White paint/finish for poplar furniture?

[Rob Price]

I'm working on some beds for the kiddos. The wife wanted them painted white so I'm using poplar. I had initially planned on spraying them with some oil based paint but I'm considering trying conversion varnish. I've sprayed lacquer/poly/paint before. I use a 50 gallon compressor hooked up to either a gravity fed paint gun or HVLP gun. Never conversion varnish though. I'm interested in the durability (kids beds). I have a Sherwin-Williams 5 min away, so ice been looking at their formaldehyde free products. Thoughts?

Edit: I'd be open to pre-cat lacquer, I know it's not as tough but maybe more user friendly?

[Rob Price]

I can't edit on the phone:

Edit: I'd be open to pre-cat lacquer, I know it's not as tough but maybe more user friendly?

[Jim Becker]

I'm liking Benjamin Moore Advance for this kind of thing these days. It's an emulsified oil base in a water carrier...sprays beautifully without thinning and provides a nice hard surface. They originally recommended it to me for kitchen cabinets and I'll be using it on my current project which is a very large buffet/hutch patterned after an antique located in the tavern/restaurant I typically eat lunch in daily. I also like Proclassic from Sherwin Williams for whites and light colors, but I don't find it sprays well...it's better rolled and brushed, IMHO.

Unless you have a formal spraying environment, Pre-Cat Lacquer isn't a good thing to have on your list for safety reasons, unless it's one of the modern water borne products that are safer to spray.

[John TenEyck]

The problem with BM Advance and SW ProClassic is they are around 95 KU viscosity, which is unsprayable with a gravity feed HVLP gun w/o a lot of thinning. Their respective literature only mentions airless or air assisted airless for spraying options. I had to thin Pro Classic 18% to get it down to 65 - 70 seconds #4 Ford cup so I could spray it with my gravity feed HVLP gun, which is not a good thing to do. If you have a pressure assisted gun I'm sure you would not have to thin it as much but there are other alternatives with much lower viscosities right out of the can. I just used General Finishes Enduro White Poly and it came out beautifully and it's very hard after 3 or 4 days of cure time. It's supposed to be 65 - 70 seconds #4 Ford cup but I measured around 100 seconds. It sprayed beautifully with my new HVLP gun with a 1.3 mm n/n but it has a pressure cup. With a pure gravity gun I would guess you'd need a 2.2 mm orifice. Then there's ML Campbell's pigmented Agualente, which has a very friendly viscosity of around 40 seconds #4 Ford cup.

I don't see a bed getting chemical abuse, just physical. Poplar is not very hard so no matter what paint you put on it it's going to get dinged up. I'd pick which ever paint has a viscosity in the range you can handle with your spray gun, with minimal thinning,

John

[Jim Becker]

I found that the Advance sprayed beautifully with my Wagner HPLV gun, but it's not a gravity feed...it's was very similar to spraying Target's EM2000 which is also an emulsified oil water borne finish. The same setup doesn't spray ProClassic very well. I didn't find the Advance to be anything like the ProClassic in consistency and viscosity...

[John TenEyck]

I'm don't see how BM Advance could spray anywhere near the same as Target EM2000, at least not with the same gun setup. Advance has a Ford #4 viscosity of about 500 seconds (95 KU) while EM2000 is less than 30 seconds (40 seconds Zahn #2). They are more than an order of magnitude apart. Your gun setting had to have been very different. If not, one or both those companies is misstating the viscosity of their product - and by a lot.

Viscosity is THE key parameter to be considered when matching a gun with a particular product yet it is so often glossed over, generalized, or misrepresented. GF drives me to distraction with their product literature. To their credit they do give the viscosity, but then they recommend an HVLP N/N size for an HVLP gun without saying what kind of HVLP setup was used. From what I can determine, their recommendation is based on using a pressure feed HVLP gun. For example, the viscosity of Enduro Clear Poly is given as 40 - 50 seconds #4 Ford cup, and that's what I measure. They go on to say to use an HVLP gun with a 1.1 mm needle/nozzle. 45 seconds viscosity will spray fine with a 1.1 mm N/N with a pressure feed HVLP gun, but a 1. 8 mm needle/nozzle is required for a gravity feed gun.

For someone just starting out in spraying, like I did 5 or 6 years ago, this can all be very confusing and frustrating. I soon figured out that I could use the product literature viscosity to determine which products should work with my equipment but then to measure the actual viscosity of each can of finish before making a final decision on which N/N to use with whatever gun I'm considering. Recently I moved up to a semi pro quality pressure feed HVLP gun and spraying has gotten much easier. One gun with 3 N/N setups covers about anything I'll ever want to spray, and with better results than I ever got with my low end straight gravity feed guns.

John

[Art Mann]

I don't want to hijack Rob's thread, but I have a question that he may be interested in as well. I have a Pressure fed Wagner conversion gun just like Jim Becker's. Actually, I bought it on his recommendation. I have used it for a long time now and am very pleased with the results. This gun seems to be able to spray higher viscosity materials better than gravity fed guns. Is there any advantage to gravity feed guns for this type applications other than the fact you can get one dirt cheap from Harbor Freight?

[Rob Price]

I'm using gravity fed guns and I've never had much luck with water borne finishes. Sounds like I would need new guns for these water finishes you guys are referring to. I've done very well with oil and lacquer finishes. I have a dedicated spray booth in the attic above my shop. Heated, Sealed, filtered air in/out with cross ventilation... I'll just talk to the SW Williams guys. Thanks.

[John TenEyck]

You should download the PDF by Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishing at the attached link. Among other things it will show you what size N/N you need for the viscosity finish you want to spray and the type of gun you have. If you do not already have one, you should buy a plastic Ford #4 cup and measure the viscosity of products you want to spray. They often are very different from what the manufacturer states on their data sheet. It's about the best $6 or $7 you can spend related to spraying.

John

http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/spray-painting-pdf-document/

[Rob Price]

I've got the cup. That's a great link. Thanks!

[Max Neu]

We spray conversion varnish (solvent) almost daily,and I don't find it to be anymore difficult to spray than a pre cat,if anything,it's less problematic.Have you started the project yet?If not,I would recommend using soft maple instead of poplar for painted projects,I think it paints much better in my experience.

[Rob Price]

Define 'started'...

[Rob Price]

I did find a Benjamin Moore not too far away. I also found a place that carries Duralaq- they have a white tinted pre-cat lacquer. Any experience with Duralaq?

[Chris Padilla]

I've used Target Coatings EM6000 series: works/sprays nicely. I did a bathroom cabinet 12 years ago. Still looks great.