Laser for metal cutting jewelry

[Terry R Peterson]

We currently use a few Epilog lasers to cut acrylic jewelry, and want to move into cutting metal jewelry. Any recommendations on (> $100k) machines for this purpose?

CO2 with gas, Fiber, YAG???? Recommended manufacturer?

If there's an existing thread, please point me that way. Thanks in advance for all your help!

[Braden Todd]

I am biased, but due to experience and can say I love my Kern!! I have their 400 watt laser and the tube when new was 580 watts, it cuts through metal with ease and leaves great edges. I have the 52x100 bed and it works great for full sheets, today I am running 4x10 sheets of stainless steel (there's an extra 2' of bed at the back of the table).

i recommend calling them and ask for Keith, let him know I referred you and he will go out of his way to help you before and after the sale. Also, if you send them your exact material they will run off samples for you so you know what you're getting out of the machine.

I I really can't say enough good things about their machine and company in general!

feel free to pm me if you have any other questions.

Good luck!

Braden

[Paul Phillips]

You need to PM Bruce Boone, he's the man when it comes to laser cut jewelry. Haven't seen him around in awhile, his last post is from 2014 but it gives you an idea of what he's capable of.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?221209-Here-s-my-latest-laser-project&highlight=rings
http://www.boonerings.com/

[Dan Hintz]

You need to PM Bruce Boone, he's the man when it comes to laser cut jewelry. Haven't seen him around in awhile, his last post is from 2014 but it gives you an idea of what he's capable of.
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?221209-Here-s-my-latest-laser-project&highlight=rings
http://www.boonerings.com/

Bruce uses a custom setup with a CNC milling machine as the base (might have been a Mazak), and the cutting head replaced with a fiber laser (400W, if memory serves). This is a (roughly) $100k setup.

[chris szlachetka]

Ztechlaser man ! Head on over to there instagram page to view videos, pics, the machine is incredible ! Next on my list after our new VMC.

[Dave Sheldrake]

CO2 is the wrong type of machine for metal cutting at low power. (above 4,000 watts they are fine)

Go with a fibre gantry at 600 watts, for cheaper metal cutting think of one of the big Chinese units, from memory they run about $80k for a 600 watt that will cut 6mm to 8mm steels easily.

I'm seriously thinking about replacing my Mitsubishi with a couple of lower power fibres.....

[Braden Todd]

CO2 is the wrong type of machine for metal cutting at low power. (above 4,000 watts they are fine)

Go with a fibre gantry at 600 watts, for cheaper metal cutting think of one of the big Chinese units, from memory they run about $80k for a 600 watt that will cut 6mm to 8mm steels easily.

I'm seriously thinking about replacing my Mitsubishi with a couple of lower power fibres.....

Why do you say that about co2 lasers and metal? My Kern is a co2 and it cuts through metal very well, I cut stainless at over 1"/sec at 50 power. I can go faster and use more power but I'm happy with my run times and finish so I go a little "slow"

I did a test once on 11ga steel, before I ran out of time I was at 2"/sec for my speed and plenty more to go.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Steels are reflective at the CO2 wavelength, that's why a 10 watt Fibre will mark steel directly and a 100 watt CO2 won't.

A 400 watt CO2 performs pretty much the same as a 150 watt fibre

[Kev Williams]

I deal with 2 shops that laser cut steel- have no idea the brand or types of machines they use, but I do know both use liquid nitrogen. One shop was using oxygen for awhile because the cost of nitrogen was killing them--

What are you guys using, if anything, as an 'assist', and is there always a need for it?

Just curious :)

[Terry R Peterson]

Thanks for all the input. Since posting, I've continued to do some research. We're a small jewelery company, so size and speed are far less important than cost for now. Full Spectrum offers a CO2 laser capable of cutting non-precious metal for under $30K. The cheapest fiber machines I've found are 6 figures plus. Wish there was more machines in between this range. We'd love to be able to cut precious metal directly, but not plausible with CO2 from my understanding. That leaves us with cutting a base metal and plating it.

[matthew knott]

You can cut precious metal with a low power pulsed fiber laser, but it will take a while and you need multiple repeats and a few other tricks, how much time is to much ??

[Dave Sheldrake]

Full Spectrum offers a CO2 laser capable of cutting non-precious metal for under $30K.

What FS are offering is a CO2 tube that uses a mid powered tube to heat the metal followed by a blast of oxygen to cause an exothermic reaction in the metal to cut. They work well for murdering out basic shapes and sheet cutting but for work that has to then go for plating or other treatment the edge discolouration and oxidation can cause problems.


What are you guys using, if anything, as an 'assist', and is there always a need for it?

I use Nitrogen and Argon for meterials that need a clean low / no oxide edge and Oxygen to increase speeds and deal with some difficult materials. It works a LOT different to a normal air assist and the the nozzle stand off is tiny compared to normal machines (0.5mm to 3mm most of the time)

Gas pressure varies between 60psi and 350 psi, Gas use is by far the single biggest machine running expense I have


The cheapest fiber machines I've found are 6 figures plus.

You can get quite quick Chinese Fibre machines in the 500 watt Range for around $55k imported with 2.5m x 1.5m beds. You can also fit a Sinjoe metal cutting set to pretty much any of the smaller Chinese cabinet machines (from 600 x 900mm upwards) for around $4,000 complete with control cards, mainboard and dynamic follow head. All you need on top of that is a DC tube and PSU that can provide 120 watts plus.

[chris szlachetka]

I'm telling ya check out the Ztechlaser company, roughly 35k for baseline model (capable of cutting .25" Titanium) is the quote I got. I was also told they can make what size/power you need. Not the companies best clips below, much better content is on instagram ! best of luck, hope that helps !



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr4dN_VdIPU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL9Y1nIbWRs

[Chris Edens]

I also spoke to them. Did you ask them how many passes it took to cut .25 Ti? I can tell you that took a long time to cut. When you speak to them they make it sound like it does it one pass but that is not true.

[Kev Williams]

I get sooo many one-off requests for SS ID plates in sizes I don't have handy, and the shear I have can only cut 6" of 20 gauge SS. Otherwise, I'm always special ordering SS plates to be cut... What would be the bomb for ME would be a fiber capable of cutting AND engraving 18 or less gauge stainless, kinda like how a 25w C02 cuts and engraves Rowmark...

[chris szlachetka]

I believe he told me 1-2 pass with the current off the shelf system. I'll double check with him but he did give me an estimate of how long it'd take to cut the blanks I needed and it was like 25mins saved on the MOP. Cutting titanium isn't an easy task, not to mention setup/fixtures needed. Most of my cutters are Altin coated for the CNC's & use a ton of flood coolant. Achieving a square ID 90° (well almost square) & not much need for fixturing was enough for me, opens up so many doors. Most of the stuff I make I jump from machine to machine anyway, but time saved is money made ! The YT videos aren't that great, the real stuff is on the instagram page. lol starting to sound like I sell them. I have no affiliation with the company, but very close to be buying a machine. The company can make whatever you need at whatever wattage as long as you have the funds. IDK guess we'll see, but they've made some pretty exciting stuff.

[Dan Hintz]

I'm telling ya check out the Ztechlaser company, roughly 35k for baseline model (capable of cutting .25" Titanium) is the quote I got. I was also told they can make what size/power you need. Not the companies best clips below, much better content is on instagram ! best of luck, hope that helps !



youtube.com/watch?v=Mr4dN_VdIPU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr4dN_VdIPU)
youtube.com/watch?v=FL9Y1nIbWRs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL9Y1nIbWRs)

I hate to burst the bubble, but those videos are of engraving only (though I love how they show it being done on a sheet with two similarly-sized holes right next to the engraving, leading you to believe the same system did it all). Cutting through that thick brass sheet with a 50W will require many many passes.

[Scott Shepherd]

I hate to burst the bubble, but those videos are of engraving only (though I love how they show it being done on a sheet with two similarly-sized holes right next to the engraving, leading you to believe the same system did it all). Cutting through that thick brass sheet with a 50W will require many many passes.

That, as well as you won't cut straight edges with a Galvo, even if you did have the patience to let it cut all the way through. The angles would be pretty steep.

I'd also be a little careful in recommending a company when you haven't put any hours behind their machinery. They may be great, but at this point, it's all speculation from a sales call and a couple youtube videos.

[Dave Sheldrake]

roughly 35k for baseline model (capable of cutting .25" Titanium


I believe he told me 1-2 pass with the current off the shelf system

Not on this planet unless that Galvo has a 400 watt fibre resonator. Having atmospheric oxygen and nitrogen when cutting Ti is a huge problem on anything past 1 - 2mm thick, it causes a hard oxide layer to form leading to crack propagation due to absorption of the gasses into the metal. Much as I don't like doing Ti I usually do it using Argon-Helium mix and even then it can be a problem.

Typically I'd run 1/4 Ti at 4,000 watts with 240psi of gas pressure for a speed of around 70 inches a minute (1.8m a minute)


but they've made some pretty exciting stuff.

Not really, all looks pretty much the same technology everybody else is doing and in the case of China...cheaper too

[chris szlachetka]

Well I guess we won't know until we try, but have seen and mentioned to checkout the instagram page. I'm gonna try and find a customer that owns one. I just said to check it out, not buy one. :)


Dave I might have some work for you if interested. Shoot me a PM if you can cut CP4 .125" blanks

[Bruce Boone]

Hi guys. My laser is a 450/4500 quasi continuous mode fiber. That means it's 450 watts continuous or up to 4500 watts when pulsed at a 10% duty cycle. Mine can cut through 1/4" titanium, but I have a laser head with pressurized argon to get through it. I don't think it would work with a galvo to get through it. The laser doesn't ablate the material like an engraving laser; it makes it molten and the assist gas blasts it through the material. I think it would simply just melt back in place if a galvo was used. I've tried experiments with engraving with the laser, and it always seems to come down to manipulation of molten metal. You will get a clean engrave in one direction, but the metal blasts out the other direction on a second cut, as it pushes molten metal back to the place you first engraved. It always ends up looking sloppy because of that.

When I cut through material, I normally get a good cut on the sidewalls, but there is always dross on the back side of the cut that needs to be knocked off. In titanium, the material gets hardened, so it's tough to simply sand off, but knocking it off with a file first works fine.

Here's a titanium ring that was made from 4 rings, laser cut, then laser welded.
329695

[Bruce Boone]

Here's some laser cut and YAG engraved stainless plates. If you jewelry guys need some help with some special projects, just let me know.

329696

[Terry R Peterson]

Awesome work Bruce.

Full Spectrum's off the list for me. I sent them a detailed email of our requirements and budget, specifically asking about their "metal cutting laser" for $25K. Their response pretty much ignored my requirements and suggested a $12K galvo (for engraving, even though my requirements specifically said for cutting) and went on to explain why CO2 wasn't a good option for cutting metal. Not very clear marketing since they're advertising the CO2 laser as a metal cutter.

ZTech came back that their iQ30 model would be capable of cutting 1.25mm metal alloys for about $45K.

Before we make any purchases I'll be visiting a showroom to see it in action. We got screwed previously buying a machine based on verbal promises of capabilities. But right now the Ztech is the only machine I've found in budget that (appears to) fit our requirements.

[Dave Sheldrake]

and went on to explain why CO2 wasn't a good option for cutting metal.

Co2 works on metal but at low power (under 200 watts) it also needs Oxygen or a Pulsed firing system. Fibres wavelength is much better

Careful when they say "Metal alloys".....not much under $150k is going anywhere near aluminium and the exotics (for lasers) like Ti and Boron alloys need huge power levels and expensive gasses.


ZTech came back that their iQ30 model would be capable of cutting 1.25mm metal alloys for about $45K.

Just looked at it, in effect it's a 30 watt galvo that is going to take an age to *cut* anything, the machine is really an engraver and while it will cut , at that power level it won't do it very well.

A similar 30 watt Fibre out of China will cost around $8k

If you want to cut precious metals start looking for a 400 watt to 1,000 watt Fibre and expect a price tag of $200k Western or $65k Chinese upwards.

Sorry Terry but they are trying to sell you a machine on what it can do...not what it is practical to do.

[tommy suriady]

Hi All,
Greetings from Indonesia. I have a 1000w coherent fiber laser. it can cut very very small stuffs. We cut 1.5mm thick SUS304 for earring, pendants etc for our customers. we cut 0.5mm SUS430 for watch dials... drop by our website photo gallery to take a look at the stuffs we made for clients. Erm.. I think I cant post websites here if i am not mistaken. But you guys are not my target market. Drop by laserindonesia to look at them.

i think beside the laser, you gotto think very much about the servos and the control system you have. The physical adjustments and alignments of everything got to be right. The blow pressure, the power to speed ratio, the way you are placing your objects gottobe spot-on. we usually cut jewelleries at speed down all the way at 50mm/sec at 30% power for maximum precision, least innertia. but the undersides have to be cleaned up with 500 grids sandpaper, followed by polishing. get very good cnc control interface. no point having power without control. Bigger power means faster cut and less temperature rise, less distortion on material though. But then you will get huge inertia. ouch!

We also have IPG 20w laser on a galvo head. It is very very good at super detailed marking. but dont expect it to cut: you will be pretty disappointed. Unless you are bathing the metal in nitrogen, you are going to get oxidized edge. and though you wont touch it, it will move as the laser heats up the material. if you want to cut at low frequency and clean at higher frequency, it is going to take sooooo long. Maybe you can get a 100w on a galvo head. and get a very long lens to defeat the tappering, but at the cost of your Mrad, hence resolution. Cutting straight line is not really an issue because it is software compensated. But I wonder where all the liquid metals should go. Unless....

you go for MOPA with pico-laser. or maybe femto-laser. they you would be able to vaporize the metal. get a damn good air filter, though... We have a 20w MOPA on galvo too. doesnt seem to cut that deep, though... as soon as you mark deep beyond 0.5mm you are out of focus. 40w would be even better but with longer lens, you loose intensity. Damn confusing.

And make sure you get the right entrapments to hold tight to the material you are cutting. alot of wind and all kinds of forces at work.

100K USD can get you alot of laser. a 1000 w fiber laser generator from SPI and coherent costs much less than that. 500w should be enough for stainless, but not for 3mm brass and copper. get a very good CNC system. lasermech, usa does very good heads for less than 10K, precitec for slightly more. get small marble cutting bed for very high precision. use screw instead of rack and pinion. chiller, compressor and i think you should be pretty set. Of course get somebody to set it up for you. BUt you can do it.

[Dan Hintz]

Some great info in there, Tommy... thanks for chipping in.