Hobbyist's questions

[Irvin Gomez]

Hello, everyone!

First post here.

Have some (little) experience working with wood as a hobby exclusively. A 'weekend warrior' wannabe. So, my question is posed within that context: what would my best option be for a good shop vac? I spend 3/4 hours once a week doing some basic stuff with my limited toolset: Makita 1.25 router, Makita circular saw with rail, Dowelmax / Kreg pockethole jigs and a crappy Dewalt sander that i plan on replacing when I get some funds. Projects are small things I can use throughout my apartment: a rack for my recording equipment, a small coffee table, etc.

I have done a lot of reading / searching, but not having professional experience, I have no idea if a Festool/Fein/Makita/Bosch/etc. $500+ vac would be overkill and I could do well with a simple Ridgid plus a hepa filter and a couple of adapters. I'm torn, because money matters to me, but I don't want to buy stuff that I will have to replace in the future. I have made enough of those mistakes! So far, I have managed with a very old Sears vac, but I would like to improve my dust collection methods (afraid of all the things I've read about fine dust getting in the lungs).

All opinions welcome and gratefully accepted! Shoot!

[Prashun Patel]

For those basic tools, a Ridgid is a fine shopvac. You should research "Dust Deputy" because adding that preseparator can keep your filter from clogging prematurely.

Once you get into bigger stationary tools like a bandsaw, tablesaw, jointer, planer, you can think about a 4" dust collector.

Also, get yourself a good respirator. I am partial to the 3m half mask: it's inexpensive, fits well, and has replaceable, available filters.

Last,
WELCOME TO THE CREEK!!! Roll up your cuffs and wade in. The water's nice.

[Brian Kent]

This one: https://www.ridgid.com/us/en/14-gallon-high-performance-wet-dry-vac
I got this Rigid 1450 at Home Depot for $99. I have 2 Rigid shop vacs - one smaller one from 10 years back and the 1450. The older smaller one kills my ears. The Rigid 1450 doesn't bother me at all. I think this is the only Rigid model that has the "Scroll Noise Reduction" and the word "professional" in the Home Depot name. Huge difference.

I like quiet, smooth tools. I want to get a second one to replace the old one, hooked up to the combo sander.

My full dust collection:
Delta 50-760 hooked up to the big tools.
Jet air filter for the room.
Shop vac on Combo Sander.
Box fan with heater filter behind the lathe head.
3M Half-mask with P100 filters.
Jacket worn in the shop to keep dust off of my clothes.
I take this seriously, and like the Rigid 1450 where is does the job.

[Brian Kent]

For those basic tools, a Ridgid is a fine shopvac. You should research "Dust Deputy" because adding that preseparator can keep your filter from clogging prematurely.

Once you get into bigger stationary tools like a bandsaw, tablesaw, jointer, planer, you can think about a 4" dust collector.

Also, get yourself a good respirator. I am partial to the 3m half mask: it's inexpensive, fits well, and has replaceable, available filters.

Last,
WELCOME TO THE CREEK!!! Roll up your cuffs and wade in. The water's nice.

And furthermore, I always agree with Prashun Patel. :)

[Mike Henderson]

Get a Ridgid. If you shop for them at Home Depot, they will have shelf labels that tell you how much suction and noise each has. Definitely get a quiet one.

Mike

[Mike Ontko]

Hi Irvin, welcome to the Creek!

You heard it from Prashun first--for the tools you're working with currently, a plain old shop vacuum (Rigid is sold at the "orange store") should do just fine. Even if you do eventually move up to a full dust collection system, you'll still keep and use a shop vacuum for all those things that a dust collector doesn't connect to. I have a 14 gallon Rigid that sits like a loyal pup next to my workbench. You can use the HEPA filter bags to help protect the internal filter that comes with the unit, but you'll eventually come to find that replacing those bags can get to be a pain in the wallet. This is where the Dust Deputy comes in--it's a mini-funnel separator, like the Cyclone, that separates all but the finest particulates before they reach the inside of your vacuum. To add it to your vacuum, you'll also need to get a 5 gallon bucket that you can either attach to your current vacuum, or place on a rolling caddy. There are lots of examples and plans out there on the Interweb to give you ideas on how to go about that.

[Ken Kortge]

Be a bit cautious of putting both the vacuum and a power tool on the same electrical circuit. The Rigid 1450 (I have one also) is 11 Amps. If you add a 15 Amp portable table saw, the combined 26 Amps may pop a 15 or 20 Amp circuit breaker ... especially during motor startup.

I've been meaning to use my ammeter to measure the actual Amperage of both the vacuum and saw during use, but it hasn't happened yet.

[Irvin Gomez]

Thanks, everyone, for the helpful replies.

[Doug Garson]

An option to the Dust Deputy is a shop made Thien baffle. I have no experience with the Dust Deputy so I can't compare them but I have Thien baffles on my Ridged shop vac and Delta 1 hp dust collector and the bucket under the Thien baffle fills up long before there is significant material in the shop vac or dc. The inventor of the Thien baffle is Phil Thien a member here. Lot's of videos around on how to build one.

[Art Mann]

I am coming late to the party but I just want to add my endorsement of the Ridgid vac Brian Kent owns. I own the same one and the only complaint I have is it is a little loud. I have bought a Dust Deputy for it but haven't hooked it up yet. Also, I want to add that I bought the Rockler super flexible hose. It comes with adapters so you can hook it up to almost any hand held power tool with a dust port. It is much easier to use than the stiff plastic hose that comes with the Ridgid.

[Frank Pratt]

The dust deputy is amazing. Only the very finest dust gets past it to the vacuum. Performs better than advertised.

[Prashun Patel]

"Performs better than advertised."

(dumb, ironic joke alert): not any more.

[Jeffrey Martel]

Only advise I can offer is that if you put panty hose around the shop vac's filter, it will help prevent it from getting clogged with shavings/dust. A Dust Deputy will take a lot of stuff away from the vac, but things like plane shavings still get through and like to stick to the filter. Use a pre-filter of pantyhose or similar fabric and they won't stick as easily. Filter will last longer, too.

[Prashun Patel]

That is great advice. Thanks. I will do that!!!

[Daniel O'Neill]

Also, get yourself a good respirator. I am partial to the 3m half mask: it's inexpensive, fits well, and has replaceable, available filters.

+1
I got this (http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MCUT86?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00)respirator and it works great! Near me the 4 pack of cartridges are cheaper at HD

Welcome

[Mike Henderson]

Be a bit cautious of putting both the vacuum and a power tool on the same electrical circuit. The Rigid 1450 (I have one also) is 11 Amps. If you add a 15 Amp portable table saw, the combined 26 Amps may pop a 15 or 20 Amp circuit breaker ... especially during motor startup.

I've been meaning to use my ammeter to measure the actual Amperage of both the vacuum and saw during use, but it hasn't happened yet.
Good point. I have my Festool Kapex and a Ridgid vac on the same circuit. The Kapex can draw up to 13 amps and I don't know what the vac takes, but I never had any problems in use. I'm on a 20 amp breaker. I imagine the Kapex only takes 13 amps under max load.

Mike

[Kyle Iwamoto]

+whatever on the Dust Deputy. Get the "kit", it comes with the hose and TWO buckets. Toss out the wheels. They give you 3 for some unknown reason. Guarenteed to tip over. I put a dive weight (diving days are long gone) in it and that keeps it upright.
Ridgid vac, get the model that can accept the CleanStream HEPA filter. Available in the same Orange Giant. Not all of them can accept the HEPA. That CleanStream works well, and is washable. I've had mine for many years. It's expensive, but cheaper than replacing those paper filters every 3 months or so. Well, actually, if you get the DD, you don't really need the CleanStream unless you also want the HEPA filtration.

[Jim Dwight]

If you have a vacuum of any kind, I would first see if a HEPA filter is available for it. I added a HEPA to my little Rigid pretty inexpensively. You might not want to put the money into a vacuum you are not sure of but it would be interesting to know how much money it would take. The same filter might also be usable on other shop vacuums if you upgrade.

I would then, regardless, build the little cart Woodsmith offers plans for. I found them for free over the net. I didn't build exactly their design but copied key elements. One thing I changed is I used 2 inch PVC to connect the shop vacuum and cyclone. I had to use a heat gun to form it to fit at both ends but doing this makes the unit more compact and lowers losses (flex hoses cut airflow a lot). I use a Bosch 5M hose to connect to my track saw, CMS, and sanders (DeWalt) and the 2.5 inch hose it came with to connect to my Ryobi BT3100 table saw (nice accurate inexpensive saw) and for floor sweeping. I also added a little auto-on switch to it that claims to manage the current so you can have the vacuum and tool on the same circuit. The Ryobi is rated to draw 15A and I think my Rigid is a little over 6 amps. On a really deep cut I tripped the breaker after the cut was done but otherwise having both on the same circuit has worked fine. I have a second circuit in the shop in case I need to forgo the auto on and plug the vacuum into that.

I also don't mind that my shop vacuum is somewhat loud. I wear ear muffs in the shop for the tools. Once I have them on, the noise of the shop vacuum is not loud at all.

At around 6 amps my shop vacuum is pretty small but it works fine for what I do with it. If it ever breaks I will probably get a bigger one but probably not an expensive Fein or Festool. I don't see the point. If it sucks, how much difference can there be? For the sanders I need less, not more, airflow. I plan to try my speed control for an old router next time I use a sander. I think it will work to allow me to vary airflow on the shop vacuum. I haven't tried the little shop vac on my 10 inch planner yet but it may be a little small for that. A bigger one might be better. But I use the other tools more than the planner and it isn't a huge issue to sweep up for that one tool.

A key advantage of the dust deputy is the avoidance of filter cleaning. I finally had to clean my HEPA filter but I've emptied the drywall bucket under the DD around 10 times. I waited too long the last time and let the dust back up into the cyclone or I still might not have had to clean it. Almost nothing was in the shop vacuum. I've used a thein baffle before and it doesn't do anywhere near as well with fine dust so filter cleaning is about the same. DD definitely worth it in my book. I would take an inexpensive shop vacuum with a DD any day over a fancy shop vacuum. I want to pick up dust and want to spend a minimum of time and money doing it. Expensive vacuums mean expensive bags to change. Their auto-on feature is nice but can be duplicated for about $40. An inexpensive vacuum is still cheaper.

[John TenEyck]

My advise is to get the Ridgid or something similar and also not to anguish too much about dust. You are a hobbiest working at it 3 or 4 hours a week. I don't mean to make light of the potential health concerns of fine particles, wood or otherwise, but your exposure is short term and intermittent. I worked in an industry with a air borne particle issue. The potential risk is related to Dose (how much), Dimension (how fine) and Duration (and for how long). Of course wearing a respirator is wise, especially when running your router where you will increase the short term Dose. It also is wise to not smoke. Far worse than fine dust and really bad when combined.

John

[Larry Browning]

Get you one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035YGLZG?keywords=shop%20vac%20switch&qid=1453502921&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2


I have one and really like it for convenience and also to stagger your tool startup.
(http://www.amazon.com/DGC-PRODUCTS-IS110M-i-Socket-Autoswitch/dp/B005ELWUWG/ref=pd_sim_263_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=51Q7Q9nHHhL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=10J92J0HFTGRYGM04MBR)

[Mike Henderson]

Get you one of these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035YGLZG?keywords=shop%20vac%20switch&qid=1453502921&ref_=sr_1_2&sr=8-2


I have one and really like it for convenience and also to stagger your tool startup.
(http://www.amazon.com/DGC-PRODUCTS-IS110M-i-Socket-Autoswitch/dp/B005ELWUWG/ref=pd_sim_263_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=51Q7Q9nHHhL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=10J92J0HFTGRYGM04MBR)

+1 Good product. I have both of those. Get the first one Larry pointed to. Bit more expensive but much more flexible.

Mike

[M Toupin]

my limited toolset: Makita 1.25 router, Makita circular saw with rail, Dowelmax / Kreg pockethole jigs and a crappy Dewalt sander

Seriously? did anyone actually read the OP's question? All this talk about dust collectors, cyclones etc is ridiculous.

Ivan, with the tools you have, router, circular saw and sander, all have poor at best dust collection. The Festool stuff has much better dust collection but are expensive. If you're just starting out and don't know if you're going to stick with WW then you'll have to decide if that's the right path for you. If the shopvac you have now works then a new one isn't really going to improve your current situation as the tools aren't designed for good dust collection.

So unless you're ready to upgrade all your tools you'd be better off buying a good quality respirator.

Mike

[Irvin Gomez]

Seriously? did anyone actually read the OP's question? All this talk about dust collectors, cyclones etc is ridiculous.

Ivan, with the tools you have, router, circular saw and sander, all have poor at best dust collection. The Festool stuff has much better dust collection but are expensive. If you're just starting out and don't know if you're going to stick with WW then you'll have to decide if that's the right path for you. If the shopvac you have now works then a new one isn't really going to improve your current situation as the tools aren't designed for good dust collection.

So unless you're ready to upgrade all your tools you'd be better off buying a good quality respirator.

Mike

Good points (and, once again, thanks to all offering advice - it's much appreciated). The sander is the worst and I'm seriously considering a replacement, but it's hard to justify the cost of a top unit like Festool or Mirka. The Makita router (rt0701cxt) and saw (sp6000j1) have fairly decent dust collection.

Your post and the post of others recommending the Ridgid 1450 vac had me thinking that perhaps the best course of action is to get equipment with good dust collection combined with a so-so vac instead of getting a top-quality vac combined with equipment without good dust collection.

Is that correct?

[Bill Ryall]

+1 on the Ridgid vac. I used one exclusively for years and still use one for dust collection for sanders and smaller handheld tools.

HEPA filter, and I would strongly recommend the bags they make for inside the vac cannister. They do cost a bit- $18 for 2 iirc, but they last a long time and prevent the filter from clogging, so the first set of bags pays for itself in not having to replace clogged filters. Also makes emptying the vac much faster and easier.

[scott spencer]

I've had one of the bigger Ridgid shop vacs with the detachable blower for over 15 years. I think its a WD1660 or WD1665 (has a super inflated HP rating of something like 6-1/4hp). It's been a beast....lots of suction and won't quit. It's kinda loud but the optional muffler helps. I haven't used a ton of other shop vacs, but this one sucks circles around most that I have used, and I've never regretted owning it. I use this in conjunction with a decent Grizzly canister dust collection system that removes the bulk of the chips and dust from the main tools. I use the shop vac for the mess from handtools, stuff the DC doesn't get, and general shop and car cleaning.

http://www.flowperformance.com/images/ridgid-WD1665.gif

[Bob Grier]

For 2 years I have used the 6 gal Shop Vac from Lowes for small tools and vacuuming the floor. I use internal bags, either the fine filter yellow bag or the standard white bag in addition to the barrel shaped pleated filter that came with it. Cost was around $35 on sale. They are normally closer to $50. I buy bags on line. No matter which vacuum you get, I suggest, for convenience sake, you use bags inside it. A lot of people suggest the Rigid. Due to all the recommendations for it, I would look into that instead of the Shop Vac that I have. It must be worth the extra money. By the way, I run my Festool track saw on the Shop Vac and it works very good. I use the little shop vac a lot. That is why I like it. Easy to move around when vacuuming and easy to lift over obstacles with one hand if necessary. I do have a 4" stationary system and separator for big tools and and air cleaner too. Prior to the little vac, I had a larger Shop Vac and found it took up too much space and the larger hose was more cumbersome.

[Mark W Pugh]

I have a Rigid vacuum and the DD. I've used the set up for a couple of years and I have not had to clean my filter in vacuum.

I use the set-up mainly for my track saw system, with a dust collection port on my circular saw, Dewalt ROS, and my Kreg jig. Of course the set up does not suck up every particle, but it sure cuts down on the mess A LOT. I think if your looking for an absolute particle free environment, you're going to have to go expensive.

So, entry level, I would recommend a set up like this. Good luck on your selection.

[Bill Sutherland]

Buy the best equipment and in the long run it will cost you a lot less. I purchased the usual big box equipment and have come to realize that if I'd just purchased some of the Festool tools I really wanted I would have saved purchasing tools that are just sitting now. If you ever decide that woodworking isn't your "thing" you can easily sell Festool equipment on CL for nearly what you paid.

[Stan Calow]

I think Ridgid still has an optional muffler they sell at HD that helps with the noise.

[Al Launier]

Totally agree with posts #2 & #3.

[glenn bradley]

I've had one of the bigger Ridgid shop vacs with the detachable blower for over 15 years.

I also have one of these and picked up another during a black Friday deal for a great price. The removable blower means that IF you ever did want better separation and wanted to reduce the footprint you could do this with a weekend project.

330007330008

[Art Mann]

It seems to me that you are the one who failed to understand the original poster's question. Just to clear things up, he was asking for advice on shop vacuums. He was not asking which brand of electric hand tool has the best dust collection. You may think that Festool is the only brand that provides good dust collection. My personal experience is that your assertion is not correct. May I ask how you have so much knowledge of all the other brands? Have you tested all the tools the OP now owns?.


Seriously? did anyone actually read the OP's question? All this talk about dust collectors, cyclones etc is ridiculous.

Ivan, with the tools you have, router, circular saw and sander, all have poor at best dust collection. The Festool stuff has much better dust collection but are expensive. If you're just starting out and don't know if you're going to stick with WW then you'll have to decide if that's the right path for you. If the shopvac you have now works then a new one isn't really going to improve your current situation as the tools aren't designed for good dust collection.

So unless you're ready to upgrade all your tools you'd be better off buying a good quality respirator.

Mike

[Harlan Barnhart]

To the opening post, I have a fein turbo ii and find it indispensable. For me it's worth the cost just for the noise reduction, automatic start/stop is a great feature as well and I've never had a problem overloading a 20 amp circuit, or any circuit for that matter. I bought mine for $299 but they've gone up since then.

[Jim Dwight]

The reason the filter is so important is that if you use a vacuum with a poor filter, it will blow the fine dust you are worried about up in the air and all over your workspace. It will get the big stuff off the floor but will not help you be healthier at all.

I agree with your statement that tools with good dust collection capability are more important than better vacuums. Good vaccums tend to have better filters and auto on but these features can be added to less expensive vacuums while still saving money.

This is the auto on switch I use. Works well but I had to put a wire across it to keep it in the outlet:

http://www.amazon.com/DGC-PRODUCTS-IS110M-i-Socket-Autoswitch/dp/B005ELWUWG/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1453641559&sr=1-1&keywords=auto+on+shop+vacuum+switch

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

My old Craftsman shop vac is still going strong after almost 20 years of use.
You say your sander is the biggest dust maker. Does it have a port that will accept a hose? If so, get a hose that fits it, and buy or make an adapter to connect the sander hose to your shop vac hose. I do that with an old Porter Cable sander, and I can sand about 95% dust free.

If your sander doesn't have a dust port, then you need to get one that does.

The main thing you gain from a high end vacuum is noise reduction.

[Charles Lent]

Use whatever vacuum you have now, household vacuum, shop vacuum, or whatever, and add a Dust Deputy ahead of it. Then add a hose from the exhaust port of the vacuum and run it through a window or port to the outdoors. The Dust Deputy will keep the filter in the vacuum clean, and venting the vacuum to the outdoors will prevent even the micro fine dust from getting back into your shop.

I'm using a re-purposed whole house central vacuum unit that I got free when they rebuilt the house next door, but any vacuum will do for sanding, if it has good suction. Don't buy a new vacuum, spend your money on a Dust Deputy. You will be amazed how well it works.

To keep the filter in the vacuum from clogging, I use a Dust Deputy to separate all of the sawdust before it gets to my vacuum unit. The filter in the vacuum never sees any visible sawdust. Any invisible sawdust that isn't separated out by the Dust Deputy or caught by the vacuum filter goes out through a pipe to the out doors. For me, the 5 gallon bucket under my Dust Deputy needs to be dumped about every 3 months. I always check the vacuum canister and filter when dumping the 5 gallon bucket, but have never found anything in the vacuum or it's filter. The bucket usually has 3-4 gallons of sawdust in it from my sanding, drilling, scroll sawing, and vacuuming the floor and I work in my shop about 3 full days per week. My planers and table saw make big wood chips, so I don't worry too much about keeping sawdust from them from getting into my shop air.

Charley

[Bill Sutherland]

+ 1 for the Dust Deputy. I have two, one hooked to my Festool Vacuum and the other to my Rigid shop vac. Between these two and my Shopsmith 330 dust collector I'm able to keep things fairly dust free. Panty hose on the Rigid has also worked well.

[Robert Engel]

For those basic tools, a Ridgid is a fine shopvac. You should research "Dust Deputy" because adding that preseparator can keep your filter from clogging prematurely.

Once you get into bigger stationary tools like a bandsaw, tablesaw, jointer, planer, you can think about a 4" dust collector.

Also, get yourself a good respirator. I am partial to the 3m half mask: it's inexpensive, fits well, and has replaceable, available filters.

Last,
WELCOME TO THE CREEK!!! Roll up your cuffs and wade in. The water's nice.Yes yes yes.

You can add a HEPA filter, too.

[M Toupin]

It seems to me that you are the one who failed to understand the original poster's question. Just to clear things up, he was asking for advice on shop vacuums. He was not asking which brand of electric hand tool has the best dust collection. You may think that Festool is the only brand that provides good dust collection. My personal experience is that your assertion is not correct. May I ask how you have so much knowledge of all the other brands? Have you tested all the tools the OP now owns?.

Apparently the burr under your saddle has affected your reading comprehension Art. I didn't miss-understand the OPs question, I think it was clear. He listed the tools he has and asked if a new shop vac (he already owns one if you missed that too) would improve his dust collection with the tools he presently owns.

Nowhere did I recommend he buy Festool or any other brand. If you re-read my post you'll see I merely pointed out that the tools he has NOW all have fairly poor dust collection and that a NEW shop vac would do little to improve that situation. If you re-read the OP's original post he is the one who mentioned Festool. I merely commented on his question if other brands such as Festool would be worth while. In fact, I didn't recommend buying any new tools, I recommended a good respirator which I still think is appropriate for his current situation.

I am a bit baffled on the "assertion" comment though. So what is the "assertion" that you apparently believe I made? Is it that high end tools such as Festool, Fein et al have better dust collection? Surely you don't wish to debate if tools designed with little or no thought to dust collection perform on the same level as those that where designed with dust collection in mind?

Mike

Who owns nothing green but has a a whole stable full of yellow, gray and orange dust spewing powered hand tools...