Is this plane toast?

[Paul Fisicaro]

This is from my Sargent 414 restoration. It's pitted pretty bad. I'm not an expert in planes but that cant be good. Should I start crying now or later?

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[Nicholas Lawrence]

I think "toast" largely depends on your budget. If it is large, that plane is toast and you should be on the phone to Lie Nielsen.

The only way to really know is to try it. It is certainly not ideal, but I have had some decent finishes off of a plane that looks worse than that. I would look closely at the iron. If it is pitted like that, you will have trouble. As others have said, sharp fixes a lot, and if there are pits in the iron, you can have trouble getting a good edge.

[Chris Hachet]

Or not at all. it does not need to be blemish free to be a good user. If the sole is structurally compromised, it is a parts plane, which is also a useful thing to have.

But the pitting would not bother me. It will never be a pristine tool again, but so what?

I have a WW 2 Era #4 that I use for only rough work....besides, this gives you the excuse to legitimately restore another plane.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Toast? far from it, just get the sole flat and it'll work as well as any. saying that's toast is like saying a duck with irregular colors can't swim...

[Paul Fisicaro]

Thanks for the input, guys. It's almost complete, painted fresh, flat on all sides. It came with a very small iron from a #3 plane so Im looking for a replacement blade and then ill give the ole girl a few laps around the track and see what she's got.

[Chris Hachet]

Thanks for the input, guys. It's almost complete, painted fresh, flat on all sides. It came with a very small iron from a #3 plane so Im looking for a replacement blade and then ill give the ole girl a few laps around the track and see what she's got.

Let us know how it works out!

[Pat Barry]

This is from my Sargent 414 restoration. It's pitted pretty bad. I'm not an expert in planes but that cant be good. Should I start crying now or later?
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Not toast at all IMO, For a jack plane, it maybe needs is a bit of sole flattening and then a light touch with your finger tips to gauge if there are any burrs due to abrupt depressions. You could do a bit more sole flattening or even localized hand sanding (just to eliminate the burrs) and it will be good to go.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

painted fresh, flat on all sides

Flat on all sides pretty much says it all for the plane proper. Bottom is flat, so, now drop in a blade that is in good shape and use it.

Looking forward to a report when you start using it.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Not toast at all IMO, For a jack plane, it maybe needs is a bit of sole flattening and then a light touch with your finger tips to gauge if there are any burrs due to abrupt depressions. You could do a bit more sole flattening or even localized hand sanding (just to eliminate the burrs) and it will be good to go.

Why a Jack plane? because a smoothing plane must have a shiny perfect bottom? it can be made into the finest smoothing plane too. the only points that really need to be clean before+after the mouth. the back end of that plane has PLENTY of contact area to do it's job. in fact I have an old Bailey with a huge dip directly in front of the mouth... works perfectly fine, and with chipbreaker set it's still a good smoother.
I'm assuming the front of the plane is fine both because it seems that way from the picture and because the OP didn't mention it.

In any case, if the rest of the plane is good - good handles, and he is putting in a new after market iron in it.... making in into a small #4 size jack plane is just silly IMO.

BTW - A jack plane gets a 100 times the use of a smoother in pure hand tool work, it's just a #4 makes a so so jack.

[Pat Barry]

Why a Jack plane? because a smoothing plane must have a shiny perfect bottom? it can be made into the finest smoothing plane too. the only points that really need to be clean before+after the mouth. the back end of that plane has PLENTY of contact area to do it's job. in fact I have an old Bailey with a huge dip directly in front of the mouth... works perfectly fine, and with chipbreaker set it's still a good smoother.
I'm assuming the front of the plane is fine both because it seems that way from the picture and because the OP didn't mention it.

In any case, if the rest of the plane is good - good handles, and he is putting in a new after market iron in it.... making in into a small #4 size jack plane is just silly IMO.

BTW - A jack plane gets a 100 times the use of a smoother in pure hand tool work, it's just a #4 makes a so so jack.
Matthew - I was unfamiliar with this plane and looked it up - a Sargent 414 is a jack plane according to the site I found it listed on. Are you saying its not?
https://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/sargent-planes-by-the-numberwith-pictures/

[Bill Houghton]

Some people pay extra for planes with corrugated soles. Your corrugations are a tad irregular, but you probably didn't have to pay extra for them...

[Pete Staehling]

The pitting doesn't look too deep to me, but it is hard to tell from the pictures. In any case for a plane that is intended to be used rather than "collected", it wouldn't worry me much if flattening the sole didn't eliminate all the pitting.

[Matthew N. Masail]

Matthew - I was unfamiliar with this plane and looked it up - a Sargent 414 is a jack plane according to the site I found it listed on. Are you saying its not?
https://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/sargent-planes-by-the-numberwith-pictures/

I saw 414 and assumed!​ it was a no.4 size.... my apologies.

[Art Mann]

I like my toast buttered.;)

[george wilson]

The plane in question has nothing wrong with it as long as you have lapped the sole flat.

I am a bit of a condition freak,but that is an entirely different issue. There is no reason at all why the pitted sole would hurt the utility of this plane. Just lap it flat,and it will plane as well as if the sole were pristine.

[steven c newman]

Once you've rubbed the sole with a candle ( makes a plane slide along easier) those pits will fill up with some of the wax. Have had both the Sargent #414 and the #414c come through the shop. Mahoganey handles are nice. Any decent 2" wide iron will do, not really any NEED to go for the thicker ones ( that is why it has a chipbreaker in the first place) Careful with the chipbreaker....A Stanley one will not work, slot is in the wrong spot. same with a few of the after-market ones, as they are patterned after the Stanley spacing.

[Chris Hachet]

Once you've rubbed the sole with a candle ( makes a plane slide along easier) those pits will fill up with some of the wax. Have had both the Sargent #414 and the #414c come through the shop. Mahoganey handles are nice. Any decent 2" wide iron will do, not really any NEED to go for the thicker ones ( that is why it has a chipbreaker in the first place) Careful with the chipbreaker....A Stanley one will not work, slot is in the wrong spot. same with a few of the after-market ones, as they are patterned after the Stanley spacing.

This is good to know, as I was going to put an aftermarket iron in a Sargent plane.

[steven c newman]

Happen to have a pair of 2" wide irons in the shop, that might need new homes....

[Rob Luter]

Doesn't look as bad as a corrugated plane. Just saying.....

[Tom M King]

Think of it as rearranged corrugations.

[Brian Henderson]

Not remotely toast. So long as the sole is flat, it's usable. It doesn't have to be pretty.

[Jim Koepke]

A few of my planes have the same look to them and work fine.

jtk

[Paul Fisicaro]

Careful with the chipbreaker....A Stanley one will not work, slot is in the wrong spot. same with a few of the after-market ones, as they are patterned after the Stanley spacing.

I have the correct chip breaker but not blade. I can just put a Stanley blade in there, right? well, at least if I cant find a Sargent blade. I like keeping the same brands if possible but I think it will be harder to find a Sargent blade.

[steven c newman]

As long as it is 2" wide, should work. Hope the bolt between the two fits across the Stanley's slot. Some do, some not quite...

[James W Glenn]

I have a Millers Falls #6 equivalent, that was one of my first "back from the dead" restorations. I used it for years on boat work, but the sole is too pitted along the sides to reliably joint an edge over 1" width.
I do not think there is enough metal left to flatten past the major pitting. I picked up a Stanley to replace it when a job called for it, but I miss having Old Rusty at the ready. When and if, I would like to figure out how grind the sole to a very shallow arc, and recommission it for flattening slabs.

[Allan Speers]

I wish most of my users looked THAT good!

[Patrick Chase]

Not toast at all IMO, For a jack plane, it maybe needs is a bit of sole flattening and then a light touch with your finger tips to gauge if there are any burrs due to abrupt depressions. You could do a bit more sole flattening or even localized hand sanding (just to eliminate the burrs) and it will be good to go.

This is exactly right. Keep in mind that people used to make corrugated plane bases on purpose...

[Greg Krummel]

It looks fine, but if you would feel better filling them you can always fill them with JBWeld or another filler/epoxy. I did that on a badly pitted plane, and now the surface no longer has any breaks in flatness (the patched parts will be a darker gray than the metal, but if you apply with a little excess, sand down the excess after drying to nearly flat, then lap the bottom then the sole should be continuous and flat).

[Chris Hachet]

It looks fine, but if you would feel better filling them you can always fill them with JBWeld or another filler/epoxy. I did that on a badly pitted plane, and now the surface no longer has any breaks in flatness (the patched parts will be a darker gray than the metal, but if you apply with a little excess, sand down the excess after drying to nearly flat, then lap the bottom then the sole should be continuous and flat).

I never thought of that, an excellent Idea!