Ipe workbench pics - verbose

[rick fulton]

Howdy–

Never officially introduced myself. I’ve posted a few questions and responses on this forum – at least 20. Somehow they have all been deleted. Don’t know how I managed that, maybe I forgot to pay my bill. No matter, the significance of my posts are lost in the flood of truly knowledgeable information that is always being submitted on this forum.

A sidetrack on my kitchen remodel required a larger work surface. The table-saw surface works in a pinch, but becomes a conflict of interest if used repeatedly. What started as a single afternoon project ended up taking most of three weekends (including Labor Day). Built almost completely from scrap, this hodgepodge of a bench is likely going to crack wide open the first time we get a good humid day or a cold spell.

The top is made of laminated Ipe and is approximately 28” x 71”. Each side, and the middle are made of four laminated 1x4s. The rest of the top was built from 1x4s with 2” notched out starting about 4” from each end. I screwed two 10" x 1.75" x 62” MDF type door slabs into the two built up notched sections. I’m hoping the sealed door slabs will give some stability to the top as it expands and contracts (floating on the door slabs). SWMBO thinks I may have overdone it. Strained my back moving the top around.

The frame is built around the Geoffrey Noden Adjust-A-Bench legs and casters. The stretchers are laminated 1x8s of Maple, Poplar, and Red Oak. The tray area under the table is walnut plywood. The feet are two laminated 2x12” of D.Fir with Ipe soles. The crossbeams are 4x8 Douglas Fir.

The top was flattened to ~3.75” thick with a router using the Tage Frid method, and sanded to 400 grit. The holes were plunge routed for the first 1.5”, and then Auger drilled the rest of the way through. Each hole and the end grain have been coated with thinned epoxy. So far, the only finish is one coat of BLO.

I thought I could get by with using the Veritas Wonder Dogs instead of an end or tail vise, but they look rather inadequate now that they are installed on the bench. One more note about the photos; they capture my crowded 2-car garage/shop in full disarray. May post more photos when the top starts cracking or warping.

Has anyone else tried laminating Ipe? Does my description of the construction make sense? Do you forsee any problems in the design? What would you recommend for a bench vise? Front, tail, or end? Single or double screw? Should I coat the top with a varnish? Poly or more oil? Is it too late to coat the top with epoxy if I’ve already oiled it with BLO? My jig must have bowed a bit as I flattened the top. Should I belt-sand out the waves and bows more? Or start over? How flat should the top be?

All comments are welcome. Not just courteous comments. You people are too kind. Some of us need constructive criticism to push it a little further. Thanks for lookin.

rick

[Frank Pellow]

Hi Rick.

The bench looks very nice. I can't help you with your questions re laminated IPE, but I will certainly be interested in the responses of those who know more about this than me. I certainly hope that your fears about the bench falling apart are not correct.

[Mike Weaver]

Howdy–
<snip>
All comments are welcome. Not just courteous comments. You people are too kind. Some of us need constructive criticism to push it a little further. Thanks for lookin.

rick

Rick,
It's the most horrid bench I've seen on SMC!

Proportions and wood are all wrong.

You should send it to me and start over.

Cheers,
-Mike
PS I'll PM with my address for shipping and I'll not charge you to dispose of such a bench because we look out for each other at SMC...:D

[Mike Weaver]

Rick,
It's the most horrid bench I've seen on SMC!

Proportions and wood are all wrong.

You should send it to me and start over.

Cheers,
-Mike
PS I'll PM with my address for shipping and I'll not charge you to dispose of such a bench because we look out for each other at SMC...:D


Now, for the real post - it looks great!

I've never used IPE before - does it require a wipe w/ acetone before glung like other tropical woods?

I think that if it indeed floats on the MDF, you should be fine.

Did you leave a little wider "notch" than the width of the MDF slabs to allow for contraction during low humidity times? If so, my guess is that you should be fine.

Also, I would have made slots in the MDF, so that screws through it up into the bench could move with the IPE. You probably thought of that too.

At least you HAVE a bench...mine isn't done yet.:eek:

Someone else will have to comment on finishes - oh Jim?

As for flat - how "off" is it?

Vises are a personal decision - it really depends on how you work.
My bench will have two vises - a record 53E face vise and either a veritas twin screw vise, or a home-made end vise.

I hope this helps a bit. - Beautiful bench!

Cheers,
-Mike

[Doug Shepard]

Awesome. I bet that thing weighs a ton - just what you'd want for a workbench. Just curious - what did you use to glue the Ipe. That stuff is notorious for not gluing or finishing well. I'm actually surprised the BLO has cured on it.

[Lee DeRaud]

The phrase "assembled in place" was the first thing that jumped into my head :eek: . I won't even guess at the weight, but my rough estimate tells me there's enough ipe there to do about a 6'x12' deck, maybe $500 worth last I checked.

As far as finish is concerned, I think I would have been tempted to just scrape it smooth and leave it unfinished. Worst case, it goes silver/gray over the years, but I doubt it will, since it won't get much UV there in the garage. For that matter, I wouldn't worry about it moving (in the shrink/expand sense) much either.

[Lee DeRaud]

You should send it to me and start over.Mike, you really wanna pay the shipping on that monster?!? :eek: :D :cool:

[Sam Blasco]

Nice job. You will grow to appreciate the adjust-a-bench legs more and more each day you use the bench.

[Mike Weaver]

Mike, you really wanna pay the shipping on that monster?!? :eek: :D :cool:

Lee,
"The devil is in the details"...:cool:

I said "send it", not "send it freight collect.":eek:

Yes, shipping would be a bundle of $$ to be sure!:D

Cheers,
-Mike

[Roy Wall]

Rick,

Beautiful bench....!

How do you like the adjust a bench......???

I'm curious as how SOLID it is.........? No racking???

[Mike Weaver]

Rick,

Beautiful bench....!

How do you like the adjust a bench......???

I'm curious as how SOLID it is.........? No racking???

Roy,
This thread from Jim Becker may be a bit of help about the Noden Adjust-a-bench:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=13609

The actual product is here: http://www.adjustabench.com/

Cheers,
-Mike

[Roy Wall]

Mike,

Thanks for the link......I remember Jim saying his bench did "RACK" so he was needing to rework a few things.......just wondering if this has the same problem.

[Charlie Plesums]

Nice bench.

I have used PL Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive to glue ipe for outdoor furniture... so far, so good. I have a thing against gorilla glue, but the PL seems better - and a lot less expensive.

Doug, my reaction is that ipe finishes beautifully. For the outside furniture, I use Cabot Australian Timber Oil, a mix that is designed for dense hardwoods. Makes the wood look really rich, and is relatively durable (for an outside oil finish). I have made some tiny bowls with the ipe off-cuts - it turns well (but tools need to be sharpened often), and looks great with a lacquer or other sufrace finish.

[Jim Becker]

That's a wonderful looking benchtop!! Great job!

[Steve Clardy]

Awesome looking bench. You could probably park a tank on it!!
And-----Welcome to the Creek!!

[CPeter James]

I really like PL Premium Polyurethane Construction Adhesive, too. I use it for all kinds of things. Gorilla Glue may advertise more, but this stuff sticks many things to many things and is lass messy. My big problem is once you open a tube, you have to use it all nearly at once or it cures in the nozzle. I have not used it on finish projects in places where there are joints that show, but behind the scenes, it is great and the holding power is good.

CPeter

[Steve Stube]

Beautiful bench!

There is a fellow that posts on the Oak with a fair amount of experience with IPE, I have none but am dazzled by the looks of IPE and hope to acquire some experience working it in the future.

Your shop looks very organized to me and I see only one tool that might feel "out of place" in a WW shop. That is a sheetmetal bead roller, right?

The weak link on the bench (remember you asked) is the caster mounting. I think they will fold over, where there is sooo much threaded rod exposed, when you hit a wood chip on the floor as you are rolling it. Of coarse there is no evidence that a wood chip/chunk will ever be allowed on your floor. Bite my tongue.

[lou sansone]

real nice bench

I have built them myself and they are not that easy. you have done a great job. what is next on the list of things to do?

lou

[Keith Burns]

I don't know about all the technical stuff but I am ashamed. I'm ashamed that your bench looks better than my kitchen table.:D

[Dev Emch]

You have done a great job putting this together.

But I am a bit unclear on how you made this top. Are you saying that you laminated 1x4s to make the whole thing? Then you hollowed out the central section vis a vis those nothced 1x4s and filled the gap area with effectively MDF? Did I read correct?

Also what glue did you use? Did you acetone the glue surfaces prior to glue up?

One look at this bench and you know it better be on wheels if its going anywhere! I have considered IPE for my bench projects but ultimately found maple easier to get around here and its lighter in color. But it was IPEs hardness for use in a workbench that first introduced me to IPE. Currently, the fences on my hofmann shaper are homemade IPE faces replacing the factory faces. Its a strange and unsual material to work with. A little bit like wood... a little bit like plastic... a little bit like metal all at the same time.

And the weight of a bench made of IPE is nothing but massive. I think it may be easier to move a cast iron oliver machine about than an IEP workbench:D

[Greg Mann]

I've read more conflicting info on Ipe than all other woods combined. "It's stable. It's unstable. It glues easily. It's ungluable. It machines like kryptonite. It machines very nicely if your tools are sharp."

It occurs to me that simply making this beautiful workbench qualifies you as more knowledgeable than most of the rest of us. It seems like you have tried to accommodate movement if it occurs. If you have good luck with your glue choices you are probably home free. It sure is impressive.

Don't sell yourself short on what you have to contribute to this forum. I am ready to proclaim you as one of our resident Ipe experts right now! Welcome aboard.

Greg

[Mark Stutz]

That looks like a winner. I seriuosly doubt you will have problems with movement. By laminating the flat sawn boards in that way, you have essentially created a quartersawn top, and most of the movent will then be "vertical" in referenc to the flat bench top. The one photo of the end just seems to be screaming out for a twin screw end vise!

[Jim Dannels]

What are your impressions on working with IPE?
How does it machine etc.
I have been noticing it`s reasonable in price and considered it for some projects?

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Are you gonna actually use that? :confused: It's beautiful!

[Norman Hitt]

Beautiful bench!


Your shop looks very organized to me and I see only one tool that might feel "out of place" in a WW shop. That is a sheetmetal bead roller, right?

.

What are you looking at Steve? :confused: I think what you are describing must be the "Slider Bars" on his SCMS, .....OR.......maybe my tired Old Eyes, just haven't picked up on what you were looking at. :D

[rick fulton]

Thanks for all the replies. Of course much great advice has been given. Should have asked for advice before, but don’t know what questions to ask until I’m up to my elbows in it. Changes are made on the fly at that point. As a ww newbie, I’m more comparable to a computer hacker than an engineer. Examples follow.

To answer some of the questions and comments;
A.) Slap self on forehead - Wish I had thought of the slotted screw holes.
B.) There is a dip of approx 1/8 inch in the center since the two 80+ inch rails I used for guiding the router to flattening the surface should have been securely screwed into the top. I “clamped” the center point of each rail since I was worried about defacing my new top. My guess is the rail moved down as I pushed the router back and forth – flexing the most in the center of the table.
C.) Glue up was done in sections and with whatever glue I had on hand. First 11” section was Titebond III for extended open time and its waterproof. Second 11” section was Gorilla glue since I was getting low in the Titebond. The remainder of the glue-up was done with CyA and epoxy. So far, the Titebond has given me the least grief.
D.) My original Adjust-A-Bench setup did not rack much, but pushed hard it once inverted the stop latch mechanism and dropped to its lowest setting. This is fixed by using beefier stretchers and a flat tray across the entire length and width of the frame. I will post another picture showing the tray.
E.) The Ipe was on sale for $2.19/linear foot of 1x6 S4S decking material. There are no knots or twists in the wood, so there was very little waste. Attached is a simplified version of my stock cutting method. I’d say it took about 130-140 linear feet of 1x6.
F.) In general, the Ipe took the glue and finish 'almost' as well as any other stock I’ve worked with ( oak, walnut, maple, and bocote ). Closer to Bocote in workability and finish.
G.) The caster are extended way further than my original plan since the feet were cut a little on the long side and the Ipe soles add another 3/4“. As noted, the extended caster posts cause serious racking, so I only plan to use them during short moves around the shop. These casters have already been around the block a few times – I bought them used from a notorious craftsman, legendary for his finishing expertise, and distinguished sawmillcreek collaborator - Jim Becker.

Thanks for all the great comments.

rick

[Mark Singer]

Really beautiful! Careful not to slip wwhen using a chisel....its too nice!

[Lee DeRaud]

E.) The Ipe was on sale for $2.19/linear foot of 1x6 S4S decking material. There are no knots or twists in the wood, so there was very little waste. Attached is a simplified version of my stock cutting method. I’d say it took about 130-140 linear feet of 1x6.I've never seen it for less than $3/lf (usually more)...at $2.19, I might be out working on a new deck instead of staring at this computer.:D

[Steve Stube]

Norman, I'm the one with tired eyes, thanks for the help. I kept seeing one of these http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/75454938098080_0.jpghoping to give rick extra credit for branching out into sheetmetal work. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

[rick fulton]

Norman, I'm the one with tired eyes, thanks for the help. I kept seeing one of these http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/75454938098080_0.jpghoping to give rick extra credit for branching out into sheetmetal work. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

Steve -
The Performax 16-32 drum sander looks a bit like that.
Rick

[Steve Stube]

rick, the item inside the white outline, what is it? I think Norman may have pegged it right but to be sure. TIA Steve

Thanks for the puzzle fix, now I can rest easy.

[Steve Clardy]

Looks like a dewalt 12" slider

[rick fulton]

Looks like a dewalt 12" slider

Steve C. -
Correct you are. It is about the only tool in my shop that is not connected to a dust collector. It shoots sawdust toward the driveway. Close the door and let the off shore breeze and Mother Nature clean up the mess. The only problem with that technique is when SWMBO leaves her car's sunroof open.
rick