipulate the fit. This means layout is greatly simplified. You dont have to be that precise about your marks.


Not to hijack this thread or badmouth the Domino, but this might help the OP in his decision. I hear the above statement in various forms a lot. It would seem to me that a sloppy fitting domino would defeat the purpose of a strong joint. I see tons of DIY slot mortise, horizontal router tables, Doweling jigs, Mortis pal, etc and never has anybody say they need a sloppy fit. Some people that make handmade mortis and tendons use block planes and chisels to get a perfect fit. I have the Jessem 8300 doweling jig and it is Deadly accurate. I can put 15 dowels in a board and they will line up exactly.

I thought of buying a Domino once but all of the "sloppy" comments made me pause. What I always get from these discussions is it is supper easy to make a sloppy joint. What else am I missing?

[Doug Hepler]

I have been at this seriously (30+ hours a week) for 15 years and do not own a Domino. Most of my work involves M&T joinery. I admit it took me a while to get used to making mortises with shop-made mortise jigs (most of that was getting used to using a router). Soon, however, I was very efficient cutting mortises . I eventually bought a Trend M/T jig for a few hundred dollars. It is very convenient for cutting mortises and even makes decent tenons, now that I have given up my TS. I believe that PVA glue joints are at least as strong as the wood, but I still don't fancy loose tenons.

I also use an inexpensive (Wolfcraft?) doweling jig on the few occasions when I want to use dowels.

Mainly it's the opportunity cost. I can think of many things that I would rather have for the price of a Domino.

People who have them seem to love them, so maybe I don't know what I'm missing. That's just as well because I can't (won't) play the Festool game.

Doug

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

It would seem to me that a sloppy fitting domino would defeat the purpose of a strong joint. I see tons of DIY slot mortise, horizontal router tables, Doweling jigs, Mortis pal, etc and never has anybody say they need a sloppy fit.


He didn't say sloppy fit, and it's not a sloppy fit.

The Domino is incredibly precise. So much so that there is no play at all, so if your two mortises are off by 1/64", then your parts will be off by 1/64". The Domino lets you cut the mortise slightly wider, so you have a little side to side room for alignment.

Say that you use 8mm x 25mm dominoes. The wider slot option will give you something like 8mm x 28mm (just guessing off the top of my head).
The domino is 8mm thick, and still fits very tightly. It just gives you a little room to adjust the side to side alignment of your parts.

[Andrew Hughes]

I like the Domino,I bring the tool to the work instead of the work to the tool.But it is expensive it's really a professional tool.Someone who needs things joined together fast and accurate.If your just starting out probably won't need it.Theres lots of ways to join wood together with confidence .

[Brian Henderson]

Honestly, unless you have a really immediate need for it, don't buy it. In a few years, there will be plenty of Domino-style machines out there that cost a fraction of what Festool is charging. The same happened with biscuits, people were paying through the nose for Lamello machines and then anyone could make them and they became very affordable.

[David Eisenhauer]

To build some of the furniture (as opposed to rougher, quicker shop stuff) you have described above, some form of M&T joinery will be required. M&T is another three or four steps above pocket screws (pocket screws are not applicable to butt joinery in furniture) and a step better than using a single dowel (which can allow twisting) at a butt joint. You can use hand tools to create both the M and the T, a combination of a TS or BS to cut the tenons and a mortising machine or router to cut the M, or use a router to cut two mortises and add in a loose tenon cut with a power tool of some type. You can also use a multiple dowel setup at a joint, but that gets trick to line up. You have stated that you did not care for the biscuit joiner, so that is out. If hand tools is also out, then you could also use a Domino. Maybe you can get somewhere to see a demo or someone to show you how a Domino works and that could help you decide if that is the power M&T method you prefer. If you already own a router and are comfortable with it, loose tenon joinery is fairly close to the Domino and works well. The key to loose tenon joinery is having a decent mortising jig. This may be a cheaper (but still very viable) alternative to the Domino.

[Richard Shaefer]

Honestly, unless you have a really immediate need for it, don't buy it. In a few years, there will be plenty of Domino-style machines out there that cost a fraction of what Festool is charging. The same happened with biscuits, people were paying through the nose for Lamello machines and then anyone could make them and they became very affordable.


Because track saws have gotten so much cheaper since non-Festool variants came out? Yeah, you can buy a cheap Grizzly one, but every other reputable brand is in the same price bracket.

[Rick Lizek]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2RQcClMWeh4

Can't beat this in cost or simplicity

[Brian Henderson]

Because track saws have gotten so much cheaper since non-Festool variants came out? Yeah, you can buy a cheap Grizzly one, but every other reputable brand is in the same price bracket.

Track saws are still relatively new, but yes, there are plenty of cheaper options out there that work just as well as Festool, or at least do work that people need done for lots less money. In another year, there will be lots more.

[Cary Falk]

Because track saws have gotten so much cheaper since non-Festool variants came out? Yeah, you can buy a cheap Grizzly one, but every other reputable brand is in the same price bracket.

I'm into my DeWalt + short track for $310. Dewalt accessories are much cheaper also.

I'll wait for the Bosch Domino clone.

[Cary Falk]

He didn't say sloppy fit, and it's not a sloppy fit.

The Domino is incredibly precise. So much so that there is no play at all, so if your two mortises are off by 1/64", then your parts will be off by 1/64". The Domino lets you cut the mortise slightly wider, so you have a little side to side room for alignment.

Say that you use 8mm x 25mm dominoes. The wider slot option will give you something like 8mm x 28mm (just guessing off the top of my head).
The domino is 8mm thick, and still fits very tightly. It just gives you a little room to adjust the side to side alignment of your parts.

If I have side room for alignment then it is a sloppy fit.

[Art Mann]

I used to use M&T joints. I cut mortises with a hollow chisel mortiser. I cut the tenons on a table saw. It worked well but it took a lot of time. Several years ago, I bought a Dowelmax doweling jig and I haven't cut a M&T joint since. I think a Domino would be faster than a doweling jig but not as strong as using multiple pins. The Dowelmax allows using an array of pins in a single large joint without any accuracy problem. I don't know how accurate multiple Domino mortises would be but I would like to find out.

[Tom Ewell]

Bought a Festool tracksaw early on, found it highly useful
Bought a Fein multimaster early on, found it highly useful.
Bought a Festool Domino early on, found it highly useful.

What they do is not something I couldn't already accomplish using other means and methods but what they do allows for more efficiency.... for me. The actual benefit in acquiring these tools is unforeseen by the user until they actually have them in hand. They can change the way one goes about doing the things they always done and discover ways to do things they've not yet done.

Same could be said about motorized mitersaws, jigsaws, tablesaws, pneumatic fasteners, cordless drills and the like.

[Prashun Patel]

The slop is in the width not thickness. The part of the mortise that is loose is usually end grain so you don't sacrifice any glue strength.

If you wish to make your domino tight because you want mechanical strength from a tenon that fits in all dimensions, you can do that too. The domino supports either method.

You can control the slop.

[Harlan Barnhart]

To the opening post, everything done by the domino can be accomplished another way so it is not essential but rather a matter of convenience or efficiency. I've had one for years and I use it several times a week, but I could do without. I find it most useful for small jobs where set up for other methods would eat up too much time. For big jobs, say doors for whole kitchen, its not that useful, but for a small project, say six doors or less, it can save a lot of time. Its also most useful for working with solid wood. It can be used for working with sheet stock but I find other methods faster for that. Perhaps the greatest strength of the domino is that it is designed to work well in so many solid wood joints, tabletops, legs and aprons, face fronts, doors (cabinet size and full size), chair parts, drawer boxes (not the easiest method, but I have used it for special applications), ect... For the type of work you are proposing, making furniture to suit yourself, at your own pace, from solid wood, I think you will find it useful. When you are finished with it, sell it and get 75% of the cost back.

[mreza Salav]

If I have side room for alignment then it is a sloppy fit.

first of all you can get a very tight fit all around but if you have a series of slots to make in a line (doesn't matter how you make them, by hand and chisel, domino, etc) it would be very difficult to get the spacing all accurate and there is no need to as that space on the side is end-grain to face grain join.

[Mike Henderson]

If I have side room for alignment then it is a sloppy fit.
You don't have to make the mortise wider than the Domino. But there's a reason some people do it. Let's say you're putting in five Dominoes across a board. If your layout is exact, it all goes together fine. But if you're a slight bit off with one, the two boards will not go together. Festool recommends making one mortise small, then the other four on that board a bit wider to make sure the boards go together okay. All five on the other board are made small (tight).

I did that after I got the Festool training but then switched to tight all around and haven't had a problem getting boards together.

Mike

[Marty Schlosser]

Hi, Jon,

Machines such as the Domino are designed to save time in the shop. As many others have already mentioned, there are other, reasonably efficient ways to achieve the same precision without having to invest in such a machine. But they're more time-intensive. If the extra time you'll save in using a Domino is important to you, then you should consider it. Someone has already mentioned that they were able to borrow one to try it out in their shop, and based on that trial, concluded they needed one. Perhaps that would be a good approach to consider, as this is a fairly large investment for many woodworkers.

There are others who look upon their woodworking not so much as the work they create, but the journey. For such craftspersons, many prefer to do as much of their work as possible using hand tools. For such individuals, a Domino is not something that would appeal to them.

Floating Tenons vrs Traditional Tenons. Then there's the issue of the style of joint the machine creates, which is a floating tenon joint (meaning that you make mortises in each piece to be joined and slip in a tenon; that's why these are often referred to as slip tenon joints). Many others will tell you that floating tenon joinery is not as strong as traditional tenons, which may be a consideration. I'm not one of those, as much of my work involves angled and curved work, where a tenon that is formed out of the end of the male section would be weakened because of the significant amount of cross-grain wood which would result from such effort.

I should mention here that I own a Felder slot mortiser as well as a Domino 500. I also own several routers, some of which I used to use to rout mortises before I purchased the Domino. In my shop these tools all have their places. I prefer the Domino for the smaller joints and the slot mortiser for those projects requiring larger and deeper mortises, especially on curved work where the work needs to be clamped down to achieve accuracy on such joints. For me, the Domino 700 wouldn't be a good fit. But if efficiency was not a consideration, truth be known, I could get by with routers or evena brace and bit and chisel.

330093

[Greg Mann]

Interesting no one has mentioned virtually 100% dust collection.

[Susumu Mori]

LOL. Very true. We now take it so much for granted.

[Tom Ewell]

Interesting no one has mentioned virtually 100% dust collection.

Yer right!
Maybe that's included in the efficiency part of the equation.
Suppose now we'll all need to discuss the virtues of dust free operation along with cutter longevity and the mortise being cleaned out and ready.
;)

[glenn bradley]

So the rest of us won't feel dumb for having spent so much to do such a simple job :D. Just kidding . . . I'm trying to avoid temptation.

[Tom Ewell]

I guess for all who only work in the shop, not as much 'need' but I found the thing really handy for installing staircase parts, especially when aligning and locking position of the rails using the domino in combo with Seneca's self centering jig before tightening the bolts. A single cut with the Domino replaces the need to bore two dowel holes to prevent twisting of something like balusters.


The door and fixed panel of this under stairs 'dog cage' is completely assembled with dominos, didn't have to be..... but dry fitting the 'bars' was much simpler, less chance of miss fits because of on site angle conditions (had to match the angles of a 80 plus year old staircase) the beaded frames aligned perfectly and the customer paid enough without having to pay the 'extra' for me to cut and fit fixed M&T joints or boring extra dowel holes to lock the 'bars' particularly for the angled tops of the fixed panel.
Scale wise the door frame is 5/4 with milled 5/16 bead and the 'bars' are a just shy 3/4 by enough width to appropriately accommodate the 5mm domino mortise on tight setting.
330112

No way am I inferring that this thing could not be done without a domino but putting it together with one worked well for me, it got out of the shop on time and all parties are happy.

[Jon Endres]

Thanks for all the replies. I think that, to convince myself I need one, I'd probably have to use one first. It appears to be a reliable substitute for hand- or machine-cut mortise and tenons. It's certainly acceptable for the type of furniture and cabinets that I want to make.

[Mark Gibney]

As there is no strength in the long grain of the tenon to the end grain of the mortise (e.g. in rail to stile joinery) the strength of the joint is not compromised by the loose tenon having some lateral movement.

[Cody Colston]

I can not help you with that decision. I don't have one, don't need one, and can not justify spending that much money for one.

What he said.

[johnny means]

If I have side room for alignment then it is a sloppy fit.

So if a dowel doesn't bottom out on both ends, is that a sloppy fit?

[Mike Heidrick]

If you have to be told why you need to buy a domino, you don't need to buy a domino. The same goes for most any tool in a woodworking shop.

If you are interested at all in trying one out, Festool tools have a no hassle 30 day return policy so you can use one and see if you like it.

[Peter Quinn]

Price...speed....quality....pick the two that are most important to you and that will define the method you use to join wood at right angles....also defines your MO for many other things in life. Pick two, because its pretty rare you can get all three in one package. There are lots of ways to joint wood at right angles, I use pretty much all of them in my job as a cabinet maker. Different situations call for different plans of attack. I need to get jobs out the door at the highest quality possible, I need as few call backs for failures as possible, I need to work as quickly as possible while accomplishing number's one and two. There is no faster way to make accurate strong furniture type joints with shop hand or power tools than a domino. Loose tenons have nearly all the strength of an integral tenon, they are significantly faster to make consistently than traditional tenon methods, and they have something like 20 times the long grain glue surface of a dowel. For narrow rails in more delicate objects I prefer a dovetail on top rails for best work, a domino is a very close second....dowels are virtually useless. You can't fit two in narrow rails, they stand a good chance of rotation, either at glue up or in the future. People say "they are strong because I use two or three dowels.." A domino is like having 20 dowels in 2" rail....can you put twenty dowels in a 2" rail? You can design good furniture that can be well made with dowels, but not every design works well with dowels, dominos are very versatile that way, there is a size for almost every application. I use to run an automated passage door dowel machine, its a pretty hard joint to break, quick and accurate for wider work...doesn't scale down so well.

I like Mike's suggestion. Test drive one, Festool encourages it. But don't do that if you really can't afford one at present, its a hard tool to send back. I suggest you pick a project, set up your design, build through an actual project with a domino, if you don't like it, or don't find its worth the asking, hold them to their offer and send it back.

I should note...I have used a domino professionally for 10 years, have requested one at every job I've gone to, but don't own one for my home shop. Sure wish I did, but I bought a slot mortiser to handle bigger mortises for entry ways. Now I'm using the big domino at work, and would definitely have bought that instead.

[Bill Orbine]

I have the domino 500 and I use it professionally since it's introduction. Just about every job since new. One of the primary goals of the machine is to justify the purchase...especially higher priced machines. Once I have the machine (whatever it may be....the Domino or some other cool tool), I try to incorporate it into regular routine as much as possible. You need to think if this machine is a one time deal or if you can use it more often than not. The Domino is one of those machines that have it's place in the shop. You will find a use for it if you do regular shop work. Finally, this is a machine that has a good resale value.......there isn't too many used models on the market. If there is one, it'll be an easy sell for a good price for the seller!

[Cary Falk]

So if a dowel doesn't bottom out on both ends, is that a sloppy fit?

They are not talking about both ends. They are talking about making the hole wider then the domino. For clarification they are putting a 5mm x 15mm domino into a 5mm x18mm hole. I don't know the exact dimensions but it should get the picture across. Then the justification that the holes are on long grain only where it is not needed for strength, which was never mentioned before. Floating or true tendons are never always on long grain to long grain. A lot of the time it is end grain into song grain like a leg to an apron. I just built a bed and where the headboard met the post I put a row of 10 dowels. They lined up perfectly. I could have put 40 and the would have still have lined perfectly. No enlarging the holes. I didn't have to pay $900 to do it.

[Dan Hahr]

They are not talking about both ends. They are talking about making the hole wider then the domino. For clarification they are putting a 5mm x 15mm domino into a 5mm x18mm hole. I don't know the exact dimensions but it should get the picture across. Then the justification that the holes are on long grain only where it is not needed for strength, which was never mentioned before. Floating or true tendons are never always on long grain to long grain. A lot of the time it is end grain into song grain like a leg to an apron. I just built a bed and where the headboard met the post I put a row of 10 dowels. They lined up perfectly. I could have put 40 and the would have still have lined perfectly. No enlarging the holes. I didn't have to pay $900 to do it.

Yes, but dowels are dowels and Dominoes are, well, stronger due to the gluing surfaces involved, if nothing else. That said, I'll cut my mortises with a mortise machine or chisel.

Dan

[Brian Henderson]

Yes, but dowels are dowels and Dominoes are, well, stronger due to the gluing surfaces involved, if nothing else. That said, I'll cut my mortises with a mortise machine or chisel.

Dan

Dominos are just larger dowels. They may have larger gluing surface, but if you use more dowels, they are no better.

[Jim Becker]

Jon, I'm working on the exact same decision myself right now and it's most likely that the Domino XL will be the first tool purchase I've made in years. I've studied this tool quite a bit lately, watching the videos and communicating with some owners. And at this point, I think it might be the perfect fit for a number of projects I have planned for some time, but never got around to for a variety of reasons.
-----

Brian, I think it's a bit of a simplification comparing dowels to Dominos. A better comparison is loose tenons because of the glue surface and I do not believe that just adding more dowels will add strength in the same way that a longer and wider Domino/tenon can after glue-up.

[Tony Leonard]

I have been considering one too. I have a mortiser, so I am having a hard time convincing myself to sort of duplicate tools. I know, I know, very different, but the outcome is sort of the same. There are things the Domino would do that I couldn't do on the mortiser. Hmmmmmm..... One thing I have noticed is that I have never heard any negatives other than price. Even saw Paul Schurch use one on RoughCut I believe....his work is realy something. Anyway, no doubt it would be nice to have, but that is a lot of dough. Went through the same with a Tormek and I have really enjoyed having it for many years now. Same with the TS, the router,....hey, there is a theme here! Cars...houses....

Tony

[Mike Goetzke]

Jon, I'm working on the exact same decision myself right now and it's most likely that the Domino XL will be the first tool purchase I've made in years. I've studied this tool quite a bit lately, watching the videos and communicating with some owners. And at this point, I think it might be the perfect fit for a number of projects I have planned for some time, but never got around to for a variety of reasons.
-----

Brian, I think it's a bit of a simplification comparing dowels to Dominos. A better comparison is loose tenons because of the glue surface and I do not believe that just adding more dowels will add strength in the same way that a longer and wider Domino/tenon can after glue-up.

Years ago I bought a Domino 500 in the good old days when for a short time we were able to combine Bing cash-back and e-bay discounts. Anyway, I didn't use the Domino 500 much so I sold it about 1-1/2 years later. Recently, I was honored to build a crib for our first grandchild. Researching designs all of those slats, connecting bent lamination's, and various other joints steered me to look at the Domino XL. I purchased the Seneca adapter for smaller bits and their imperial thickness kit and couldn't be happier. I probably cut almost 200 mortises for this project alone. I even made a fixture to center the mortises in the slats. More importantly the project taught me the tool is very simple to use and adapt - just use it! The 700XL is larger than the 500 but I found it very easy to use.

Mike

[Greg Mann]

Dominos are just larger dowels. They may have larger gluing surface, but if you use more dowels, they are no better.

If this were true mortise and tenon joints would have probably never evolved. It has been easier to drill holes for at least a couple thousand years but m & t came about because it offer significantly more strength than dowels. A dowel only sees long grain for glue surface when inserted into end grain, which is why most dowel failures leave the dowel in the end grain with the failure on the other side of the joint where the dowel sees end grain and the glue fails. A domino, or a tenon, just sees so much more surface for glue to overcome the shortcomings of end grain. Also, if the domino or tenon can be oriented for it, one can accomplish long grain to long grain on one side and long grain/cross grain on the other.

[mreza Salav]

They are not talking about both ends. They are talking about making the hole wider then the domino. For clarification they are putting a 5mm x 15mm domino into a 5mm x18mm hole. I don't know the exact dimensions but it should get the picture across. Then the justification that the holes are on long grain only where it is not needed for strength, which was never mentioned before. Floating or true tendons are never always on long grain to long grain. A lot of the time it is end grain into song grain like a leg to an apron. I just built a bed and where the headboard met the post I put a row of 10 dowels. They lined up perfectly. I could have put 40 and the would have still have lined perfectly. No enlarging the holes. I didn't have to pay $900 to do it.

aprons and legs always have face grain to face grain surface (that's actually the biggest surface area).
And it was already mentioned you don't "have to" make the holes larger than needed. You can get absolutely tight fit if you want.
You don't need to buy domino, many people don't but don't trash the product for incorrect reasons.

[Biff Phillips]

Not to hijack this thread or badmouth the Domino, but this might help the OP in his decision. I hear the above statement in various forms a lot. It would seem to me that a sloppy fitting domino would defeat the purpose of a strong joint. I see tons of DIY slot mortise, horizontal router tables, Doweling jigs, Mortis pal, etc and never has anybody say they need a sloppy fit. Some people that make handmade mortis and tendons use block planes and chisels to get a perfect fit. I have the Jessem 8300 doweling jig and it is Deadly accurate. I can put 15 dowels in a board and they will line up exactly.

I thought of buying a Domino once but all of the "sloppy" comments made me pause. What I always get from these discussions is it is supper easy to make a sloppy joint. What else am I missing?

It's not a sloppy joint. If you are making a 6 mm domino, the 6mm width stays 6 mm.. The "long" part of the cut is cut a little bit wider so you have some adjustment room, but since the 6mm cut stays the same, you still get a strong joint.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Most of the strength of apron-to-leg M&T joints comes from the cheeks of the tenon. This is because this is the section of the tenon that intersects with the straight grain of the mortise.

The edge of the tenon intersects with end grain in the mortise. As we know, end grain does not glue well at all.

The problem with dowels is that they are round. The strongest part of the glue joint in a dowel is the apex of the dowel, where it touches long grain. Everywhere else, it is transitioning from long grain to edge grain. So the strongest part of the joint is very small.

A domino, or better yet, a traditional M&T joint, has way more face grain than an equivalent dowel, even if you drill lots of dowels next to each other.

And this is why having a mortise that is every so slightly wider than the tenon is not a problem- that area of the mortise is not strong anyway.

[Steve Milito]

Anyone use an aftermarket fence system for either domino?

[Darrin Davis]

Here's your answer for why: Quick & Quality

I have one and love it. A lot of people say "you can have it built quickly or you can have it built quality but not both". They may not be able to provide both but I can. The Domino makes the quick possible with a quality joint. I never use the oversize mortise option, they are easy to line up and make a tight fit. Highly recommended. Price SUCKS but the tool itself is hard to beat. Sure beats dowel pins. Oh, did I say I hate doing dowel pins?

[Chris Padilla]

Oh, cool...I get to wax poetic about my favorite tool in my garage-mah-hal!!

I have the smaller (original) Domino 500(insert letters). When I started using it, 3 items started to gather sawdust on 'em:

(1) Porter Cable Biscuit cutter (although I use this to reinforce miters for frames...FF biscuits)
(2) Powermatic mortise cutter
(3) Table Saw tenon jig

I haven't yet but selling all those items might get you half the money for a Domino kit.

Things got even better when Festool came out with the smaller 4 mm domino & cutter. I like those for plywood carcass building.

Cool things with the domino (and M&T in general) is the ability to construct your project and actually have it hold together solidly WITHOUT GLUE. There are many reasons that this is nice. Just recently I was putting together simple cabinet door frames. Some of the wood was different thickness for stiles and rails. NO problem...domino'ed every together referencing a side and then put it together and sent it through the drum sander to flush everything. Took it apart and then cut the grooves/dadoes for the panel insert on my router table flipping it for two passes to ensure a centered cut. That was pretty cool.

I domino cabinet carcasses together in various stages and use them to gauge other pieces of the carcass accurately. Anything I can do to avoid measuring, I try to do.

Cutting mortises is FAST and DUST FREE (already mentioned...thought I'd reiterate it).

The Domino has built-in reference points so that you can place it in the exact same spot each time. When I built my frames from above, I simply mark a little R in each of the 2 stiles and rails where they meet. I then reference the Domino using its reference knob and my stiles and rails are all flush fit to each other with little thinking.

From the bottom of the Domino to the center of the cutting bit is exactly 10.5 mm. That actually works out just fine in 3/4" material. It isn't exactly centered but it is close enough in my book. So I often use the Domino base instead of the fence and I just cut the mortises right on the table top.

I love the Domino. My go to tool for quite a bit!

[Cary Falk]

You don't need to buy domino, many people don't but don't trash the product for incorrect reasons.

I said in the beginning that I was trying to find a reason to buy on but comments about having to make oversized holes gave me pause. I have learned a lot from this thread. I don't think I have been persuaded to buy one yet(and I love to buy tools).

[johnny means]

Cary, I know exactly what they mean, I was an early adapter with the Domino. My point was that a little wiggle room for the joint parts does not equal sloppy. Trust me I've used every joining method out there extensively and dowels do not come anywhere near the speed, accuracy, and ease of the Domino. Unless, that is you happen to have a $900 doweling machine.

[Prashun Patel]

Whether or not the arguments are being heard or acknowledged, let's keep the emotion and panty talk out of the discussion.

I believe the prophet, Van Morrison was foreshadowing this discussion when once he crooned, nay, preached:

I said oh oh Domino
I said oh oh Domino, dig it
There's no need for argument
There's no argument at all

[mreza Salav]

I said in the beginning that I was trying to find a reason to buy on but comments about having to make oversized holes gave me pause. I have learned a lot from this thread. I don't think I have been persuaded to buy one yet(and I love to buy tools).

Fair enough, but it might be worth repeating (one last time), you don't have to make oversized holes. The ability to be able to make, if you want, is a bonus. That's the way I see it at least.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Whether or not the arguments are being heard or acknowledged, let's keep the emotion and panty talk out of the discussion.

I believe the prophet, Van Morrison was foreshadowing this discussion when he once he crooned, nay, preached:

I said oh oh Domino
I said oh oh Domino, dig it
There's no need for argument
There's no argument at all

Bahahahaha! Now that's a good one, I haven't laughed that hard on SMC since your yoga pants comparison.

[Chris Padilla]

It might be better to say over-WIDTH holes as the dominos are still tight on the cheek face of the floating tenon but thus allow some lateral adjustment in case you weren't dead nuts on with the line of mortises you just plunged. In my example above of cutting for a simple stile&rail frame, I keep the width tight as I'm only drilling for one M&T connection. The width adjustment comes into play when you want several M&T joints in a line. Usually, tight mortises are cut in one piece. In the mating piece, one of the end mortises is cut tight to ensure alignment/flushness and the rest will be a touch wide to make up for any misalignment. Several tight mortises in a line are prone to alignment errors so having the ability to easily/quickly adjust mortise widths is quite valuable.

[Ben Rivel]

I believe the prophet, Van Morrison was foreshadowing this discussion when he once he crooned, nay, preached:

I said oh oh Domino
I said oh oh Domino, dig it
There's no need for argument
There's no argument at all
LOL you are a funny guy!

[Terry Hatfield]

As long as we all agree. :D

[Jon Endres]

Whether or not the arguments are being heard or acknowledged......

They are - at least by me, the OP. I will say this - I'm leaning very heavily toward the purchase, knowing what kinds of projects I have forthcoming. If I were to find a spare $1000 in my pocket today, I would not be hesitating. The price is truly the sticking point. Plus, my only experience with M&T work is on a large scale, doing timber framing, so I am looking for a relatively painless solution.

I suppose I could set up a decent router jig to do loose tenon joinery, but I have to decide whether I want to spend the time putting jigs together (does the Leigh FMT do that?) and then making my own loose tenon stock, or just diving right in with the Domino.

[Tom Ewell]

The price is truly the sticking point. Plus, my only experience with M&T work is on a large scale, doing timber framing, so I am looking for a relatively painless solution. .
Hear ya Jon, tough decision for those still looking into it. For those who already have one it's a treat to use once you get going with it and yes, it does change the way you work with assemblies.

It is just hard to put just a dollar value on what it does and the way one works with it.... and given the alternative ways to do things makes it even harder.

Don't know if you've done the biscuit joiner thing but the process is basically the same except with much tighter tolerances and stronger 'biscuits' yielding a true joint.

I hate buyer's remorse as much as anyone, can honestly say I didn't have smidge of it with this tool.

[Brian Henderson]

As long as we all agree. :D

It doesn't matter if anyone agrees, that's the nice thing. If someone wants a tool, get it. If they don't, don't. Everyone wins.

[Terry Hatfield]

It doesn't matter if anyone agrees, that's the nice thing. If someone wants a tool, get it. If they don't, don't. Everyone wins.

I agree. :) I was just trying to be funny. Apparently I failed. :D

[Jon Endres]

Don't know if you've done the biscuit joiner thing but the process is basically the same except with much tighter tolerances and stronger 'biscuits' yielding a true joint.

I did. Had a Porter-Cable 557(?) and sold it. Along with about 10,000 biscuits. I found it to be nearly worthless.

[jack duren]

As mentioned a Domino is just a bigger dowel and still isn't a M&T. There used a lot in the industry for speed. But they DO NOT replace a M&T. If one thinks it does there still green in woodworking. Yes I still use dowels in preference over Domino's sometimes....

[johnny means]

As mentioned a Domino is just a bigger dowel and still isn't a M&T. There used a lot in the industry for speed. But they DO NOT replace a M&T. If one thinks it does there still green in woodworking. Yes I still use dowels in preference over Domino's sometimes....

Actually, a tenon is precisely what a Domino is, and a mortise is precisely what the Domino machine cuts. And in my professional opinion, they do replace the traditional technique. Explain to us why they wouldn't.

[Jebediah Eckert]

As mentioned a Domino is just a bigger dowel and still isn't a M&T. There used a lot in the industry for speed. But they DO NOT replace a M&T. If one thinks it does there still green in woodworking. Yes I still use dowels in preference over Domino's sometimes....

Im curious also, what do you mean exactly? The part about it not replacing a MT JOINT. I don't own a Domino, don't really have an opinion, and have never used one but am interested in the process. I'm certainly not arguing, I just don't know. I understand the difference between a loose tenon and a traditional but it seems they do the same thing, unless you start getting into through tenons etc...

[Dave Zellers]

I did. Had a Porter-Cable 557(?) and sold it. Along with about 10,000 biscuits. I found it to be nearly worthless.
Well to be fair, it was never designed to be a substitute for M&T, while a Domino IS intended as a substitute for M&T.

IMO, there is no better way to attach face frames to a cabinet than with biscuits, as well as a number of other uses.

If you want to use M&T joinery without doing it the traditional way, a Domino seems like a heck of a tool. Technically I guess it is M&M joinery. I know- loose tenon.

If you think you will use it a lot and you don't mind the cost (which includes buying the tenons), go for it.

[jack duren]

Actually, a tenon is precisely what a Domino is, and a mortise is precisely what the Domino machine cuts. And in my professional opinion, they do replace the traditional technique. Explain to us why they wouldn't.

Built 700 bar stools for Chill's using Domino's. All chairs were replaced with additional blocking in 2015 as the Domino's failed. Roughly 100,000 dollar lose between replacement and overtime. Because we have a contract and a warranty and Chill's #1 supplier and that's business. I've never seen a correct M&T fail in a chair build when done correctly.

By the way as a profession furniture maker that's a fact not an opinion...Jack Duren

[jack duren]

Im curious also, what do you mean exactly? The part about it not replacing a MT JOINT. I don't own a Domino, don't really have an opinion, and have never used one but am interested in the process. I'm certainly not arguing, I just don't know. I understand the difference between a loose tenon and a traditional but it seems they do the same thing, unless you start getting into through tenons etc...


The M&T has one point of failure the Domino has two. Take a Domino, place in into the slot and smack it both ways and it isn't snug anymore. This is helpful when the alignment is off and needs the glue to fill the void.

[Jebediah Eckert]

Got it, thanks. Makes sense.

[Dave Zellers]

Built 700 bar stools for Chill's using Domino's. All chairs were replaced with additional blocking in 2015 as the Domino's failed.
The Chill's contract is seriously cool, the Domino failures seriously suck. And there is serious information here.

[jack duren]

The Chill's contract is seriously cool, the Domino failures seriously suck. And there is serious information here.

I want to make sure that everyone knows that I'm not trying to talk anyone out of the purchase of a Domino. It's a great tool but shouldn't be used in every case of construction. The price is firm on the tool and there is no better deals to the industry than there is to the hobby woodworker. As far as Festool is concerned at the moment we are all equals.

[David T gray]

Built 700 bar stools for Chill's using Domino's. All chairs were replaced with additional blocking in 2015 as the Domino's failed. Roughly 100,000 dollar lose between replacement and overtime. Because we have a contract and a warranty and Chill's #1 supplier and that's business. I've never seen a correct M&T fail in a chair build when done correctly.

By the way as a profession furniture maker that's a fact not an opinion...Jack Duren

as a hobbyist there is no way in hell i would build a commercial bar stool with dominos. when i build a chair i use the strongest joint possible not the fastest. dont blame the domino for user error.

[Prashun Patel]

Wow! What size dominos were used, jack? I would love to see how the stools were originally constructed. I use a lot of dominos and would like to learn so i can use them properly and appropriately.

[mreza Salav]

I too have a difficult time understanding why a properly sized loose tenon vs the same size M&T would make much of a difference. If the loose tenon is to fail (and hence the glue is to fail) so will the M&T. Everything I've seen indicates the strength of a true M&T vs a loose tenon of the same size shouldn't be significantly more.
I too am interested to know the size and application the domino was used. Chairs joints (in particular back) are among the most stressed joints.

[Dan Masshardt]

One thing with domino (or any floating tenon) is you have to get good glue coverage on both sides obviously vs having only one point of connection to get right with the traditional joint.

There is a YouTube video of a guy doing a domino glue test. Putting glue spread in the hole and and on the domino added significant strength vs just one surface.

It would be interesting to see where a domino joint failed - glue let go or tenon broke.

[Dan Friedrichs]

The M&T has one point of failure the Domino has two. Take a Domino, place in into the slot and smack it both ways and it isn't snug anymore. This is helpful when the alignment is off and needs the glue to fill the void.

I'm also very curious about the failures. For a good long grain-to-long grain glue joint, though, it's generally accepted that the glue joint is stronger than the wood, itself. So I agree that an unglued loose tenon is weaker than an unglued traditional M&T (for the reason you stated), but once you get glue on it, isn't the loose tenon joint....stronger?

[Alan Heffernan]

Pros: Fast, efficient, accurate, & strong
Cons: Expensive

I have one and would not be without it. I use it on a multifunction table and it is a very high quality tool. I would never use biscuits or dowels again. Kreg - maybe but way less than the past.

[Tom Ewell]

I did. Had a Porter-Cable 557(?) and sold it. Along with about 10,000 biscuits. I found it to be nearly worthless.
I was indicating the similar process of using the machine not the end results, if you found the biscuit joiner worthless in terms of how to use it then the Domino might not be for you after all.
I still occasionally use the PC and the DeWalt joiners for alignment purposes in construction and maybe smaller panel glue ups, attaching FF's and the like, I use the domino for joinery.
Why on earth did you have 10,000 biscuits.?..... just curious.

[Dave Zellers]

The M&T has one point of failure the Domino has two.

I think this is the point of focus. And it is multiplied in a production environment vs a small shop.

[Jon Endres]

Why on earth did you have 10,000 biscuits.?..... just curious.

I bought an assortment when I got the machine, then I bought the FF cutter and another box of biscuits....then I picked up another box at a tag sale, etc. I had three full boxes of biscuits plus a few more of those plastic cylinders full. I was gonna do EVERYTHING with biscuits until I realized how tedious the process was, started reading horror stories about biscuit locations telegraphing through sheet goods and table tops, and just kind of set the whole mess aside for a time.

Then I discovered pocket hole joinery and that was the end of my biscuit joiner and biscuits. I built every cabinet in my house with pocket hole screws and that worked for me.

[glenn bradley]

I just love Festool threads; they go on and on :D.

[Richard Shaefer]

One thing with domino (or any floating tenon) is you have to get good glue coverage on both sides obviously vs having only one point of connection to get right with the traditional joint.

There is a YouTube video of a guy doing a domino glue test. Putting glue spread in the hole and and on the domino added significant strength vs just one surface.

It would be interesting to see where a domino joint failed - glue let go or tenon broke.

I've tested a few Domino joints, er.. 'destructively' and ina properly made joint, the host wood fails before the glue or the domino tenon. Every time. In every species.

[Tom Ewell]

I bought an assortment when I got the machine, then I bought the FF cutter and another box of biscuits....then I picked up another box at a tag sale, etc. I had three full boxes of biscuits plus a few more of those plastic cylinders full. I was gonna do EVERYTHING with biscuits until I realized how tedious the process was, started reading horror stories about biscuit locations telegraphing through sheet goods and table tops, and just kind of set the whole mess aside for a time.

Then I discovered pocket hole joinery and that was the end of my biscuit joiner and biscuits. I built every cabinet in my house with pocket hole screws and that worked for me.

Ah, I see. I also have the ff cutter for the PC but I tend to get the biscuits as I need them. Can't speak to the telegraphing problem, have not experienced it.

I will admit that the Domino can be just as tedious as a biscuit joiner, the repetitive lining up, the plunge action to bore etc. but the only way I see replacing the thing would be to invest in a stationary machine that requires an initial setup and does the same repetitive action over and over. Kinda like the difference between using a Kreg pocket jig vs a Foreman or bigger machines.

[Chris Padilla]

The M&T has one point of failure the Domino has two. Take a Domino, place in into the slot and smack it both ways and it isn't snug anymore. This is helpful when the alignment is off and needs the glue to fill the void.

Everything I've seen and read says that our modern glues are stronger than the wood itself. From that information, I would think the Domino (floating tenon) to be STRONGER than a traditional M&T (integral tenon) joint because it has more glue involved. Now there certainly is something to be said about how the two systems are used and how they are stressed perhaps. A floating tenon might have a slight disadvantage than an integral in that the floaters don't have their end-grain connected to anything whereas the integral has one 'end' of its tenon connected. In fact, one half of the entire integral tenon is connected whereas a floater might not have its smaller long-grain sides even touching very well (in the case of a wider mortise to aid in alignment issues). So while floating and integral do the same thing, they aren't EXACTLY the same...there are some minor differences at least when comparing how the entire tenon is 'connected' in one of the mating pieces.

[johnny means]

Built 700 bar stools for Chill's using Domino's. All chairs were replaced with additional blocking in 2015 as the Domino's failed. Roughly 100,000 dollar lose between replacement and overtime. Because we have a contract and a warranty and Chill's #1 supplier and that's business. I've never seen a correct M&T fail in a chair build when done correctly.

By the way as a profession furniture maker that's a fact not an opinion...Jack Duren

If you built 700 barstools with Dominos and a substantial number of them failed, I can guarantee you that Dominos nor the Domino system were the problem. I've repaired every joint out there, and can guarantee you that they all can fail when done poorly.

[lowell holmes]

You should get one because you want it.:)

[Cary Falk]

You should get one because you want it.:)

That is the best answer so far!!!!!

[Terry Hatfield]

You should get one because you want it.:)

The correct answer has been rendered. Thread closed. Have a nice day.

[jack duren]

If you built 700 barstools with Dominos and a substantial number of them failed, I can guarantee you that Dominos nor the Domino system were the problem. I've repaired every joint out there, and can guarantee you that they all can fail when done poorly.



"I can guarantee you that Dominos nor the Domino system were the problem"

You can't guarantee anything.

[Ben Rivel]

"I can guarantee you that Dominos nor the Domino system were the problem"

You can't guarantee anything.
lol Thats what I was thinking too!

[Dave Zellers]

Me too.

+Silly 10 character requirement.

[Ray Newman]

"I just love Festool threads; they go on and on :D."
--Glenn Bradley

Yup. Almost as interesting as Saw Stop threads!

[Dan Masshardt]

The first page or so actual had some really pertinent info for the OP

Now we're just beating the dead horse. Some of the discussion is interesting and thought provoking though.

[Dan Wiese]

Briefly, from a hobbyist viewpoint, the 500 and 700 made me a much better woodworker. Both are incredible tools that do what I would never learned to do as a hobbyist. I've never done a mortise and tenon joint and probably won't need to with these tools at hand. After purchasing the 700 I seldom use the 500. The 700 is heavy but very precise and has excellent setting features that are great to use. I get more accurate placement using the 700. I have read and seen videos of real woodworkers who use these tools to their full potential and I can relate to their love for the tools. If you get either of these tools I don't believe you could go wrong. My preference though is the larger 700.

[mreza Salav]

"I can guarantee you that Dominos nor the Domino system were the problem"

You can't guarantee anything.

So any chance in sharing some more info about the joint and failure? what was the application? what size dominos and how many?
And what was the failure (tenon broke, glue let go, etc)?

[Dave Zellers]

I would love to hear this as well, and I don't think a thread gently evolving away from the original intent is a bad thing.

One thought that I would add re the difference between traditional M&T and the Domino would be the percentage thickness of a tenon to it's host.

If you cut a 1/2" tenon on the end of a 3/4" board, you have a 1/8" shoulder to cover the mortise and tremendous strength from that 1/2" tenon.

But if you cut a 1/2" mortise into the end of a 3/4" board for a Domino loose tenon, there is no way that 1/8" remaining wood housing the loose tenon would be as strong as the traditional integrated tenon.

[Chris Padilla]

Hi Dave,

Why is that? I'm not sure I follow the point you are trying to make between the integral and loose tenon in your scenario. You are still gluing in a tenon into the mortise and glue is stronger than the wood. Now I'm assuming you cut a tight mortise such that the domino actually needs hammered into the mortise. I did post up above (#85) that integral and loose tenons aren't EXACTLY the same and that mostly resides in the integral tenon being fully and completely 'buried' or 'one' with its 'mortise'. However, we now have the 'glue factor' for the floating tenon. The glue may or may not be the key difference in determining which might be stronger. One thing I feel confident of, I'm pretty sure either system is plenty strong for its application such that either system could be employed.

[mreza Salav]

Chris, I am guessing he is talking about the scenario where the piece into which the mortise is cut is wider/larger than 3/4". So you can comfortably cut a 1/2" thick mortise without issue and you can get a 1/2" tenon on the 3/4" thick piece. But to use a loose tenon in this scenario you are limited to about 1/4"-5/16" loose tenon.

[Dave Zellers]

Hi back Chris, I hope I can answer this, perhaps we will just disagree.

An integral tenon, with an unbroken connection to the actual structural member, will always be stronger than an inserted loose tenon that has no end grain connection to the original grain of the piece in question.

The strength of today's glues being stronger than the wood is a given. When you use a Domino as opposed to a traditional M&T, you are cutting the tenon at it's strongest point- it's natural connection to the piece itself.

A Domino is a fabulous machine. But it can not replace a traditional M&T in every instance. Not by a long shot.

NOTHING will ever replace a traditional M&T.

But if I had the money to spare, I would already have a Domino- it seems awesome. I would use it where it was appropriate just as I use my Dewalt biscuit joiner where it is appropriate.

But I would never in a million years use a Domino to join a table skirt to a leg.

Take my previous example to the extreme and leave only 1/16" (or less!) on the sides of the Domino mortise. Now would you trust it? You could if it was a traditional tenon. It would be even stronger.

[Dave Zellers]

Chris, I am guessing he is talking about the scenario where the piece into which the mortise is cut is wider/larger than 3/4". So you can comfortably cut a 1/2" thick mortise without issue and you can get a 1/2" tenon on the 3/4" thick piece. But to use a loose tenon in this scenario you are limited to about 1/4"-5/16" loose tenon.
Yes, because as you imply, you need to rely on enough meat on the sides to provide the strength for the joint.

An integral tenon is a part of the piece itself. Which allows you to make the tenon thicker, which since it IS the piece being joined, increases the strength dramatically.

With a traditional M&T, the smaller the cheeks, the stronger the joint. Within the confines of reason. :D

[Gregory Stahl]

Yes, because as you imply, you need to rely on enough meat on the sides to provide the strength for the joint.

An integral tenon is a part of the piece itself. Which allows you to make the tenon thicker, which since it IS the piece being joined, increases the strength dramatically.

With a traditional M&T, the smaller the cheeks, the stronger the joint. Within the confines of reason. :D

This may apply when then mortise is in a piece of stock that is larger than the tenon stock; however, most of the time I use my Domino, I am joining stock of the same size or thickness. In this instance, face frames for example, just choose a domino size that gives you plenty of wall thickness. There are more than enough thicknesses to choose from.

[Tom Ewell]

Gonna help a buddy on his rural mailbox post this weekend. The design calls for a single tenon cut on the cross piece for insertion through a mortise on the post, don't think I can use the Domino for this one. Gotta know it's limitations I suppose.

[Chris Padilla]

Absolutely. There will be size restrictions for the Domino. I'm guessing the post is 4x4 nominal (3.5 x 3.5).

[Prashun Patel]

The DF700 can make a mortise that is max 70mm (2.75") deep If you need it deeper, then yes, better get the shovel out.

On a single pass, the DF700 can cut max 14mm (0.5" thick") and about 30mm (~1 1/8" wide). Again, here's the genius of the machine. You can use the depth stops on the fence height to make a mortise as thick as you want. You can offset the depth so you are using multiple tenons, or you can overlap the holes to make a single thick tenon. of course, you'll need to clean up the corners; but it can be done.

You can use the index pins on the face of the DF700 to drill overlapping mortises to make them wider also. So, you really can drill a mortise as thick or wide as you want. You just can't make it any deeper than 2.75".

Granted, making wider or thicker mortises (I do both all the time) requires you to make your own tenon stock and to pare down the side walls (or make beaded tenons). Before anyone chirps that 'this means the domino isn't easier than other mortising machines', yes it is. The indexing pins and depth stops make doing the widening holes easy. Also, unlike mortising and dowel jigs, the cutting action and ergonomics of the domino allow you to drill those holes without having to clamp; As long as you go slow, even offset holes will drill straight and true without the tool bucking.

For any of you out there who wish to make your own tenon stock, if you have a good smoothing plane, then I advise making a planing stop. You can get tenons that fit perfectly in any width or thickness mortise.

[Chris Padilla]

Another point in favor of floating tenons: Sometimes it is nice not having to worry about the extra material needed for integral tenons.

When I was making the doors for my bathroom cabinet, I cut the stiles to size by holding them in the opening and marking there (no tape measure). Then I cut the rails by holding the stiles in place and marking the rails. Again, no tape measure.

I heard that the main impetus behind the DF700's design was that door guys wanted a bigger Domino. I haven't run into a need for such a large Domino (yet) but I'm sure it is just as nice and user-friendly as its smaller cousin, the 500. From the guys I've read about who have used both, most would pick the 700 over the 500 if they had to pick.

[mreza Salav]

Chris, I have the 500 and if I could trade it up for 700 would do in a heartbeat.

[Chris Padilla]

Mreza, I think we've both had our 500s for a while. Mine must be around 10ish years old although I don't recall exactly when I got it but I know it was pretty newly introduced at the time. I'm 'surviving' fine with the 500 thus far.... :p

[Patrick Irish]

I dont build to sell YET. Justifying spending $1,000 is a lot when other hobbies like shooting/reloading/girlfriend get in they way. I found an Domino 700 locally used with tenons for $900, tempting. I like that it can make mortises in the middle of a 1x6 or other panels where a Leigh FMT cannot do that. Of course a plunge router can with measuring or making a template.

Building a shop jig or a Pantorouter would be sweet. A Pantorouter is available in aluminum now with XYZ movement for around $1,300 and can do both mortises and tenons, not just loose tenons. Seems it could do more than a Domino, maybe just not as quick BUT it can make longer mortises, multiple mortises etc.

Before I spend $$ on Domino I think I need to upgrade table saws, that tool I'd use more. I'm going to learn plunge router mortise and tenon technique before I determine I NEED a domino.

[jack duren]

I continue to hear that the glue is stronger than the wood itself. Got yer attention now? Lets use this as a foundation as a part of the glue joint failure. If the loose tenon is Beech and the chair is Ash and glued properly as the has been mentioned where do you think the failure point will be in this bar stool?

#1 the Ash chair parts
#2 The glue(Titebond #1)
#3 the Beech tenon

With what we already have discussed and what we should already know, Where is the possible failure? Its easy to figure out...

As many would think or like to believe, it's not going to be the answer for every stressed joint. In my opinion as the is not "FACT" it probably started out as a new futuristic way to dowel and a smarty pants got an ideal to make it wobble and came forth the Domino. Who knows/...........

[Peter Aeschliman]

I continue to hear that the glue is stronger than the wood itself. Got yer attention now? Lets use this as a foundation as a part of the glue joint failure. If the loose tenon is Beech and the chair is Ash and glued properly as the has been mentioned where do you think the failure point will be in this bar stool?

#1 the Ash chair parts
#2 The glue(Titebond #1)
#3 the Beech tenon

With what we already have discussed and what we should already know, Where is the possible failure? Its easy to figure out...

As many would think or like to believe, it's not going to be the answer for every stressed joint. In my opinion as the is not "FACT" it probably started out as a new futuristic way to dowel and a smarty pants got an ideal to make it wobble and came forth the Domino. Who knows/...........

Dude, you left us hanging! haha

I know you said it's easy to figure out... your condescension is not lost on me, but I'd still like to understand what happened. :)

[jack duren]

The stretcher/cross member almost always had the loose tenon still attached/in place and wood (Beech) fragments of the tenon still left in the mortise of the leg. Between the Ash and the beech the Beech gave first or as stated almost every time.

Now if you had an ash tenon I think the percentages would be different and the failures less.

[Peter Aeschliman]

The stretcher/cross member almost always had the loose tenon still attached/in place and wood (Beech) fragments of the tenon still left in the mortise of the leg. Between the Ash and the beech the Beech gave first or as stated almost every time.

Now if you had an ash tenon I think the percentages would be different and the failures less.

Got it. Very helpful and informative. I've read a lot about domino failures, and the commonality seems to be a combination of your experience and and the belief that the impressions on the store bought tenons reduce the contact area of the joint too much.

Might be the same issue... that the tresses get focused on the areas where the glue HAS bonded, which is too much for the beech tenons to handle.

Lesson to me is to make my own dominoes (for the machine I don't yet own).

[jack duren]

It is a great tool but it has a variety of problems on the production end of use. Domino tenon being one in stressful applications. But again having one for the many applications it can be used for makes it a pleasure to own and worth the money.