Advise on Saw for cabinet building

[David Ashley]

I have a house full of cabinets to build and honestly paying a business to build them for 40 50 60 K just seems astronomical. I have used plenty of wood tools own a small collection and have built things as I needed to, even have done my own windows in my home. So not new to carpentry but mostly new to woodworking. So it has come time to step up to the plate and buy a table saw.

I have used a few small saws in the past sub $300 and the wife really don't want me spending 3K on a saw. But I kind of feel that a bigger saw 36+ is really needed to build quality cabinets for my home. without feeling like shooting oneself. I admit I have lived this long without a table saw but have also hacked my way through, borrowed something and or gone to father in laws to get stuff done. He has a decent sized Jet but in a shop that has never been setup or easy to work in + its a bit of a drive.

So looking for advice on Size and maybe brands of what to look at.
Can I get away with something from Home Depot or should I pony up to something a bit bigger?

[Mark Wooden]

I'd recommend a good, solid 10"cabinet saw that will last. I consider the table saw to be the very center of a woodworking shop. To keep costs down, consider a used saw. The most popular saw ever is the Delta Unisaw and there are a lot of them around at a good price, as well as the Powermatic 65/66 saws that tilt left, a really nice feature for angled rips and lefties ;-). Both companies also made very good open stand contractors saws that are excellent performers. Some of the older Craftsman saws were ok, but others were a bone the day they were made so you have to be careful when looking at them. Walker Turner also made a great saw, but they have some idiosyncrasies that have to be worked around also, so I'd stick with the US made Delta's and Powermatics. Avoid used Asian machines as it doesn't take much to wear them out and rebuilding usually isn't worth it.
You can build an awful lot with a 25" rip capacity saw, which is what used to be standard for the fences on 10" saws. Aftermarket fences abound and sometimes you can find a set of longer accessory guide rails to fit stock fences.
Get a decent combo blade, a good rip blade and a good dado set and start building.

[Cody Colston]

For a good cabinet saw or contractor's saw at a really, good price, check out Grizzly. You can find better saws but your will be hard pressed to find a better bargain.

A satisfied Grizzly woodworking machines owner.

[Jesse Busenitz]

Where do you live? I would recommend looking on CL for a used saw with 50" fence. Or if you get a good deal on a saw buy a new fence. There is nothing more important than your saw when building cabinets imho.

[David Ashley]

Where do you live? I would recommend looking on CL for a used saw with 50" fence. Or if you get a good deal on a saw buy a new fence. There is nothing more important than your saw when building cabinets imho.

I agree having quality tools have helped me in the past, and have dealt with make shift before as well. I have been looking around on Seattle CL but nothing is a have to buy yet. I must admit the sawstop has peaked my interest but no used ones. There are a few Jet saws just haven't decided.

[David Ashley]

Mark and Cody. I will take a look at those, thank you for your comments.

[John TenEyck]

Personally, I would buy an old Unisaw, Powermatic, General or European saw. If buying new, the only one I would consider is the Sawstop as it's the only cabinet saw with the technology to prevent a life altering accident. Since you said $3K is out of the question, it would be one of those used saws. I have a 1954 Unisaw with a 50" fence, and it does everything I ask of it and it does it very well.

John

[Jim Becker]

If you'll be working with sheet goods, a reasonable alternative to a large saw (and the material handling that comes with sheet goods) is a good quality track saw for breaking down sheets with precision. You can then use a smaller table saw to accommodate any narrow rips.

[Mark Kornell]

If you are serious about building a houseful of cabinetry, you will want to look at a saw with a sliding table. It makes it much easier to break down sheet goods and square up the large pieces.

You can go the route of adding an aftermarket sliding table to a full-size cabinet saw. Or you could consider a euro-style saw with an integral sliding table (and even better, with a scoring blade).

[James Zhu]

If you search "slider" in the forum, you can find a lot of threads about slider, here below a few most recent ones. I think it is justified to spend some serious money on a slider to build at least 40k cabinet. I am sure once you finish the cabinet, fine furniture needs to be made too :)

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?239572-Slider-Questions
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?230613-Hammer-K3-Winner-What-I-ve-learned-in-the-last-6-months
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?239402-quot-Longer-Format-quot-Sliding-Table-Saws
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?239263-Hammer-K3-OR-SawStop-ICS&highlight=slider

[Rod Sheridan]

David, I would suggest a Euro slider, look at Felder/Hammer/MiniMax.

You won't regret buying one of the above, they will handle sheet goods and solid wood.

If you have your heart set on a cabinet saw, SawStop is the only one worth buying instead of a slider, as it has a substantial safety improvement over a standard cabinet saw.......Regards, Rod.

[Brian Thompson]

I've had my Grizzly G0715P for 4 years, and have been quite happy with it.

[Jim Dwight]

I used to use a table saw with 60 inch rip capacity but have switched to a tracksaw and a 24 inch capacity table saw. The track saw is at least as accurate and it's easier to move the 10 lb saw than the 75 lb sheet of plywood. I use a DeWalt but the Makita seems good and the Festool is preferred by many. Besides easier handling of the plywood, the track saw is safer and you need less shop space to cut up plywood with the track saw.

I know what a slider is but have never used one. I suspect they are very nice but I don't have the space or care to spend the money for one.

[John TenEyck]

+1. A track saw and a good cabinet saw is a smart way to break down and process sheets w/o taking out a second mortgage. I just use a straight edge and plain old circular saw but can appreciate the value of a track saw.

Didn't the OP say he didn't want to spend $3K?

John

[David Ashley]

Well I might be ok with it... But the boss lady would enjoy if I didn't spend $3k. Lol. But if I produce some nice built in units and cabinets she won't mind as much. The used market seems strong around here just looked at a jet for 1600 must be 8+ year old.
The other issue is I enjoy features and things that make life easier. I hate fighting with stuff in life. Those sliders look interesting, saw one on a saw stop... Need more research. Love the ideas everyone keep then coming.

Thanks
David

[Jared Sankovich]

40-60k would be a lot of cabinets.. a unisaw or clone And a tracksaw at the minimum. If you are thinking raised panel I wouldn't even consider any thing less than a shaper, preferably with a feeder

[Bill Ryall]

Personal experience, take it for what it is worth. Upper end contractor style saw with an aftermarket sliding table and a track saw for knocking down sheet goods. Total investment about $1500.
I kept putting off the track saw purchase. I'm kicking myself now for waiting so long.

[Bill Space]

Hi,

My my two cents.

Those with sliding table saws love them and think they are the best, which they may be.

SawStop owners would have nothing else! Who can argue against the safety feature?

Many have produced find cabinetry using a simple Sears Craftsman table saws, saws that those of us with better saws do not even take a moment to laugh at. Saws that are found on Craig's list for under $200 !

I used one of those Sears Craftsman tablesaws for years with perfectly satisfactory results. The saw does not make the craftsman… For lack of a better expression.

I am totally happy with my Grizzly RL1023WRlX table saw (hope I got the number right) that I bought a couple years ago. If I Remember right it was under $1500 delivered to local freight terminal.

I don't think you have to spend near $3K for a very functionable and useful table saw.

Bill

PS... I have made some very nice raised panel cabinets with my old Craftsman table saw with a router table built I into the right wing. You simply do not have to have the latest and greatest to produce very satisfactory results. Doesn't hurt thought if you do! :)

[Charles P. Wright]

I've got a SawStop PCS with a 3hp motor and 52" rails, it is really nice to have something so big and heavy for building cabinets; but it was also very expensive. I truly enjoy working with this machine.

You can get a quite capable cabinet saw from Grizzly for less, but without the same safety feature.

No matter what, you should have a circular saw and jig for breaking down sheet goods. A real track saw would be better, but I don't yet have one and have done OK by getting things close with my circular saw and a shop-made straight-line rip jig and then getting a clean cut on the table saw afterwards.

You can also get away with a contractor saw. They are heavy, you should be able to get 36" rails. I did build quite a few cabinets in my house with the RIDGID TS3650 that I had before the Sawstop. It was only 1.5hp (or something similar); but it had plenty of power for cutting plywood, and didn't bog down when I was cutting 3/4" wide 3/8" deep dados with a 6" stack.

The current incarnation of that saw is $529:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-13-Amp-10-in-Professional-Cast-Iron-Table-Saw-R4512/202500206

Dust collection isn't as good, and it takes up more space than a cabinet saw because the motor hangs off the back, but mine served me well for about eight years until I had the financial ability to upgrade and was sure I would be sticking with it.

[Peter Aeschliman]

My view after a few years of woodworking...



Running a full sheet of plywood through the table saw is probably one of my least favorite things to do in the shop
A track saw will break full sheets down very easily. Makes it WAY easier to handle on the table saw
A standard cabinet saw can only make parallel sides. It cannot make square corners without a miter gauge or a sliding table. Miter gauges do not allow you to make very deep cross cuts (not deep enough for cabinet work). Cross cut sleds can help, but you'd have to make a really big/heavy one to do the squaring cuts needed for cabinet work. Thus, a sliding table attachment for your TS is a HUGE help.
The normal base cabinet depth is 24". You should not need more rip capacity than this for cabinet work. I originally bought a TS with 50" rip capacity.... I only thought I needed it because I thought I would use the fence for cross cuts (but again, you can't make a 90 degree cut without a sliding table, miter gauge, or cross cut sled). Over the years, I've cut the rails down to save space in the shop.


So, no surprise that my recommendation is to get a smaller rip fence and to use the space saved for a sliding table attachment (or better yet, a european saw with an integral sliding table)... and a track saw. This setup will handle all of your sheet goods processing.

If you don't want to mill your own face frames or door frames, you can by S2S lumber (be picky with your selection to make sure it's quartersawn and flat/straight/square). Otherwise you will need a small jointer and planer to mill your own lumber.

That should set you up perfectly.

[Terry Hatfield]

Well I might be ok with it... But the boss lady would enjoy if I didn't spend $3k. Lol. But if I produce some nice built in units and cabinets she won't mind as much. The used market seems strong around here just looked at a jet for 1600 must be 8+ year old.
The other issue is I enjoy features and things that make life easier. I hate fighting with stuff in life. Those sliders look interesting, saw one on a saw stop... Need more research. Love the ideas everyone keep then coming.

Thanks
David

I'd suggest that if you are in the Seattle area it would be worth the trip to Bellingham to see and touch the Grizzly saws. I've had a G1023 cabinet saw with an aftermarket Exaktor sliding table for many years and the combination has been rock solid. If I was in your position today I would probably buy a Grizzly G0690 cabinet saw and a Festool, Makita or Dewalt track saw. You can do that for well less than $3k.

[John Goodin]

I suspect you will have a hard time finding a used Sawstop. They have not been in production for decades like delta and powermatic. And more importantly, for most people that saw is the last one they plan on buying.

I have a grizzly with a 26" cut and built in router table and just plan on getting adding a track saw when I build kitchen cabinets.

[John Goodin]

I suspect you will have a hard time finding a used Sawstop. They have not been in production for decades like delta and powermatic. And more importantly, for most people that saw is the last one they plan on buying.

I have a grizzly with a 26" cut and built in router table and just plan on getting adding a track saw when I build kitchen cabinets.

both can be had for less than 2k and the track saw can be sold at a good price easily after you are done.

[Randy Rose]

Don`t forget to budget a fair amount for the tooling and accessories.

Dedicated rip/crosscut/combination blades.

A dado set

Quality miter gauge.

Perhaps a Wixey DRO

Some older saws may also need an improved fence retrofit

[Kevin Womer]

If you'll be working with sheet goods, a reasonable alternative to a large saw (and the material handling that comes with sheet goods) is a good quality track saw for breaking down sheets with precision. You can then use a smaller table saw to accommodate any narrow rips.Those are my thoughts, a good track saw and a smaller table saw with a good blade will get you there.

[Rich Engelhardt]

If your plans include an upper corner cabinet, that alone will justify the cost of a track saw.
Just make sure that once you complete the carcass, you turn it upside down on a large piece of cardboard and trace the outline on the cardboard. That way, you'll have a nice handy template to use later on to make a shelf or shelves.

The cutting part of my modest kitchen project went very smooth.

- Ridgid TS3600 contractor saw w/Freud Glue Line Rip blade
- Festool TS55EQ track saw.
- Milwaukee 5625 router - table mounted
- Marc Sommerfeld (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klv0jzWD26w) T&G system (bits and featherboard)
- Kreg K3 Master jig

[Bradley Gray]

If your goal here is simply to save money on cabinets for your new house I would suggest you at least look into outsourcing cabinet parts. Boxes, drawers and doors can be ordered with 7-10 days lead time.

There are dozens of "little things" needed in addition to a table saw. Tooling to do quality work is expensive. Setting up shop is in it's self a huge project. Then there is the space issue - if you plan to take over the house to build cabinets it will slow down other progress on the project.

Do you work a day job? If so, when will you work on cabinets? If you are borrowing money to build, interest will pile up while you build cabinets.

It is not as glamorous, but staying ahead of subs making selections on fixtures and keeping the job site picked up can save a lot of money with no cash out.

[scott spencer]

A full size cast iron (or granite) saw with a belt drive induction motor is a step in the right direction IMO. That would include the traditional contractor saws with the motor hanging off the back, the newer hybrid style contractor saws with the motor inside the cabinet, the hybrid saws with a full enclosed cabinet, and the industrial cabinet saws with large cabinet mounted trunnions and usually 3hp+. New or used, Jet, Grizzly, PM, Delta, Shop Fox, Saw Stop, Bridgewood, Ridgid, select Craftsman, or Steel City all have worthy choices. Any of those will do a decent job once setup properly and fitted with a decent saw blade.

New will get you a warranty, and the modern riving knives. Look for a good fence, or be sure the price allows for a decent aftermarket fence. Heavier saws are generally more stable. 2hp or larger are best run with 220v. If you have 220v, it's hard to beat the value of the Grizzly G1023RL series or G0690 3hp cabinet saws in the $1500 range.

Most sheet good suppliers can rip full sheets down to rough size for you.

[Bob Vaughan]

A commercial point of view would be $40K worth of quality custom made casework = roughly 8K worth of materials. If half of that is sheet goods (3/4 & 1/4 birch plywood), that's a lot of plywood for one man. $32K left for labor, that's 533 man-hours for a $60.00/hr shop. A simple table saw will increase the labor time significantly. When considering doing your own casework there's a lot more to it other than the cheapest table saw capable of doing the job. It took me years of on and off work to get my tiny kitchen done the way I wanted it, but I did get it done. A good table saw was an asset, for sure, but it wasn't anywhere as near as efficient as an Altendorf slider type that the pros use. I also found that storage of work in process and a finishing area were a bigger concern than simple parts detailing. Its worth the hassle if you can't get the quality you want from commercial custom builders. If you're just trying to keep from spending money on big box store cabinets, then you'll find it difficult to beat a man at his own game.

[David Ashley]

My view after a few years of woodworking...


A standard cabinet saw can only make parallel sides. It cannot make square corners without a miter gauge or a sliding table. Miter gauges do not allow you to make very deep cross cuts (not deep enough for cabinet work). Cross cut sleds can help, but you'd have to make a really big/heavy one to do the squaring cuts needed for cabinet work. Thus, a sliding table attachment for your TS is a HUGE help.
The normal base cabinet depth is 24". You should not need more rip capacity than this for cabinet work. I originally bought a TS with 50" rip capacity.... I only thought I needed it because I thought I would use the fence for cross cuts (but again, you can't make a 90 degree cut without a sliding table, miter gauge, or cross cut sled). Over the years, I've cut the rails down to save space in the shop.


So, no surprise that my recommendation is to get a smaller rip fence and to use the space saved for a sliding table attachment (or better yet, a european saw with an integral sliding table)... and a track saw. This setup will handle all of your sheet goods processing.

If you don't want to mill your own face frames or door frames, you can by S2S lumber (be picky with your selection to make sure it's quartersawn and flat/straight/square). Otherwise you will need a small jointer and planer to mill your own lumber.

That should set you up perfectly.

Peter

Thank you for reminding me a cabinet saw can only make parallel cuts, with the fence I think I knew this but it was buried deep in my head. yes I can make tooling but that's a lot of work. I think this is where having the correct tools at hand really help, and for someone that might not have thought about things I can see frustration ensuing after making some cuts and items not aligning correctly. I know when I was in HighSchool I built a speaker box with a skill saw, it wasn't pretty.

[David Ashley]

A commercial point of view would be $40K worth of quality custom made casework = roughly 8K worth of materials. If half of that is sheet goods (3/4 & 1/4 birch plywood), that's a lot of plywood for one man. $32K left for labor, that's 533 man-hours for a $60.00/hr shop. A simple table saw will increase the labor time significantly. When considering doing your own casework there's a lot more to it other than the cheapest table saw capable of doing the job. It took me years of on and off work to get my tiny kitchen done the way I wanted it, but I did get it done. A good table saw was an asset, for sure, but it wasn't anywhere as near as efficient as an Altendorf slider type that the pros use. I also found that storage of work in process and a finishing area were a bigger concern than simple parts detailing. Its worth the hassle if you can't get the quality you want from commercial custom builders. If you're just trying to keep from spending money on big box store cabinets, then you'll find it difficult to beat a man at his own game.

I agree Bob sometimes paying a pro to do the work is better then doing it yourself, but part of the issue I have is location, In the Seattle WA area there are lots of people with lots of money so bill rates and bids have been really high and if you want quality or custom rates go up from there. I understand people need to make a living and respect that but for things I can do its hard to stomach big $$$$ outlay,
I still haven't decided yet on anything but this group is AWESOME Thank you everyone

[Robert Engel]

+5 (or 6?) on the track saw.

I built a big kitchen with several custom features for the same reasons as you.
Overall I had about $5K in materials. I spent $1800 for a nice cabinet saw, $1400 for a big planer and $800 for a jointer.

A friend of mine's daughter (a kitchen designer) who helped me with the layout said the kitchen I built would have been $25-30K.

The satisfaction and "ooh's and aah's" when people find out I built it myself? Priceless. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon11.png

[Gene Davis]

Cabinet-building is going to require some other tools. You certainly must have budgeted for, or already have, the following:

Planer, jointer, hollow-chisel mortiser (or Festool Domino), router with table and fence, drill press, and sanding tools.

When I was doing whole-house cabinetry work, I outsourced most everything, rather than build in-house. A lot of savings that way. Carcases from someone like CabParts. Doors, drawerfronts, drawerboxes, and accessories from someone like Scherr's. Hardware from one of the known hardware jobbers.

When I got deeper into doing it that way I downloaded and learned to use eCabinets, the app that allows one to design entire installations and then output all the details for cnc-fab of carcase parts, and for buying components. When I was using it, eCabs also permitted output for those building everything using a saw, and not a cnc router.

[Rick Potter]

My local Craig List usually has some very nice Unisaws in the $1,000-$1200 range. By nice, I mean clean never been stored outside, homeowner use (not commercial shop), and including some accessories.

Use it, then when you are done, you can always get your money back if you don't need it anymore. Bet you keep it.

[Greg R Bradley]

......
You can also get away with a contractor saw. They are heavy, you should be able to get 36" rails. I did build quite a few cabinets in my house with the RIDGID TS3650 that I had before the Sawstop. It was only 1.5hp (or something similar); but it had plenty of power for cutting plywood, and didn't bog down when I was cutting 3/4" wide 3/8" deep dados with a 6" stack.

The current incarnation of that saw is $529:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-13-Amp-10-in-Professional-Cast-Iron-Table-Saw-R4512/202500206

Dust collection isn't as good, and it takes up more space than a cabinet saw because the motor hangs off the back, but mine served me well for about eight years until I had the financial ability to upgrade and was sure I would be sticking with it.
That saw is $377 at one of the local HDs. I stopped and talked to a person returning one he had just bought. He had pictures where the blade did not stay perpendicular to the table at different heights. Look up the reviews on the web for the current model and you will see nothing but complaints. Just like everything else when something works, they figure out a way to make it worse chasing a lower price or higher profit.

[Chris Hachet]

If you'll be working with sheet goods, a reasonable alternative to a large saw (and the material handling that comes with sheet goods) is a good quality track saw for breaking down sheets with precision. You can then use a smaller table saw to accommodate any narrow rips.

This would be my thought. You will get much more bang for the buck IMHO with a new track saw than a used table saw unless your good at buying used machinery. IMHO someone is usually selling it for a reason....

[Chris Hachet]

That saw is $377 at one of the local HDs. I stopped and talked to a person returning one he had just bought. He had pictures where the blade did not stay perpendicular to the table at different heights. Look up the reviews on the web for the current model and you will see nothing but complaints. Just like everything else when something works, they figure out a way to make it worse chasing a lower price or higher profit.


Which is why I woulod blow the money for a Festool track saw. Very pricey, but it will get the job done and be unlikely to have issues.

[Randy Rose]

If your goal here is simply to save money on cabinets for your new house I would suggest you at least look into outsourcing cabinet parts. Boxes, drawers and doors can be ordered with 7-10 days lead time.

There are dozens of "little things" needed in addition to a table saw. Tooling to do quality work is expensive. Setting up shop is in it's self a huge project. Then there is the space issue - if you plan to take over the house to build cabinets it will slow down other progress on the project.

Do you work a day job? If so, when will you work on cabinets? If you are borrowing money to build, interest will pile up while you build cabinets.

It is not as glamorous, but staying ahead of subs making selections on fixtures and keeping the job site picked up can save a lot of money with no cash out.

A lot of sound and practical advice ^.
Thank you.

[Greg R Bradley]

Which is why I woulod blow the money for a Festool track saw. Very pricey, but it will get the job done and be unlikely to have issues.
Yes, you don't have to convince me as I bought a Festool Track Saw almost 30 years ago when Festool had one dealer in the US. I currently have a Festool TS55 and a Makita SP6000.

I agree with Bradley Gray that you can't buy tools to save money as you might want to buy parts from a production shop that specializes in that. Many "cabinet shops" actually do that.

[Charles P. Wright]

That saw is $377 at one of the local HDs. I stopped and talked to a person returning one he had just bought. He had pictures where the blade did not stay perpendicular to the table at different heights. Look up the reviews on the web for the current model and you will see nothing but complaints. Just like everything else when something works, they figure out a way to make it worse chasing a lower price or higher profit.
It's always a shame when a company manages to value engineer all the value out of a tool. I think the TS3650 had quite a loyal following, yet they went through a lot of churn after discontinuing and guess have ended up in a far worse place.

[Chris Hachet]

A commercial point of view would be $40K worth of quality custom made casework = roughly 8K worth of materials. If half of that is sheet goods (3/4 & 1/4 birch plywood), that's a lot of plywood for one man. $32K left for labor, that's 533 man-hours for a $60.00/hr shop. A simple table saw will increase the labor time significantly. When considering doing your own casework there's a lot more to it other than the cheapest table saw capable of doing the job. It took me years of on and off work to get my tiny kitchen done the way I wanted it, but I did get it done. A good table saw was an asset, for sure, but it wasn't anywhere as near as efficient as an Altendorf slider type that the pros use. I also found that storage of work in process and a finishing area were a bigger concern than simple parts detailing. Its worth the hassle if you can't get the quality you want from commercial custom builders. If you're just trying to keep from spending money on big box store cabinets, then you'll find it difficult to beat a man at his own game.

In one sense yes, but I am building boxes with American plywood and solid maple fronts for my kitchen for less than the cost per unit of unfinished oak and particleboard at Lowes. There is enormous overhead in running a store 140 hours a week with a full staff....

[Chris Hachet]

+5 (or 6?) on the track saw.

I built a big kitchen with several custom features for the same reasons as you.
Overall I had about $5K in materials. I spent $1800 for a nice cabinet saw, $1400 for a big planer and $800 for a jointer.

A friend of mine's daughter (a kitchen designer) who helped me with the layout said the kitchen I built would have been $25-30K.

The satisfaction and "ooh's and aah's" when people find out I built it myself? Priceless. http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/icons/icon11.png

....and not having a home equity loan and paying cash for everything....beyond priceless....

[Erik Christensen]

I am in the home stretch of what you are about to start - in my case: cabinets for 2 kitchens, 4 bathrooms, 2 offices & walk-in master closet. Main tools depend on what part of the process you are talking about

cases - track saw
drawers & doors - table saw & shaper/router table

either can be contracted out and you just assemble/install - looking back on it I saved maybe 40-50k over all custom but spent 80-90% of that in tooling and several years of part-time labor

so I can't say I really "saved" any $$ but I still have the tools :) and if I had to do it over I would still build them myself - YMMV

only advice I would give is - if you really 'want' to do this because you'll enjoy it then go for it - if it is to just save $$ then avoid years of hassle/aggravation and just write the checks

[Jim Dwight]

I built one kitchen using a table saw, RAS, router table and hand tools. I made the oak raised panel doors. The doors took at least as much time as the boxes. My late wife was patient and happy with the results.

I built an island for the last house (and same wife) using about the same tool list. The island was nicer than the kitchen, however, because my skills had improved. I dovetailed all the drawers, front and back. The box was built like a series of flat panel doors out of cherry and 1/4 cherry veneer mdf. The latter was 1/4 thick unlike the cherry plywood I could find.

The current LOML doesn't want to wait long enough for me to make all the cabinets so I expect to purchase them. We haven't shopped yet but I want to take a hard look at the Chinese knock-down ones based upon plywood boxes and lower price.

The minimum tool list I would use at this point to try and make a kitchen (or for that matter bathroom) is a decent table saw (I use a Ryobi BT3100 that cost about $300 new. They are no longer in production but you might find one cheap used, very accurate), a planner (mine is a Ryobi AP-10 bought used for $100 with terribly dull knives that work great now that the are sharp), a CMS (mine is a Hitachi dual bevel 12 inch non-slider), a pocket hole jig (I have one no longer offered, if it disappeared I'd probably get a Kreg master setup), dovetail jig (mine is a HF with a Grizzly template guide), a router or two (I have two PC 690s, a Bosch Colt, and an old Ryobi R500 motor in the router table), Router table (mine is home made with a lift), some chisels, and at least a couple hand planes including a shoulder plane, and a track saw (my DeWalt was about $600 with the tracks). I'm sure I left some things out (squares come to mind) but I put a fairly long list in this note to emphasize you need a bunch of "stuff". I also built myself a workbench based upon Ron Paulk's design and one of his crosscut jigs (it will crosscut a little over 3 foot wide pieces).

I believe it is completely possible for somebody who is good with their hands to start out and build acceptable cabinets. But not quickly and not without some tools. My early furniture was pretty basic but served us for many years. I can do nicer work now but it takes even longer. It's fun but not if somebody is on my case for the end result.

(I also use my biscuit jointer for glueups of panels, sanders, drills (usually a cordless), and different kinds of squares)

[Randy Rose]

[QUOTE=Jim Dwight;2518207
But not quickly and not without some tools.
[/QUOTE]


Yet more sage advice ^ >

[Ole Anderson]

Start with a slider? Nice if you can afford it or fit it in your shop but not necessary. I did all my kitchen cabinets using my 15 year old Grizzly 1023 right tilt 3 hp table saw, a Grizzly track saw for breaking down sheet goods and a good (shop built) router table. And a few other odds and ends. A new G1023 is $1350 plus shipping, throw in their track saw for $350 and a good router table and router and you are way under $3 grand for your major tools, all brand new. Sure a planer and jointer would be nice, but if your local lumber supplier will surface your lumber four sides you can skip that for now. But beware, this is a very slippery slope you are sitting at the edge of. I went with Euro style cabs with raised panel doors (all Hickory) and assembled the carcases with a quality dowel jig. I did make good use of a Delta lunchbox planer and an old hand-me-down 6" jointer.

[Ben Grefe]

I have been looking around on Seattle CL but nothing is a have to buy yet. I must admit the sawstop has peaked my interest but no used ones. There are a few Jet saws just haven't decided.

As another user in the Seattle area, I think your chances of finding a used Saw Stop on CL are slim. Ontop of that, if something does pop up, I doubt it'll be a good deal. I've been watching the CL used table saw market for a few months now - it's pretty dim. In general, any good CL deal (for any product) around here is snatched up within an hour or two.

I'd have to agree with the other poster who suggested heading up to Bellingham for Grizzly's store. I think they even have a dents n' scratch store that might help you out. The G069x or G1023 saws are probably right in your budget.

Lastly, you can do what every other Seattleite does and drive down to PDX to save on tax.

[Jim Andrew]

Don't forget to watch the classifieds on this forum, and woodweb for combo machines and sliders. I have seen some terrific deals on hobbyist machines. But they are usually halfway across the country from where I live in Kansas.

[Prashun Patel]

1. I agree with Bradley: If your goal is simply to save $$, buy pre-built boxes from a place like Barker Cabinet. They'll even finish them. Most services like this use frameless, Euro-style construction, which may be what you want or not...
2. If you are intent on buying, I would consider a Track saw. Sheets of plywood are a pain for one person (this person) to muscle onto a table saw. Also, you'll be doing a bunch of long cross cuts that may not be appropriate on a table saw. You can make accurate enough cuts for cabinets with a track saw.
3. If you get a tablesaw, and don't feel like rewiring for 220, you can easily do this project with a 110v hybrid saw.
4. The hardest part of cabinets (IMHO) isn't cutting up the parts, it's the doors. To this end, are you prepared with a good router table or shaper to do this?
5. What joinery method are you planning on? Good options (in order of incr. price): pocket hole jig, dowel jig, Domino.

Unsolicited advice: Cabinet construction is straightforward. However, it's been my (hobbyist alert) experience that the first box is fun to build; the rest are tedious. Outsourcing to Barker was kind of the best of both worlds for me.

[Jared Sankovich]

Don't forget about finishing either.

[Ray Newman]

As other posters mentioned, besides tools other factors to consider are finishing the cabinets and the amount of time involved. Realistically, exactly how long do you have to do this project? Could you or your spouse grow tired of working on what could become or appear to be a never ending project?

Also do not forget storage. Is there enough room to store/stack the sheet goods needed so as not warp/distort? Same with any door pieces, trim, cut off pieces, etc. Then you'll need storage for the completed and finished/unfinished cabinets.

[jack duren]

I have a house full of cabinets to build and honestly paying a business to build them for 40 50 60 K just seems astronomical. I have used plenty of wood tools own a small collection and have built things as I needed to, even have done my own windows in my home. So not new to carpentry but mostly new to woodworking. So it has come time to step up to the plate and buy a table saw.

I have used a few small saws in the past sub $300 and the wife really don't want me spending 3K on a saw. But I kind of feel that a bigger saw 36+ is really needed to build quality cabinets for my home. without feeling like shooting oneself. I admit I have lived this long without a table saw but have also hacked my way through, borrowed something and or gone to father in laws to get stuff done. He has a decent sized Jet but in a shop that has never been setup or easy to work in + its a bit of a drive.

So looking for advice on Size and maybe brands of what to look at.
Can I get away with something from Home Depot or should I pony up to something a bit bigger?


40-50-60k for cabinets seems odd when the wife doesn't want you to spend 3k on a saw. If you actually are looking at this much on cabinets and you don't have a "FULL" shop full of correct cabinet making tools your gonna need a year to build them and 6 months to replace the ones that you made that don't fit.

Sorry but this is a weird amount of money on cabinets for someone trying to save a buck without required skills...

[Randy Rose]

Start with a slider? Nice if you can afford it or fit it in your shop but not necessary. I did all my kitchen cabinets using my 15 year old Grizzly 1023 right tilt 3 hp table saw, a Grizzly track saw for breaking down sheet goods and a good (shop built) router table. And a few other odds and ends. A new G1023 is $1350 plus shipping, throw in their track saw for $350 and a good router table and router and you are way under $3 grand for your major tools, all brand new. Sure a planer and jointer would be nice, but if your local lumber supplier will surface your lumber four sides you can skip that for now. But beware, this is a very slippery slope you are sitting at the edge of. I went with Euro style cabs with raised panel doors (all Hickory) and assembled the carcases with a quality dowel jig. I did make good use of a Delta lunchbox planer and an old hand-me-down 6" jointer.

Leaving the original topic for a brief moment, your efforts appear to have yielded exceptionally beautiful results. Nice !