Festool Kapex Video Review

[Jim German]

In one of the recent threads (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?239586-Festool-Kapex) on the Kapex someone asked for opinions on the saw. I mentioned that I was working on a video review of it, but that it would take me a few more days. Well a few days turned into a week or two, but I figured someone would still be interested in it. Rather than clog up that thread I figured I'd start a new one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJjKrIl8hfE

TL;DR: I like the saw, but for the money it's got some glaring faults.

[Keith Weber]

Jim,

Excellent, unbiased review. It was a nice contrast to a lot of the Festool Fanboy reviews you see that seem more about justifying the money they spent, and trying to talk you into joining their cult, than putting out a fair review.

I'm putting together a permanent miter station in my shop. While I love my Makita LS1013, the one big thing that's making me consider the Kapex is the fact that the sliding rails are in the front instead of the back. This will leave a lot more room on the bench ahead of the long fence rails, which eliminates a lot of wasted space behind. It would also not protrude beyond the front edge of my 30" bench like the Makita will. I also love the left/right tilting from the front. I hate having to tighten/loosen the lever way at the back of the Makita.

That said, my main concerns are the cocky pricing (like you said - 2 or 3 times that of everything else), and it appears to be less powerful than my Makita. I agree, the poking a hole in the sticker to adjust the laser is ridiculous.

One other big factor is that I have about 3 or 4 quality 10" blades that I cannot use on the 30mm(?) arbor. That means buying new blades. Suddenly, you're talking a $2000 upgrade. That's a lot of money. Maybe I could bore out the holes of my current blades on my Bridgeport with my rotary table. Maybe that would just wreck them. Still undecided on the whole thing.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

One other big factor is that I have about 3 or 4 quality 10" blades that I cannot use on the 30mm(?) arbor. That means buying new blades.


A lot of sharpening services can bore the holes larger. They'll also need to re-sharpen the blade to make sure it's concentric with the bore.

[Mike Henderson]

I'm putting together a permanent miter station in my shop. While I love my Makita LS1013, the one big thing that's making me consider the Kapex is the fact that the sliding rails are in the front instead of the back. This will leave a lot more room on the bench ahead of the long fence rails, which eliminates a lot of wasted space behind. It would also not protrude beyond the front edge of my 30" bench like the Makita will. I also love the left/right tilting from the front. I hate having to tighten/loosen the lever way at the back of the Makita.
Doesn't Bosch have a miter saw that doesn't stick out in back? I think this is it here (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-10-Inch-Bevel-15-Amp/dp/B00G5R4E9A/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_sims?ie=UTF8).

Mike

[David Gutierrez]

Bosch Glide nice saw. think it was about half the cost.

[Peter Aeschliman]

Thanks for the review, Jim.

It seems that the major advantage of this saw in your view is the cut quality, and by that I mean that you don't need to sand the cut surface (not as much the accuracy of the cut, which is comparable to other less expensive saws). Makes sense, although I really can't think of many cases where I leave a cut edge exposed and I'm unwilling to sand it. So for me, I really don't see that as an advantage...

You mention in the middle of the video that the dust collection is really good, but that didn't come up again in your discussion of whether the saw is worth the money. For me, if the dust collection really is in the 95%+ range, that alone could be worth the premium... my current miter saw has pretty poor dust collection, even after significant efforts to improve it... so much so that I'm considering relinquishing its floor space to other things and only pulling it out when I'm doing trim work in the house.

So I think the dust collection is the only advantage that makes me consider this machine.

[Jim German]

By cut quality, I mean both the the lack of saw marks on the end of the cut, the fact that a 45 degree cut is exactly 45 degrees, and the fact that it cuts perfectly straight. The other miter saws I've used (including the aforementioned bosch glide) can't match that if you really need it to be perfect. Of course for most work the other saws are good enough.

The dust collection is great, but it isn't perfect. Which for me means if you're going to be using in a clients house, you've got just as much containment and cleaning work as if it was mediocre. And as for comparison sake, I haven't used the Bosch Glide with a vac, but Bosch claims 90% while Festool claims 91%. Thats not a significant difference. (I suspect in practice the Festool is significantly better though).

[Rod Sheridan]

Thanks Jim, nice review.

So your conclusion is that if you need precision and dust collection this is the saw to buy, otherwise just buy another CMS?

Thanks, Rod.

[William M Johnson]

I have had one for a couple of years and agree with the conclusions from Rod and Jim. I use mine for furniture making not framing. With every other saw I would leave the cut a little long and head over to the Shooting Board to get the 90 or 45 deg angle I needed. No longer. I often use it instead of the jointer if the piece is short enough. The cut is better than my Powermatic Jointer can give and it is 90 deg every time. My first cut was on an 8/8 x 6' piece of walnut for a leg vice for my Roubo bench. Right out of the box I set the board on the table and started cutting, withdrew, cut, withdrew,cut all the way through. I then examined the end and was shocked. Not only could I not see where I had withdrawn the blade (3 times) but the cut was shiny and ready for tung oil. Weird. I did have to poke a hole in the plastic to adjust one of the lasers. I hated doing that.

If I was framing or had other people using it, I might look elsewhere. It is very light which is good and bad. It neither looks nor feels substantial, like the Glide.

Dust collection is a huge thing for me and it works well. I am going to add the mustache from FastCap in hopes of improving it.

Hope this helps

Bill

[Jim German]

Thanks Jim, nice review.

So your conclusion is that if you need precision and dust collection this is the saw to buy, otherwise just buy another CMS?

Thanks, Rod.
Yep, exactly right.

[Greg R Bradley]

I'd say it is heavily biased against but a lot of that is due to you not fitting the target buyer of that saw. It isn't a construction miter saw. If you are going to compare it to another miter saw, you need to adjust for the high quality blade, angle finder, and that the price includes free freight. It is only just over double the price I sold my used Makita with a fine finish blade. It isn't 3 times the price of anything at all. Gross exaggeration like that is bias. So are the reviews that worship Festool.

I'd be the first to say it isn't designed to be the only miter saw for most people. It's going to be overpriced and not very good for general construction use.

It isn't aluminum, it is magnesium which is another extra expense to make it easy to haul. That means $100 is wasted if you keep it in a shop. Targeted specifically to a fine finish carpenter working on site and working in a low dust environment. It would be nice if they made an aluminum one for $100 less.

It isn't more precise than my carefully set up Makita 1214L with a good blade. It is better on a bench due to setback and the rail forward design. It is about 100 times better at dust collection.

It probably is a good furniture saw but you are then paying for some features you don't need but there isn't one that actually fits that use better for most people.

Absolutely no benefit to using a Festool vac but hose size is important. How about slowing the speed to the correct speed for the material and cutting various plastics or aluminum.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I'd say it is heavily biased against but a lot of that is due to you not fitting the target buyer of that saw. It isn't a construction miter saw. If you are going to compare it to another miter saw, you need to adjust for the high quality blade, angle finder, and that the price includes free freight. It is only just over double the price I sold my used Makita with a fine finish blade. It isn't 3 times the price of anything at all. Gross exaggeration like that is bias. So are the reviews that worship Festool.


Greg,

All due respect, I think that's an unfair characterization. "Bias" implies that he has some kind of hidden agenda. He provided the pros and cons in a pretty even-handed manner, and attempted to characterize the pros as "if you value xyz (dust collection, cut quality, cut accuracy, etc), then this would be a good fit for you. I personally do not thing it's worth the price premium, because I do not value those things." He stepped outside of himself and thought of other use cases when describing the benefits. That's not something a biased person would do. If he had already made up his mind before touching the saw, why would he say anything positive about it?

A review is an opinion, which means there will be disagreement. That's implied. It's not automatically biased because you disagree with his opinion.

As for the statement that the Kapex double or triple the cost of other saws... c'mon man. That simply depends on which saw you're comparing it to. I get your point that you have to take other things into consideration to make sure you're doing an apples-to-apples comparison. That is a valid point that could be made without attempting to discredit the review.

Peter

[Peter Aeschliman]

Greg,

All due respect, I think that's an unfair characterization. "Bias" implies that he has some kind of hidden agenda. He provided the pros and cons in a pretty even-handed manner, and attempted to characterize the pros as "if you value xyz (dust collection, cut quality, cut accuracy, etc), then this would be a good fit for you. I personally do not think it's worth the price premium, because I do not value those things." He stepped outside of himself and thought of other use cases when describing the benefits. That's not something a biased person would do. If he had already made up his mind before touching the saw, why would he say anything positive about it?

A review is an opinion, which means there will be disagreement. That's implied. It's not automatically biased because you disagree with his opinion.

As for the statement that the Kapex double or triple the cost of other saws... c'mon man. That simply depends on which saw you're comparing it to. I get your point that you have to take other things into consideration to make sure you're doing an apples-to-apples comparison. That is a valid point that could be made without attempting to discredit the review.

Peter

[marty shultz]

Nice review! I have the kapex and agree with your assessment. I'm happier with my other festool products than the Kapex.

One of the thing I don't like about the saw is there aren't any bed extenders to support a longer board. And I don't like how forceful the saw springs back after the cut is made. It's particularly annoying when I'm cutting a longer board that I didn't support well enough. After watching your review I'm going to check to see if my dust collection is setup right. I get more dust around the saw that I would expect.

You didn't mention that the saw can make a dado cut which in unusual for a miter saw. I've never used the feature though.


I feel $1000 would be a more reasonable price for the saw.

[phil harold]

As I am a trim carpenter I love the Kapex
Accuracy
Adjust ability, easily read scales
Dust collection
but it is lacking power
and motors do burn up on them

but for trim I will always grab this saw first over my Hitachi

[Tom Ewell]

You didn't mention that the saw can make a dado cut which in unusual for a miter saw. I've never used the feature though..

I assume you refer to the depth limiter, yes one can do dados with it but I use more often with an auxiliary table/fence ( zero clearance vertical and horizontal) for cutting little stock. If you limit the depth, the saw will not cut through the horizontal part of the setup. My old Makita scms also had this feature but not quite as 'sophisticated' as the Kapex.

Here's Mike's setup as example.
330653


This can also be done with a std. miter saw but need to be careful not to cut through the bottom, this setup really helps contain the flying bits of cutoff and one can see where the saw is going to cut.

[Alan Heffernan]

Jim,
A well done review and I appreciate the hard work to produce the video.

I found your video helpful in better understanding the design, what the saw offers, and its limitations.

Thanks for the contribution.

[Rob Damon]

Jim, I have had a Kapex for several years. I too questioned Festool not providing two hold down clamps when I bought mine and so I just bought a second one figuring I would had paid for it even if it had come with the Kapex through a higher price unit.

There is a danger though in having two clamps on the Kapex, if you forget or get side track and use both clamps on a board that is not flat on the bottom or has internal stresses, because it will bind and kickback once the cut is completed. By providing just one, it forces you to shift it and just use one hold down at a time.

The only other issue I had with it is the leaking gear oil that sprays out on the clear guard and will drip on the ZCI I made for the Kapex.

I have read a number folks have had similar issue but I am not sure if this was fixed in newer models.

Thanks for the video.