Happens every time I do..

[steven c newman]

Tails first. Not sure why, but when I do the tails first instead of the pins..
329601
Not the best, but it will tune up a lot better...
329602
However, the other three corners will get these done first..
329603
Maybe it was the type of saw used?
329604
I'll keep looking around to find that Disston No.4,,seems to have gone into hiding, when the word WORK was used...:eek:

[Paul Fisicaro]

I love dovetailing. Unfortunately Dovetails hate me. I spent a whole winter doing nothing but dovetailing on scrap wood. Im still not good at it. LOL.

[Phil Mueller]

You are not alone Paul. I've just about run out of scraps...but they are getting better.

[Jim Koepke]

Mine are nothing great, but they are getting better.

I may try pins first next time. One of my recent practice sessions was cutting a half blind pin(socket?) and it came out rather well. Maybe I should try to make a tail to match it.

jtk

[Chris Hachet]

Looking good.....when I come up, I will bring a dovetail saw, might help to be lower in the center of gravity and closer to the wood. Just my two cents.

Regards,

Chris

[Robert Engel]

Gaps are caused by:

1. Taking too much of the line
2. Not sawing square
3. Sawing off the line.

Looking at the pics, it appears you sawed on the line or on the wrong side of the line in the top 2.
You also have too much wood projecting, which means you didn't set the marking gauge to the thickness.
A quality saw is definitely good, but I sawed DT's for years with a cheap, $10 gent's saw. You just have to close up the set and resharpen them.

I think you've got too close spacing. 4 would have been plenty.

[Chris Hachet]

Gaps are caused by:

1. Taking too much of the line
2. Not sawing square
3. Sawing off the line.

Looking at the pics, it appears you sawed on the line or on the wrong side of the line in the top 2.
You also have too much wood projecting, which means you didn't set the marking gauge to the thickness.
A quality saw is definitely good, but I sawed DT's for years with a cheap, $10 gent's saw. You just have to close up the set and resharpen them.

I think you've got too close spacing. 4 would have been plenty.

I found a gents saw hard to control. Maybe I ened to pull mine out and try it again.

[steven c newman]

Well, FOUND the Disston No.4 this morning..finally. With pins first, I split the lines. When sawing the tails, I try to leave the lines....still not a Master of the Saw, but. Since the saw was found, I laid out pins first, and after the yails were done..no gaps, slip fit, barely had to tap them together. Waiting on that #@#$# Camera-ooski to finish charging back up. Then maybe a few photos?

BTW: I found out IF I rub the saw teeth and plate with a plain old candle, it does saw a lot easier...

[Chris Hachet]

Well, FOUND the Disston No.4 this morning..finally. With pins first, I split the lines. When sawing the tails, I try to leave the lines....still not a Master of the Saw, but. Since the saw was found, I laid out pins first, and after the yails were done..no gaps, slip fit, barely had to tap them together. Waiting on that #@#$# Camera-ooski to finish charging back up. Then maybe a few photos?

BTW: I found out IF I rub the saw teeth and plate with a plain old candle, it does saw a lot easier...

Another helpful tip. I am ripping a good bit of lumber by hand, any help is good help!

[steven c newman]

Got the other three set of dovetails completed today.
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Done pins first. I even found that No.4 backsaw..
329649
Haven't spread any Elmer's around, yet
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This is more of a test fit. Maybe a glue-up later? Tomorrow MIGHT see the lids get made.....I hope.

[Pat Barry]

With pins first, I split the lines. When sawing the tails, I try to leave the lines......
steven, do you mark your lines with a knife or a pencil? Also, why use a different sawing strategy for pins first vs tails first? It would seem that if you are doing knife marking then the mark needs to stay (ever so slightly of course) because it is part of the resulting tail. If a pencil mark then you need to leave just a bit more material alongside the line. In either case I don't see the saw splitting the lines as being productive. Curious what guys like Brian and Derek and Jim have to say though.

[steven c newman]

Beenusing a sharp pencil for a long time.....I ain't safe around a sharp knife...

I try to leave the lines when cutting either. If I do one or the other first, I split the lines, as a matter of habit. Even using a circular saw...I will try to split a line. Doing pins first, I can be as close to the lines as I can saw. Then use the pins to mark the tails, and cut on the waste side of those lines. What looks like gaps here..
329652
Is the pencil lines. It will be all sanded off, later. Trying to get enough gumption to wander back to the shop, and spread dome glue around. Hoping I have enough clamps......

[Jim Koepke]

Also, why use a different sawing strategy for pins first vs tails first?

I must have read this different than you did Pat. My reading was Steven does pins first and splits the marking lines. Then when marking the tails from the pins he leaves the lines.

The first piece marked whether it is pins or tails doesn't matter if the line is split, left or totally obliterated by the sawing. What matters is the sawing is square in the direction it needs to be square. It is the piece that is marked from the first piece that one needs to remember the line has to be left as the waste is outside of the marking.

jtk

[Keith Mathewson]

Steven,

I would encourage you to change a few things in your approach. If the saw shown in the first post was indeed the saw used then I'd feel pretty good that things turned out as well as they did, but I wouldn't use it again. For me two things helped immensely- taking a class from Rob Cosman and getting a Moxon vise. What I got from Cosman is that dovetails are sawn, not pared. Using a Moxon vise helped a great deal in that the work was now at a better height, vibration was reduced and layout lines were more accurate. Being able to saw accurately is paramount.

Here are some pics I've probably post before, I don't seem to take pics as much as I used to. All of these drawers were cut, glue applied and then clamped. None were test fitted or pared. I've done two kitchen jobs this way. The ability to saw to a line came directly from the Cosman class.

[Paul Fisicaro]

Gaps are caused by:

1. Taking too much of the line
2. Not sawing square
3. Sawing off the line.


2 and 3 is me. Sawing square is tough for me. I get it right 50 percent of the time. LOL.

[Paul Fisicaro]

Steven,

I would encourage you to change a few things in your approach. If the saw shown in the first post was indeed the saw used then I'd feel pretty good that things turned out as well as they did, but I wouldn't use it again. For me two things helped immensely- taking a class from Rob Cosman and getting a Moxon vise. What I got from Cosman is that dovetails are sawn, not pared. Using a Moxon vise helped a great deal in that the work was now at a better height, vibration was reduced and layout lines were more accurate. Being able to saw accurately is paramount.

Here are some pics I've probably post before, I don't seem to take pics as much as I used to. All of these drawers were cut, glue applied and then clamped. None were test fitted or pared. I've done two kitchen jobs this way. The ability to saw to a line came directly from the Cosman class.

That set up is so sweet! And those tails are awesome. So jealous!

[Pat Barry]

I must have read this different than you did Pat. My reading was Steven does pins first and splits the marking lines. Then when marking the tails from the pins he leaves the lines.

The first piece marked whether it is pins or tails doesn't matter if the line is split, left or totally obliterated by the sawing. What matters is the sawing is square in the direction it needs to be square. It is the piece that is marked from the first piece that one needs to remember the line has to be left as the waste is outside of the marking.

jtk
Yes, I agree with you Jim. I thought he was concerned about not getting a tight fitting joint. Maybe I misunderstood
.

[steven c newman]

My saw of choice..
329660
9ppi, filedrip, Disston No.4 clone.
I use the end vise on the bench, both to lay out the lines
329661
And, then I'll drop the board down to almost the line going across. I make sure that line is level...helps me saw straight down.
Just an old Carpenter....splitting a line has gotten to be a habit. I have to will myself to cut on the waste side. I keep a thumb against the side of the saw's plate, to keep things "plumb" as I saw. usually, I can get these done without any paring done. I needed the four sides together, as other parts needed to be sized, and a couple dados were fitted. Stopped dados at that.

Just to be a tool box, nothing more. Will go along with a tote a made awhile back..
329663
Might be a set?

[Patrick Chase]

What I got from Cosman is that dovetails are sawn, not pared.

IMO this is the single most useful piece of advice you can give or receive.

I'm no ace dovetailer, but what helped me was just practicing the 8 basic cuts (left/right thru tail, left/right thru pin, left/right blind pin, left/right blind tail in roughly that order of importance) until I could reliably nail my knife-lines (and I practiced using only knife markings. If you can hit a knife line then you can also follow a pencil line, but the reverse isn't necessarily true).

At one point I spent at least 4 hours/week for a couple months just making cuts, usually in sets of 30-40, without ever actually making a dovetail. IMO my time was better spent practicing just the things I couldn't do well.

Part of my approach probably stems from having been a moderately serious cellist and ski racer at one point in my life. In both cases you learn very quickly that you have to master the underlying technical elements before you can make decent music or lay down a fast run.

[Patrick Chase]

One other recommendation: Ian Kirby's book ("The Complete Dovetail" or something like that IIRC) was helpful to me, though obviously learning styles vary. I don't follow his advice on starting cuts, but I use most of the rest.

[steven c newman]

I must be doing something right..
329770
Not too hateful of a corner? 1/2" dovetails, done pins first. Box has been glued up, been out of the clamps and planed and sanded. Might get this tool box done by the weekend?
329771
need to make the lids, and work on the inside tool hangers. Styled after the Stanel No.888 from the 1920s...

[Chris Hachet]

2 and 3 is me. Sawing square is tough for me. I get it right 50 percent of the time. LOL.


About where I am at. I am working at cutting all of my mortice and tennon joints by hand, and ripping by hand. The more I cut by hand, the better I get. Eventually, I will work up to dovetails.