Oklahoma Homestead 40x80x12

[Jefferey Scott]

Hey guys,

I'm in the early planning stages for a workshop that will be used as both a woodworking shop and a metal fabrication shop. I'm trying to figure out how much lighting I can afford to put in and have a rough floorplan with 21 - 4 foot 4 bulb high bay fluorescent fixtures (at about $60 a piece) in a 40 x 70 work area. I know I could probably put in some more, but what do you guys think as far as a starting point for this plan? Oh, and it will have 16 foot ceilings and 2-10x12 garage doors and 6-3x4 windows in it.

Thanks!

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[Justin Ludwig]

I think there are lots of threads discussing lights and "is it enough" and "bright enough", yada yada. I'm in a 40x80x16 and there are only 8 8ft fluorescent lights and I can see just fine. Maybe I could see a lot better - but I'd rather buy more tools than lights as I don't see a problem (see what I did there? - twice) I did add a 4' fluorescent over my face frame table. IMO - I think your shop will be plenty bright.

Where about in OK are you located? My home town is Tahlequah.

[Jefferey Scott]

I think there are lots of threads discussing lights and "is it enough" and "bright enough", yada yada. I'm in a 40x80x16 and there are only 8 8ft fluorescent lights and I can see just fine. Maybe I could see a lot better - but I'd rather buy more tools than lights as I don't see a problem (see what I did there? - twice) I did add a 4' fluorescent over my face frame table. IMO - I think your shop will be plenty bright.

Where about in OK are you located? My home town is Tahlequah.

I will be just north of Claremore on Rt. 66. We are going to build the shop first and live in it while the house goes up.

Thanks for the perspective on your shop. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be so the more light the better I think.

Jeff

[Robert Engel]

It doesn't look like enough to me. Lighting can be tough, especially when the fixtures are that high.
What kind of bulbs are they?

When I did a shop expansion my electrician sold me on 8' T8 fixtures and got them for me for about $40 ea. They take 4 - 4' bulbs and have 2 ballasts.

Jeffrey's suggestion will not be adequate for a shop, IMO. There is a big diff in lighting for living and lighting for working.

In my 1200SF shop, I've got 16 of these fixtures about 10' off floor. For comparison, in your shop that translates into at least 30 lights.
Its about right, but I wish I had more light, especially over the workbenches.
In this case you can hang a fixture 5 or 6 feet above the bench.

I agree with you there's never such a thing as too much light in a shop!!

If you've got more than one access to shop, 3 way switches are quite a plus.

[Greg R Bradley]

I would use these:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-High-Bay-Industrial-6-Light-Grey-Hanging-Fluorescent-Fixture-IB-632-MVH/202193185
6 bulb with two ballasts. Wire your basic lighting to light 3 bulbs each and then the other 3 bulbs on another switch or even several so you can add light in sections. That will let you run each half on a 120v breaker. They will run on 240v or 208/277 if you have 3 phase power. HD and some others have had these at a better deal on a pallet of 20.

You need to keep the 3 rows but I think you would find 6 in each row to work well. Where are your benches going?

Sylvania 21681 if you want 4100K 85cri , 21660 if you want 5000k 81cri, 21659 if you want 6500k 81cri. All those are 97 lumens per watt. I just paid $98 including freight for 30 21681 for my own shop. Can't get any decent deal except on boxes of 30.

Are you going to have any skylights? If so, can't see you wanting to run all 6 lamps during the day at all.

[Jim Becker]

Honestly, since this is a new build...go LED up-front. IMHO.

I recently added (6) 4' LED fixtures to my shop to replace aging fluorescent fixtures and couldn't be happier. And they are less likely to get broken when something goes "flying" in the shop, too.

[Jefferey Scott]

Honestly, since this is a new build...go LED up-front. IMHO.

I recently added (6) 4' LED fixtures to my shop to replace aging fluorescent fixtures and couldn't be happier. And they are less likely to get broken when something goes "flying" in the shop, too.

I may just do that Jim. I just saw some "Lights of America" LED's for $36 at Sam's Club. I read some of your thread where you had bought some Feit's I think? It makes sense and at that price, it's doable. I think I'll buy one at Sam's and test it in my current garage.

[Greg R Bradley]

We would need more information on the intended use to make that decision. With the basic assumptions that you are building this shop for fairly regular use and wanting a certain amount of clearance, it would be unlikely that any LED lighting is the best choice for your High Bay General lighting. It is even less likely that the Sam's Club fixtures would be anything other than a horrible choice for what I'm seeing as your most likely use. One of two of those could be a good choice if you are backing off on the High Bay Lighting and need something extra over a few workbenches.
They could even be a good choice for a storage room or something like that. LED lights are likely to make sense in the bathroom and possibly the office.

Are you using this most days? Lights on for hours at a time? I'm also assuming with an 8' wide door that you weren't planning on mounting lights at the full 16' height. I was just guessing you weren't driving any big equipment into the shop.

For the intended use I'm guessing at, you were on the right track. Let's put it this way. How much do you think people with big warehouses analyze this?

[Jefferey Scott]

We would need more information on the intended use to make that decision. With the basic assumptions that you are building this shop for fairly regular use and wanting a certain amount of clearance, it would be unlikely that any LED lighting is the best choice for your High Bay General lighting. It is even less likely that the Sam's Club fixtures would be anything other than a horrible choice for what I'm seeing as your most likely use. One of two of those could be a good choice if you are backing off on the High Bay Lighting and need something extra over a few workbenches.
They could even be a good choice for a storage room or something like that. LED lights are likely to make sense in the bathroom and possibly the office.

Are you using this most days? Lights on for hours at a time? I'm also assuming with an 8' wide door that you weren't planning on mounting lights at the full 16' height. I was just guessing you weren't driving any big equipment into the shop.

For the intended use I'm guessing at, you were on the right track. Let's put it this way. How much do you think people with big warehouses analyze this?


After reading this Greg, you have some valid points. I had planned to test with a light meter the output at the 15-16' distance, which will be the ceiling height on my building. I think I'll get one of those high bay 4 or 6 tube models and test also. I've read some positive's and negative's now on the LED stuff at the discount stores.

The planned usage is a full on woodworking shop on one end and a metal fabrication/welding shop on the other end. I will be working in there most every weekend all day/night and some weekday hours at night. It may become a side business eventually so I want to get this right the first time. I do love LED technology, as I have quite a bit of it in the current house and it's great.

Thanks to everyone for chiming in so far. It's valuable to hear your opinions.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

You probably already saw it but the Shop lighting tread at the top of this forum links to a worthwhile article by Jack Lindsey.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/content.php?146-Lighting-the-Small-Workshop-by-Jack-Lindsey

[Jim Becker]

Greg does have a good point about ceiling height. You have to take that into consideration for sure. For a shop of this size, it may actually pay for you to discuss things with a lighting specialist at a real supply house. It could be useful to you.

[Mike Heidrick]

I agree! Those lights are very dim compared to some options out there for sure. You have super tall ceilings - This is not a 12' ceiling (much less 8'-10') you are dealing with.

I think you are really wanting some T5HO lights. Some may say T8HO but taking into account your 3200sqft and a rough stab at 400 sqft per fixture you are looking at a minimum of 8 six bulb fixtures at about 3 amps each which will be a couple circuits. I am actually running 8 now on two circuits in a 40X64X16 in two rows of 4 ea and plan to add two more rows of four lights on a total of 4 lighting circuits. It is super nice having good lighting and I want no issue seeing anywhere. I am running Howard ballasts/fixtures purchased from corslighting on ebay in jacksonville IL using the 5000k lamps. I really like the light and so has everyone that has been in there. Cost is about $110 ea with bulbs shipped.

[Greg R Bradley]

My original post was assuming you would mount the lights at 12-14'. If you wish to mount them at 16', that does open up the 4xT5HO as a reasonable option. They basically have the same light out of a smaller area so they glare more at lower heights. Being a bit smaller and lighter they are easier to mount. At 16' either is a good option. I mounted the 167 6xT8 units in the big building at 28' and they work fine at that height.

85 avg Lumens per watt - 216 watt for 18,200 lumens: 4 T5HO using high output long life bulbs
89 avg Lumens per watt - 192 watt for 17,200 lumens: 6 T8 using high output long life bulbs
88 avg Lumens per watt - 128 watt for 11,200 lumens: I-Beam LED $199 at HD.

All these are using average lumens which is after 30,000 hours of use at 12 hours per day. T5HO specs drop below 95 degrees, certainly not a problem near the ceiling around here.

ALL of these require 2' clearance to ceiling. LED also spec 104 degree max.

T5HO lose the ability to turn half of the bulbs on and then turn on the other half when/where you want more light. May be a big deal for some, certainly for me. Could be a huge money saver if you have skylights. OK is sunny a lot, right?

You mentioned trying some. You probably need to try 2 mounted at your intended height and separated by your planned row distance. Pretty easy with a forklift.

[Tom M King]

I will be just north of Claremore on Rt. 66. We are going to build the shop first and live in it while the house goes up.

Thanks for the perspective on your shop. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be so the more light the better I think.

Jeff

That's what my Wife and I said in 1980 when we decided to build her pottery shop first, and live in it for a while. We've been here for coming up on 36 years.

[Brad Adams]

I just built A 50'X80'X14' new shop. My electrician had the lighting designed. I have 18- 6 bulb t-5 high bay fixtures.

The light output is awesome. I would have went LED if there would have been rebates available to help with the cost. Unfortunately, the utility here only offers rebates on replacing existing fixtures.

[Jefferey Scott]

I agree! Those lights are very dim compared to some options out there for sure. You have super tall ceilings - This is not a 12' ceiling (much less 8'-10') you are dealing with.

I think you are really wanting some T5HO lights. Some may say T8HO but taking into account your 3200sqft and a rough stab at 400 sqft per fixture you are looking at a minimum of 8 six bulb fixtures at about 3 amps each which will be a couple circuits. I am actually running 8 now on two circuits in a 40X64X16 in two rows of 4 ea and plan to add two more rows of four lights on a total of 4 lighting circuits. It is super nice having good lighting and I want no issue seeing anywhere. I am running Howard ballasts/fixtures purchased from corslighting on ebay in jacksonville IL using the 5000k lamps. I really like the light and so has everyone that has been in there. Cost is about $110 ea with bulbs shipped.

Thanks, Mike. I really like what you've done with your shop so far. I will check out the lights you have.



My original post was assuming you would mount the lights at 12-14'. If you wish to mount them at 16', that does open up the 4xT5HO as a reasonable option. They basically have the same light out of a smaller area so they glare more at lower heights. Being a bit smaller and lighter they are easier to mount. At 16' either is a good option. I mounted the 167 6xT8 units in the big building at 28' and they work fine at that height.

85 avg Lumens per watt - 216 watt for 18,200 lumens: 4 T5HO using high output long life bulbs
89 avg Lumens per watt - 192 watt for 17,200 lumens: 6 T8 using high output long life bulbs
88 avg Lumens per watt - 128 watt for 11,200 lumens: I-Beam LED $199 at HD.

All these are using average lumens which is after 30,000 hours of use at 12 hours per day. T5HO specs drop below 95 degrees, certainly not a problem near the ceiling around here.

ALL of these require 2' clearance to ceiling. LED also spec 104 degree max.

T5HO lose the ability to turn half of the bulbs on and then turn on the other half when/where you want more light. May be a big deal for some, certainly for me. Could be a huge money saver if you have skylights. OK is sunny a lot, right?

You mentioned trying some. You probably need to try 2 mounted at your intended height and separated by your planned row distance. Pretty easy with a forklift.

Greg, all good points. I think I'll stay with the T8 or T5 High Bays. I've been looking at specs on them and they seem to be rated for 15-40 ft ceilings so no worries as far as having a really high ceiling. Thanks for the information you provided, very helpful.



That's what my Wife and I said in 1980 when we decided to build her pottery shop first, and live in it for a while. We've been here for coming up on 36 years.

Tom, I can see us doing that too! I think that's very cool!



I just built A 50'X80'X14' new shop. My electrician had the lighting designed. I have 18- 6 bulb t-5 high bay fixtures.

The light output is awesome. I would have went LED if there would have been rebates available to help with the cost. Unfortunately, the utility here only offers rebates on replacing existing fixtures.

Thanks for chiming in Brad. I will take your experience into consideration when designing my grid. I may go to a local lighting supply store and see if they provide any kind of design services. I plan to do all the electrical myself from the main panel out to the lights, fans, and outlets.

[Jefferey Scott]

Here's another grid design for the lights. This plan would place 1 fixture every 100 sq feet. With this density I would put each row on its own circuit or if I got dual ballast fixtures, half of each row on a circuit. I'll have a large main panel with 200 amps, so no worries on the number of circuits in the box.

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[Jim Andrew]

Wondering what is the purpose of building with 16' sidewalls? Do you plan to build a 2 story house in one end? I have a neighbor who did that, about half the shed is house and the other half is a huge high ceiling garage.
I have a 16' sidewall building, but built it so a combine would fit under the door. Adjusting the doors is a pain, huge high ceiling. Need a long ladder to do anything in there.

[Steve Peterson]

I would want lots of light switches. No sense in lighting the entire building if you are only working in one zone.

Steve

[Greg R Bradley]

FYI, assuming full reflector High Bay Lighting and good bulbs, measured at 30" bench height and 14' fixture height:

Your first plan of 3 rows of 7 4xT8 is 73fc

My initial suggestion of 6xT8 with double ballast and 3 rows of 6 is 88fc

Change that to 4xT5HO is 85fc

Change that to $199 HD LED High bay is 67fc

If you change to 4 rows of 5 then the 6xT8 gets you 92fc, 4 rows of 6 gets you 110fc, your last design of 4 rows of 7 is 120fc :eek:

[Jefferey Scott]

Wondering what is the purpose of building with 16' sidewalls? Do you plan to build a 2 story house in one end? I have a neighbor who did that, about half the shed is house and the other half is a huge high ceiling garage.
I have a 16' sidewall building, but built it so a combine would fit under the door. Adjusting the doors is a pain, huge high ceiling. Need a long ladder to do anything in there.

I do plan on a 2nd floor above the office/bathroom area and would like the ability to duplicate that arrangement anywhere in the building as needs change. It's just a way to get more floorspace as needed. Also, I had planned on buying some rolling scaffolding for the interior build out, so I should have it handy to change light bulbs.



I would want lots of light switches. No sense in lighting the entire building if you are only working in one zone.

Steve

Absolutely! I want to only turn on what I need depending on which area of the building I'm working in. I'll be buying romex in the big rolls :)




FYI, assuming full reflector High Bay Lighting and good bulbs, measured at 30" bench height and 14' fixture height:

Your first plan of 3 rows of 7 4xT8 is 73fc

My initial suggestion of 6xT8 with double ballast and 3 rows of 6 is 88fc

Change that to 4xT5HO is 85fc

Change that to $199 HD LED High bay is 67fc

If you change to 4 rows of 5 then the 6xT8 gets you 92fc, 4 rows of 6 gets you 110fc, your last design of 4 rows of 7 is 120fc :eek:

Prepare for the Sunburn!!

You are a lighting guru, Sir.

[Thomas Canfield]

In addition to lots of light switches, I recommend using multiple breakers and also have an emergency exit light(s) for power outage. I got caught in shop early one morning when there was a power outage and had to feel my way across shop to flashlight.

[Jefferey Scott]

In addition to lots of light switches, I recommend using multiple breakers and also have an emergency exit light(s) for power outage. I got caught in shop early one morning when there was a power outage and had to feel my way across shop to flashlight.

Amen on the multiple breakers, I'll have plenty to use. And I hadn't thought of the emergency exit light. I know exactly what you're talking about and that's an excellent suggestion. Thanks Thomas.

[Jefferey Scott]

I wish I had some construction pictures for everyone, that will happen in June/July. For now, I can show you where the shop will sit...

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[Ted Calver]

A bit off topic, but have you considered adding a storm shelter? It might be easier now than later. You won't regret having one when that big twister heads your way.

[Jefferey Scott]

A bit off topic, but have you considered adding a storm shelter? It might be easier now than later. You won't regret having one when that big twister heads your way.

Storm shelter? Absolutely!

[Jefferey Scott]

Hi Guys,

It's been over a year now and has taken me that long to get things in order. I just signed a contract for my 40x80x12 Shop with a local pole barn builder. I reduced the height of the building from 16 to 12 in order to keep within my budget which is pretty strict. It also allowed me some funds to start finishing out the inside. So to recap this is going to be a metal fab and woodworking shop. The two will be at opposite ends of the building to reduce the chance that metal grit and grime will stay out of the woodworking area. I've got some pictures of the land where the building will go and renditions of what the building should look like below.

Wide shot of our 10 acres from the back fenceline

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Shot of where the shop will sit. Four t posts mark the corners

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Shot of grade slope. Its slopes from front to back 18". House in the shot is the neighbors.
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Front of Shop
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Back of Shop
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Floorplan including living quarters at the west end.
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So the builder has me about 8 weeks out on their schedule. They might bump me up if an opening comes available. The plan calls for a dirt building pad to be constructed and then built on. They will pour a 4" slab with monolithic stem walls around the perimeter. I'm going to contract the dirt work. I calculate I'll need 10 loads of loam to do it. Haven't got a quote yet, I'm getting recommendations from the builder on dirt guys in the area. This building will be our primary residence for a while. Can't wait to get all my machines and tools moved in. This is something I've dreamed of for decades, but waited almost too late to accomplish (I'm 54).

Thanks for looking.

Jeff

[mike wacker]

Greg,

Great post with the numbers. My 58 year old eyes are fine with 73 foot candles for sure. One point that I didn't notice mentioned in this thread is that not only are high quality lamps important, the output of the ballasts is key. Most HIF (High Intensity Fluorescent) high bay fixtures come with High lumen output ballasts but not all. T8 Ballasts typically come in low, normal and high output versions. They all produce about the same lumens per watt (roughly), the higher the output the higher the energy consumption (sp). Something about physics there. Sorry, I digressed. Make sure you get the high output ballasts in your high bay fixtures.

Also, I strongly agree with the recomendation that you switch the devil out of that lighting layout. Stating the obvious perhaps, you can put multiple switchs on a circuit as long as you don't exceed the wiring/breaker limitations. The 21 fixtures you discribed will draw a little over an amp apiece. Once I do the math thats 2.4ish kW. If you are paying 10 cents a kWh for electricity, thats 24 cents an hour if they are all on. Your Mileage WILL Vary.

Paint everything (ceiling/walls/floor) as light a color as you can stand. I recommend white for ceiling and walls, light gray/tan for the floor. The reflectance can add 10% plus to your over all light levels, especially near the edges.

Cuse my spelling, I do Math and lighting lol. Lastly, I think you'll be very happy with your original 3x7 layout.

[Jim Andrew]

You might look at putting your storm shelter inside the building. We went through a tornado in 1980, had to go outside to get into the cellar, so we just sat in the house, and the tornado went around us. It took the barn across the road, and spread debris all directions around our old house.

[Jefferey Scott]

Greg,

Great post with the numbers. My 58 year old eyes are fine with 73 foot candles for sure. One point that I didn't notice mentioned in this thread is that not only are high quality lamps important, the output of the ballasts is key. Most HIF (High Intensity Fluorescent) high bay fixtures come with High lumen output ballasts but not all. T8 Ballasts typically come in low, normal and high output versions. They all produce about the same lumens per watt (roughly), the higher the output the higher the energy consumption (sp). Something about physics there. Sorry, I digressed. Make sure you get the high output ballasts in your high bay fixtures.

Also, I strongly agree with the recomendation that you switch the devil out of that lighting layout. Stating the obvious perhaps, you can put multiple switchs on a circuit as long as you don't exceed the wiring/breaker limitations. The 21 fixtures you discribed will draw a little over an amp apiece. Once I do the math thats 2.4ish kW. If you are paying 10 cents a kWh for electricity, thats 24 cents an hour if they are all on. Your Mileage WILL Vary.

Paint everything (ceiling/walls/floor) as light a color as you can stand. I recommend white for ceiling and walls, light gray/tan for the floor. The reflectance can add 10% plus to your over all light levels, especially near the edges.

Cuse my spelling, I do Math and lighting lol. Lastly, I think you'll be very happy with your original 3x7 layout.

Thanks for your thoughts Mike. I am definitely going to have multiple switches and lighting zones. Question, since my ceiling height is 12' now, do i still need High-Bay fixtures?

[Jefferey Scott]

You might look at putting your storm shelter inside the building. We went through a tornado in 1980, had to go outside to get into the cellar, so we just sat in the house, and the tornado went around us. It took the barn across the road, and spread debris all directions around our old house.

Jim, I'm thinking of building an above ground steel safe room in the house when constructed, or possibly one in the shop doubling as a gun safe. I've got a 8x4 gun safe room i built in my garage now.

[Curt Harms]

Honestly, since this is a new build...go LED up-front. IMHO.

I recently added (6) 4' LED fixtures to my shop to replace aging fluorescent fixtures and couldn't be happier. And they are less likely to get broken when something goes "flying" in the shop, too.

A huge +1 to that. I was finding that fluorescent tubes weren't lasting all that long -- we may turn the basement/shop lights on 6 times a day. I suspect that's why the short life. I'd read that fluorescents prefer to come on and stay on. LEDs don't care, some dimmers (did?) turn them on and off 50 times a second or some such silly number.

I spent Sunday rebuilding a fluorescent shop light that didn't have a conventional ballast, the electronics are built into the ends. I bought 2 4' LED tubes that are 120 volt. I wasn't able to reuse the lamp holders so ordered 12 lamp holders that look like these (http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Fluorescent-T8-Light-Socket-Holder-AC100-250V-50-60Hz-for-T8-LED-Bracket-Lamp-/381155722041?hash=item58bea6c339:g:l~YAAOSwPhdU3Xd v) from Ebay. They can be fastened about anywhere you like. The 120 volt LED tubes only require power on one end; the other end is only to hold the tubes. Pretty handy and the little suckers are bright!

[Jefferey Scott]

LED is the way to go I've concluded. Found these (https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/192230/KEY-SLST75.html) online and wondered if the specs look good to you lighting gurus on the forum. The price is certainly right, and now that I'm hanging them at 11-12 ft off the floor instead of 16, I'm not sure I need anything more substantial. I could do 4 long rows of 7 lights per row, which would give me 1 light for every 100 sq ft in the shop. I am on a budget, so I have to compromise sometimes.

Thoughts?

[Greg R Bradley]

I didn't read your entire thread so don't know the use you intend for this shop but if will see moderate use:
I can't imagine any way that fluorescents won't be your best choice.

The light you linked is Task Lighting and may be a good choice for extra light over some workbenches, where the light is turned on for a short time. LED has some big advantages where the light is turned on/off frequently. For example, I have one building that has fluorescents in the main work area that is turned on in the morning and off at night. LED with occupancy sensors is used in an upstairs storage area where each row may be accessed for a few minutes up to a few hours at a time. Basically the occupancy sensor turns on that row of lights when someone enters that row and off after 10 minutes after no movement is detected.

Based upon your large open area and 12' intended height, these will probably be your best bet: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-High-Bay-Industrial-6-Light-Grey-Hanging-Fluorescent-Fixture-IB-632-MVH/202193185

It is very important to add efficient long life bulbs and not buy the junk bulbs from the BORG. They have two 120-277v ballasts so can be wired into two 3 bulb fixtures. Turn 3 bulbs on for general lighting and the other 3 when you need more light in that area. T-8 is the easy choice for eventual LED bulb conversion when they finally make more sense than fluorescents for general lighting.

I have one building where I used the 8 bulb version of those for a total of 1002 bulbs. When they are ready to be turned off every 4-5 years for bulb replacement, we try to justify newer tech. So far, we have changed out some lightly used areas to LED bulbs and occupancy sensors and seem to be ahead but the 24x7x365 are staying fluorescents. We added some of the LED version of those as a test and they work well but the same light comes out of a smaller area meaning they really need to be at 18'.

[Jefferey Scott]

I didn't read your entire thread so don't know the use you intend for this shop but if will see moderate use:
I can't imagine any way that fluorescents won't be your best choice.

The light you linked is Task Lighting and may be a good choice for extra light over some workbenches, where the light is turned on for a short time. LED has some big advantages where the light is turned on/off frequently. For example, I have one building that has fluorescents in the main work area that is turned on in the morning and off at night. LED with occupancy sensors is used in an upstairs storage area where each row may be accessed for a few minutes up to a few hours at a time. Basically the occupancy sensor turns on that row of lights when someone enters that row and off after 10 minutes after no movement is detected.

Based upon your large open area and 12' intended height, these will probably be your best bet: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-High-Bay-Industrial-6-Light-Grey-Hanging-Fluorescent-Fixture-IB-632-MVH/202193185

It is very important to add efficient long life bulbs and not buy the junk bulbs from the BORG. They have two 120-277v ballasts so can be wired into two 3 bulb fixtures. Turn 3 bulbs on for general lighting and the other 3 when you need more light in that area. T-8 is the easy choice for eventual LED bulb conversion when they finally make more sense than fluorescents for general lighting.

I have one building where I used the 8 bulb version of those for a total of 1002 bulbs. When they are ready to be turned off every 4-5 years for bulb replacement, we try to justify newer tech. So far, we have changed out some lightly used areas to LED bulbs and occupancy sensors and seem to be ahead but the 24x7x365 are staying fluorescents. We added some of the LED version of those as a test and they work well but the same light comes out of a smaller area meaning they really need to be at 18'.

Understood. You make a valid point. I suppose I want to embrace LED technology too soon for this application.

[Chris Fairbanks]

I ended up going with retrofit LED bulbs as they were replaceable if I had issues in the future, they were super efficient and were CRI 90+ bulbs. Best thing was they are $10 a bulb on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Hyperikon-Dual-End-Installation-equivalent-Daylight/dp/B01H4KU8FU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488963629&sr=8-1&keywords=hyperikon%2Bcri%2B90&th=1

also check out this thread. More info on LEDs. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?249627-Costco-LED-shop-lights-19-99

[Jefferey Scott]

Thanks Chris, I'll check out the links. Whichever way I go, I do plan to buy a light or two of the leading candidate(s) and test in the shop when it's built in a couple months. Whichever I don't use in the shop, can be used in the storage room or living quarters/office. Since I'm going to buy 21-28 potentially, it's good to test first.

[Greg R Bradley]

Jeffery,

I looked at your initial design. 21 of the fixtures I would probably choose in that 40x70 shop area at 12' would give you 111fc at 30" bench height. :eek:

Depending on how you lay out your work areas and what will go along which walls, 15 is probably plenty.

You would need 3.6 times as many of the 1000bulbs light you linked above. 75 for the 111 fc.

LED lights like that are great for extra light above a bench or individual tool. Storage area where they are on/off regularly. Under 8-10 hour a day use, the low end LED lights like the Costco ones lose light output at about the same rate as good T-8 bulbs, which means the entire fixture will be tossed about the time T-8 fixtures need bulbs. Basically NONE of the LED worklights will tolerate high temperatures so extended use where it is hot will be a problem. This is one of the reasons they aren't meant to mount against a ceiling even thought that could work out in a cool climate.

Testing lights can be a waste of time because almost everything looks great when they are new. LED life tests are a joke as they rate them for light output when new and then life at 30% light loss. This is based upon short use and guessing how long it will take for them to lose 30% light. Fluorescents from reputable manufacturers are rated at 10% light loss and the light output is specified at the mid point.

When used 8-10 hours a day, one of the huge advantages of T-8 fixtures is they are basically permanent and the bulbs can be updated if/when LED finally makes sense for that use. I'm still using fluorescent fixtures I bought 40 years ago and expect to use new ones I install for 30 more years.

[Doug Filo]

When we built are 40x80x14 we used cooper lighting are lighting distributor can do a design for free to give you how many lights height and spacing you want and brightness at the table height or floor level they can also give you the most efficient plan for different lights.

[Jefferey Scott]

Good information on lighting Greg, some i was not aware of. Thanks for taking the time to convey it.

Doug, I'll check out Cooper, thanks.

[Justin Ludwig]

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Here is what Atlas Lighting drew up for my shop - 40x70x10 (scissor trusses are 14' at center of shop)

The main shop lights (ILH75LED4LS) are 9700 lumens with the lens and 10200 w/o lens. The dots and numbers indicate the FC on the floor. They have the lights layed out on 11.5' centers lengthwise and 13.3' width.

Those lights are $220 each.

I took this information and went shopping. Here is what I found: This fixture (https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/192382/PLT-20026.html) is LED ready and $45.08. These bulbs (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B015QJLD5U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1VCN0ZD746TM9) are 2310 lumens and $10.70 each if bought in bulk. 2310 lumens x 4 = 9240 lumens per fixture. Fixture and bulbs will run $87.88 each (S&H not included). That's saving $132 per fixture and still getting 95% of the light. The savings will easily allow for more fixtures if I need.

Your layout is just like mine only you would need 3 more fixtures.

If you go this route, you can put all lights on 1 switch. 18w per bulb is 72w per fixture. 72w*18fixtures=1296 watts. 120V * 20A circuit allows for 2400W, but only load that at 80% still allows for 1900W. Those lights only load a 20amp circuit 54%.

Good luck.

[Chris Padilla]

So when do we tackle your electrical layout! hahahaha!

I'm looking forward to your build thread, Jeff, as these are always fun and allow me to dream a little for my future.

I'm in a 2-car garage and yearn for more shop space but we'll see. And 54 is plenty young to get your shop going! Mine may not start until I actually retire in my 60s and it may not ever happen if I can't convince the wife to cash in on our current home and buy some land "away from it all" to build a big shop and modest home. :)

[Jefferey Scott]

Thanks for posting Justin! I like your layout and the fixtures look good. I like how some are turned the other way, I can see that working over work benches. Nice.

Chris, I've been in a 2 car garage all my life so this is a dream come true. I had to really sell it to the wife, but she's on board now. We are excited about it

[Justin Ludwig]

Thanks for posting Justin! I like your layout and the fixtures look good. I like how some are turned the other way, I can see that working over work benches. Nice.

Chris, I've been in a 2 car garage all my life so this is a dream come true. I had to really sell it to the wife, but she's on board now. We are excited about it

The lights turned side ways are in my paint/finishing room. They are label "H2" in their layout because they are a different vapor tight fixture. Those are $375 each, so I'm still shopping that fixture.

Once my concrete is poured I'll start a thread on my shop. I'm waiting on weather...

[Jefferey Scott]

I'm waiting on the 10 other people in front of me to get theirs built :)Explosion proof lights aren't cheap, huh? Look forward to your build Justin.

[Justin Ludwig]

Being from your neck of the woods, I know A LOT of pole barn builders - all with high reputation. If you want some names to expedite your build, just PM me. I understand you may be under contract.

[Jefferey Scott]

Thanks man, but yep I'm under contract. Not worried though, I've got a good builder, checked them out thoroughly, they're busy most likely due to their rep. But yes, there are quite a few people out this way doing pole barns.

[Jefferey Scott]

So here's another question for the forum.

I have been planning to cover the wall with 7/16 OSB due to the affordable price and painting it white. I've found a local supplier that has "liner panel" or 29 gauge sheet metal in white for $1.49 a lineal ft @ 3 ft wide sheets. So that's basically 50 cents a sq. ft. @ approx 2400 sq ft = $1200. OSB in my neck of the woods is only 11 cents cheaper a square ft, and then I have to paint it. So liner panel seems like a no brainer.

Pro's and con's of sheet metal interior vs. wood?

[Justin Ludwig]

Are you bookcasing with 2x6s between your poles or running purlins inside to attach the metal or OSB? Be forward thinking of rigidity and the ability to mount cleats or cabinets to those walls. Also, all your electrical outlets.

I'm shooting close-cell insulation on the walls and roof ($$$-but I need climate control for finishing). I'm not covering the walls after that except with cleats and cabinets/storage.

[Jefferey Scott]

Probably run 2x4 purlins inside the posts to make steel installation easy. I can run a row of purlin at say 6 ft for cabinet french cleats or just screw through the backs of the cabinets into the purlin.

I was thinking fire safety with the metal vs wood interior. I will be welding, plasma cutting, metal fab in one end of the shop.

[Chris Padilla]

I dunno. Steel interior doesn't sound warm and cozy; it sounds hard and noisy. I see welders/metal fabricators/machinists all surrounded by wood. Maybe just treat the area where this will be set up. Are you going to cut out electrical boxes in that metal? Doesn't sound like fun to me. :)

[Jim Becker]

All steel inside might also be a fun environment relative to noise...and condensation...

[Jim Andrew]

As long as you use insulation, condensation in a steel building is not a problem. Like the metal for lining the metal shop. Will you be using conduit to wire inside the metal?

[Jefferey Scott]

Chris, you may have the answer. Just the metal shop area paneled in steel.

I agree with you too Jim. You have to watch out for condensation.

Aesthetics are important to me to a degree, but functionality reigns. I'm going to research wood products more thoroughly. If I had it my way, I'd do T&G pine horizontally on the whole thing. Strong and good looking, but no budget sadly for that:).

As far as condensation, I'm having the whole barn covered in a product that reflects heat back out and is taped at the seams to prevent condensation. I believe it's called "Sol R Eclipse" or something like that. Spray foam has been considered, but now I'm reading where some steel manufacturers are voiding their warranties over rust issues with foam against the steel. It's hard to know who to believe with what you read on the Internet, but products like Double bubble seem to get rid of the condensation issues from folks I've talked to. I plan to use batts in the walls before I close them up, and when I close the ceiling down the road, I'll blow in loose fiberglass.

[Chris Padilla]

Spray foam is the way to go, IMO. You can really seal it up tight and have a nice high R value in a typical 2x4 bay (up to low 20s with closed-cell). I would just triple-check with whomever's steel you go with to be sure all is well with them. I have personally never heard of such a thing but then again I'm not building a steel building. Insulation will certainly help mitigate condensation. After all, condensation is a result of a large temperature difference between a surface and the surrounding moisture-laden air.

[Jefferey Scott]

Their spray foam guy does closed cell @ 1.13 per sf @ 1 inch thick. At that price I can only afford 1 inch everywhere, walls, ceiling. Is it even worth it for just 1 inch? I know that's R7

[Jim Andrew]

You can buy pretty good fiberglass for 1.13 per square foot. Especially if you have a menards store nearby.

[Jefferey Scott]

No Menard's close by Jim. I'm just wondering if 1 inch of spray foam will help with building rigidity. I know it will seal well, but is it worth it just as a moisture barrier, sealant, and with panel rigidity?

[Jim Becker]

Closed cell foam does add significantly to structural stiffness, but 1" is going to do as much as a thicker application would. I love the stuff, however, and am so glad we used it for our home addition a few years ago.

[Jefferey Scott]

I've been mentally setting up how I want my shop to be laid out. I'm using the Grizzly Shop Planner to place my various machines. I've got some heavy duty storage racks up against the walls on on the woodshop end. All of my tools are on wheels so I can re-arrange as needed. The other end of the shop is the metal fab area. I've got a drill press, welder, horizontal bandsaw and welding table in there. I've also drawn a freestanding wall to try to confine the metal shavings and grinder grit to that area. The unused area is for future expansion (plasma table?) or family get togethers and parties. I've always planned for it to be a multi use facility. Here's the initial layout, I'm sure there will be revisions to come.

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[Justin Ludwig]

I'm doing 1.5" on walls and 2" on ceiling. Closed cell goes beyond R value because it's vapor tight, air tight, radiant heat resistant, and adds rigidity to the building. If you chose to go closed-cell, have them house wrap the exterior before they put up the steel. If you ever get damage to the steel, you can't remove it from the close-cell without putting a gun in your mouth.

My insulation will cost as much as my material for the whole building (not including concrete).

[Jefferey Scott]

That sounds great Justin. I just don't have the funds to spray foam. I'll have to go fiberglass as funds are available. My shop will have to evolve in stages :)

[Jefferey Scott]

I had my dirt guy out to measure and estimate my pad. Looks like $2200 to $2400, which includes 15 loads of sandy loam. He does good work as evidenced by the pics and video he posts on his facebook page. The builder also said their crew were very impressed with his work, so he's hired. Going to have him build the pad just before the building goes up.

[Bill Dufour]

contact your power company and see if they have a design and rebate program to use more efficient led lighting for lower cost.
Bil lD.

[Jefferey Scott]

Thats a good idea Bill, I will do that. I spoke with their engineer about the service going underground from the pole, 200amp, and what's expected from me, didn't think to ask him about that.

[Chris Padilla]

If you plan to insulate as money becomes available, you might try a DIY spray foam, Jeff. Do an internet search on "foam it green." I have used their product twice now, and just ordered up a 3rd round for my daughter's bedroom. I previously DIY spray foamed two bathroom exterior walls. In this case, you can get the more superior product but at a price point over time. I don't know what their product comes out to per square foot but for the small areas I was doing, no pro could touch it due to their minimums.

[Jefferey Scott]

Thanks for the tip Chris. It looks to be affordable, and you're right, I could do it in stages as money becomes available. I need to think on this subject. I've got two months, my build date is June 7th now.

I will say I do have one concern with spray foam. I live in Oklahoma, which is a Tornado and Hail rich environment. If I ever have to replace the steel skin, I've read that spray foamed metal is difficult to remove due to the tenacious hold it has on materials sprayed upon.

Anyone have experience with this scenario?

[Chris Padilla]

I have no experience with spray foam and metal but, yeah, it sticks like the dickens to whatever it touches...but then it is supposed to as that is how it seals and to a certain extent, why it can actually increase the structural integrity. Now this is for CLOSED-CELL spray foam. Closed-cell dries very rigid...like a rock. I think that Foam It Green might have OPEN-CELL available as well. It is much softer and you can easily poke a hole in it with your finger when it is fully cured...unlike closed-cell. My guess is open-cell would be a lot easier to remove.

Now keep in mind that the R-value per inch of closed-cell is about 7. Open-cell is about half that: 3.5.

So that is another variable to ponder. Perhaps a DIY spray foam open-cell kit might work better for you?

I only have experience with Foam It Green but I'm sure there are other vendors out there, too. I just read good things about them and well, I'm on my 3rd kit so that should speak volumes for what I think about it. :)

[Jefferey Scott]

My wife and I had planned to spend just a few months living in the shop while our house is built. I could stay there indefinitely, but I didn't want to put her through that. Well she came to me this weekend and said she wants to live in the living quarters for a year or two and save up, since we won't have a house payment then, and build a pole barn house and finish it ourselves. That's kinda been my dream for a while now. I think I picked the right woman 30 years ago :)

[Joe Shinall]

Looking forward to seeing the shop built and good luck Jeff!

Let me just add that I'm extremely jealous since I only have a 16x30....

[Jefferey Scott]

Thanks Joe! I know I was envious for years seeing other guy's shops. It just took me a while to save up and at 55 now, better late than never. :)

[Jefferey Scott]

Do any of you steel sided shop owners have a preference or thoughts on 29 gauge vs 26 gauge steel for the roof and siding? I ordered it with 29 gauge, but now I'm thinking I should up it to 26 gauge as it's 25% thicker so I read.

Thoughts?

Jeff

[Jim Becker]

29 gage is pretty darn thin! But I don't know what's standard for this application...

[Chris Padilla]

Thicker would seem to be better. I'm not sure 29 would survive a mild hail storm.

[Dok Yager]

I would agree with others and say go lED in the beginning. I can`t believe the difference the LED`s have made in m,y commercial 4 light fixtures! Twice the light at a 1/4 the wattage.

[Justin Ludwig]

26 gauge is standard. Considering the hail storms and crazy winds you're gonna get, don't go 29 gauge.

[Jefferey Scott]

26 gauge it is. I spoke with my builder and for my size building the upcharge on the thicker steel is $2k. Most of the pole barn builders around the Tulsa Ok area offer 29 gauge as standard and 26 as an upgrade, so I'm not surprised it costs a little more. You do get 25-30% more steel with 26 gauge. I am going to insist that they use the same spacing on the wall girts and roof purlins as 29 gauge. I've read where some builders will use less wood in the structure because the thicker panels can span further. I want something built solid and it makes no sense to me to skimp on the wood just because the panel is thicker. Build date is still June 7th, they keep these builders in this area busy. Got my pad guy, plumber, and electrician queued up for the initial work. Now just sit and fret about the details :)

[Justin Ludwig]

It'll be here before you know it. My guys show up Monday. Weather delayed them a week.

My neighbor is building a steel building. His material arrived 2 days ago and the driver parked in front of my shop's entrance. Everyone in the local area thought is was my truck and was calling me and my associates for a day. 36hrs later, they finally received the poor guy (who was from MN). I called everyone I could and even took the driver to lunch. I felt bad he had to sit so long. I told him he needed to sit in front of their driveway and maybe they would get the hint. That homeowner is a heavy equipment mechanic and works out of state. His wife wouldn't answer the door.

[Jefferey Scott]

I'll be following your build Justin. Can't wait to see it going up.

[Jefferey Scott]

Well the design has changed a little. We've added a 10x20 porch over the entrance to the apartment/living quarters. We've also decided to go with our own choice of windows, 3x5 single hung, double pane, vinyl windows, all 9 of them.

Got the plumber, electrician, and building pad guys all queued up and ready for action. June 7th....

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And here's the latest floorplan:

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[Justin Ludwig]

Looks good. Not sure how long you're going to be living in there, but I would up the bathroom door size from 2-0 to 3-0 for wheel chair accessible. 2-6 and smaller doors, leave for closets and such. The price difference is negligible when considering changing just one door. I would make sure the storage door is a 3-0 also. Think about carrying boxes and things through it.

[Jefferey Scott]

Absolutely on the storage room door. Hadn't considered a bigger one for the bathroom, but I will as I have the room for it.

How's your build coming along?

[Justin Ludwig]

Building is up. Insulation blows in tomorrow. Overhead is in. I need to update my post. I have 3 jobs going and I've been trying to work on shop stuff in the evenings. I had Army drill Friday-Sunday, so I lost 3 days of work there.

[Jefferey Scott]

Hang in there brother. It'll all come together soon. My builder has told me my build date is June 12th now. I've been adding features to mine that have jacked the price up almost 5k, but they will add value to the building and make my wife happy. That's the important consideration. ;)

[Jefferey Scott]

It's driveway and pad building time! We got the 300 ft driveway in yesterday using 3 inch crusher run as a base material. Unfortunately the frequent recent rains we've had have softened the ground too much for the 25 loads of shale to be delivered to the pad site. We will have to wait until it decides to stop raining and the ground firms up. Here's some pictures of the 1 shale delivery that almost got stuck.

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And here's the pad site with the grass removed. It was actually pretty solid unlike the driveway.

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[Bill Dufour]

I read the other day on a ad for pole barn kits about spray foam. They recommend install tyvex or something then the metal. then spray foam the inside. this way the foam does not stick to the metal so it can be replaced when needed.
I could be wrong and it might not have been tyvex. check the metal maker about warranty with spray foam, tyvex etc. also check the spray foam maker about use with metal sheeting.
They also mentioned something about a light spray on the roof to prevent condensation, not really a insulation of much.
Bill D.

http://dripstop.net/

[Justin Ludwig]

I read the other day on a ad for pole barn kits about spray foam. They recommend install tyvex or something then the metal. then spray foam the inside. this way the foam does not stick to the metal so it can be replaced when needed.
I could be wrong and it might not have been tyvex. check the metal maker about warranty with spray foam, tyvex etc. also check the spray foam maker about use with metal sheeting.
They also mentioned something about a light spray on the roof to prevent condensation, not really a insulation of much.
Bill D.

http://dripstop.net/

If you're spray closed-cell, it's needs to be sprayed directly on the metal, otherwise you enable moisture to build between the wrap and the metal and you also lose the rigidity of closed-cell foam. Replacing metal sheets just takes a little more elbow grease when closed-cell is involved.

[Jefferey Scott]

If you're spray closed-cell, it's needs to be sprayed directly on the metal, otherwise you enable moisture to build between the wrap and the metal and you also lose the rigidity of closed-cell foam. Replacing metal sheets just takes a little more elbow grease when closed-cell is involved.

That's what I would think. Unfortunately, spray foam isn't an option. I'll be using fiberglass on the apartment build out within the building and the shop space in general when that time comes. I've read good and bad on spray foam. I'm mainly concerned with some stories I've read where the installer sprayed an incorrect ratio on the ingredients and I believe the iso was sprayed too heavy and caused serious health problems for the occupants. My wife is hyper-sensitive to certain chemicals, so we decided not to take any chance.

I'm not criticizing anyone else who has spray foam, want to make that clear. It was just a personal choice for us.

How's your build coming along Justin? Need more pictures.:)

[Justin Ludwig]

I would update my post, but there's not much to add ATM. I was gone the past 3 weekends for family, a wedding, then Army drill. I'm working my toosh off trying to complete 3 jobs before I leave June 16th for my summer 2 weeks at Ft. Riley, Kansas. I haven't taken any pictures. They installed the disconnect and service panel last week. The transformers were hung Tuesday and tied in Wednesday. All I lack is pulling wire through all the conduit, buying a DC, hanging interior walls, topping out, then move in. I'll probably get most the wire pulled this weekend.

[Jefferey Scott]

I would update my post, but there's not much to add ATM. I was gone the past 3 weekends for family, a wedding, then Army drill. I'm working my toosh off trying to complete 3 jobs before I leave June 16th for my summer 2 weeks at Ft. Riley, Kansas. I haven't taken any pictures. They installed the disconnect and service panel last week. The transformers were hung Tuesday and tied in Wednesday. All I lack is pulling wire through all the conduit, buying a DC, hanging interior walls, topping out, then move in. I'll probably get most the wire pulled this weekend.

You're a busy man. Thanks for the update, post up some pics when time allows.

[Jefferey Scott]

Well we got back from 2 weeks vacation and went out to the homestead to have a look at the pad. It looks good, but the dump trucks did a job on the driveway, it's pretty torn up. I wish my contractor had told me it was that wet still, we could have waited a little for it to dry up.

Here's some pictures below. It is 85x55 in size and goes from 4 inch elevation on the uphill side to 22 inches on the downhill side. It's made from shale and is good and level.

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Our build date has been pushed back to 6/26 due to the very wet spring we've had. The builder is behind due to it and that's ok with me, it will allow things to dry out on our land a bit more, which is a good thing.

[Chris Padilla]

Looks good! Have you met the neighbors? :)

[Jefferey Scott]

Looks good! Have you met the neighbors? :)

Yep. He's a firefighter with a nearby city department. Good folks. They paid quickly and willingly for their part of the adjoining fence that we worked out details on before the build. I installed it all, so I was mighty happy to get reimbursed.

[Mike Heidrick]

Going to be an awesome space!

[Bryan Rocker]

Before you pull the trigger, I would recommend you give "Bigassfans" a call, they make led lighting as well!

[Jefferey Scott]

Before you pull the trigger, I would recommend you give "Bigassfans" a call, they make led lighting as well!


Thanks, I'll look them up!

[Jefferey Scott]

Went out to our land to do some mowing and check on things. The ground is all dried up now the the pad is rock hard and solid. Building begins on 6/26 from what we've been told. Here's a short drone video from Saturday.


https://youtu.be/cqCKkzPNbGY

[Jefferey Scott]

We got our pasture mowed yesterday which will help somewhat with the construction vehicles access around the building pad. Had a site survey with the construction supervisor last night and he said everything looks good with the site and he's looking forward to building our "Shouse". I should find out today the start date from the builders office manager, as she does all the scheduling. Getting closer....

[Jefferey Scott]

First Day of Construction!!!

My wife and I dropped in on the crew today to check out the first day's progress and to deliver a large check (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OV32938). The guys had all the holes dug except for the lean to on the south side. They were busy plumbing (https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/search/plumbing) and bracing the posts. By the end of the day they will have run 3 bands of 2x6's around the building in preparation for concrete. I will get my plumber in tomorrow to set the drain and supply lines for the bathroom and kitchenette (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/13/0/19/DealFrame/DealFrame.cmp?bm=420&BEFID=1889&acode=390&code=390&aon=&crawler_id=476435&dealId=bqsENGOJ0xmc-IIemzSTJg%3D%3D&searchID=&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.appliancesconnection.com%2Fs ummit-c60elglass.html%3Fref%3Dshopping&DealName=C60ELGLASS%2060%22%20One-Piece%20Kitchenette%20with%20Smooth%20Ceramic%20Gl ass%20Top%20%20Stainless%20Steel&MerchantID=476435&HasLink=yes&category=0&AR=-1&NG=1&GR=1&ND=1&PN=1&RR=-1&ST=&MN=msnFeed&FPT=SDCF&NDS=1&NMS=1&NDP=1&MRS=&PD=0&brnId=2455&lnkId=8070676&Issdt=170712051301&IsFtr=0&IsSmart=0&dlprc=1579.0&SKU=389124) and utility room (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006FSVR2G). He should be done with all of that tomorrow and I'll give the go ahead to schedule the concrete crew. Here are a few photos of the site and a drone video doing some flyovers. Wasn't sure how the crew would feel about being buzzed by a drone, but they were cool with it.

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Here is a link to my Youtube video flyover:

https://youtu.be/TAGnzs34a10

[Jefferey Scott]

We had the plumber out yesterday to put in the DWV before the slab gets poured. Also had PVC run into the building for PEX water supply and two runs to where the kitchen and utility sinks will be. Most all of the plumbing is in a wet wall that will be 8 inches thick, most to make it easy on me to run all the lines and tie in all the drains. Then there's another area where the kitchen and utility sinks will be located on another wall. Here's the plumbing plan and some pictures of the work done yesterday:

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[Chris Padilla]

Progress tastes sweet, I bet, and you've been waiting long enough!! Excellent...steady as she goes and I hope no serious hiccups!

[Jefferey Scott]

Progress tastes sweet, I bet, and you've been waiting long enough!! Excellent...steady as she goes and I hope no serious hiccups!

Thanks Chris, yes we are moving in the right direction!

[Jefferey Scott]

Minor update. been waiting on the concrete contractor that the builder uses to get out there and pour. They called me today and said they would be pouring on Tuesday 7-25. I went out to my land this morning to check out the prep work and found the rebar was in and that they had put a layer of stone dust down. All is ready to pour. Hopefully the weather will hold out.

Pictures below:



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https://youtu.be/-BAsGqylIPk

[Jefferey Scott]

Today was concrete day. We had 8 crew members show up to place and trowel our slab. They did good work and the whole process lasted about 5 hours starting at 6:30 in the morning. We went back just before sunset and watered the slab with the help of the neighbor’s water hydrant. The concrete boss said to wait until evening so as to avoid thermal shocking the concrete, since it’s so hot. I will go back in the morning before it gets hot and douse it again with a liberal supply of water, and again the next evening. Trying to hydrate the slab and minimize any cracking.

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https://youtu.be/PUi_ehB7Pvo

[Jim Becker]

Kewel video!!

[Bruce Page]

The video gives a nice view of the actual shop size. That is going to be a nice shop!

[James Biddle]

That's a great video. What kind of drone is that?

[Jefferey Scott]

That's a great video. What kind of drone is that?

Autel Robotics XStar Premium

Thanks!

[Jefferey Scott]

The builder told me today that they expect to get back on my building next Tuesday 8-1-17. I'm hopeful that they do and that they stay on it until it's done. I'll have more updates next week when they start back up. I'm hoping to get out to my land every day for an update on the build.

Thanks

[Chris Padilla]

Laying a couple large sheets of plastic over the slab after you wet it will help keep that moisture in so the concrete cures better/harder/crack and stress free.

[Jefferey Scott]

Laying a couple large sheets of plastic over the slab after you wet it will help keep that moisture in so the concrete cures better/harder/crack and stress free.

That's a great idea Chris, Thanks!

[Jefferey Scott]

The rest of the materials were delivered to the jobsite Monday. I watched a Semi navigate the 24 ft opening between the gates to the property. The driver and his helper were the nicest guys you’d want to meet. They unloaded everything quickly and with care, although the trusses were a heavy load and challenged the Donkey forklift to its limit. We are ready to resume the build August 1st.

365099365100


https://youtu.be/sqCN61OujBU

[Jefferey Scott]

We arrived at the jobsite Tuesday to find a light rain falling, but the crew was at work installing the headers and girts (horizontal framing members) to the shop. We walked around the building and talked to the crew members briefly and I brought up the fact that some of the framing lumber was significantly warped. I spoke with the foreman about this and he said he had a solution to prevent any wavy walls. They said they would be putting up trusses Wednesday and had to rent a boom lift in the morning.

When we got home, I emailed the sales manager my concerns with the lumber being used and she notified the building manager who replied that he would “fix” any members that were bad. I’m really a stickler for seeing construction done right and I’m sure I’m a PIA to the crew by checking in so often, but this is part of my life savings and I’m going to see it done right.

No drone video today. It doesn’t fly well in the rain :)

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[Frederick Skelly]

I’m sure I’m a PIA to the crew by checking in so often, but this is part of my life savings and I’m going to see it done right.

You're right. You paid for it - they need to make any legitimate concern "right".

Good luck!

Fred

[Jim Becker]

I absolutely agree with insisting on quality material being used...even if this was a simple barn for livestock, it should be built well from the start with straight and sound materials.

[Jefferey Scott]

You're right. You paid for it - they need to make any legitimate concern "right".

Good luck!

Fred

Thanks Jim and Frederick, the builder has stated that he will replace framing that is warped. I think that the building manager not being on site the past couple days to catch this has contributed to the issue. I'm going to take the man at his word, but verify that the work is done properly.

[Jefferey Scott]

Wednesday August 2 brought a sunny and warm day to the homestead. We arrived just as the crew was leaving for the day. Not much progress today, just finishing the headers and putting up 5 of the 17 trusses. Everything looked good with the trusses, nice and straight.

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https://youtu.be/01zIuk8ixts

[Jefferey Scott]

August 3 2017. The crew completed putting up all of the roof trusses today. They still have to mount the purlins on the north side of the roof, but they are in place and should stay put. They also left a 30 ft stretch of hydraulic oil puddles from the boom lift they rented. I wasn’t happy to see this and I texted the building manager and conveyed my concern. He assured me they would clean it up completely, but more than likely, there will be a permanent stain on my nice clean concrete. Stuff happens, I understand, but this crew seems to show a lack of good judgement on occasion. On the positive side, the building is rock solid and I’m generally happy with the build so far. It does seem to be taking longer than it should thus far, but I’m impatient by nature.

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https://youtu.be/ceAqjbwBkac

[Bruce Page]

No fly through? :)
It's looking good!

[Jim Becker]

Nice progress...

They need to deal with that hydraulic fluid sooner, rather than later... ;)

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Looking great. I see I am not the only fan of Baja Bugs on the forum!

[Jefferey Scott]

And the truss purlins are all on the building now. 8 of the 9 windows were installed, I was curious why the 9th wasn’t and we found it on the ground broken glass and all. Another minor annoyance. Hopefully if the rain holds off on Monday they will be framing the lean-to on the south side of the building, then metal after that. Next week looks pretty rainy, so I’m not holding my breath. I would like the building to be mostly done by August 15 as we have the electrician and power company on site to install my main breaker panel and service.

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And now your daily drone montage, with a fly through for Bruce Page...


https://youtu.be/Q5Lz_hCS5IU

[Jefferey Scott]

Looking great. I see I am not the only fan of Baja Bugs on the forum!

That's actually the neighbors house next door. Not sure what all his plans are for the bug.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Your neighbor and I would get along well. I love the window placement. Maybe add one more in the back overlooking that lovely field. This is going to be quite the shop- wish I had the room for that.

[Bruce Page]

Loved the fly through! Thanks!

[Jefferey Scott]

Your neighbor and I would get along well. I love the window placement. Maybe add one more in the back overlooking that lovely field. This is going to be quite the shop- wish I had the room for that.

We absolutely are putting one there. However the window was broken on site, so they need to go fetch a replacement before it gets installed. Great minds think alike :)

[Jefferey Scott]

Well, one wall at least. And a couple doors installed today. Also the insulation on each gable end is on. Not a whole lot of progress, hopefully we’ll step it up this week as we are expecting rain on Thursday and Friday. Also had some excitement Sunday morning as a Tornado touched down within a mile of the building. No damage other than some trees uprooted. Tulsa got it much worse with the 3 Tornados they got.

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And your daily drone video:


https://youtu.be/YAf5xMgqggE

[Jefferey Scott]

We have a roof, we have a roof. The crew grew by one and the 4 guys got the roof installed today. It looks great and now you really have a sense of how big a space it is when you walk inside the shop. I’m pleased with the space and can visualize now where things will go and how much open floor space we will have. Remember this is a multi use facility, so there will be open areas for other activities.

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https://youtu.be/dhaJ81Vjuj8

[Jim Becker]

VERY nice! Congrats on the progress.

[Jefferey Scott]

VERY nice! Congrats on the progress.


Thanks Jim. Slowly but surely we're getting there.

[Jefferey Scott]

August 9th: The crew made good progress today and completed the wainscoat and sheeting on both side walls today. They also power washed the slab and got up most of the oil that was spilled from the boom lift last week. It doesn’t look bad now, so I’m satisfied with the result. We still have the west end wall to complete and a window to install, which is now on the job site. The 10x20 lean to on the South side of the shop still needs to be built, so I don't think they are going to finish this week.

The next 5 days are forecast to bring 5 inches of rain. So I’m expecting progress to grind to a halt if it’s raining during work hours. Hopefully we won’t get much, but no problem, it’ll just be muddy if we do.

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[Jim Becker]

Wow...pretty soon you can start the "real work" of getting that interior fitted out for your plans!

[Peter Aeschliman]

Looking good, man!

[Jefferey Scott]

Wow...pretty soon you can start the "real work" of getting that interior fitted out for your plans!

Yes indeed! I will be building out the living quarters first, per my wife, so that we can move in sooner rather than later. The shop area will be a work in progress for a while, lot's of tasks to accomplish there.




Looking good, man!

Thank you sir!

[Jefferey Scott]

Except for a few cosmetic fixes and 10H×12W Garage doors, I think it is done. Our door installation is scheduled for Tuesday August 15th. I will be on site doing some tractor work while the installer puts up the insulated commercial grade doors on the shouse.
Overall I’m satisfied with the build. There are a couple “nits” that I have. I am a very picky person by nature when it comes to building things. I’ll address those issues with the builder and they can make it right. Here are some pictures from Thursday August 10th and today August 12th, and video from today.

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https://youtu.be/WHCRzke74uU

[Bruce Page]

Once it got rolling you didn't waste any time! Did they get the oil spill cleaned up to your satisfaction?

[Jim Becker]

Wow...that's really looking great!

Question...the LQ end (if I'm not mistaken) doesn't seem to have many windows. I'm curious about that given how beautiful the countryside is toward that end.

[Jefferey Scott]

Once it got rolling you didn't waste any time! Did they get the oil spill cleaned up to your satisfaction?

Yes they did Bruce. By Tuesday night it will be finished and secured.


Wow...that's really looking great!

Question...the LQ end (if I'm not mistaken) doesn't seem to have many windows. I'm curious about that given how beautiful the countryside is toward that end.

There are 2 windows in the studio space. Its pretty small so that's about all the wall space we could spare:)


Thanks for the kind words!

[Peter Christensen]

I must admit to a bit of space envy as you have 5 times the space I have but I expect that is the same for a multitude of the members.

Because I don't know the climate you are in I was wondering why there doesn't appear to be any insulation under or around the slab to keep it from wicking warmth away in the winter? Not an issue or is that going to be taken care of another way?

Also it doesn't appear to me that you have finalized your lighting yet so I'll pitch in my opinion. I bought LED lights for my shop and garage earlier this year when we were completing our house build and love them. 16 of, 4000 lumen, 6000K, 5' long fixtures for the 635 square foot interior of my shop over the garage. I love the bright light they throw. Now the part that some will not like. I bypassed all the importers and distributors and bought them direct form China through Alibaba. I reasoned that I can get more lights and have money in hand for other shop needs rather than let the middlemen pocket it. The lights were about $17 US each plus shipping by FedEx so the 22 fixtures cost about $550 US or $830Can including tax to my door (about 2 weeks from order to receiving) at the time. Our dollar is better now and could have save more if I had been able to wait. :rolleyes: Buying locally would have cost 2.5 to 4 times as much. They are UL approved as my electrician can't install anything that wasn't. Mine are a T5 equivalent but the makers have a variety of low and high bay lights including tri-lights that are impact, waterproof, and explosion resistant. If you want I'll post the information of the company I bought from if you would like.

[Jefferey Scott]

I must admit to a bit of space envy as you have 5 times the space I have but I expect that is the same for a multitude of the members.

Because I don't know the climate you are in I was wondering why there doesn't appear to be any insulation under or around the slab to keep it from wicking warmth away in the winter? Not an issue or is that going to be taken care of another way?

Also it doesn't appear to me that you have finalized your lighting yet so I'll pitch in my opinion. I bought LED lights for my shop and garage earlier this year when we were completing our house build and love them. 16 of, 4000 lumen, 6000K, 5' long fixtures for the 635 square foot interior of my shop over the garage. I love the bright light they throw. Now the part that some will not like. I bypassed all the importers and distributors and bought them direct form China through Alibaba. I reasoned that I can get more lights and have money in hand for other shop needs rather than let the middlemen pocket it. The lights were about $17 US each plus shipping by FedEx so the 22 fixtures cost about $550 US or $830Can including tax to my door (about 2 weeks from order to receiving) at the time. Our dollar is better now and could have save more if I had been able to wait. :rolleyes: Buying locally would have cost 2.5 to 4 times as much. They are UL approved as my electrician can't install anything that wasn't. Mine are a T5 equivalent but the makers have a variety of low and high bay lights including tri-lights that are impact, waterproof, and explosion resistant. If you want I'll post the information of the company I bought from if you would like.


Peter,
The climate in Northeast Oklahoma doesn't necessitate under slab insulation in most houses here let alone a pole barn. It does get cold, but doesn't stay cold for long periods in the winter. Thankfully we get more than a few mild days during winter.

As far as the size, I built the biggest my budget (savings) would allow. I'm 55 so I've been saving a long time. :)

I'd like the information on your lights. You can PM the info or post it, whichever you are more comfortable with.

Thank you!

[Peter Christensen]

I bought from https://lonyung.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2756.trade-order-list.0.0.597f461fiFxyCd&tracelog=from_orderlist_company and the lights I bought were model LY-T5SL1500-40W but for your place you might want to check some of the other kinds they sell like the high bay ones in their new products. They will help advise you if you ask and were helpful. Because of the time difference they may respond next day or answer from home but the process is easy. I went through the Alibaba Trade Assurance and paid with a credit card. Advise your credit card company you are going to make a purchase and the amount or they may stop it. They do about 70% of their business in North America and can provide you with the UL certificates. Make sure you understand how they are mounted and wired and get any necessary extras in the initial order. Costs more for transportation later. :rolleyes: Shipping will be 25% or more of the order but they will give you all charges up front. For what it's worth after buying mine several members of the local turning and woodworking clubs bought a bunch and we happy too.

[Jefferey Scott]

The builder is complete now on the barn. We got our 12w x 10 h insulated commercial doors installed a few days ago. They are a quality door and the installer did a great job installing them.

Friday August 18, our electricians came out and wired the meter can and connected the service entrance to the panel. I rented a track hoe to dig the 60 ft 36 inch deep trench for the 3" pvc pipe with a pull string added. Now we wait until Monday the 21st for the power company to pull and connect our service. We will then have juice to the building.

I did some grating with the Massey and the boxblade in front of the building where water was pooling from heavy rain we had recently. It didn't get in the building, the pad was constructed 4 inches above ground level. I cut a shallow swale in front of the building to allow water coming down hill to collect away from the building.

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https://youtu.be/nPhHFe8gbwk

[Justin Ludwig]

You'll be very happy with those steel backed insulated garage doors. Worth every penny.

[Jefferey Scott]

You'll be very happy with those steel backed insulated garage doors. Worth every penny.

Thanks Lud, they are sweet and smooth. Someday when I get tired opening them with the pull rope, I'll put operators on them. For now, it's no big deal.:)

[Jefferey Scott]

I bought from https://lonyung.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2756.trade-order-list.0.0.597f461fiFxyCd&tracelog=from_orderlist_company and the lights I bought were model LY-T5SL1500-40W but for your place you might want to check some of the other kinds they sell like the high bay ones in their new products. They will help advise you if you ask and were helpful. Because of the time difference they may respond next day or answer from home but the process is easy. I went through the Alibaba Trade Assurance and paid with a credit card. Advise your credit card company you are going to make a purchase and the amount or they may stop it. They do about 70% of their business in North America and can provide you with the UL certificates. Make sure you understand how they are mounted and wired and get any necessary extras in the initial order. Costs more for transportation later. :rolleyes: Shipping will be 25% or more of the order but they will give you all charges up front. For what it's worth after buying mine several members of the local turning and woodworking clubs bought a bunch and we happy too.


Pete, I checked out and got a quote on some lights. The price was very good, the shipping was like $250 for 28 lights. I'll run the numbers when I'm ready to pull the trigger on lights. I've got some picked out on a website here in the states and now have something to compare that to.

Thanks for the info!

Jeff

[Jefferey Scott]

Picked these up off of Craigslist a couple months ago. We painted them recently and now had the time to set them up. They are 12 ft tall by 8 ft wide by 33 inches deep. There’s four shelves per unit. They went together easily and I’m now in the process of cutting decking for them out of Masonite. Each shelf has 6 – 2×4’s installed crossways for support of the decking, so I’m using 1/8″ hardboard at 9 bucks a sheet. It has plenty of support for most loads. I’ll be storing garage/shop and shed contents on these shelves.

We also put up our 10×20 portable garage. This is my spray booth, I restored the Massey Ferguson in it. We are going to store stuff that I want to keep some of the dirt and grime off of that comes with metal fabrication. We’ll see how that works. Everything is at least 4 ft off the walls so I can put up interior sheathing at some point hopefully in the next six months.

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[Jefferey Scott]

I've started wiring for a couple of outlets and some exterior LED lights. With that, I've need to get up to the trusses to nail the romex off onto. That called for a ladder I didn't yet own, so I purchased a Werner twin step 10' 1AA stepladder. It has 375 lbs capacity per side. I've been a fan in the past working with twin stepladders as they allow two people if needed on the ladder and have large weight limits. I'm also a fan of ladders with casters to be able to move it around easily, so I welded together a rectangular frame from 2x3 3/16" thick angle I had on hand and some nice 4" poly casters with brakes on each wheel.

Here's some pictures of exterior lights and the ladder with mobile base:

[Jefferey Scott]

I picked up this LED fully functioning traffic light from a guy selling them on Facebook. I've kinda always wanted one and now I have a place to hang it and have some fun with it.

Bought a controller off Ebay that lets you program 9 different light patterns. Going to look good when I hang it up.

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[Mike Heidrick]

Looking really nice! Great job!

[Jefferey Scott]

Looking really nice! Great job!

Thank you Mike.

[Bill Dufour]

I hope you bolted those shelves down to the floor or to the walls so they do not tip over. Your shop looks great.
Bill D

[Jefferey Scott]

I hope you bolted those shelves down to the floor or to the walls so they do not tip over. Your shop looks great.
Bill D


Hi Bill,

The shelves are where they are temporarily. When I get the interior wall sheathing on, they will move up against the walls in various locations. So they are not anchored yet.

Thanks

Jeff

[Jefferey Scott]

It started with a trip to Lowe’s to obtain all of the framing lumber needed for the apartment build out. It took my son and I about 1 1/2 hours to pick and load the pile of wood.

On Friday November 24th I transported the trailer and wood to the shop and unloaded it all by myself. I am very lucky to have help from my sons, but they both have jobs and my youngest goes to school full time, so I have to learn to do by myself. On Saturday I began forming the first stud walls. I made 10 ft sections of wall, which was very manageable size and weight wise. I’m using 3 1/4″ ring shanked collated nails in my Porter Cable framing nailer. They were a left over from my fence project years ago and they should work just fine for this job.

I decided to build all of my walls outside of the pole barns posts in order to create a straight and plumb framework for the apartment. I’ve learned that my pole barn is a little off with some of the posts warping somewhat and I didn’t want to tie into that and have less that perfectly straight walls.

For all of the window and door openings, I framed the openings to mimic the pole barn framer’s rough framing. This way I can trim out the window and door openings with pine boards that straddles their framing and mine too. I will trim out the exterior of the window case work with trim after the drywall is up.

At this point ending on Sunday November 27th, I’m about 60% done with the framing. I hope to finish it next weekend and move on to rough out the plumbing.

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Thanks for looking,

Jeff

[Jefferey Scott]

And the bathtub has been fitted for it’s place in the bathroom and the drain has been fitted. Just need a little more pvc to connect it and then I’ll set it in a bed of mud and attach to the walls. The bath drain was probably the hardest drain to hit due to the way it was roughed in, but no big deal.

The framing pretty much went as planned and i did it all myself except for one wall that my son Mason helped me with while he was bringing me a needed tool.

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The rafters presented a challenge as they are 12 ft long and i have to mount them 10 ft up in the air. As the pictures below show, I placed one end in the rafter tie, then lifted the opposite end onto the ladder. After that I carefully ascended the ladder and lifted the loose end into its rafter tie and centered the rafter and screwed it off.
372841372842

The rest of the framing went well with no problems. I still have the wet wall between the bathroom and utility room to construct and will do so next. Then I’m going to clad the bath alcove with cement backer board and install the tub.

Then it’s on to rough plumbing!
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[Jim Becker]

Nice progress, Jeff. I'm thinking that I would have rented a lift or a helper for those joists, however... :D

[Jefferey Scott]

Nice progress, Jeff. I'm thinking that I would have rented a lift or a helper for those joists, however... :D

Thanks Jim! Yes I wish I had a helper, but I'm learning that I have to do by myself if reasonably safe to do so. My wife is a huge help, but she was at work this day. Luckily, rough plumbing is next and that's a one man job :)

[Jim Becker]

Oh, I do understand as I often do a lot of my home improvement type work alone. 12' 2x joists would give me pause, however, because they can be relatively "unstable" when you're manipulating just one end at a time. A helper on the other end as you mutually co-walk up a steady stepladder with the board between you would likely be how I would do this kind of thing if a helper was available. It could go really fast, too, if you pre-place your ties so the joists can be set into them quickly on both ends. No matter...just stay safe!

[Jefferey Scott]

Oh, I do understand as I often do a lot of my home improvement type work alone. 12' 2x joists would give me pause, however, because they can be relatively "unstable" when you're manipulating just one end at a time. A helper on the other end as you mutually co-walk up a steady stepladder with the board between you would likely be how I would do this kind of thing if a helper was available. It could go really fast, too, if you pre-place your ties so the joists can be set into them quickly on both ends. No matter...just stay safe!


Thanks Jim! Will do.

[Jefferey Scott]

In an effort to get the wires from the breaker box, which is located in the middle of the barn, over to the apartment, I created a "raceway" of sorts to give the wire a pathway to its destination. In the Telecommunications industry, raceways or "wire trays" are common fixtures in facilities where the electronic equipment resides. I used that idea having been in the business for 38 years to run the Romex.

I used 5/4 x 6" deck boards from the service panel to a centrally running raceway that dissects the apartment length wise as shown below

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I'm using 12/2 Romex for this phase of wiring and that includes outlet boxes around the whole apartment and switches for light receptacles. Dedicated 240 volt runs for appliances are next, once I can afford the 10/2 and 10/3 for that phase.

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A side chore this past weekend was to replace the bank 1 sensor 1 O2 sensor on my 2003 Tahoe. The front trans axle was smack in the way of getting to the electrical connection so this must be the hardest one of four sensors this truck has to get to.

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It is nice though to have the room to work out of the elements a cold temps to do the work. Love it!

[Jefferey Scott]

I’ve run 1300 ft of 12/2 romex and that’s all I need for that wire size in the apartment. I now have about 400 ft or so of 10/2 and 10/3 romex for the 240 volt devices like the dryer, electric water heater, backup electric heater, and HVAC mini split system.

My lovely wife, seeing that I was freezing my hind end off some days out there, upgraded my kerosene heater from a 60k BTU unit to a 180k BTU unit that heats the barn quick!

We've sold our house and close soon, which will free up the funds for the rest of the build. We're kind of tapped out at this moment so, looking forward to the closing!

Various pictures of stuff below:

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[Frank Pratt]

That's coming along nicely.

Electrician tip: I find it way easier to strip the Romex sheath before putting into the box.

[Jefferey Scott]

That's coming along nicely.

Electrician tip: I find it way easier to strip the Romex sheath before putting into the box.


That is a good tip Frank, thanks.

[Patrick Curry]

I may just do that Jim. I just saw some "Lights of America" LED's for $36 at Sam's Club. I read some of your thread where you had bought some Feit's I think? It makes sense and at that price, it's doable. I think I'll buy one at Sam's and test it in my current garage.

I have to agree with Jim as well. Just two 4’ LED lights have changed my world in the double bay garage. One more would cover all the areas where I work.
Besides their lumen ‘strength’ (?) I’m looking forward to no bulb changes and low energy usage. I keep one on all the time for security purposes. LED is the way to go IMO

[Jefferey Scott]

I have to agree with Jim as well. Just two 4’ LED lights have changed my world in the double bay garage. One more would cover all the areas where I work.
Besides their lumen ‘strength’ (?) I’m looking forward to no bulb changes and low energy usage. I keep one on all the time for security purposes. LED is the way to go IMO


I'm a fan of LED too. I've got one of the LOA or Feit 4' lights in my shop hung 12' off the floor for security right now. I'm a little disappointed with how much light it casts from that height. I've been looking at high bay fixtures and that's probably what I'm going to go with. I'll buy one to test in the shop, and make up my mind from there.

[Jefferey Scott]

A Quick Update: All of the electrical wiring is done now. Insulation install is next weekend. We will be buying fiberglass batts and stuffing the wall cavities in preparation for drywall.

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Now a quick tool review. I've been reading about Harbor Freight's new Vulcan welding cabinet. Great reviews, so I bought one. This is a solid, very nice cabinet. Surprising quality. Not to be a tool snob, I shop at Harbor Freight alot, but they do have some not so great tools and some that are decent. This cabinet rises to a new level for them I believe. Pictures below:

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Also picked up a Craigslist score for the farm. A John Deere finish mower. 72 inch model for $500. New they are $2600. It's in good condition and should make the pasture look like a golf course!

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[Jim Becker]

'Glad to hear of the progress. It will really seem to be coming together more once you get that insulation in and start rockin'.

That's a nice cabinet, Jeff. Looks very sturdy and well turned out. HFT does have some very worthy items. I did end up buying a tool cabinet from HD, however, as the Husky configuration was actually better arranged and less expensive than the equivalent from HFT. The latter isn't always the best price these days for some things, it seems...

[Jefferey Scott]

'Glad to hear of the progress. It will really seem to be coming together more once you get that insulation in and start rockin'.

That's a nice cabinet, Jeff. Looks very sturdy and well turned out. HFT does have some very worthy items. I did end up buying a tool cabinet from HD, however, as the Husky configuration was actually better arranged and less expensive than the equivalent from HFT. The latter isn't always the best price these days for some things, it seems...

What model cabinet did you get? I honestly didn't look anywhere else for this. I was reading on some welding forums about the HF cabinet and went down to the local store to scope it out. I paid $285 out the door including a "inside track" membership they sold me, so it saved me $15 off the price. I needed something to put my new welder on, picked up an ESAB EMP215ic multi process machine.

[Jim Becker]

I did not buy a welding cabinet...I don't do that kind of work. I was only saying that it's important to know that HFT's prices are not "always" lower on some things. I bought a Husky 46" "workbench" tool cabinet from HD. A sorta-comparable unit from HFT was more than $150 more at the time. Lowes couldn't even come close with their offerings.

[Jefferey Scott]

I did not buy a welding cabinet...I don't do that kind of work. I was only saying that it's important to know that HFT's prices are not "always" lower on some things. I bought a Husky 46" "workbench" tool cabinet from HD. A sorta-comparable unit from HFT was more than $150 more at the time. Lowes couldn't even come close with their offerings.

Oh sorry, I gotcha now! Lowe's is pretty high on there toolboxes and stuff. Agreed.

[Jim Becker]

Yea, I was just really surprised that the Husky cabinets (which are quite nice for the money) were less expensive than HFT's offerings, and not by pennies.

[eugene thomas]

Use tool snobs have to be flexible. I have hf tool cabinet to hold my cnc computer and all the related stuff. But as to actual tools NOPE....

[Jefferey Scott]

Use tool snobs have to be flexible. I have hf tool cabinet to hold my cnc computer and all the related stuff. But as to actual tools NOPE....


I understand where you're coming from Eugene. I have some of their wrenches and they've been pretty good. Also a 2-ton engine crane, which has worked well, but they do make a lot of stuff that I would only buy if i were to need it for one time usage. I do think that on some products, they are getting better with the manufacturing, which is good for everyone.

[Jefferey Scott]

Below is a link to a video I shot last Saturday of the insulation process on the living quarters in the shop. We should finish the insulation this weekend and then move on to water supply plumbing. Let me know if you like the videos or would rather see pictures. I can do either.





https://youtu.be/xLTmcdk165w

[Jefferey Scott]

Below is a link to another video I shot last Saturday of the insulation process on the living quarters in the shop.



https://youtu.be/wptav56Y0kg

[Jim Becker]

Videos are nice for folks who have high speed internet, but many SMC members live in areas where their Internet options are limited. ;) So some photos are probably a good idea!

Don't forget to caulk all your doubled studs, headers, corners, etc. on your outside walls before buttoning things up. You may need to use backer rod (foam) in larger gaps or a low expansion spray foam to fill those larger gaps. It's totally work eliminating as many sources of air infiltration as you can. Also pay attention to the area behind your outlets on the outside walls to insure you have things insulated well...those are always trouble spots.

Curious why you used R13 instead of R15 in those walls?

[Jefferey Scott]

Hi Jim, I actually hadn't thought about R15, Lowe's had the R13 in stock and that's what I grabbed. You probably saw that the outer walls have R19 as they have the room to do so.

Thanks for the insulation tips, I'll go back where needed and fortify.

As far as the pictures vs video, you'd think I would have considered that. I'm leaving my 300 mbps internet in a few months for 25 mbps rural internet!!! At least I'll still get my high speed fix at work :D

[Jim Becker]

I missed the R19, but just for future reference, the current "replacement" for that is R21. Same space. Slightly higher R-value. :) :D Big-box home centers don't change their buying/stocking habits very quickly apparently.

[Jefferey Scott]

I missed the R19, but just for future reference, the current "replacement" for that is R21. Same space. Slightly higher R-value. :) :D Big-box home centers don't change their buying/stocking habits very quickly apparently.

It seems that, living in Oklahoma, building technologies always get to us last. I always see new tech premiere on the coasts then take years to work it's way to the middle of the country:)

[Jefferey Scott]

Just a short update with a few pics. We got 3 dump truck loads of 3 inch crusher run for around the building delivered last week. $750 for all. I used the Massey and a box blade to spread it out which worked pretty well.

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Then this happened. You need to keep an eye on those wheel bolts now folks. Will be installing thread locker on all of them next week! https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/images/smilies/lol_hitting.gif

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Also got our water meter in. Looks like they left me a 3 foot leader of 1 inch poly pipe to connect to.

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Interior pex pipe runs are next on the agenda. Will take some pictures of that process and post next week. Thanks for following folks.

[Jefferey Scott]

We began preparing for and running Pex plumbing for the interior water supplies. This is the first time I’ve worked with pex and I like it. It’s bendable, but pretty stiff so there is a minimum bending radius that you have to adhere to, or use 90 degree connectors. The fewer the connectors, the better in my book, so I’m keeping that in mind while running the supplies. This will take a couple weekends to finish, and then on to out side water supply from the meter. 500′ of trench for the water service to the barn!



Here’s the Pex Manifolds, hot on left and cold on the right. The blue tube on the right is clamped off to get the bend out of it. It connects to the bottom of the cold manifold and is the water supply into the building. I built them in wooden boxes because they really need to stay in the wall and I wanted to have easy access to them to turn off the individual valves and/or check for leaks, etc. Not something you want to bury in the wall. Note: the short length of red pex is just there to test the fit, I haven’t lost my mind.

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Here’s the whole house shutoff valve and the 50 lb pressure regulator. The line into the building is 3/4″ and will stay that size to and from the water heater.

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Here are the supplies to the washing machine box. The bend radius around the corner of the wall was too tight, so we used 90’s here. I’m waiting to crimp all the bands on the lines until everything is in place and good, Then I’ll have a crimp party and we’ll test the system for leaks.

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Finally we used cement backerboard and rocked the tub surround. Everywhere there’s backerboard, there will be 12×12 tile.


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[Jim Becker]

I've become a big fan of PEX and it's all I use now when I need to do repairs in our home, especially since we have slightly acidic water and even type-L copper will eventually pin-hole. I would have used it in our addition, but in 2008, there was still a local ordinance that forbade it. :( Fortunately, that's no longer the case.

[Jefferey Scott]

I've got almost everything hooked up with pex except for the water heater. I still need to trench the run from the meter to the building, but the weather has not been cooperating, so onto drywall this week. Below are some random pictures of the pex install and some Friday night shots of the property and a new drone video flyover of the property.

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https://youtu.be/Cg2zj6ud4QU

[Jim Becker]

That manifold looks really nice.

And what's not to like about what's outside? Beautiful area.

[Jefferey Scott]

Thanks Jim.

As soon as I get this turkey finished, I hope to share some woodworking content. I'm chomping at the bit to get my shop finished and my machines and tools moved in and operational. Unfortunately, we've got to have a place to live in first.

I'm planning on what to sheath the walls of the shop with right now. I was going to go with metal liner panel and a 4' wide plywood band laid horizontally around the whole interior with metal on top and bottom, but now I'm thinking maybe just going all wood. T1-11 5/8" ply is 21 bucks a sheet here and that is about the same price as "plan A". I could go drywall also, but I'm not keen on that much mudding and taping. I would need approximately 84 sheets of 4x8 plywood to complete.

Just not sure what I want to do yet. Thoughts anyone?

[Jim Becker]

Half of my shop has T1-11 panels for the walls and I like the look. You'll want to decide before you move stuff in if you want it "finished" or not...it's easier to do that if you can spray and spraying is a lot more pleasant if there's nothing in the way to "mask off" other than covering the floor. I left mine bare. In this photo, you can see how it darkened up a bit over time...that closed up window area is "new" material.

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[Jefferey Scott]

I think that's the direction I'm heading now Jim. T1-11 mounted vertically. I've got 12 ft (or almost) ceilings and I'm going to put a "wainscoat" of 4' boards along the bottom and full 8 ft sheets on top of them. I'll hide the horizontal seam with the 1x4's. As far as paint, I'm not swayed either way at this point. I like the naked look as well as painted. As you suggest, if I paint, I'll do before I move anything else in.

Good suggestions, thanks!

[James Biddle]

We did a similar thing, but mounted the full sheet below and the cut sheet above. We cut the 1x4 on a 45 and had an instant French cleat 8' high all around the shop to hang things.

[Jim Becker]

We did a similar thing, but mounted the full sheet below and the cut sheet above. We cut the 1x4 on a 45 and had an instant French cleat 8' high all around the shop to hang things.
This is likely how I would do things in the same situation...the uninterrupted full sheets on the bottom for me, too. The cleat idea is stellar, too!

[Jefferey Scott]

We did a similar thing, but mounted the full sheet below and the cut sheet above. We cut the 1x4 on a 45 and had an instant French cleat 8' high all around the shop to hang things.


Neat idea James!

[Tom M King]

Just another option to think about: In our dog room, I used the hardboard equivalent of T111. It has a fake woodgrain texture, but the good thing about it is that it comes primed, so if you're going to paint the walls anyway, all you have to do is nail it up, and spray it. I think it costs about the same as T111, but what's sold around here as T111 is really rough, and has a lot of footballs on the face. While this stuff has the texture, the surface is very smooth to the touch.

To install this board, I just hand nailed it with 6cc nails, hit the nail heads with oil based primer, and sprayed the walls with an airless sprayer. You have to look close to find the nails, but if you need to find a stud, a stud finder is not required.

I avoid sheetrock. I have also used a smooth faced version that has V joints every 8", but I had to buy a whole bundle of that.

http://starbornhavanese.com/images/DSCN5730.JPG

[Mel Fulks]

I used the stuff Tom posted about in our basement stair well. Builder left the insulation uncovered. The coated surface is pretty tough.

[Jim Becker]

Tom, what's the thickness of the primed hardboard product you show? That would be material for a shop wall.

[Tom M King]

It's been a number of years since I built that addition on our house, so sorry, I can't give an exact thickness. I'm pretty sure it's a little less than a half inch, but could easily be wrong. It's on the shelves in the plywood, and siding section in Lowes, and probably Home Depot. Lowes even had a couple of choices the last time I looked. It's the same density as hardboard (Masonite), so fairly heavy.

I ended up hand nailing it because any kind of gun leaves little craters to deal with later, whereas the sinkers finish flush with the surface, so you're done once it's nailed up.

As with any hardboard, it's not really made for holding nails, other than hanging pictures, but with the nail heads find-able, with your face close to the surface, and being right beside one of the vertical grooves, studs are easy to find with your hands full.

Everyone that's seen it has commented on how nice it looks. I know fake woodgrain is not the most desired surface in a shop, but it looks many times better than OSB, or plywood.

Pick through the stack with a helper, and make sure you don't get one with a bruised edge. The meeting edges are rabbeted, but the thin rabbet looks pretty vulnerable until you get it on the wall, so careful handing is needed all the way to the wall.

It's a two person job putting it up. Start with the first nail at the top of the overlapping rabbeted edge. Use a little spacer block under it, to start with, and then take the block out after the first couple of nails are driven home. Work your way down from that top corner, and it will come out nice and flat against the studs. I have seen some put up with bulges from a poorly planned nailing order.

I also used it in two walk-in closets in the same addition as the dog room. It's really nice to put something up, and be done with it so quickly.

Ceilings in the dogroom, and closets were also anti-sheetrock. Beaded board plywood, with MDF covers to all the joints in the beaded sheet edges. The ceilings were a little more trouble than the walls, since many feet of MDF edges to caulk, but still better for me than finishing sheetrock overhead.

http://starbornhavanese.com/images/DSCN5733.JPG

[Tom M King]

Here's the room with the smooth stuff on the walls. It was a lot more trouble to put up with no nail holes to show on the smooth surface. I forget the manufacturer, but it's one of the common, major ones. The coffers have MDO panels. If someone didn't like the fake woodgrain, this might be an option, if you don't mind the extra work that nail holes require, or rig up a way to glue it up.

This room has a 10' ceiling, and the vertical v-joint board is above a 3' high wainscoting.

Did I say that I hate sheetrock?

http://historic-house-restoration.com/images/ceilings_004_1024x681_.jpg

[Mel Fulks]

I just checked the thickness of the scraps ,3/8 inch. I think it's called Smart Side

[Tom M King]

"Smart Side" sounds familiar. Whatever the thickness, it's stiffer than 3/8's plywood, or 1/2" sheetrock. I put it on 16" centers.

I looked for the smooth, v-joint panels online, and couldn't find it. If anyone needs to know, I still have a few sheets up in the loft of the barn, so I can look at a sticker on the back of one.

[Jim Becker]

I actually used the thinner T1-11 in the half of the shop that sports it (because of attractive cost) and honestly, if I were doing it again, I would have gone with thicker material. Since it's a concrete block structure, I only have "half-stud" firing for walls behind it (insulated) and it's been a little "wavy" over time in some places because it's so flexible.

Tom, you're correct that it's called LP SmartSide. It's .31" thick, according to Home Depot's web site and sells for $32 a sheet. They have primed T1-11 in half-inch for $39.

[Jefferey Scott]

I wouldn't mind the Smartside or similar material. The main reason I thought T1-11, is that there is a building supply in town that sells it for $20.99 a sheet for 5/8". That's considerably lower than the big box stores. With 84 sheets to buy, I've got to make the money stretch as far as I can. My original choice long ago was OSB. Nothing wrong with that, but I wanted to upgrade the look a bit, as aesthetics are important to me to a point. Sort of a balancing act between price and looks. I do need to go look at this supply house's material to make sure it isn't junk.

Thanks for all the ideas Tom, Mel, and Jim.


On another subject, I'm ready to rock! 26 sheets of 12 ft and 18 sheets of 8 ft put a bit of a strain on the Tahoe but we made it

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[Jim Becker]

That's a REALLY good price for that T1-11. No brainer, IMHO.

[Jefferey Scott]

That's a REALLY good price for that T1-11. No brainer, IMHO.

That was my thinking too. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the 8 ft high french cleat on the walls to hide the horizontal seam. That just makes more and more sense now.

Y'all have some awesome ideas!

[James Biddle]

That was my thinking too. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with the 8 ft high french cleat on the walls to hide the horizontal seam. That just makes more and more sense now.

Y'all have some awesome ideas!

It was easier to use regular plywood between the I-beams (make a template and jigsaw out each side) since we painted the beams and ceiling white anyway. The French cleat is 8’ up. We used a 1x at the beneath the full sheet to handle the transition to concrete and to provide a nice level ledge for the T-1-11 to rest on for install. We used a wire mold around the outside to make it easy to reconfigure and mounted it above four feet from the floor as to not interfere with leaning plywood. I’ll add a pic later.

[James Biddle]

Here's the pic...
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It was easier to use regular plywood between the I-beams (make a template and jigsaw out each side) since we painted the beams and ceiling white anyway. The French cleat is 8’ up. We used a 1x at the beneath the full sheet to handle the transition to concrete and to provide a nice level ledge for the T-1-11 to rest on for install. We used a wire mold around the outside to make it easy to reconfigure and mounted it above four feet from the floor as to not interfere with leaning plywood. I’ll add a pic later.

[Charles Bechle]

There's a great forum called Garage Journal with good advice from knowledgeable people. Check out the section devoted entirely to lighting and electrical. There's a lady in Texas named April Wilkerson (who is by the way, very easy on the eyes) who has a YouTube channel devoted to woodworking. She's building herself a shop now very similar to yours - 1/2 woodworking - 1/2 metal fab. Here's a link to her shop build videos: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=april+wilkerson+shop+build. Good luck with your build!

[Jefferey Scott]

44 sheets of drywall picked up, loaded and unloaded in the barn, we were ready to start sheet rocking. Even the “lightweight” stuff seems heavy. Most of it is 12′ long sheets to minimize joints, 8 ft for the utility room and some 8 ft moisture control blueboard for the bathroom. Since we aren’t going to put drywall on the ceiling, opting for galvanized metal panels instead, I hesitated getting a drywall lift. But I surely am happy I did. Renting a lift for two weeks was $140. I found one on Amazon for $139 that got decent reviews so we now own a lift.
It’s helpful with the upper sheets of drywall, hoisting them up to the 10 ft level and holding them while we screwed them in. I even drywalled solo and thanks to the lift was able to manage pretty easily. This past weekend we got 22 sheets up, about halfway done. We will finish hanging the rock next weekend and then subsequent weekends will be spent mudding, taping, sanding, and repeat. Then I’ll spray a knock down mud texture on the walls and they will be ready for paint. After that, we will install the galvanized low rib panels on the ceiling and I’m sure use the lift for that too.

I need all the help I can get, so I used my trusty B&D Crossfire laser to locate studs.

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And here’s the $139 wonder

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[Jefferey Scott]

It was easier to use regular plywood between the I-beams (make a template and jigsaw out each side) since we painted the beams and ceiling white anyway. The French cleat is 8’ up. We used a 1x at the beneath the full sheet to handle the transition to concrete and to provide a nice level ledge for the T-1-11 to rest on for install. We used a wire mold around the outside to make it easy to reconfigure and mounted it above four feet from the floor as to not interfere with leaning plywood. I’ll add a pic later.

James, thanks for the picture, your shop looks good. That's the look I'm going for.



There's a great forum called Garage Journal with good advice from knowledgeable people. Check out the section devoted entirely to lighting and electrical. There's a lady in Texas named April Wilkerson (who is by the way, very easy on the eyes) who has a YouTube channel devoted to woodworking. She's building herself a shop now very similar to yours - 1/2 woodworking - 1/2 metal fab. Here's a link to her shop build videos: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=april+wilkerson+shop+build. Good luck with your build!

Charles, I also post on Garage Journal and get some good advice there too. As far as April Wilkerson, I follow her on Instagram. She's an awesome lady with some great skills. Her new shop looks to be a really nice big space.

Thanks for checking in guys !

[Jim Becker]

April Wilkerson just posted the wall and ceiling video for her new shop project on YouTube...you might be interested in the ceiling part because she used a corrugated material for that and seeing how they put it up could be helpful to you, although her ceiling is a bit higher than yours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmmfUf_zKCA

[Scott Buehler]

I just purchased a dry wall lift from ebay also for125.00. I figure I'll turn around and sell it for a bit less when I'm done :) your shop is looking great!

[Jefferey Scott]

April Wilkerson just posted the wall and ceiling video for her new shop project on YouTube...you might be interested in the ceiling part because she used a corrugated material for that and seeing how they put it up could be helpful to you, although her ceiling is a bit higher than yours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmmfUf_zKCA

Interesting material and she put it up pretty quick. I'm going to have the metal supplier cut our corrugated metal to size for each room to minimize any cutting on my part. April's shop is awesome. I'm thinking about walling off the metal shop with higher walls now to contain the mess that metal produces. I like her design between the two shops. Not sure what size building it is, but it's big.



I just purchased a dry wall lift from ebay also for125.00. I figure I'll turn around and sell it for a bit less when I'm done :) your shop is looking great!


Thanks for checking in Scott! I may sell mine too when all is said and done. It's nice to be able to do so. I also bought a drywall screw gun, which sped up the process a bit more. I may hold on to that.

[Jim Becker]

I think she mentions the size in the early build videos, but yes, it's a large "dream shop". We should all be so lucky! She's done well by herself with her videos and sponsorships and is enjoyable to watch. She's also not afraid to dive in to really hard work, including unfamiliar things, which is something we should all try to emulate within our individual capabilities.

I think that your inclination to sub-divide for the metal work is very worthy, both for mess control and honestly, safety relative to fire hazards, etc.

[Jefferey Scott]

I think she mentions the size in the early build videos, but yes, it's a large "dream shop". We should all be so lucky! She's done well by herself with her videos and sponsorships and is enjoyable to watch. She's also not afraid to dive in to really hard work, including unfamiliar things, which is something we should all try to emulate within our individual capabilities.

I think that your inclination to sub-divide for the metal work is very worthy, both for mess control and honestly, safety relative to fire hazards, etc.


You got me thinking on the metal shop Jim. Maybe it would be better to sheath the walls with metal liner panel down that end of the shop. Lots of sparks from grinding and welding happening there. I know the movable walls that I had planned to build to section off that area are to be covered in 29 gauge metal panels. I need to think this one over some more. I can see safety benefits in doing it this way.

Thanks for your input.

[Jim Becker]

I was drilling holes in 3/16" steel yesterday at my DP in support of a retaining wall project I'm working to complete and the level of smoking hot metal chips, even with continual "cooling" with WD-40 was amazing. That's about the extent of the metal working I do, but it would give me pause to surely separate metal working from woodworking. I'd not be so concerned about the walls, honestly. Rather, ti's keeping the "hot mess" separated from the wood dust and chips ("kindling") in my mind.

[Jefferey Scott]

I can officially say I dislike drywall as much as plumbing. But it’s done now. We textured the finished drywall yesterday and it will be ready to prime next weekend. I’ve bought a PVA drywall primer which I’ll spray with the airless sprayer.

We are going to the metal supplier next Friday and buying the pre-cut ceiling panels. We’ll install those as soon as the primer dries. The finish paint job will be rolled on to eliminate the possibility of overspray on the new metal. That’s my wife’s specialty, she is the paint master. I’ll be installing light fixtures and fans while she’s doing that. Also putting in the doors so we can close in the apartment in prep for the mini-split install.

Here are some pictures showing what “sweat equity” really is:

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We also closed up the outside shop facing wall of the apartment. All 40 ft of it now has drywall. The drywall will not be the finished wall, we will pull metal wainscoting and plywood over it in a few months. Here's a quick video of that:

https://youtu.be/8Esz77vWpO0

[Jim Becker]

Yes, drywall work, um..."bites".... It's a necessary evil, however. 'Glad you're making progress!

[glenn bradley]

Again, my jealousy knows no bounds. Of course I'm not the one doing all the work :). Its funny that I hate plumbing much more than painting or drywall but, I will pay someone to paint and drywall and curse my way through the plumbing. The oddities of the human mind . . .

[Jefferey Scott]

Yes, drywall work, um..."bites".... It's a necessary evil, however. 'Glad you're making progress!

Thanks Jim! You feel my pain :)


Again, my jealousy knows no bounds. Of course I'm not the one doing all the work :). Its funny that I hate plumbing much more than painting or drywall but, I will pay someone to paint and drywall and curse my way through the plumbing. The oddities of the human mind . . .

Glenn, I will say that using PEX for the first time, plumbing is much better than it used to be. Not one leak during my pressure test. That makes me happy.

[Jim Becker]

Glenn, I will say that using PEX for the first time, plumbing is much better than it used to be. Not one leak during my pressure test. That makes me happy.

I previously used PEX for a few repairs, but recently re-did the whole back and forth runs in the basement for the water heater to eliminate copper that was constantly pin-holing. (Acidic water) It makes me truly sad that at the time our addition was built, the township had a specific ordinance forbidding PEX, despite acidic water being common due to the limestone outcropping under the whole area. Someday, all that copper that's embeded in spray foam is going to become (someone else's) (a) nightmare! I'll never use copper again for any work I do here, that's for sure. PEX is fast, easy, and more like network wiring. :) :D

[Jefferey Scott]

This weekend was cut short by illness, so my son and I had one day to hang as much of the ceiling and prime the newly textured drywall as possible. I primed early in the morning with a PVA primer and even with 5 gallons, I ran out about a half room from completion. I sprayed the primer with our Graco X5 airless, which I find to be a time saver.

On to the ceiling. We started with the two smallest rooms and hung the 8 foot long panels in the utility and bath rooms. It went well. Now to the living area with its 20 foot long panels. This operation took a bit more time, and even using the drywall lift, was a formidable job. I had all the panels cut to length by the supplier. They all were cut 1 inch shorter than the actual length of the room. Even with this measure, we scraped up the walls just a little bit. This is the reason I wanted to install these panels before final paint
.
My wife will be rolling the finish coat on all of the walls. She’s in charge of the paint and the color choices. A job she does well, and a great help to me.

Next weekend we will be starting the Ductless Mini Split install. A large truck is on its way to the house as we speak with a pallet full of A/C and Heat components.

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[Van Huskey]

What material are you using for the ceiling?

Looking good BTW.

[Jefferey Scott]

What material are you using for the ceiling?

Looking good BTW.

Thanks Van. I'm using 29 gauge "low rib" galvalume siding. It's used on the sides and roofs of pole barns, although usually a painted finish. The galvalume is 50 cents a running ft cheaper than painted, and we like that it brings somewhat of a "farm house" look to our tiny house. It also goes with practically any paint color.

Thanks for checking in!

[Jefferey Scott]

We have completed our part of the mini split install, including the two air handlers (inside units) on the walls in the bedroom and living room. Now we need to get an HVAC technician out to turn up the system for our warranty to be valid. I could buy the tools and probably do it myself, but I would like a valid warranty, so we’ll leave it to the pros.

I also put my new Klein 6 3/8″ hole saw to work and drilled holes for the 6 inch recessed lighting cans. Also cut out for the ceiling fan boxes and bath fan. We’ll put in the fixtures soon, but next up on the schedule is tile, tile, tile. Bathtub surround, bathroom floor, utility floor, and half the living area (around where the kitchenette will be). We scored some nice looking 12×12 tile for 49 cents a foot and it should fit the bill. Before we do the floors, I’m rolling on a coat of Redgard crack isolation membrane and in the bathtub surround it’ll be used as a waterproofing membrane. It’s very much like a roll on rubber coating and very versatile.

I also mounted the 36″ exterior doors on the bedroom and living area. These will provide insulation and added security to the living quarters. They also seal well and will help somewhat with dust control from the shop. Started trimming out the window sills with 3/8 BC sanded plywood. These will get painted and the material is budget friendly. The final trim will most likely be 3 1/2′ MDF , but I’m not totally decided on that. Whatever it is, it needs to meet a tight budget.

That’s it for now, thanks for following.

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[Jefferey Scott]

We had an HVAC technician come out and "start up" the mini split as needed for the warranty on our system. They made the final copper lineset connections to the outside unit and pulled a vacuum on the system and released the freon stored in the condenser into the system. We turned both air handlers on and we were cold and down to the set temperature within 10 minutes. It wasn't a particularly hot day, but you can tell this system works very well.


I also installed all 9 recessed can lights in the metal ceiling and connected the wiring. Once I get the switches connected, I should be able to turn up some lights in the rooms.


Another task was tiling. I tiled the bathtub surround with 12 x 12 floor tile we got from the big box store for next to nothing. It looks good and went up easily. Prior to the tile, I rolled on two coats of RedGard waterproofing membrane to seal the bath/shower surround up tight. I was going to start tiling the floor, but decided to put that on hold, as there are still some activities to work on that could potentially damage the finish floor. We will hold off to near the end for that job.


We also had a beautiful morning sky just before thunderstorms moved in. The show only lasted about two minutes, but I managed to snap a picture before it was gone.

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[Malcolm Schweizer]

I'm loving this build. The split units were a great choice. Very efficient and will keep it nice and cool.

[Jim Becker]

I'm really tickled by how efficient and fast these MiniSplit systems are...so glad I put one in my shop. That unit of yours is going to keep things very comfortable when you need AC or heat! I like the larger tile, BTW. It looks nice.

[Van Huskey]

Great progress! Did you get your mini split from alpinehomeair? Keep us informed about how you like the Blueridge I have been eyeing them based on price.

[Jefferey Scott]

I'm loving this build. The split units were a great choice. Very efficient and will keep it nice and cool.

Thanks for following along!


I'm really tickled by how efficient and fast these MiniSplit systems are...so glad I put one in my shop. That unit of yours is going to keep things very comfortable when you need AC or heat! I like the larger tile, BTW. It looks nice.

Thanks for checking in Jim!


Great progress! Did you get your mini split from alpinehomeair? Keep us informed about how you like the Blueridge I have been eyeing them based on price.

Yes I did Van. Great experience. It was free shipping, plus I paid $25 for liftgate service. The freight guy rolled it right into my garage. It was palatalized securely and had no damage. Not a mark on it. And a breeze to install.

[Jefferey Scott]

To go with the metal ceiling panels, we chose to use 2 inch angle iron to bridge the gap between the wall and ceiling. This was a quick and relatively inexpensive way to finish this piece of the project off. We decided to leave the metal natural and not paint it or otherwise treat it. Except in the bathroom, where moisture in the air would prematurely rust it. I applied several clear enamel coats out of a spray can. We don’t necessarily care or worry about the metal getting a patina or even some light rust as it ages, that’s the beauty of modern industrial architecture.
Another advantage over a wood molding is that metal comes in 20 ft or longer lengths. Wood comes in 16 ft maximum lengths. With the longer metal, there is no splicing of molding in the middle of the room. The metal also gave us a space to pack in rubber and foam insulation to close the air gap in the seam between the wall and ceiling.

Not to disappoint our wood fans, all the rest of the molding will be rough cedar, I'm just going to nail it up and call it good.
Here are some pictures of the process:

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[Jim Becker]

The angle iron trim makes for a very interesting look that's in-tune with things!

[Jefferey Scott]

It certainly is not "traditional". :) We wanted something a bit different, and I think you're right, it's right in-tune with the theme. Thanks for checking in!

[Jefferey Scott]

The Shouse or apartment area of the barn is now done minus a few punch list minor items. The septic system was installed yesterday and we now have indoor plumbing and that is a God send. We will be moving in and living full time in a couple of weeks.

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https://youtu.be/3ziaKYFCHms

[Jim Becker]

Congratulations, Jeff!! It will be nice for you to be living on-site going forward for sure. 'Looking forward to seeing things "get cozy" and your ability to start focusing on the shop side of things!

[Jefferey Scott]

Congratulations, Jeff!! It will be nice for you to be living on-site going forward for sure. 'Looking forward to seeing things "get cozy" and your ability to start focusing on the shop side of things!

Yes sir! Now the REAL fun begins as my focus turns to the shop and getting it 1) Organized 2) Rearranged 3) Interior walls framed 4) Interior walls covered. Also a plethora of electric run and some more lights and fans up. This will take the better part of six months to a year, as budget was blown on the apartment, but we'll get there!

Thanks for checking in Jim!

[Jim Becker]

Take your time on this next phase and very carefully think through workflow, including leaving space OPEN for flexible usage. (assembly, finishing, temp storage) You have a totally blank slate here to work with...and most of us would "kill" for that!

[Jefferey Scott]

Take your time on this next phase and very carefully think through workflow, including leaving space OPEN for flexible usage. (assembly, finishing, temp storage) You have a totally blank slate here to work with...and most of us would "kill" for that!

Will do, good suggestions. The remaining 2700 sq ft will be divided up with 800 sq ft going to metal shop and 1900 sq ft going to the woodshop and general usage area. I'm going to wall off the metal shop to a degree to try to keep that grunge away from the wood side. This is the fun part of the build now. I'm looking forward to it!

[Jim Becker]

April Wilkerson did the same kind of division between the wood and metal sides of her new shop building. I think that's a good idea, not just because of the "grunge", but because it's an extra barrier against sparks getting to ignitable materials like dust and chips.

[Jefferey Scott]

April Wilkerson did the same kind of division between the wood and metal sides of her new shop building. I think that's a good idea, not just because of the "grunge", but because it's an extra barrier against sparks getting to ignitable materials like dust and chips.


Good point Jim. I am embarking on another shop project in the barn. I've wanted to build a storage loft for seasonal stuff and housewares we don't have room for yet. I also would like to have a dedicated paint/spray room. I decided to combine both ideas and build a 12 x 16 traditionally constructed room that has a 7 ft ceiling. On top of the ceiling will be a platform for storage. I'll use 2x8x12 rafters on the room and sheath the upper floor with OSB.

The paint room itself I'm planning to build with 2x4's 24 oc and sheath with drywall inside and outside the room. I'm hoping to get it sealed up good to reduce the amount of vapor or overspray outside the room. It will encompass one of the 3x5 windows in the barn, so there will be ventilation and the ability to put a fan in the window to draw out overspray and fumes.

The ceiling is kinda low, but it will primarily be used to finish furniture and metal fab pieces, so that's not a huge deal to me. I'm on a budget, so it's got to come in under 1k, I think I can do it for $800.

Any thoughts or tips from the group?

Here's a very basic floorplan of the shop areas:

394941

[Jim Becker]

Ventilation for your finish room has to be done correctly, especially if you will be working with solvent-based products, both because of VOC and because of flammability. Don't assume a simple window fan is going to do the job...it will not. Other than that, you will enjoy having a dedicated finishing space for sure!

[Jefferey Scott]

Ventilation for your finish room has to be done correctly, especially if you will be working with solvent-based products, both because of VOC and because of flammability. Don't assume a simple window fan is going to do the job...it will not. Other than that, you will enjoy having a dedicated finishing space for sure!


Agree on the fan, looking at options for explosion proof models. Also looking at ventilation design. I've got an exterior wall I can modify, should the window not be the best route. For the interim, rustoleum oil based is about as caustic a finish that I use. I mostly shoot water based products on all my furniture. (I like Target Coatings).

[Peter Christensen]

Unless there is a reason I don't see like electrical or other utility access in that corner, my sugestion would be to move it to the bottom right corner in the drawing. Mainly because you only have to build 2 walls, saving on some materials.

[Jefferey Scott]

Unless there is a reason I don't see like electrical or other utility access in that corner, my sugestion would be to move it to the bottom right corner in the drawing. Mainly because you only have to build 2 walls, saving on some materials.


Hi Peter,

That corner of the shop will be the Metal fab area. I'd like to shy away from that end of the barn because it gets pretty dirty down there. I will also have some 220v circuits down in that corner for the welders and plasma cutter. Its a good idea, I give you that. I also have the service panel in the middle of the back wall, which is dictating the paint booth be off center and more towards the far end of the Wood shop. Not the most ideal place, but no floor space will go unused, I guarantee that. :)

[Jefferey Scott]

Hi guys,

I finally got my tools unpacked and things setup in the shop enough to make it functional. This is the initial setup. I have lots of electric to run still. I have many more lights to wire up and hang still, but at least I can get some work done now in an organized fashion. In Feb-March, I will be framing out the interior walls and covering them with barn metal, much like the paint room you can see in the pictures. The Woodshop is 1920 sq ft or 48 x 40, minus the paint room which is 200 sq ft. The metal shop is 800 sq ft or 20 x 40. Here's a few shots of where it stands right now:

400043400044400045400046400047400048

[Jim Becker]

Jealousy abounds...wow...space!

[eugene thomas]

Nice shop. So what's the story on the trafic light...

[Jefferey Scott]

Nice shop. So what's the story on the trafic light...

Bought it off a guy on Facebook who was selling old city lights that were replaced with new models. I guess he works at a company that buys the old ones when they are updated. It's an LED light though, so not sure how old it really is. Just thought it would look cool in the shop, paid 50 bucks for it.

[Jefferey Scott]

Jealousy abounds...wow...space!

Yes sir! I've been waiting a longgg time for this. Happy now that it's here.

[Jefferey Scott]

Hi all,
A quick planning update on the shops. For quite a bit now, I had planned to finish off the interior walls with barn sheet metal, floor to ceiling. I've had a slight setback to the budget and have had to rethink the interior surfaces. It looks like now I'll probably be putting up 7/16" OSB and either painting it or just leaving it as is. Not as aesthetically appealing, but I actually think it has a couple advantages such as sound deadening over metal surfaces, and of course cost. Sheets here in NE Oklahoma are going for $8.55 a piece currently and I can cover the whole interior for about $600 vs. $1250 for barn metal. That doesn't include the cost of the additional framing needed, but its money saved none the less.

Not sure if I want to paint it or not. I've read countless threads on the subject on forums everywhere, and I still don't have a clear preference.

Just wanted to hop on and report.

Thanks for reading!

[Bruce Page]

It’s personal preference to paint OSB or not. I Personally don’t like the look of raw OSB and would paint it. Painting it a light color would also make that beautiful shop brighter. JMO

[Frank Pratt]

After living with unpainted OSB for a bit, I painted it semigloss white & much prefer it. Consider using 11/16" for the increased stiffness & screw holding ability. You can hang just about anything you'd want from it. I think painted OSB would be a huge upgrade over barn metal.

[Jim Becker]

I agree with painting the OSB...not only can it brighten things up, it also help lock some of the "splinters" down a little. OSB was never intended to be a finish/exposed material and it's very prone to chipping off and splinters. I agree with Frank about the thickness. Use the heavier material "where it counts" and the thinner in areas, such as up-high, where it doesn't matter. It's a slight compromise in the "low cost" aspect, of course.

[Peter Christensen]

My shop is lined with 7/16”, or whatever the metric equivalent is, OSB. It isn’t painted. I really wish I had painted it before moving in but other stuff got in the way. Painting now involves moving everything to one end of the shop to paint an area. Then moving everything to another area and so on until the walls and ceiling are done. Not looking forward to that. The only thing I have going for me are 8 windows and lots of LED lights to overcome the light absorbing OSB. Paint it while the shop is empty if you can.

[Jefferey Scott]

It’s personal preference to paint OSB or not. I Personally don’t like the look of raw OSB and would paint it. Painting it a light color would also make that beautiful shop brighter. JMO

Absolutely. The more light, the better!


After living with unpainted OSB for a bit, I painted it semigloss white & much prefer it. Consider using 11/16" for the increased stiffness & screw holding ability. You can hang just about anything you'd want from it. I think painted OSB would be a huge upgrade over barn metal.

Thanks for the suggestion on the thicker stuff. Currently in my area, 7/16 is $8.55, 5/8 is $12.21, 3/4 is $19.48. So 5/8" is probably the upper limit, budget-wise.



I agree with painting the OSB...not only can it brighten things up, it also help lock some of the "splinters" down a little. OSB was never intended to be a finish/exposed material and it's very prone to chipping off and splinters. I agree with Frank about the thickness. Use the heavier material "where it counts" and the thinner in areas, such as up-high, where it doesn't matter. It's a slight compromise in the "low cost" aspect, of course.

I'm planning to install the sheets horizontally in 3 rows. I have 11 ft of wall height to cover, so I'll maybe put the 3 ft wide pieces at the bottom and the middle section could be the 5/8" for hanging stuff from 3-7' off the ground. That might work really well.
Good idea Jim.



My shop is lined with 7/16”, or whatever the metric equivalent is, OSB. It isn’t painted. I really wish I had painted it before moving in but other stuff got in the way. Painting now involves moving everything to one end of the shop to paint an area. Then moving everything to another area and so on until the walls and ceiling are done. Not looking forward to that. The only thing I have going for me are 8 windows and lots of LED lights to overcome the light absorbing OSB. Paint it while the shop is empty if you can.

I think I'm definitely going to paint it, and will do so before I move everything back into the walls. Right now, I can get to the walls relatively easy, as a lot of stuff is on casters. Thanks Peter.