Ripping by hand.

[Chris Hachet]

I have found that I can rip much more accurately with the wood held to my lower (about 31 inches high) bench held via hold fasts than on a saw bench. I am only using a saw bench for larger and more crude rip cuts. Does anyone else here rip by hand with the board overhanging the front of the bench?

Regards,

Chris

[Brian Holcombe]

Often I rip with the board upright in a vise, second after that is the sawbench....depends on the rip.

[Chris Hachet]

Interesting, I never thought to try ripping a board upright like that, but it does make a certain amount of sense.

[David Eisenhauer]

Upright is easier on the back and usually the cut line is more visible, however you usually need to adjust the elevation of the board being cut as you proceed so as to avoid vibration when the cut is too far away from the vise. Main thing is to be able to freely stroke the saw to its full length without any obstruction at all.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

For accuracy (tenons or other joinery cuts) you want it on the bench where it can be held firmly I think. If the piece is very small, it also is better to have it clamped somehow. For most everything else that I think of as ripping (ripping a 2 x 8 in half for example) I personally prefer the saw bench. You can generally rip something to within 1/16th on a saw bench, and then quickly bring it to final dimension with a plane.

Roy Underhill did a segment on ripping where he demonstrated three methods of holding the work (for large stuff, not tenons or things of that nature). One was clamped on the near edge of the bench. One used your knee to hold the board on a saw bench, and the other had you sitting on the board on a saw bench, and using the saw with kind of a two handed grip. All three can work once you figure out how to best hold the saw and get your eye aligned with the mark, and I think a lot just depends on personal preference.

[Chris Hachet]

For accuracy (tenons or other joinery cuts) you want it on the bench where it can be held firmly I think. If the piece is very small, it also is better to have it clamped somehow. For most everything else that I think of as ripping (ripping a 2 x 8 in half for example) I personally prefer the saw bench. You can generally rip something to within 1/16th on a saw bench, and then quickly bring it to final dimension with a plane.

Roy Underhill did a segment on ripping where he demonstrated three methods of holding the work (for large stuff, not tenons or things of that nature). One was clamped on the near edge of the bench. One used your knee to hold the board on a saw bench, and the other had you sitting on the board on a saw bench, and using the saw with kind of a two handed grip. All three can work once you figure out how to best hold the saw and get your eye aligned with the mark, and I think a lot just depends on personal preference.

I will check Roy Underhill video out. Was feeling bad that my rip cuts were off by 1/16 of an inch, but I guess I am getting close enough.

[Jim Koepke]

Here is how I have done it:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167535-Old-Saw-Ripping-Some-Ash

BTW, I no longer wear suspenders, back to a belt. Had to cut a new notch yesterday since my weight has been getting down.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

I will check Roy Underhill video out. Was feeling bad that my rip cuts were off by 1/16 of an inch, but I guess I am getting close enough.

I don't know if 1/16 is something you "should" feel bad about or not. As a hobbyist, I am just looking to get it close enough that I can true and square it with a plane without spending all day doing so. As long as the 1/16 is on the waste side of the line, I don't see a reason to lost a lot of sleep over it.

[Chris Hachet]

Here is how I have done it:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?167535-Old-Saw-Ripping-Some-Ash

BTW, I no longer wear suspenders, back to a belt. Had to cut a new notch yesterday since my weight has been getting down.

jtk

Thanks for then link. I need to build a second saw bench and try it this way.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Jim, as usual, has good advice. The two "saw bench" positions Underhill demonstrates are in Jim's pictures. If you are worried about cutting yourself sitting down, you can saw the other way, with the teeth pointing away from you.

[Brian Holcombe]

1/16" is great, leaves room to clean up with a jointer or try plane.

[Tom M King]

Draw your line with a fine tipped pencil. I use a no.3 or 4. It shouldn't be any trouble staying within a sixteenth. The biggest trouble I see hobbyists having sawing is overcoming reluctance.

I heard Bob Ballard give a talk once that included talking about taking Prince Charles diving in the North Sea. Prince Charles was sitting on the edge of the boat while the crew was strapping weight on him. I think he said they were putting something like 110 pounds on him because he had a thick wetsuit under a drysuit. Prince Charles said, " I calculated last night that I would need 55 pounds??" Bob Ballard said, "Yeah, that first 55 pounds is to overcome buoyancy. That other 55 pounds is to overcome reluctance."

Going slow with a rip saw is about the same thing. Strap on that other 55 pounds, and have at it....with a sharp saw of course.

[Chris Hachet]

I don't know if 1/16 is something you "should" feel bad about or not. As a hobbyist, I am just looking to get it close enough that I can true and square it with a plane without spending all day doing so. As long as the 1/16 is on the waste side of the line, I don't see a reason to lost a lot of sleep over it.


I think tom's post about reluctance had a lot of value to it....I tend to over analyze things.

[steven c newman]

Let's see, I do have a saw bench, and can use the main bench as well.....but....first I need a better rip saw. Saws I have only go down to 7ppi. I do know where a 5ppi D-8 is......it will need the top horn fixed, and the teeth resharpened....I also need the $10 to go BUY the saw....( secret location..shhhhh!)

[Chris Hachet]

Let's see, I do have a saw bench, and can use the main bench as well.....but....first I need a better rip saw. Saws I have only go down to 7ppi. I do know where a 5ppi D-8 is......it will need the top horn fixed, and the teeth resharpened....I also need the $10 to go BUY the saw....( secret location..shhhhh!)

If they have two.....I have a saw with about 5 PPI, works good in thicker stock.

[Jim Koepke]

In the post of mine if my memory is good the sawing line was made with a chalk line.

Seldom wavy, usually straight.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

In the post of mine if my memory is good the sawing line was made with a chalk line.


If you are dealing with a board that does not have a straight edge to begin with, you will definitely want to use the chalk line or some other method of making sure your initial mark is straight. The first couple of times I tried to rip something I ended up with a bowed piece, or a piece that was wider at one end than at the other. The reason of course is because I was trying to mark with a pencil and combination square off of a face that was not straight, so my mark simply replicated the existing problem without correcting it.

Once one edge is ripped straight, I clean up that edge a little with a plane, and then use a combination square and pencil referencing off of the straight edge to mark the other side of the cut for the width of the piece of stock I am after. That way the second rip gives me a piece of stock with sides that are pretty close to parallel, although both will need to be squared a little after the face is flattened.

[Curtis Niedermier]

I like to saw with the piece held vertically in the vice. Sometimes I end up finishing the cut kneeling or squatting, which is a little weird maybe but works for me. I prefer this method to the sawbench because I can "feel" my body alignment better and get a square edge - or closer to square than on the sawbench. Plus, I feel like I can see my line and the work better. On a long rip, I start the cut with the end pretty close to the vise to minimize vibration and slide the piece up a couple times as I go. Sometimes I flip end for end and saw from the opposite side to meet my kerf. It's actually one of my favorite hand tool tasks, especially with a sharp, large-toothed rip saw through a soft wood. I feel like I can really fly.

I also sometimes saw with the board clamped along the edge of the bench. I use two hands on the saw and work it up and down.

[Chris Hachet]

I like to saw with the piece held vertically in the vice. Sometimes I end up finishing the cut kneeling or squatting, which is a little weird maybe but works for me. I prefer this method to the sawbench because I can "feel" my body alignment better and get a square edge - or closer to square than on the sawbench. Plus, I feel like I can see my line and the work better. On a long rip, I start the cut with the end pretty close to the vise to minimize vibration and slide the piece up a couple times as I go. Sometimes I flip end for end and saw from the opposite side to meet my kerf. It's actually one of my favorite hand tool tasks, especially with a sharp, large-toothed rip saw through a soft wood. I feel like I can really fly.

I also sometimes saw with the board clamped along the edge of the bench. I use two hands on the saw and work it up and down.

The two hands with the board on the edge of the bench thingie is actually revolutionizing my woodworking. Trying to get away from the Table saw as much as possible. I am going to need to find another saw about 5 TPI for ripping heavier stuff.

[Eric Schubert]

This thread sparked my interest, as I'm staring down some large lumber that I need to rip in half. (They're 6x8's that are 8' long...) Daunting, to be sure, but doable. Unfortunately, I have no bandsaw and I do not want sawdust spewing around my basement and getting pulled in our living areas. So, ripping by hand it is. Time to touch up the saw and get to it. This is to build my first workbench, so I may just push a pair of tables together so I have a slot to rip down. How to hold the lumber will be something for me to ponder...

[Chris Hachet]

This thread sparked my interest, as I'm staring down some large lumber that I need to rip in half. (They're 6x8's that are 8' long...) Daunting, to be sure, but doable. Unfortunately, I have no bandsaw and I do not want sawdust spewing around my basement and getting pulled in our living areas. So, ripping by hand it is. Time to touch up the saw and get to it. This is to build my first workbench, so I may just push a pair of tables together so I have a slot to rip down. How to hold the lumber will be something for me to ponder...

This is partly my interest. I was breaking up some large slabs, 12/4....too much for the table saw or my band saw.....hand saw work was easier than I thought it would be...

[Kees Heiden]

For those deep cuts: Start the cut on the corner and lay the saw down so you saw diagonally and create a kerf on the top of the wood. Turn the board over and do the same on the other side. Now you have kerfs on both sides for a short length along the board, say a foot or so. Now rip down this length with the saw in normal more vertical position until you reach the end of your kerfs. Repeat.

This is not the quickest way of ripping a board but it is safer to get a perpendicular cut.

[Eric Schubert]

Kees, are you saying to put two kerfs on the same end of the board, but on opposite sides? Can you elaborate just a bit on how this helps keep a perpendicular cut? Is it recommended to perhaps do this multiple times? (i.e. flip the board over periodically and saw from the opposite side, so as to keep on your lines)

[Jim Davis]

I suspect most carpenters of the 1800s would have sent a 6X8 to a mill to be resawn or set up with a whip saw if no mill were available. It's possible to get carried away with thinking we are doing it the traditional way, when those who made the traditions would have laughed at our waste of energy.

I once ripped a 24-foot 2X12 with a Disston 5-1/2 PPI D-8, and was quite proud of myself. But I suspect a boat builder of any time after the Industrial Revolution would have ordered a 2X6 in the first place. BTW, the only practical way to hold that long 2X12 was on a pair of saw horses with my knee for a clamp. I can't imagine ripping a board with it clamped to my bench 30" above the floor. The angle of motion and cutting would be all wrong. Rip saws work best at something like a 45° angle to the face of the board.

[Brian Holcombe]

It's my understanding that at the time the Mill would have been supplying boards much closer to size than currently, especially for projects calling for thin material.

[Kees Heiden]

Kees, are you saying to put two kerfs on the same end of the board, but on opposite sides? Can you elaborate just a bit on how this helps keep a perpendicular cut? Is it recommended to perhaps do this multiple times? (i.e. flip the board over periodically and saw from the opposite side, so as to keep on your lines)

Yes, you understood it right. First make a kerf on the top surface of the board, sawing diagonally until the saw is almost horizontal. Then turn the board over and do the same on what was the formerly bottom surface. Now the saw has two kerfs to guide it. You still need to try to keep the saw perpendicular, it's not fool proof, but the two kerfs certainly help. You make the kerfs for a short length, then saw the web in between and then repeat the same proces until youend up at the other end of the board.

I do the same with the table saw. Make two kerfs on both sides of the board, then saw out the web in the middle with a coarse rip handsaw. The tablesaw leaves a much wider kerf though.

[Karl Andersson]

When I've ripped thick or long pieces with my 5 ppi Disston, I found it easiest to prop them on a single trestle (actually an old picnic table outside) so the boards were at about 45 degrees to the ground and I sawed them standing. This helps get your whole body into the sawing motion, with your arms relatively straight and moving from the feet and/ or hips (like hand-sharpening on a stone when setting the bevel angle). This way you're mostly cutting diagonally through the cut with the grain, sloping along the end grain, instead of cutting squarely across the ends of it, so it goes a little faster and is easier on the saw (and your back), like Kees describes. As the cut passes the mid-point, I reverse ends of the board and start again. I don't usually flip the wood to make the kerfs - starting with the diagonal and using guide lines along the cut and over the end helps get started square, and with thick wood, the saw will usually track straight if you've started straight. I do check periodically to make sure the back side is tracking as well as the front side. The first 2 inches of my big ripper have extra set so I can use it to widen a cut slightly and re-direct if needed (I read about that somewhere).
Karl