DAR, American Spirit - Anthony Hay Cabinet Shop

[lowell holmes]

George Wilson,

There is an article in the current American Spirit" magazine, "Honing Their Craft". The magazine came today. My wife is a member of the DAR.

It talks about the Anthony Hay Cabinet Shop. I have visited the shop a few years back. But that's not the reason for this post. There is an interesting part.

Quoting the article,
"People have the conception that one man built a whole piece of furniture, but that's not the case"

"Most shops had several people who worked together like on an assembly line." The article talks about furniture designers were also architects."

There were joiners, carvers, and finishers as well.

Did you have all of these different craftsmen in your shop. I would like to hear what took place in the old days.

If you have the energy and time to talk about some of this, I'm sure others in this forum would like to hear it as well. Maybe you have something already written.

[Randy Karst]

I would certainly find it fascinating if George is inclined to share some of his experience and knowledge on this.

[george wilson]

I left the Musical Instrument Maker's Shop,adjacent to the cabinet shop in 1986. So,I am not sure how Mack Headley ran his shop. He was the Master Cabinet Maker. He had newly come back to the shop about that time. He had left for several years,but found that he could not make a living building furniture to the standards he wanted to,and doing elaborate carving as well on some pieces.

I can say that in the old days the Master of a decent size shop would have had someone who planed wood all the time: a Joiner. The Master would have concentrated on making the finished piece from the planed wood. All the furniture which the shop sold would have had only the master's name on it. There might have been a carver,specializing on decorating the furniture.

I'm pretty sure that Mack did not run his shop that way,nor did I when I was Master Instrument Maker. These days no one wants to be pigeon holed into a thankless job of drudgery that goes on every day. At least not in the museum. They might have to do that these days still if they were ditch diggers or grave diggers.(Do they still dig graves by hand? Probably not. I recall a fuss back in the 60's when a local cemetery went to digging graves with a back hoe). I know the staff did make individual pieces by themselves before Mack returned. One made a large set of chairs for the Governor's Palace.(Derisively so called by the colonists at the time,it being much larger than even the richest inhabitants homes.)

In my shop,every person made a whole instrument by themselves,and put their own name in it,along with it being made in Williamsburg.

A big maker like Stradivarius (An important man was allowed to Latinize his name,and this violin maker was quite rich and had a good size shop that is a tavern today. Columbus was really Columbo,for example.

This is wandering a bit,but Stradivari would have had a lot of helpers. At least several men in a shop his size. The master would no doubt select the wood,and over see every step his men were making. Especially the carving of tops and backs. When nearly finished,the master would take over the final thicknessing of the plates,tuning them and making finishing touches on the workmanship. Possibly a specialist would have done the varnishing.

I know of one modern violin shop in Germany where there are benches all around a room. The master has his bench,and he is handed each violin that in made at the other benches. He plays with it,testing. If it doesn't sound good,he rips the top off and glues on another. This is kept up till the violin sounds the way he wants it to. To me,this represents some ignorance on the part of everyone on how to make a fine violin.

Getting back to what happened in the old days,I know factually that 19 specialists were involved in the making of a single gun. I mention guns because everyone had guns,and there was a great demand by the military. A lot more guns were made than fine furniture.

There was a barrel forger,a barrel borer,a rifler,a breech plug forger,and finally,even a "Screwer together" who assembled the finished parts of locks. He might have also made the screws and threaded them and the holes. There is a written reference that a certain well known maker,Durs Egg-a Dutch emigrant,IIRC,was one of the few gunsmiths in London(The highest honor was to have a shop in London,and your work had to be of the very best quality for the guild to let you in) who could make an entire gun by himself if need be,"Without hawking it to every journeyman in town" for all the bits and pieces.

The ONLY surviving piece of SIGNED furniture from 18th. C. Williamsburg is a ceremonial Masonic "throne". It is only signed "Benamin Bucktrout". He was one of the cabinet makers who owned the shop at one point in its history.

The Hay's Shop also sold an astoundingly large number of items. Even Saddles. Just all kinds of things. I can't remember how many different things they sold,nor can I imagine where they put them!! I personally get the feeling that Bucktrout was more of an entrepreneur than a craftsman. Certainly the Masonic throne is finely made,but by whom in the shop? No one really knows. But,signed by the master. His name is mis spelled on the back of the chair(Benamin). Since the name was stamped in with letter stamps very deeply,we can't tell if someone else did the stamping who could not spell "Benjamin",or of it was just a non erasable mistake.

A person started an apprenticeship at age 14 in the 18th. C.(There may have been exceptions). In Italy he had to become the same type of tradesman than his father was. In England a father could secure any trade he wanted for his son to go into.

The apprentice was fed and sheltered by the master. Probably not given money unless the master was extra fond of the apprentice,and sometimes gave him a few coppers. At 21,the apprentice had made a "masterpiece" that showed that he had all the needed skills. He was given a suit of clothes and set free to find work,unless he stayed.

I must feed the dogs. Sorry for this disjointed response. It has been many years since 1986. When I became Master Toolmaker and Instrument Maker (Though I did not make instruments at work any more,just at home,but that was my title) in 1986 Jon Laubach worked with me,a master in his own right,but the opportunity for him to become a master had not presented itself to him. We signed together things we both worked on,like the saws and planes,or individually those things we made separately. Not really like it would have been in the 18th. C.. We're just a lot more democratic today!!:)

[lowell holmes]

George,

I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. It is a clear and information filled response. I would suggest the Creek make it a permanent article to be read. The opportunity to do this doesn't come along very often.

[Frederick Skelly]

George,
Thanks for taking the time to teach us. Your lessons always help me connect more deeply with the past, making woodworking a little more than just a hobby.
Fred

[george wilson]

Thank you,Frederick and Lowell. If you try real hard,woodworking can become an exhausting annoyance,giving you COPD and worn out joints!!!:) But,I can't complain. I'm stuck with what I could do well at least. Even got paid for it.

[David Eisenhauer]

Very, very good stuff George. Thanks for passing it on. What you say ties in to some of things I have read over the years concerning craft work in days past.

[george wilson]

In Flanders,if a harpsichord making journeyman applied to the guild for work,he had to find an established master who would take him into his home and shop. There he would be fed and supported while he built a harpsichord with the master's materials. When the instrument was done,it would be presented before the guild counsel. If it was good enough,the journeyman would get permission to set up a shop and build harpsichords as a master. The harpsichord he had made would be kept by the master who had taken him in as payment for the materials,room and board.

[Mel Fulks]

George,thanks for filling in some detail on the chair. Never heard about the missing J before. For anyone who doesn't know about the acquisition a former furniture curator there ,one Wallace Gusler "found" it. He found the stamp ,was involved in the purchase, and carved the copy of the chair for the former owners. He has also attributed the Mount Vernon carved torchchers (candle stands) to Bucktrout though MV had them cataloged as English. Don't know if they have accepted that at MV.

[Kees Heiden]

There must have been businesses on all kinds of scales. For example, building a cathedral in the Gothic period was a massive enterprise. The guy who designed it and supervised the construction was called the master. Usually someone in the masons guild. He probably didn't touch much brick in his daily life anymore. At the other end of the spectrum, for example the master planemaker in 17th century Amsterdam. They had tiny shops in back alleys.

At least in the middle ages journeymen travelled around a lot, often over long distances to seek for work. I don't know how long that tradition continued, but you could still find traces of it in France and Germany in the 20th century. And probably still today but they aren't called journeymen anymore.

[Tony Zaffuto]

George,

I've said years ago, when first introduced here to your posts/writings/pictures/musings, that you should write a book. So very, very interesting!

T.

[lowell holmes]

Kees,

We were visiting Kinderdijk in August. When taking the windmill tour, we saw a lot of the woodworking tools used making and servicing the windmills.
They looked like a cabinet shop at Williamsburg.

However, there were no hand planes on display. I assumed they were too valuable to display or they had been stolen.
The woodworking involved in making and servicing the windmills was enormous.

What wood specie was predominate in the windmills?

[george wilson]

Mel,I may be wrong,but Wallace was the gunsmith when I arrived in Williamsburg in 1970. He was quite young,starting in the corner of the blacksmith's shop at age 19,LEARNING to hand make guns. In 1970,he was Master Gunsmith in a separate building. He was for several more years,interested only in guns until he carved an ARMCHAIR with bulldog faces for the arms. He learned furniture construction from old Mr. Simms(of the old tool chest that Roy had on his show), He became friends with the curator,who was impressed with the chair,and was offered a job as curator of furniture. As far as I know,he learned as he went along,having only an 8th. grade education. The Masonic chair was ALREADY THERE when I arrived,and I have NO knowledge that Wallace had anything to do with finding it. Certainly the stamp was not found,if you mean the J. I never saw anything like the relationship with the head curator. I think it was a real "Father-son" relationship. I will say no more about it. I'm NOT implying a gay relationship AT ALL,so don't get that idea. Eventually something pretty big happened that ended that relationship. Then Wallace stayed home,building flintlocks and selling them,and I think selling antiques. He hired "apprentices" to work for him,filing trigger guards and other things.


Years later,maybe in the 80's,while he was still curator of furniture,he did find the remains (an empty hulk) of a spinet harpsichord in the Western part of the state,with a family tradition that it came from Williamsburg. Pretty sad looking.I don't think there is real evidence that it was built here. Just the basic shell of the instrument was found. No keyboard or other interior parts. But, this spinet is the instrument that is copied year after year by the remaining instrument makers in their corner of the cabinet shop after I left. Our independent shop became the "ware room" of the cabinet shop,where several finished pieces of their furniture are exhibited. The public still complains that the instrument shop is not there,but that was not my decision,and I was gone from there in 1986. There was not enough historic evidence that an independent Musical Instrument Maker existed in Wmsbg. in the 18th. C.. Only a single short ad in the Gazette that Benjamin Bucktrout "Also makes harpsichords and spinets". But,we ONLY know that he made a CRATE for a harpsichord for A wealthy plantation owner so it could be shipped somewhere. As I mentioned,Bucktrout had his fingers in selling MANY,MANY things in his shop,and I think he wanted to impress the public that he could acquire or make anything they wanted.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Note that when George speaks about the Hay shop he is talking about what in the 1700s was a shop in a major "city" by Colonial standards. The population of Boston was under 10,000 in the mid 1700s, Philly was the largest city in North America and still had less than 20,000 people. My point is that the "major city" shops had sufficient business to be multiperson and could contain a Master, several journeymen, and some apprentices. Out in the countryside with low population densities cabinetmakers often worked only part time at the trade and had to supplement their income by farming, making coffins, and doing anything else that would generate income. Back then due to a shortage of hard money much trade was conducted by barter which included not only goods, but day labor. That table might be sold for 2 shillings, 3 bushels of apples, and 2 days labor.

[Mel Fulks]

George, we might be tangling the two different Masonic chairs as the saying goes "...easy to do with all that fru fru!". The one with the Dolphin imbricated feet and gilded sun was acquired in 1983 from a Masonic hall that bought it from another Masonic hall. The making of the copy was the subject of brief but bright publicity. I think the earlier chair is attributed to the Gibbs shop. Edit: I think now it was the Hay shop ,don't know where I got "Gibbs"

[george wilson]

Lowell,I am not familiar with the intricacies of windmill making except for a few points. The large beams that carried the sails which made the windmill in Williamsburg revolve were made from Sitka spruce,which they did not have here in the 18th. C.. But,it was the logical choice for a light but strong wood also used in early aircraft frames and wing spars. I have a large (about 8" x 10") chunk of spruce that was left over from repairing the beams years ago. Must have cost them plenty to get it sent from Alaska!!!

I'm very sure the HUB of the windmill is made of elm. I made a very large caliper for the supervisor of the windmill to use when he wanted to fabricate a new hub. Elm is also the best choice for the hubs of wagon wheels since every layer spirals in the opposite direction,making it nearly impossible to split in half. Plus,it's a very tough wood to begin with.

This is where I begin to GUESS that the rest of the operating parts are made of white oak,such as the heavy vertical shaft that propels the grinding stones. The building itself is like any other building in its function. I would suppose that the interior framing timbers would be yellow pine,which is quite a good and common choice for 18th. C. buildings(and later if available,though the framing was cut smaller and smaller over the years. But,in the 18th. C.,a 2x4" WAS really that size. When you look at them,they seem much larger than a 2x4",but that is what they are.

Cypress,a commonly available wood around here,I know was used for roofing shingles.We used to have an old shingle splitter here(and MANY other small trades that have since vanished).These small trades,like candle making and shingle making paper making and paper marbling were things that really delighted the public. But,they couldn't prove they were done here in the 18th. C..,so stopped them.

Let's face it: Wmsbg. was a SMALL fishing town at that time. Being the capital of Va.,it was only busy when the government met in the capital. IF they took away only the things they can prove,the town would get more and more boring. It isn't what it used to be. I was fortunate to be there in the "Golden Age" of the trades program. If they want this place to be authentic,they need to dig up the asphalt streets and have them 2 feet deep in MUD as was mentioned by a traveler in the 18th. C.. They need to have pigs,chickens and other farm animals running loose in the streets(All those pretty fences you see here were to keep OTHER PEOPLE'S livestock off your property). Today,it's totally the opposite, YOU have to keep YOUR animals off other people's property.:)

They need to have operating out houses complete with thousands of flies,and operating wells for children to fall into(They can also fall into the out houses!) No one should bathe except very seldom(they might catch a flu and die!) Teeth need to be pulled at the apothecary Shop,and limbs amputated if needed. Crazy people need to be roaming about( We did have one in the 70's as the local mental hospital would let harmless ones out till the 5:00 bell went off. But,they were not in costume,and one kept soiling himself. It was pretty embarrassing),and amputees begging with their cup. In the 50's in Norfolk that did exist!! I recall a double amputee scooting around on a furniture dolly begging.

I could go on,but,of course we can't have those things going on. So,the town is a very much sterilized representation of 18th. C. life. I'm not running the museum down,it was my career and my life for 40 years. I'm just telling it like it is. I had the best of times there,making instruments and getting paid for it. I did pretty much what I wanted to do,except in rush times when i was asked to make a special gift for a visiting dignitary(That happened a LOT).I had a lot of fun and it was a good life for me for the most part. I plan to have my ashes scattered there.

[Andrew Hughes]

Thanks for sharing George,I'm am enjoying.

[george wilson]

A traveler in the 18th. C. mentioned in a surviving letter that the main street was "40 feet wide,and 2 feet deep". He also mentioned that "The architecture was but indifferent".

Whatever that last statement means can only be guessed at. But,I will relate to you that I was inside the Norton Cole House many times. It used to house our offices. It is a large brick residence and the President of the museum lived there for years.

But,the interior woodwork is really shabby: The stairway has spindles(is that the word?) that were obviously individually turned and it really looks like a drunk turned them. They are only APPROXIMATELY similar,and not well done AT ALL. The chair rail running around the rooms was made of yellow pine,and has HUGE gashes out of it where it was planed in the wrong direction.

This shabby work in the house of an obviously wealthy man! Is this what the traveler meant ? Or was it that he was used to seeing stone buildings in London? There is no way to know. The original brick work in buildings like the Capital looks very nice to me. Most of the buildings are laid in Flemish Bond,which is very attractive,and the bricks are in fine shape. There is at lease one smaller building where the bricks must not have been properly mixed,or fired wrong,and the bricks are eroding away very badly.

The owner of Wetherburn's Tavern,which is quite a large wooden building must have either been a tightwad,or in financial trouble. He hired CHILDREN to paint it. Now,children back then did many wonderful pieces of work. Probably forced to do it or starve,like Charles Dickens did,stuffing shoe polish into containers.That experience affected him for the rest of his life. His stories always have plenty of mean spirited,tight fisted,children hating adults. I'm sure he knew plenty of those as a child. Many did not value children. They were fed at "Second table" and were to be "Seen but not heard". I was raised that way. There is no way of knowing if they painted it well,or if it was a mess. The architects decided it was a mess,and had it sloppily painted in Spanish Red(I really got tired of seeing that color!). After a few years,they must have gotten complaints,so they had it properly repainted!!

[Warren Mickley]

Quoting the article,
"People have the conception that one man built a whole piece of furniture, but that's not the case"

"Most shops had several people who worked together like on an assembly line." The article talks about furniture designers were also architects."

There were joiners, carvers, and finishers as well.



When I was first involved in historic woodworking 40 years ago, some authors claimed that colonial woodworkers were so particular about seasoning their wood that they let it dry for 15 years. Can you imagine? Did they really think craftsman came over here from England or Holland and did nothing while waiting for the first batch of wood? Now today some are equally crazed about green wood to the point they think it is ruined if it gets too dry. Do they really think early workers would use a nice piece of wood for firewood because it was too dry?

In the same vein a lot of old 20th century authors claimed that each piece of furniture was made start to finish by one craftsman. And some woodworkers thought it unethical to put your carvings on someone else's furniture or to have someone else's dovetails etc. So the DAR article is probably a result of scholars trying to debunk the old "one craftsman" myth. My feeling is that in an 18th century shop the master was free to distribute work however he wanted.

The Hay shop workers now suggest that everyone worked on stock preparation at times. If an important commission comes into the shop, are three fellows going to sit around waiting for boards to be prepared, saying they are too good for this work? The historical evidence supports the notion that all prepared stock: Roubo has bench planes among things that are issued to each worker, many inventories seem to have four or five bench planes per bench, and there are complete sets of bench planes in the Seaton chest and I think the Phyfe chest. Seaton and Phyfe had completed their apprenticeships before purchasing the planes.

Frankly if you have a 14 year old boy, it is a lot easier to teach him dovetails than stock preparation. And if you have done a lot of this stuff, trying wood, sawing dovetails, carving rosettes, etc., it is all just work. They are all enjoyable if you make an art out of them.

[george wilson]

I think Roy has never used a truly dry piece of wood!!!:):):)

The tools in the Seaton chest were purchased by a gentleman and never used. There are even never sharpened pencils and NOS 18th. C. files(I'd LOVE to try one out!!). The Newbould(sp?) chisels are still wrapped in original paper. Wrapped for so long that the acid free 18th. C. paper has left lines etched into the polished chisels. They are wrought iron,VERY thin,and steel bitted. I am sure that the saws have punched teeth,but never sharpened for actual use.

I agree with you that no one was going to be sitting around waiting for boards to be planed. There's always something that needs doing. I have read books so full of errors that I could not stand it!!

However,it is a fact that in 1607 Jamestown,gentlemen refused to do any work precisely because in was against them!! There was equal opportunity starving later on,and a bit of cannibalism. A young teenaged girl'
s skeleton showed signs of having been butchered.

I am reading a book about WWII in the Pacific. It is surprising how much cannibalism the Japanese did. Some because they were left to starve on places like New Guinea(150,000) and some where the officers thought eating parts of Americans,such as their liver,would give them their captured enemies' strengths. This is why George Bush was frantically paddling away from a particular island,losing the battle against the current,when he was picked up by an American submarine. The book is "Fly Boys" by Bradley,who also wrote "Flags of our Fathers." Many would not be able to get through that first book.

[Kees Heiden]

No idea about the windmill builders. Probably oak and pine for the construction, because that were normal building woods at that time. They did use hornbeam for the gears.

Maybe you didn't see woodworkers planes because they weren't use much in carpentry?

[lowell holmes]

I assure you that the wooden pieces I saw in the windmills had elaborate carpentry and the wooden blocks were square on six sides. They had drill bits, saws, and chisels displayed at the entrance to the tour, but no planes.

All of the mechanical parts were wooden. The tools were a bit rusty and not in use, just part of the display. I was going to ask, but the crowd was such that I didn't have the opportunity.

Aside from that, the banks of the Rhine from Cologne to Amsterdam were like a park, green with no debris and trash. The weather in August was comfortable and the food was delicious. I would make the trip again in a heart beat.

[Stewie Simpson]

https://hyvelbenk.wordpress.com/category/english/

skokloster castle in Sweden.

[Stewie Simpson]

I can say that in the old days the Master of a decent size shop would have had someone who planed wood all the time: a Joiner.

With respect George; that statement makes little sense.

Stewie;

[lowell holmes]

Stewie, the link you gave us is worthy of spending time on. :)

[Kees Heiden]

Lowell, glad you liked your visit in our small country!

When you thumb through the carpentry sections of books like Moxon, Nicholson, Holmes and the like, you will find remarkably few planes. You see a lot of axes though! These guys wer really good with an axe, an art I'd like to learn some time too. They could shave a timber beam with great accuray with a broad axe. I suspect that in a building like a windmill they wouldn't have cared much about a smooth surface.

The gears and axles was another matter. These were made with great precision. But most of the stuff is in the round. I don't know how they made these things. Boy, more studying to do :rolleyes: