Marples chisels - when were these made?

[Mark Gibney]

I got this set of Marples chisels in the photo. Can anyone tell me when they were made?

The widths are given in metric and standard and that makes me think they are more recent, maybe (hopefully) before Irwin took them over?

Do anyone have an opinion on whether the steel in these is as good as the steel in the original blue chip chisels? - so I can decide if they are worth while tuning up. The good thing is they are unused.

BTW from what year to what year did Marples make these blue handled chisels? - I can't find this information online anywhere. Thanks!

[Patrick McCarthy]

How about sharpening one and using it; performance might answer the question better than we could. Just sayin'

[Joe Kasier]

I was once told that unless they say "Made in Sheffield England" they were made after Irwin bought them. Take a look at mine and notice the difference in the stamp. I don't know if it is true, but if you think about it then it makes at least some sense.

I got lucky and found my set of 4 on ebay still in the original packaging for $50.

329791

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what Patrick said. They may take a few sharpening sessions to get into 'good' metal.

Even if they are not 'world class' they are worth having. I have a lot of 'less than stellar' chisels around for use outside the shop or working on dirty jobs.

If nothing else they can be used to make skew chisels or fishtails.

jtk

[Don Jarvie]

I have a set as my main chisels. I bought them about 25 years ago. They look like the pre Irwin one so well worth sharpening them and use them.

At some point you can upgrade to PV11s or LN.

[Tom M King]

I don't know, but those are my everyday users. I can get them very sharp quickly, but not quite as sharp as the Boxwood handled ones I bought new in the early '70s. I have a bunch of them, including different things printed on them, but can't tell any difference.

[John Kananis]

I believe (could be wrong), the white ring Marples chisels are (were) made in Sheffield. The black ring are the Irwin. This is one of my original sets (set of four). Pretty decent steel.

[Tom M King]

I just looked at a picture on my website (can't post it here since I'm "commercial") that I knew there are a couple in. I had never noticed, but mine also have that white ring. Laying on the bench with the chisels is one gray tip cover, and one blue tip cover. I think the blue cover is older, but don't really know.

[Chris Hachet]

Even the newer not made in England ones hold a pretty decent edge.

[Matt Knights]

Just because they say made in Sheffield that does not mean the steel is made there, just that they are assembled there.

Matt

[Christopher Charles]

I have similar looking ones from the late 1990s. Still use. Easy to sharpen and decent users. Go for it.

C

[Chris Hachet]

I have similar looking ones from the late 1990s. Still use. Easy to sharpen and decent users. Go for it.

C


I have a set of Miefer chisels from the 1980's still in regular use. Get them sharp and put them to work!

[Stewie Simpson]

W. Marples & Sons with the shamrock brand were excellent chisels. I have 2 sets of firmer chisels with boxwood handles.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/SDC10542.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/SDC10542.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/SDC10539.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/SDC10539.jpg.html)

[Mark Gibney]

Okay, you've gone and convinced me to sharpen them up. I had a hankering for an older set, something from the '70s, but it seems like the late 1990s it will be.

As they are unused it is guaranteed the steel hasn't been softened by being ground too hot by someone, so that's good. And I actually like the blue plastic - makes them easy to find in a cluttered shop when everything else is brown.

Over Christmas I picked up a set of four older Sorby boxwood chisels that just feel good to hold. The blades are thin, more like paring chisels, so I'll likely use the Maples to whack on, and the Sorbys to clean up with.

And if I want a set of Marples boxwood firmers it seems Stewie is hinting he'd like to sell me one of his sets at a knock down price...

Thanks for all your feedback guys!

[Mike Brady]

I have the ones in the photo (white ring, Sheffield markings) that I bought in the early 90's. The metal is on the soft side and the profile is not great for dovetailing. I have noticed that the metal has turned a dull gray color and that is something unique in the old or new chisels I own. That suggests less-than-great steel. The $50. price would be a high limit for value for just so-so chisels. Honestly, I like the Aldi chisels better. The edge keenness and retention is better and Aldis are much thinner and work better for paring and chopping.

[Mark Gibney]

Hmm, lot to think about. Mike Brady says he has what looks like the same chisels and doesn't rate the steel, that might be the one post I pay most attention to.

Thanks for all the feedback, great to be able to get this knowledge.

[Lasse Hilbrandt]

+1 on what Patrick said. They may take a few sharpening sessions to get into 'good' metal.

Even if they are not 'world class' they are worth having. I have a lot of 'less than stellar' chisels around for use outside the shop or working on dirty jobs.

If nothing else they can be used to make skew chisels or fishtails.

jtk


Jim

How come there is better metal inside than outside these chisels ?

[Tony Zaffuto]

I have a set of chisels marked "Greenlee" and for all practical purposes, are identical to the picture in the original post, except mine have green plastic handles and marked with a different name. Everything else is identical, including the "Made in Sheffield" and the white spacer. Steel is good-found better and worse through the years. Why did I buy these? Found the set of 4 in an antique mall, for $16.00, 3 had never been used and one of them looked like whoever tried to sharpen it, was a beaver that used his/her teeth to gnaw at the blade.

[george wilson]

If you use your chisels to cut some butter,and the butter dulls them,they are IRWIN!!!:):):)

[Mike Brady]

Just because they say made in Sheffield that does not mean the steel is made there, just that they are assembled there.

Matt
That would only happen in the situation where someone was fraudulently selling a product. The makers in Sheffield had integrity.

[Jim Koepke]

Even if the steel isn't optimum, they can do some work.

If nothing else they will get you to hone your sharpening skills.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Jim

How come there is better metal inside than outside these chisels ?

The hardening process often makes the steel at the edge chip or roll over easier.

I do not know the actual metallurgic reasons for this, but it has often been mentioned in the past in reference to new chisels and plane blades.

jtk

[Daniel Rode]

I have a full set of the Marple's Blue Chip chisels. Great chisels, IMO. They sharpen easily and hold an edge well. I think Marples sold millions of them. They were a great value then and reman so now.

I have a couple of Irwin chisels that I bought to make skew chisels. The steel is soft. They are easy to sharpen, like my older Marples, but they the dull right away. At $4, I still paid too much.

I have an oddball 1/4" Irwin chisel with a rubberized grip and a steel cap. The steel cap probably connects directly to the tang. It's like it's designed to be beat on with a hammer. While I don't ever use it, the steel is pretty decent. I can't remember where or why I bought it.

[Jim Koepke]

The steel cap probably connects directly to the tang.

This would be like the Stanley Everlasting chisels.

You can confirm your suspicion with a continuity tester or an ohm meter.

I keep getting Harbor Freight ads in the mail. Looks like they have a free digital meter coming up with a $5 purchase. They have a few things I might want.

I looked at the $10 Windsor chisel set. The blades were a touch thicker than what I would want for making a 1/4" fish tail. If there weren't already too many chisels in my shop (no way! too many chisels? :eek:) I would be tempted to buy a set.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

The hardening process often makes the steel at the edge chip or roll over easier.

I do not know the actual metallurgic reasons for this, but it has often been mentioned in the past in reference to new chisels and plane blades.

jtk

Decarburization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decarburization). There are other factors as well (differences in heating/cooling rates at the periphery vs core for example) but decarburization can really mess up edges.

[Jim Koepke]

Decarburization (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decarburization). There are other factors as well (differences in heating/cooling rates at the periphery vs core for example) but decarburization can really mess up edges.

Thanks Patrick, I knew it happened, didn't know the name.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Thanks Patrick, I knew it happened, didn't know the name.

jtk

Decarburization really shouldn't be a significant issue for modern chisels from reputable brands - they should all be using inert-gas furnaces, passivation coatings, etc. It's much more of an issue for people who try to heat-treat their own blades with MAPP torches etc.

I think this may be a case where the conventional wisdom lags behind reality a bit.

[Stewie Simpson]

http://taths.org.uk/424-a-present-from-taths

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks for that Stewie.

I love old tool makers catalogs.

As in almost any field of interest, catalogs supply a wealth of information.

One of my favorite sources:

http://toolemera.com/

jtk

[Matt Knights]

That would only happen in the situation where someone was fraudulently selling a product. The makers in Sheffield had integrity.

The word HAD is key here. The Marples brand was bought out by Irwin some time ago, they had the parts made in China and then they were assembled in Sheffield therefore allowing them to use the words "made in Sheffield", this was somewhat of a marketing ploy playing on the tool making heritage of Sheffield. This practice has now been abandoned, and is now considered fraudulent but for a while was common practice among many brands.


Matt

[Mike Brady]

Matt, there is more to your theory. If you you purchase a tool made, say , in the U.S. or Canada, do you understand that the materials in that tool do not have to be all be from the the country in which the tool is made? If a U.S. manufacturer puts a "USA" sticker on his product, the steel can be from Japan, or China, or the US, for that matter. If it has wood parts, the wood may be from South America, but the tool can say USA.
Here's another example: The Aldi chisels that I referred to in another post are sold by a German company, Aldi. They are stamped on the blades with various German quality standards. The handles are ash. A country of origin does not appear on the product itself, but the words "made in China" do appear on the blister packaging in a very inconspicuous spot. It is so inconspicuous that the chisels were thought to be of German origin when they first appeared and were touted by a well-known British woodworking teacher.
The current production of Stanley chisels is a bit clouded in mystery of the same sort. They were portrayed for awhile as being Sheffield products, but the Stanley chisel factory is in Mexico. Go figure.
My statement referred to the time frame in which Marples was still a British company located in Sheffield ( late 1980's). Perhaps this practice had begun by then. All I can say for sure is that my Marples chisels from that era are nothing special and probably inferior to many chisels that were being made at that time by Stanley, Greenlee, etc. right here in the USA. Perhaps Sheffield was well into its decline by then. Irwin purchased Marples in 2003.

[george wilson]

Glad I bought my Marples in the 60's !

[Jim Koepke]

Glad I bought my Marples in the 60's !

Interesting, that is when most people think I lost my marples. :eek:

jtk

[Tom M King]

329960329959I expect my first set of Boxwood handled ones are from the same sort of manufacturing as George's, even though I bought them a few years later. The larger light colored shaving is .0011 thick. The tiny ones off the chisel were too fragile to even unroll.

[Warren Mickley]

I used two Marples chisels for much of my career. They are adequate for professional work. My feeling is that they were designed to be sharpened on fine oil stones and perform better with that treatment. Like many chisels today they are awkward to rehandle. I now use mostly 19th century English chisels. I think that the Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen chisels are aimed toward the amateur market.

On a side note I was in Williamsburg earlier in the week and stopped in the joiner's shop. I examined a sash saw that was copied from the Seaton chest, but the handle was kind of pitiful. Later I saw a tenon saw with a fine handle, nice 18th century curves. It did have the Wilson name on it.

[Rollie Kelly]

George, would that be room temp or cold butter?:rolleyes:

[lowell holmes]

I have that set in my collection. I don't use them anymore, but they were pretty decent chisels. They sharpened well and I chopped a lot of mortises with them.
I have always liked the feel of them. They held their edge better than some. Of course, they were the ones on the workbenches at the Homestead Heritage woodworking classes. There were a lot of woodworking students in central Texas that learned with them.

[Mark Gibney]

I lapped the Marples chisels tonight after work on my diamond plate, and they are the flattest chisels I've ever lapped. Each one took about a minute to get a consistent scratch pattern completely across the back, from the 1" down to the 1/4".

I feel good, I got lucky. After all the older pitted socket chisels I've lapped and lapped and on, this made me happy. Even if the steel is not the greatest (and it may be fine) I take my hat off to the person who made these chisels.

And the blue handle is useful - in a shop where everything is a shade of brown they are easy to see in the clutter.

[Matt Knights]

Matt, there is more to your theory. If you you purchase a tool made, say , in the U.S. or Canada, do you understand that the materials in that tool do not have to be all be from the the country in which the tool is made? If a U.S. manufacturer puts a "USA" sticker on his product, the steel can be from Japan, or China, or the US, for that matter. If it has wood parts, the wood may be from South America, but the tool can say USA.
Here's another example: The Aldi chisels that I referred to in another post are sold by a German company, Aldi. They are stamped on the blades with various German quality standards. The handles are ash. A country of origin does not appear on the product itself, but the words "made in China" do appear on the blister packaging in a very inconspicuous spot. It is so inconspicuous that the chisels were thought to be of German origin when they first appeared and were touted by a well-known British woodworking teacher.
The current production of Stanley chisels is a bit clouded in mystery of the same sort. They were portrayed for awhile as being Sheffield products, but the Stanley chisel factory is in Mexico. Go figure.
My statement referred to the time frame in which Marples was still a British company located in Sheffield ( late 1980's). Perhaps this practice had begun by then. All I can say for sure is that my Marples chisels from that era are nothing special and probably inferior to many chisels that were being made at that time by Stanley, Greenlee, etc. right here in the USA. Perhaps Sheffield was well into its decline by then. Irwin purchased Marples in 2003.


I guess my point was really that to all intense and purposes it makes no difference where the chisels were made as long as they do their job, all we have to be aware of is that just because it says made in Sheffield this does not signify a quality product as it once did.

Matt

[george wilson]

Thanks Warren. Glad you liked the saw. Some of the other craftsmen had tried making their own tools,sometimes with disastrous results. No one was controlling the quality of anything. I don't know why the director didn't go to some of the shops that made horrible saw handles with those soft Garlick blades and confiscate them. But he begged me to become a toolmaker for 3 years. Maybe he did see some of the horrible tools that individuals with no sense of design were making for their shops. All that did come to an end after we set up the Toolmaker's Shop,at least.

BTW,all those policies except the last one sound quite good to me. I don't know what the last mentioned policy entailed. I was engaged to make several gifts for Reagan. Worked on all the gifts he made for every major head of state in Europe.

[Jim Koepke]

Maybe "deregulation of markets" is why we can now purchase inexpensive "brass hinges" that can be picked up with a magnet and do not list a country of origin.

jtk

[george wilson]

Shows what you know,Jim. Magnetic brass is a rare metal and very valuable!! Actually,alloy 360 brass is magnetic,but it seems only rare Earth magnets will stick to it. Has some magnetism,though.

[Jim Koepke]

Shows what you know,Jim. Magnetic brass is a rare metal and very valuable!! Actually,alloy 360 brass is magnetic,but it seems only rare Earth magnets will stick to it. Has some magnetism,though.

What I do know is these hinges tend to show a different color when scratched.

Actually aluminum (and many other metals) can be picked up by certain magnets. Electromagnets driven by select frequencies of alternating current.

jtk

[Ray Selinger]

The Marples Blue Chips are Ridgeways. W.Marple&Son were bought in the mid 60s if my old memory still works. I tried finding a date when W.Marples introduced the yellow and red plastic handle without any success.

[Derek Cohen]

The Marples Blue Chips are Ridgeways. W.Marple&Son were bought in the mid 60s if my old memory still works. I tried finding a date when W.Marples introduced the yellow and red plastic handle without any success.

What is the difference, if any, in the quality of the steel in the Blue Chips and the Boxwood Marples? Further, is there a difference in the boxwood Marples that are labeled Ridgeways and those that are not?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tom M King]

The only wooden handled ones I've ever seen with "ridgeway" on them have Ash handles. The steel in the old Boxwood handled ones darkens with exposure to air a lot faster than the blue handled ones even if both are polished to a mirror finish. The steel in the Boxwood handled ones is not quite as soft as that in Stanley no. 40 black plastic handled with metal cap chisels, but softer than that in the blue handled ones. None of those are as hard as the steel in Ulmia hooped chisels. Those are the only chisels I have much experience with, and don't know what to call any of those different steels.

The Boxwood handled ones can be sharpened to a finer edge than the blue handled ones. I have one use for a no. 40 that I keep at 20 degrees, but have never ground one of the Marples below 25. Other than that, I don't know. I don't pay attention to types of steel like a lot of people here do.

I wouldn't be surprised if I have 40 of these chisels. The blue handled ones are my daily users, and the Boxwood handled ones get the call for precise work. I bought a whole set of the old Boxwood ones a couple of years ago, and haven't even sharpened one of them. I never need anything better than these chisels.

Some good while back I started using the Wood is Good mallets, and haven't done anything noticeable to any chisel handle since then, including using one all day.

edited to add: I don't know if it matters or not, but I only used oil stones for the first twenty years or so. They all sharpen just fine with water stones too.

[Ray Selinger]

Derek I think you have mistaken me for someone knowledgeable. chuckle. I usually post under Downwindtracker2. Last fall I purchased a pattern maker's tool chest, there were W.Marples&Son Shamrock brand socket bevel edge and tanged paring chisels, but I haven't even sharpened them. Also included was a full boxed set of Berg socket butt chisels.I just compared BE to a flea market find newer Marples, the old Shamrock was thinner with tapering side lands. Certainly very different feel. My first chisels were Stanley 5002s. Thrown in was a shop built metal shaper, which is taking my time.

We're going up to the Kimberley this June.