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Eric Schubert
01-12-2016, 11:30 PM
Welcome to my journal thread for my very first major build: a workbench!

I plan to add photos and updates as I make progress on the bench build, which may or may not be frequently. It all depends on how it plays out. But, I'm hoping that it'll be a learning experience for both you and me, and that I might get to pick the brain of the great SMC collective from time to time when I have questions.

Here's the plan:

Build a basic workbench that's heavy, has a thick and solid top, with at least one vise. This should get me off and running with other projects as I delve further into hand tool woodworking. I want to get more into boxes, at first. Then make my way into simple furniture, after I develop some of the essential skills (dovetails, mortise and tenon, rabbets, using my hand planes effectively, etc.)

My basic plan is similar to what you'll find here (http://blog.lostartpress.com/2012/04/15/workbench-in-12-easy-pieces/), a basic design for students of Chris Schwarz. I figure that should be plenty to get started. The main differences between my bench and that found in the link will revolve around attaching the base to the top. I want to make sure that I can disassemble this bench, in the event that we move. (We're in a smaller townhome now, so it could happen at some point.) I'm thinking of adding 4x4 pieces to the legs under the top to allow me to attach the top to the base with lag bolts. This would be in lieu of the typical double tenon that is seen on, say, a Roubo-style bench. Any thoughts here would be appreciated. Is this a good idea..? Should I still use some sort of tenon for a better connection to the base?

The vise I have is a Taiwanese copy of one of the Record quick-release vises. It's in great shape, and I added maple jaws to it. Should serve me well here, I hope.

In any case, I picked up my lumber today. It consists of a bunch of reclaimed 4x4 and 6x8 pieces of Douglas Fir, or so I'm told. These were from very large pallets that are used to transport wind turbine components. There are a few bolt holes and nail holes, but I don't anticipate they'll affect the bench much. It won't be the prettiest bench, but I want something functional. It was outside, so I want to give the wood time to warm up and dry out a bit. There were bits of ice and snow on some of the pieces, so I plan to at least wait until this weekend so that the moisture evaporates. Then I'll see how wet the wood is. (I do not have a moisture meter, sadly...)

So, that's where I am currently with this project. To finish things off, here's a shot of the wood that I picked up. The pieces with the angles on them will get cut down for the legs. The long pieces on the right will be laminated into a 24"x8"x6' bench top (maybe longer, if I can). And the 4x4's on the floor will be the supporting cross pieces to add rigidity to the bench, and possibly places to bolt the top onto the base. FYI: 6x8 lumber is HEAVY. Each of those 7-footers on the right is likely around 100lbs.

Any advice to a newbie woodworker on this bench concept?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/Bench%201%20-%20The%20Wood_zpst34uirwm.jpg

Allen Jordan
01-13-2016, 12:13 AM
Looks like a good start. I still don't have a proper bench, it's going to be my next big project. That wood is unlikely to dry for a long time since it's been outside in the weather (unless it was only outside for a short period). If you start building now, it will likely warp, crack, and shrink a lot during and after the project. The rule of thumb is one year of drying per inch of thickness for green wood... this would be less, but certainly much longer than a few days.

Brian Holcombe
01-13-2016, 12:15 AM
8" thick :eek:

Any reason why you do not use the 6" side to make the thickness?

Phil Mueller
01-13-2016, 12:19 AM
Good luck with your build! Regarding the portability question, just make the mortise and tenon joints for the leg to top joinery and set the top in place. No real need to glue or bolt it in place...the weight alone is enough. My top is 2' x 6' x 3 1/2" thick and it doesn't move at all. Several other SMC folks suggested that to me as I was building my bench and it has worked out very well.

Eric Schubert
01-13-2016, 1:04 AM
Thanks, guys!

Allen, the wood was advertised as kiln-dried. The place I bought them from was getting a ton of huge pallets in, so they're dismantling these and turning them around fairly quickly. I don't think they've been outside very long. It's not terribly wet, but we did just get snow. So they got some snow on them when moving the boards around. I just want to make sure the surfaces dry out. Hopefully when I cut into them they'll be dry.

Brian, I definitely will be using the 6" side for the thickness. I'm going to laminate 3 of the 6x8 boards together to make a 24" wide top. Well...probably smaller since I'll plane it smooth, but close enough. Even if I plane it down to 5" thick, I'm guessing that's still overkill.

Phil, I've considered doing the mortise and tenon. I just don't want the top to move as I work. But, you're probably right, it wouldn't go anywhere. So, maybe I will still do that. Thanks!

Kees Heiden
01-13-2016, 1:51 AM
My top is loose on the tenons too. 9 cm thick and light weight fir. It doesn't move, plenty heavy enough. Your 6" will be rock solid without any screws or glue.

Christopher Charles
01-13-2016, 2:18 AM
I built my bench based on the bench crafted design using their bench bolts. The bench is about 400 lbs, is overkill, and yet can break into components I can move myself. Top sits on loose tenons as well. You can read more than you want about the details here

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?169730-Is-the-Klausz-Frid-Scand-Bench-Dead

might consider a split top of two pieces with the front two glued and the third, back piece for mobility's sake. Though I'll likely glue mine together sometime soon.

If you are unsure if the wood will move as it dries, I'd suggest starting with the base as some movement there will be less of an issue.

will look forward to the build.

C

Pat Barry
01-13-2016, 8:10 AM
... I want to make sure that I can disassemble this bench, in the event that we move. (We're in a smaller townhome now, so it could happen at some point.) http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/Bench%201%20-%20The%20Wood_zpst34uirwm.jpg
If you seriously intend to move this beast then you need to figure out how you will lift a "laminated 24"x8"x6' bench top". Lets go with you 100 pound estimate for the beams - 4 of those to make the 24" width will be about 400 lbs. Good luck: 1) assembling your bench (no doubt several times you will need to put it together, take it apart during construction), 2) finding friends to help you move it.

There is no reason to have a bench that thick IMO. 4 inch thickness is still overkill but since its Doug Fir I could live with that I suppose.

Karl Andersson
01-13-2016, 8:25 AM
Hi Eric,
I built my Scandi bench out of Doug Fir 4x4s from the BORG several years ago and it's held up pretty well, although it probably dings more easily than a hardwood bench. My top sits on crosspieces at the tops of the trestles like you mention, and there's no tenon to prevent sliding, so I used a single 3/4" diameter lag bolt through each trestle top, about 6" in from the front face so the top would stay flush with the frame below as the top expanded and shrank seasonally in my unheated shop. I didn't smooth the whole bottom, just the two crossways paths that the trestles would contact (basically dadoes in the underside of the top). It has worked fine, and the tusk tenons worked out very well too, as they haven't loosened since its initial construction, so technically it is portable even if I haven't moved it.

Two things to consider regarding the thickness and board orientation:

if you go much over 3.5" thick, you may have difficulty getting holdfasts to work (at least the Gramercy ones), although some report that slightly larger holes or counterbores under the top to bring it locally to about 3.5" will solve the problem. You likely WILL want holdfasts if not now, then after a short time of use.

The thickness of your top - whether 6" or 8" at this point- should be determined by the ring orientation in your wood. Especially with a softwood top, I think it is important that the growth rings are perpendicular (or as much as possible) to the plane of the bench surface - the hard rings provide the bearing surface for your work, the soft rings tend to compact between them. If you orient the rings parallel to the surface so you're working on a plain-sawn or "cathedral pattern", I think the soft wood would wear too easily and the hard rings would tend to catch on clothing, workpieces, etc., and tear out - likely even during your initial flattening of the benchtop. Either way, you might end up ripping the 8x6's down to something more manageable or with better ring orientation... don't mean to make more work for you, but DF is plenty rigid; if I were going to use that wood (after using my bench for a while) I'd make the base from the 8x6 lumber and use the 4x4s for the top so it had a heavy, low center of gravity - but you've already bought the wood with a plan, so let us know how it turns out
Karl
my bench:
329244

Eric Schubert
01-13-2016, 10:45 AM
Thanks, guys. I really appreciate the feedback. I'm starting to rethink my bench top idea of laminating all the 6x8's. Looking back, I probably should have went with the 4x4's, but I'd rather not buy more 4x4's and spend more on lumber. So, I'll try to make do with what I have already.

What about if I just laid all three of the 6x8's on top of the base, clamp them together, and then use a single lag bolt on each end of each board to bolt them to the base? Would that work okay? Or would I run into issues with that setup? (e.g. gaps opening up, lack of stability because of only one bolt, etc.)

Brian Holcombe
01-13-2016, 11:01 AM
5" is probably still way overkill, but depending on how the grain looks I'd probably take the best two of those 6x8's and rip them down to 4x6 then process them down....if you wind up at 3.5" x 5.5" then laminate them you could wind up at 3.5" x 22" which would be pretty awesome and still have 6x8's left over for legs, which I'd probably mill down to something like 5x5 and use the cut offs for stretchers.

3.5 x 22" by 7 can probably be handled by two men. 6" x 24" x 7' may become a perminant part of your house...

In other words, you can probably get the entire bench out of the 6x8's with some planning, and have a very stout bench that is actually moveable.

I work by myself, and so I tend to avoid making things that I can't flip around or move in some manner entirely on my own. My bench top pushed the limit of that once all of the vises and so forth were added.

Phil Stone
01-13-2016, 11:24 AM
if you go much over 3.5" thick, you may have difficulty getting holdfasts to work (at least the Gramercy ones), although some report that slightly larger holes or counterbores under the top to bring it locally to about 3.5" will solve the problem. You likely WILL want holdfasts if not now, then after a short time of use.


Yes, I wouldn't worry about this aspect of top thickness. If you counterbore one inch diameter or slightly larger holes from the bottom, so that there is about 3-3-1/2" length of 3/4" inch diameter hole from the top, holdfasts (specifically the Gramercy ones) hold just great.

Eric Schubert
01-13-2016, 11:26 AM
Boy, I don't know that I want to think about ripping boards that thick and long by hand... I only really have hand tools. I do have a small contractor-type table saw that may help. But getting a 100lb board on that little saw could be...interesting. To say the least. And it won't cut all the way through, with only a 10" blade.

But the idea of cutting the 6x8's down to 4x6's is intriguing... and I'd have lumber left over, in case I needed it for another bench or something.

Oh, I did forget to mention earlier, I do have a pair of the Grammercy holdfasts already. I also have a Veritas surface vise. Definitely looking to add dog holes in the top.

I also planned to make the bench movable with casters. I'd likely make them fold down under the legs for moving around, then fold out of the way to set the bench on the bottom of the legs to keep it in one spot. Something like this. (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/the-easiest-way-to-make-your-bench-mobile) But, I imagine that might be extremely difficult to manipulate with a 6" thick bench top.
(http://www.popularwoodworking.com/workbenches/schwarz-workbenches/the-easiest-way-to-make-your-bench-mobile)

David Eisenhauer
01-13-2016, 11:38 AM
Brian and Pat have laid it out pretty well in a real world fashion. 3-1/2" to 4" is plenty thick enough for working on. I wonder if you could ever tell any difference between working on 3-1/2" or 6"-8" and you are going to have to move/flip/handle the top as you are fabbing it up. I would not install the top as three separate boards and feel that you really need to join them into a single piece. Joining the top to the base via tennon on the tops of the legs fitting into mortises on the bottom surface of the top is a time tested design. As someone else up above stated, perhaps start on the base and let the top material continue to dry. You may want to have a look at the designs put out by the "workbench" books written by Scott Landis and Chris Schwartz or purchase the Benhcrafted plan for ideas. You have a good start in acquiring some beefy timber, now maybe have a look at some very workable ideas for design. At any rate, I believe you are going to end up with something that will be solid to work on.

ken hatch
01-13-2016, 11:48 AM
I'll add to the others, if you work alone and/or want to move the bench a split top is the best way to go. I've built both symmetrical and asymmetrical slabs as well as solid, of the three I find asymmetrical is the better option. The working (front) slab on my current bench is approximately 470mm wide with the back slap being a touch over 200mm. Giving a 25" or so (in American) total top surface. Each slab is narrow enough to run through many home shop planers and is possible, not easy but possible, for one man to move around during the build. While building a bench it is a PITA to have to get help, much better if you can do it without another set of muscles.

Each slab has housed M/T joint at the legs that are pegged but not glued and a Spaz screw through the short stretcher and the off side of the slab. You couldn't move that sucker with a "Jimmy" but it could break down into moveable pieces.

From a working stand point, having a split top is no different than a solid slab plus it offers more clamping options and with a well designed "split fill" a convenient place to hold some of your tools while working. It is pretty much win win.

Good luck,

ken

Eric Schubert
01-13-2016, 11:56 AM
Ken and David, thanks for your feedback!

I do have a workbench book from Chris Schwarz. I'll pull it out again for another read to see if there are any things that can help me out.

I had considered the idea of a split top. I definitely like the extra clamping options it brings. How wide of a split between slabs would be ideal? Splitting up the top like that would definitely make it easier to disassemble in the future. And I've wanted to try the double through-tenon/dovetail that is typical of many benches. So, that could be a fun way to accomplish both goals.

Derek Cohen
01-13-2016, 12:23 PM
Hi Eric

My bench build is here, if it helps promote questions, rather than answers ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/index.html

Unless you are 6'6" tall with gorilla arms, I'd advise a bench about 21-22" wide. More than this is difficult to reach across.

For reference, the top is 3 1/2" European Oak.

Bench height also creates much controvesy. I followed the thoughts of CS, but in retrospect I think he is incorrect, and have raised it 2". The added height is better on the back.

Keep us posted.

Derek

Eric Schubert
01-13-2016, 12:49 PM
Thanks, Derek! I'll have to read through your bench build. It's different than my basic design, but I'm sure I'll find many helpful tidbits in those pages.

A little bit of searching later and it sounds like a 3-4" gap in a split top is pretty good. Since my bench will be in the middle of the room, I'm not too worried about depth. So, I could go with a symmetrical split. Maybe a pair of 10-11" slabs, 3-4" thick, with a 4" gap in the middle for clamping. I'd also likely make a small sliding tool tray that can sit in that gap to hold a few items while I'm working, but still slide out of my way when I need to clamp something.

Karl Andersson
01-14-2016, 8:11 AM
I wouldn't try to rip something that thick with a table saw unless it was a beast of a saw - not only would you likely bind the blade while trying to muscle the wood over it, but the wood may move (twist, warp) as it's cut - even a little and the blade is pinched. I've had success ripping 6x8 and 8x8 treated lumber using a handheld 7 1/4" circular saw with a rip fence attached and a rough cut blade (about 3/16" kerf). Thick wood loves to move as you cut it, especially wet treated lumber- you need to be ready to lift the blade out when you hear it start binding, and don't have your face/ leg right behind it in case it kicks back. I did have to rescue the blade once with a wedge... and the 8x8 lumber had about an inch left between cuts which I took care of with an unpowered rip saw.

If you don't have a circular saw, you can rent one at HD or other rental place - just make sure it has the rip fence in the box. I recommend you screw a 1x4 about a foot long to the fence to keep the blade as straight as possible as you go -and use the same side of the wood as your reference side when you flip the beam to cut from the other side. Don't try to cut the max depth at once -depending on how dry your wood is inside, take 2 or 3 passes (the dryer, the faster). No need to rush - this bench will be with you for a long time.

Or, make friends with someone who has a large bandsaw... like Brian, I tend to work alone, so this was my solution
good luck
Karl

Christopher Charles
01-14-2016, 11:25 AM
+1 on friend with a bandsaw. Or a local cabinet shop may be able to do the rips for a nominal cost.

Eric Schubert
01-14-2016, 11:32 AM
Thanks, Karl. We do have a bandsaw at work that I could likely use, but we only have metal-cutting blades, so that's not a good choice... I do have a circular saw with a new-ish blade that should do fairly well. It does not have a rip fence, though. However, I can clamp a straight edge onto the surface to use as a guide.

My main concern is that I live in a townhome that has other units attached and nearby. I really don't want to annoy my neighbors by cutting outside. Plus that means having to move those heavy hunks of wood upstairs again. Even though our homes are pretty well-insulated from noise, I also don't want to use the saw inside and spray sawdust all over our basement (and consequently, around our home as it's pulled into the HVAC system). I'm thinking I may have little choice but to rip these by hand. :(

Oh well, it'll give me some experience with ripping large boards, and also help with getting down my sawing technique. I have a couple of hand saws that should work fine for this job. TPI may be a bit fine for this size of log (maybe around 6-8tpi), but that's fine.

On a side note, I spent a couple hours last night sharpening up some plane blades to prepare for surfacing all of the lumber. I now have a couple blades for my #4 and I finally sharpened up my #7C.

I actually had a bit of an "ah-ha!" moment last night when I sharpened up that #7C. I've read many people discussing how certain stones or sharpening methods work better for different steels. And I finally found out for myself how true that is. I was sharpening up a brand new PM-V11 blade for my #4, and it was definitely slower going than other blades I've done. It was already very flat on the back side, and getting a burr was pretty easy, but it took a while to do on finer grits than I'm used to. Then I grabbed the blade from my #7C, which is probably an original blade. Someone had already put some camber on it, but it was a bit rusty and chipped and needed to have some metal removed to get a good bevel again. That steel must have been quite soft, because metal came off easily on my DMT coarse diamond plate. Once I had that cambered bevel smoothed out again, it was easy to get it nice and sharp.

Now, I also need practice sharpening. (I currently use the DMT Coarse for rough work, then have a 1K Naniwa SS, and honing/lapping film for the rest of the finer grits.) I'm learning to sharpen freehand, rather than using a guide. Though I do have flat and cambered rollers for my Veritas MKII honing guide I can use in a pinch. So my camber isn't a perfect radius. But it should be sufficient to get the job done so I can move on to my smoother.

Anyway, just a little anecdote. But I finally got to see and feel what others were saying for myself. Might be time to get a coupe good stones, like the Sigma Power ceramics, to take my sharpening to another level.

ken hatch
01-14-2016, 12:20 PM
Ken and David, thanks for your feedback!

I do have a workbench book from Chris Schwarz. I'll pull it out again for another read to see if there are any things that can help me out.

I had considered the idea of a split top. I definitely like the extra clamping options it brings. How wide of a split between slabs would be ideal? Splitting up the top like that would definitely make it easier to disassemble in the future. And I've wanted to try the double through-tenon/dovetail that is typical of many benches. So, that could be a fun way to accomplish both goals.

Eric,

The split on the current bench is 55mm, the one before 65mm. Of the two I prefer the 55mm split.

ken

Eric Schubert
01-16-2016, 11:36 AM
Thanks, Ken. That will give me an idea of how large I'll need to make my base.

I did start working on smoothing out and squaring the rough lumber for the legs. I have to say, working on such large pieces is quite a bit of work! I thought the Douglas fir would be pretty easy to work with, but it's actually been somewhat the opposite. The boards have a few knots in them, which refuse to plane down. The iron will just glide over the top of them without digging in, leaving them higher than the rest of the surface. I ended up needing to try my scraper for the first time to see if that would knock those areas down. (It did, albeit slowly.) I now have two of the legs fairly square and straight. I don't plan to completely flatten the surfaces that will face the inside of the bench, unless that would be a wise idea. But, I did smooth all sides of the boards and put a radius on all the corners. I also marked which sides were parallel so I make sure to have them facing outward to line up with the edge of the top.

I'm sure I need to sharpen my irons again, but is this pretty normal for knotty areas to be difficult to get the iron to take shavings? Other areas of the board seemed to plane just fine.

Nicholas Lawrence
01-16-2016, 11:54 AM
I'm sure I need to sharpen my irons again, but is this pretty normal for knotty areas to be difficult to get the iron to take shavings? Other areas of the board seemed to plane just fine.

When I am doing the initial work to flatten or square something, I am usually looking to take fairly coarse (thick) shavings. You will probably not be able to do take thick cuts over a large knot, but a sharp plane should be able to take a light cut over a knot with no problem. Here is a photo I just took from a a bench (for sitting, not working) I recently built. It is a nameless "white wood" (spruce I think), and this is the kind of knot I am talking about. It will degrade your iron pretty quickly to plane that sort of thing, so touch things up frequently. A scraper is not really a good tool for flattening or squaring, it is more for finishing.

329486

Robert Hazelwood
01-16-2016, 12:22 PM
Thanks, Ken. That will give me an idea of how large I'll need to make my base.

I did start working on smoothing out and squaring the rough lumber for the legs. I have to say, working on such large pieces is quite a bit of work! I thought the Douglas fir would be pretty easy to work with, but it's actually been somewhat the opposite. The boards have a few knots in them, which refuse to plane down. The iron will just glide over the top of them without digging in, leaving them higher than the rest of the surface. I ended up needing to try my scraper for the first time to see if that would knock those areas down. (It did, albeit slowly.) I now have two of the legs fairly square and straight. I don't plan to completely flatten the surfaces that will face the inside of the bench, unless that would be a wise idea. But, I did smooth all sides of the boards and put a radius on all the corners. I also marked which sides were parallel so I make sure to have them facing outward to line up with the edge of the top.

I'm sure I need to sharpen my irons again, but is this pretty normal for knotty areas to be difficult to get the iron to take shavings? Other areas of the board seemed to plane just fine.

I've worked a bit with Douglas Fir and it is quite a bit more resistant to planing than something like white pine. Some boards seem tougher to plane than an average piece of oak or cherry.

The plane riding over knots sounds like a sharpness issue. Hitting the knots can dull the edge, and then the dull edge rides over the knots and cuts inconsistently - a vicious cycle. I wonder what shaving thickness you are using. When your blade is lacking some sharpness, it can actually be easier to take thicker shavings than thin.

I like to use two planes when I'm doing a lot of flattening work- a #7 with a moderately cambered blade to take medium-thick shavings, and a #8 with a barely-cambered blade to do final passes with thinner shavings. I also have a jack plane with a heavily cambered blade for hogging off wood if necessary. The jack and #7 will cut for a long while without re-sharpening - especially the jack. If the #8 is set for a fine shaving, then I have to sharpen it more often or else it starts behaving badly, not taking shavings where I think it should, etc. But having the different planes means I can do the bulk with the #7, which saves me having to sharpen as often during a flattening session (the flattening also gets done quicker using thicker shavings).

I guess what I am saying is, sharpen your irons, then consider using a heavier cut. You may need to put a larger camber on the iron to facilitate that heavier cut. Consider dedicating one plane for this.

Also, I'm not sure exactly what you mean about the inside surfaces not being fully flattened, but if you have any joinery on those surfaces then you'll want to get them pretty flat. They don't need to be pretty, but you'll want to get rid of twist, make sure its parallel to the outside face, and get rid of any bumps. You can probably live with some hollows on that inside face as long as they don't occur where you want to place a mortise or something.

Joe A Faulkner
01-16-2016, 1:13 PM
To your question about options for attaching the top in a way that is strong and secure, I pretty much took an approach similar to what you were thinking and it has proven to be quite stout and yet avoids being semi-permanently attached to the frame. Rather than chopping the mortise all the way through the top, I just made them 1 3/4" deep. The top is then dry fitted over the legs and one lag bolt at each end of the bench is used to draw the top down a bit. As you noted this requires an additional stretcher running from your front legs to the back legs along the top of the base frame. Note: one implication of adding these stretchers is that it impacts the clearance for an end vise or tail vise, depending on the design of the vise and how much your bench extends beyond the legs. For instance, I think the Veritas Twin Screw needs 16" of clearance, and if you design your bench with 12" of overhang, the upper stretchers wind up reducing your clearance to 12".

Brian Holcombe
01-16-2016, 9:42 PM
Eric, I would recommend a try plane for 95% of the roughing work, short of heavy stock removal. Set it to a moderate cut and keep it sharp and slightly cambered.

Are you you setting up reference faces at this stage?

Eric Schubert
01-17-2016, 10:26 AM
Brian, I've found the faces of these large boards to be mostly straight and square, which makes my job a lot easier. But yes, I'm smoothing them out and setting up reference surfaces.

I'm of the assumption that the kegs don't need to be perfectly smooth or flat, but I do want the faces pretty square so that everything comes together correctly during assembly.

Chris Hachet
01-18-2016, 7:21 AM
Brian, I've found the faces of these large boards to be mostly straight and square, which makes my job a lot easier. But yes, I'm smoothing them out and setting up reference surfaces.

I'm of the assumption that the kegs don't need to be perfectly smooth or flat, but I do want the faces pretty square so that everything comes together correctly during assembly.

Would be my approach....

Eric Schubert
01-18-2016, 10:12 PM
Didn't make a ton of progress tonight on the workbench. However, I did discover a serious issue with how I sharpened my plane irons that hampered my previous session of planing: I sharpened my irons too steeply.

I tried sharpening freehand, but wasn't paying enough attention to my sharpening angle. Because I sharpened so steeply, the irons bottomed out on the top edge of the bevel and were just gliding over the surface of the wood. That's why it was so difficult.

So, tonight I resharpened a couple of my irons using my Veritas MKII honing guide. I first did my PM-V11 blade for my #4, then I took on the wider cambered blade on my #7 after switching to my guide's cambered roller. And, boy did those irons ever turn out sharp! And being at the proper angle, they actually took nice shavings, too! Now I can breathe a sigh of relief, since this project won't be nearly as arduous as I was anticipating after my first couple of boards. (I may go back and smooth them out again, now that I know why they were so difficult...)

Anyway, I did manage to smooth out one side of my third board tonight. This one I tried to get nice and flat, and I kept it pretty square to the neighboring face. Now I have a solid face to go from next time.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-01-18%20-%20Making%20shavings%201_zpssrr2rcfu.jpg

Notice the nice, curly shavings..? Much better than last time!

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-01-18%20-%20Making%20shavings%202_zpso2dp7jng.jpg

Eric Schubert
01-23-2016, 1:12 PM
The other night I got the third board smoothed out and squared up. I have to say, it's a lot easier with the properly-sharpened irons. Made a lot more shavings for just a single board this time, about an entire plastic tote bin full. But, I'm feeling more confident now that I know I can get the legs done.

I hope to get more done this weekend. Maybe I'll go back and re-smooth the first two boards before anything else. Looks like this will be a fairly lengthy project. (That's actually good, as it'll keep me busy for a little while.)

David Eisenhauer
01-23-2016, 6:13 PM
Outstanding curlies. It looks like your planning progress is in the "leaps and bounds" area right now. More photos as you go along please.

Eric Schubert
01-23-2016, 6:31 PM
Thanks, David! Those long curly shavings are actually from my #7C. I'll continue taking photos as I go.

I did get the pair of 6x8's I want to use for my top each ripped in half today. I cheated and went with my table saw for these cuts, as I really didn't want to rip them by hand. I ended up doing about a 3" deep cut through the center, and then did the same on the opposite side after flipping the board the long way. Worked fine, but still plenty of cleanup to do there.

Just moving those two big beams around got me tired, so I'm not sure if I'll do more this weekend or not. But either way, I might want to touch up my irons before heading into more planing. At least on my #4. I wonder if changing the bevel to 30 degrees would make it easier. Or perhaps putting just a touch of camber on the blade..? It's flat right now, with the corners rounded so the tracks aren't as bad.

Brian Holcombe
01-23-2016, 6:50 PM
A slight camber will help. You may want to be at 30 degrees, but I wouldn't worry about it. My western blades are all at 35. I work mostly hardwoods, but it's fine on softwoods as well. The important part is that the chips should come straight out of the plane (not rolling up) that's about the only way i have found to get a clear finish on Doug fir..

Minimizing tear out is important even in the rough and medium planes. When you are working those large beams when they begin to get close to flat you will only want to be taking a few nice passes.

David Eisenhauer
01-23-2016, 8:13 PM
The thing about final cutting angles on plane irons is that it is easy to experiment by using a micro bevel as the final cutting angle. Lots of folks grind (by hand or power grind) a primary bevel of around 25 deg, then use their finest sharpening stone to add in a 30 or 35 deg secondary or micro bevel at the very tip end (cutting end) of the plane iron. This micro bevel need only be a sixteenth or so deep into the edge of the plane iron and does not take many passes over the stone to create. If it is not working as well as what was on there before, it is not much work to go back to that or try another angle.

Eric Schubert
01-23-2016, 8:31 PM
The PM-V11 blade came with a cutting bevel of 35 degrees, so I figured I would try it out. The metal came off fairly easily when I sharpened up the blade, so I don't think taking it down to 30 degrees would be very difficult. I think I'll stick with the 35 degrees, but maybe put a small amount of camber on it and see how it works. I need to sharpen up anyway, so why not try it?

Stewie Simpson
01-23-2016, 9:33 PM
Eric. Having a 35* primary bevel on a Bd iron is quite unusual. More commonly found on a Bu plane to achieve an approach angle of 47*. All the best with the work bench build. Look forward to following your progress.

Stewie;

Eric Schubert
01-28-2016, 9:34 AM
Made some more shavings. I apologize for no photos this time around, but my image host has been acting up the past couple days and their site is basically unusable right now.

I went back and squared up one of the first two boards I worked on. This went much faster with the properly-sharpened irons. I also learned a fair amount just through using my planes about how they function to make a surface flat. It's amazing what you can learn by actually using your tools, right? :cool:

I then went to work on my second of the first two boards, and I think I'm going to just pick another one instead. This board has knots in it that are very hard and difficult to plane. Even with the sharp irons, those areas are raised up and the plane doesn't want to dig in and shave the area down. Plus, all sides still require quite a bit of work. So, I'll probably just pick out one of the extra 6x8's that I have that doesn't have these knots, and just cut a leg section from it to use instead of this one.

I'll save this knotty board for something else later on.

Eric Schubert
01-28-2016, 7:02 PM
Looks like the image host is behaving again. Some photos of the "action".

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/1-26-16%20-%20shavings_zpsowht6rnu.jpg

The pieces for one side of the split top. Looks like I'll already have a few counterbored holes for bench dogs or holdfasts.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/1-26-16%20-%20top%20pieces%20close-up_zpskt071im4.jpg

The difficult knots I tried and failed to plane flat. Everything inside the circle is too high.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/3f8a2b27-798b-4b2d-b7b6-2f9bd6d3937a_zpsxw906bfm.jpg

Eric Schubert
01-30-2016, 10:07 PM
Got a little bit more done this morning. I started work my third leg piece. I ended up just grabbing the fourth short 6x8 and went at it. It has a lot fewer knots in it than the previous one I tried working. So, this is going much better already. I ended up squaring two sides in the time that I had. Hopefully I'll finish up the rest tomorrow or Monday. Then I'll start working on the pieces for the stringers. Those should go fairly quickly, since they're quite a bit smaller, at around 3x3 or so.

I know this part isn't terribly exciting, but it's my understanding that the prep stages are very important to ensure quality in the final product. Hopefully there's not too much boredom floating around out there...

On a completely unrelated side note, I'm very excited to have planted seeds for my super hot peppers tonight. They're slower growers, so need a longer starting period.

Eric Schubert
03-11-2016, 1:18 AM
Well, not much to really show, but I finally got back to making shavings on my bench tonight after finishing my side project. It took a while, but I finally flattened out the first face of the final leg of the bench. Seems like setting up the first reference surface takes the longest amount of time...

If anyone's curious, here's the side project I made for my wife for V-day.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Jewelry%20Box/Jewelry%20Chest%20-%20Finished%202_zps7qnt1sht.jpg

Nick Stokes
03-11-2016, 9:34 AM
Nice box. Good luck with the peppers.

Keep using those planes, and before you know it, you'll feel confident enough to try anything.


I built my workbench with a 5" thick DougFir top. It's a heavy joker, and it was physically demanding at the time... However, I'm glad I have it now.

Eric Schubert
03-11-2016, 8:55 PM
Thanks, Nick! I can already tell that the practice is making a difference. I still have a long way to go, but it's helping a lot already just to use my planes and get used to them.

Matt Evans
03-12-2016, 7:51 AM
The difficult knots I tried and failed to plane flat. Everything inside the circle is too high.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/3f8a2b27-798b-4b2d-b7b6-2f9bd6d3937a_zpsxw906bfm.jpg

I have that problem occasionally. My solution is normally to use a smoother or a block plane to knock down the high spot, then go over it again with my #7. The block plane works well on knots, probably due to the low angle, though it takes a finer shaving.

I have found that I don't seem to get the same high spots if I rough it all out with a heavily cambered blade, then take very light passes to clean up. If there are knots or twisted grain I move the plane faster to let the momentum of the plane work in my favor against the change in the woods hardness.

Eric Schubert
03-12-2016, 7:00 PM
Thanks, Matt. I had considered breaking out the block plane. But, since I had extra pieces of wood, I just decided to work on a different one without the knots in it. But, that will be good information when I come back to that piece at some point and have to deal with them.

Chris Hachet
03-14-2016, 7:27 AM
Thanks, Nick! I can already tell that the practice is making a difference. I still have a long way to go, but it's helping a lot already just to use my planes and get used to them.

It took me awhile to get the feel for them also. But now, I rarely harm an electron in my shop....

Tom Bussey
03-14-2016, 4:06 PM
Why not put a stretcher a crossed the top of the legs also. The put two cleats on the underside so they are touching the stretchers at the top. Screw the cleats on . you will have to elongate all the holes except for the first screw. That way the top just sets there on the legs. To move the bench all that is needed is to lift the top off and if you make the legs knock down you can mode it very nicely. Most benches are never built with moving to a different location and or fasten it to a wall also and then they have a mess.

This is just my personal opinion but I feel a person should be able to work on all four sides of a workbench.

Eric Schubert
03-15-2016, 1:19 AM
Tom, I was actually planning to put a stretcher across the tops of the legs so that I could lag screw the top slabs down to them, making a split top. I might still do the double dovetail/tenon joint on the outer edges, just because I'd like to try it. But, the top slabs will rest on the stretchers, and I'd still use lag screws to hold the slabs down.

I also plan to put the casters on the legs such that I can lift and roll the bench around, if I need to. That way I can keep it in the center of the open area and work on all sides (I very much agree with you on this!), but I can also roll it out of the way if I need more room for some other reason.

I've also poked around a bit on bench styles, and I like the concept of the Roubo and 21st Century benches. I want to be able to clamp through the center of the bench. But, I also was intrigued by making a box or two to sit in the gap for holding items, or so I can flip them upside down and use them to fill the gap and make a full work surface without a gap in it.

Eric Schubert
03-20-2016, 10:44 AM
So, managed to get just a bit more done on the final leg of my bench. Unfortunately, the second side I'm working on is significantly convex, so it's going to take some time to get it flattened out. It's getting there, but I tired out before I could finish it. I'd say I need to take the center down by somewhere between 1/4" and 1/2" to get it flattened out.

Eric Schubert
04-03-2016, 1:01 PM
Really just updating my journal here, not much exciting. Finally got back to it a bit. I put in a couple of hours working on flattening the convex side of that board again. It's nearly there, but I just ran out of gas. Next time I should have that side flattened and squared.

Eric Schubert
05-19-2016, 12:35 PM
I finally got off my butt and started working on my bench again. I've been sidetracked by various other projects, traveling, and so on. It feels good to make progress again. The final leg of the bench needs some serious flattening and squaring. I managed to get the second side flattened (the first side was already done). Then, I went back and checked the first side again and it was twisted. I'm not sure if moisture released and the wood moved, or if I just hadn't checked it for twist, yet. In any case, I'll need to go back and redo that face again.

Eric Schubert
06-01-2016, 2:12 AM
More work on the bench build today. About two hours. I have 3 of the 4 sides of the final leg smooth and square. I ended up having to re-square one of the other faces, as it was a bit off. It should be pretty close now. Only one more face of this leg to finish and I can start work on assembling the two sections of the bench top. The legs will still need to be cut to length before assembly, but I'll take care of that when it's time to begin assembling the base.

Eric Schubert
07-14-2016, 12:21 PM
Things have been busy this summer, but I can't really make excuses for not working on this project more often. I've just been lazy.

However, I got off my butt and finally finished squaring up the last leg of my bench. They still need to be cut to length, but I'll worry about that later. My next task is to start working on the bench top slabs. I'll smooth and straighten an edge on each board that will be glued to its neighbor. Then I'll start gluing up the two pairs into slabs before I smooth them out. Once they've been glued, I'll then start smoothing out the rest of the faces.

Joe A Faulkner
07-14-2016, 7:08 PM
If you are not in a hurry you might want to glue up your first pair, and then add one board at a time to that slab. This approach will give you the best shot at getting each piece aligned nicely with the slab and minimize the planing that might be required if you build up the top by joining pairs. A pair will be fairly rigid, of course if all the boards are nice and flat and true and retain that feature from one day to the next the this is not much of an issue, but if you have to "pull" things together a bit then adding one board at a time will give you the most flexibility. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Eric Schubert
07-14-2016, 7:37 PM
Weird... My last post got deleted somehow.

Anyway.

Joe, thanks for the suggestion. But, I plan to have two separate slabs for a split top. Each part will be only a pair of boards, so no need to glue up multiple times. Otherwise, I'd definitely use the method you've described.

On a side note, I noticed clamps were on sale at Harbor Freight today, so I went and snagged a bunch. My clamps aren't really appropriate for woodworking anyway. And I needed a bunch more to glue my top together. So timing perfect. I also grabbed wood glue.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/Clamps_zpsnpunxjyx.jpg

Eric Schubert
07-14-2016, 10:47 PM
I did a dry-fit test run, and things seemed to be pretty close. I figured my gaps would close up with clamping pressure. Overall, I'm happy with the glue-up, aside from the fact that these two boards were of different thicknesses. (They're from the same 6x8 beam, so I must have just ripped it in half off-center a little.) Otherwise, I got a glue bead nearly the entire length of the seam. It was hard to check the underside, but I think it was similar there. I had one or two small gap areas that wouldn't quite close up, but I imagine it should suffice. It's tough to get a nice, straight edge with hand planes (especially for a beginner), so I'm pretty happy with it.

Also, it's really good that I got all of those clamps! You can definitely tell they're not professional quality, but they're better than what I had. And, I believe Paul Sellers mentioned stuffing the center of the extrusion with wood to stiffen the clamps a bit more. I may just end up doing that.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/Glue-up%201_zpstae3uavq.jpg

Eric Schubert
07-20-2016, 12:08 AM
Time for another update.

This afternoon I managed to smooth and flatten both halves of my second bench top slab. Then I glued them together. This time the glue-up went more smoothly, because I was more mindful of gaps and trying to eliminate them during my dry run.

Next thing I need to do is start planning out my base. I have 4x4 boards for it, but I don't know how picky I will be with straightening them out. I'll square and smooth the sides, but I think straightening them out might be more trouble than it's worth. The length of each board may make that impossible, if there's too much of a bow. If I straighten any of the boards, it will probably only be on the outer face of each one.

Anyway, much to contemplate. For now, I'll sleep on it.

Eric Schubert
07-21-2016, 6:13 PM
After deliberating how to build my base, I've decided to use barrel nuts to secure the long stringers to the legs. I'll then glue the end frames together. This will make my bench fairly solid, yet I can knock it down if I need to move it.

In order to utilize barrel nuts, I'll need the capability to bore deep holes. From my reading, it sounds like I'll need a brace to do this. I hit up four flea/antique markets nearby, and while they had some old tools, they did not have any decent braces for sale. Looks like I'll have to find something online...

Anyone have suggestions on where to find a good brace? I've already contacted Patrick Leach (may have another of the one I wanted that was already sold), and taken a look at Hyperkitten. I'm hoping for other avenues without resorting to eBay. Preferably some sort of reputable online shop.

David Eisenhauer
07-21-2016, 6:19 PM
Jim Bode Tools dot com may have one. He has in the past at any rate.

Eric Schubert
07-21-2016, 7:21 PM
Thanks, David! Jim does, in fact, have a couple of these braces. They're a little pricey, but I'm assuming Jim is a reputable seller and only sells tools of good quality. If I grab one on eBay, it'll be a crap shoot whether I get a good item or not, at best.

Phil Stone
07-22-2016, 11:31 AM
Thanks, David! Jim does, in fact, have a couple of these braces. They're a little pricey, but I'm assuming Jim is a reputable seller and only sells tools of good quality. If I grab one on eBay, it'll be a crap shoot whether I get a good item or not, at best.


Eric, if you want to get a brace and bits anyway, this won't matter. But I employed barrel nuts for my stretchers, and I was able to find a long drill bit to drill the holes. I'll add an edit here when I find the invoice for the place I got them.

Edit: found them here: http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Holemaking/Drilling-Drill-Bits/Metalworking-Multipurpose-Drill-Bits/Extra-Length-Drill-Bits?navid=12106289

David Eisenhauer
07-22-2016, 12:16 PM
Which one did you get?

Eric Schubert
09-13-2016, 4:56 PM
Sorry, David! I totally forgot to reply to your question.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Tools/MF_Bits_and_Brace_zps2hckkgx9.jpg

I ended up with a Millers Falls 4508 brace and a nice set of bits, thanks to one of SMC's great members. It looks to be in really nice shape. No rust. Everything moves smoothly. And the wooden handles look great. I'll definitely be good to go when I need to bore some holes. I'm thinking of using barrel nuts on this bench, but we'll see. I want to take this bench with me if we ever move, and that would definitely help break down the base of the bench.

I put some more time in on the bench today. I worked some more on flattening out one of the top slabs. Man, you better have some serious elbow grease to do this. I was sweating pretty good by the time I stopped. I managed to work across, and then diagonally to, the grain of the wood to get things mostly flattened in that direction. Now, I need to start working along the length of the grain to finish things up a bit more. There are some low spots along the glue line, but I may just leave those alone, since this side is the bottom anyway. In fact, they may disappear as I continue flattening everything out.

I need to figure out what's wrong with my two smaller hand planes. Both #4's, neither does a very good job. In fact, one of them just loves to dig in hard and chatter like crazy. Even on very thin shavings. I ended up using my #7 for the flattening, which is tiring, trying to throw that much mass around. (Although, it does make powering through the wood grain easier due to momentum.) Some fettling is definitely in order on those two...

Robert Hazelwood
09-14-2016, 9:12 AM
The bottom surface of the benchtop can have low spots and be fine. The only really important thing is to have the surfaces where the legs connect in the same plane and without twist.

Not sure why you'd be using #4s for flattening a benchtop slab when you've got a #7 hanging around! But seriously, this is what the 7 is made for. When I first started with planes I also found the larger planes a bit easier to use.

There was a thread here a few weeks ago you should take a look at, regarding planing technique and body mechanics. Several people posted videos of themselves dimensioning boards- might be useful to you. One of my takeaways from that thread was to generally avoid planing across and diagonally when flattening, unless the workpiece is about as wide as it is long. I had began coming to this conclusion on my own, as it seemed to take a lot more effort (due to tons of short strokes) than simply planing along the grain.

As for the chatter issue with your #4s, double check that there isn't anything (shavings, dust, debris, etc.) stuck somewhere that is keeping the frog or blade from bedding correctly. Also check for a concave sole.

Good luck, and try to post some pictures of your progress!

Eric Schubert
09-14-2016, 10:01 AM
I'll take a look around for that thread, it would be interesting to see how others flatten larger slabs. I'm sure there are multiple ways to accomplish this task.

It's been my understanding that the "proper" method is to go across and then diagonal to the grain first to even out high and low spots and remove twist before going along the grain to finish. And this technique definitely helped me make progress, as some of these high and low spots on the slab were pretty noticeable. Going across the grain took those areas down more quickly than going along the grain, since the wood holds less strength in that direction. The downside is you risk tear-out along the edges. But I'm not concerned about that, as I still have to plane the other sides anyway. I avoided this technique with the 6x8's, and did planing only along the grain, like you suggested. And while that worked for those pieces, it seemed to take longer on this glued slab. And the plane had trouble taking shavings because of the low spots along the glue line. Once I tried going across the grain, things progressed again. So maybe it depends on the situation?

As for a #4, I intended for it to be a bit of a scrub plane, taking thicker shavings across the grain to progress more quickly. This was going off of what I saw from Paul Sellers, but he was working on a smaller piece. So maybe the #7 is the proper tool here. It's just heavy to wield. But it's been taking really nice shavings, so I'll roll with it. I really like my #7.

I'll still look around for the thread you mentioned. If there a better way to do this, I'm definitely interested in learning it! Thanks for letting me know it's out there somewhere.

Normand Leblanc
09-14-2016, 10:31 AM
It think that your flattening method is just fine and is the one I use all the time. All I would modify is the use of your no.4 which is too short (an opinion here). You would most likely be better off with a no.5 (I use a 5-1/4).

Good luck
Normand

Eric Schubert
09-14-2016, 10:46 AM
Thanks for the advice, Normand. Unfortunately, I don't have any planes between the #4 and #7, so I guess I'll just stick with the #7. It's been working pretty well, so far. :)

Blake M Williams
09-14-2016, 11:54 AM
I have two #5s one has a scrub plane style iron it that really helped me one flattening my laminated 2x4 bench. The 2x4s have those radiuses on the edges and I had to take off quite a bit to bet rid of all the little valleys. Scrub blade left behind a U like valley of its own if you try to hog out to much. When I switched to the other #5 I started with thicker cuts, and after I would go across the whole surface I would make cuts thinner and thinner until I got those almost see through shavings the whole length. Went diagonal across bench but kept plane somewhat straight, skewed across if that makes sense. Two, 16 inch by 5 foot laminated beams took about 45 minutes to get nice and smooth. I bet some of the more experienced people here could do that a lot faster, but it wasn't too bad.

Eric Schubert
09-14-2016, 1:05 PM
It's funny how you forget about things in a box... I just dug through a wooden crate that I had my planes in during our last move, and I ran across an older USA-made Craftsman #409 jack plane. Looks like I have the right tool for the job, but I just wasn't using it! Now, to add camber to the blade and have at it!

Brian Holcombe
09-14-2016, 1:14 PM
Eric, I have a video on my YouTube channel, flattening a panel. The same technique applies to slabs.

Rich Riddle
09-14-2016, 5:32 PM
Eric,

You have a beautiful brace and bit set.

Eric Schubert
09-27-2016, 6:12 PM
Thanks, Rich! It's in excellent shape. I really like the wood handles.

I made a little more progress on the bench today. I worked on taking the twist out of my first slab. There was quite a bit, so it took a bunch of work. But, I did manage to remove the twist. Now, I just need to work on flattening this side and I'll finally have a reference from which to work.

You'll notice some faint lines across the width of the slab. I start at one end and make my way down the length, removing the twist relative to the first end as I go. As each small section gets straightened out, I make sure to mark a line where I've been. So, each one of those lines represents another spot where I've measured for twist and it's been good to go.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-09-27%20-%20Bench%20progress%201_zpsjeplksj5.jpg

Made a good pile of shavings! I also picked up a monster 24" dust pan to help me clean up.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-09-27%20-%20Bench%20progress%202_zps2tpzygth.jpg

Eric Schubert
09-28-2016, 2:44 PM
Got a little more done today. I sharpened up my #7 again and started flattening the side that I straightened yesterday.

I took my plane diagonally across the slab, then went across again along the opposite diagonal.

Lastly, I started going along the length of the slab. This is where I noticed a hiccup. The center of the slab is thinner than the ends by nearly 1/8", making the length of the board concave.

Fortunately, this will be the bottom of the slab, so I'm not too worried. At least the twist has been removed. And I plan to put both slabs against each other to flatten the tops at the same time for a continuous surface across my center gap. But, I'm wondering how to avoid this issue when I start flattening the tops of the slabs... This seems to be a pretty common occurrence in my brief experience. I can remove twist and smooth out the edge of a board, but the center always seems to dip lower.

Anyone have recommendations on how to avoid this in the future?

Jerry Olexa
09-28-2016, 11:24 PM
Thanks for updates..Good work..Nicely done.

Eric Schubert
09-29-2016, 12:37 AM
Thanks, Jerry. :)

Brian Holcombe
09-29-2016, 8:11 AM
Got a little more done today. I sharpened up my #7 again and started flattening the side that I straightened yesterday.

I took my plane diagonally across the slab, then went across again along the opposite diagonal.

Lastly, I started going along the length of the slab. This is where I noticed a hiccup. The center of the slab is thinner than the ends by nearly 1/8", making the length of the board concave.

Fortunately, this will be the bottom of the slab, so I'm not too worried. At least the twist has been removed. And I plan to put both slabs against each other to flatten the tops at the same time for a continuous surface across my center gap. But, I'm wondering how to avoid this issue when I start flattening the tops of the slabs... This seems to be a pretty common occurrence in my brief experience. I can remove twist and smooth out the edge of a board, but the center always seems to dip lower.

Anyone have recommendations on how to avoid this in the future?

Do you have a good straight edge? I keep one handy while planing and just keep checking as I go. 1/8"~ is easy enough to remove.

Eric Schubert
09-29-2016, 12:57 PM
Do you have a good straight edge? I keep one handy while planing and just keep checking as I go.
I have a straight edge that's around 4' long, and a level that's 2-3' long (I'd have to check). But, I don't have a good reference to check them against, so I don't know exactly how straight they are. The long straight edge I have is part of a 2-piece set of saw guides I can clamp onto something when using my circular saw. They're extruded aluminum, so I figure they're straight enough for that. And they should be fairly close to straight for checking my surfaces. I could be wrong, though.

I saw your giant level in your video. I'd love one of those, if I could justify the expense. But, just starting out, my straight edge will have to do for now. I want my bench flat, but it doesn't need to be perfect.


1/8"~ is easy enough to remove
My triceps are saying otherwise, right now. All that planing has my arms and shoulders feeling pretty sore. :)

Eric Schubert
10-16-2016, 8:59 PM
Boy, it's hard to get motivated to do the tasks that you know are all just long, 100% manual labor. Flattening this bench has felt like a daunting task, which has discouraged me from working on it.

But, tonight I found some motivation to get a bit more done.

I flipped over the slab on which I've been working, and I checked the thickness to see where I would need to take some material off of it. And holy cow! I had such a discrepancy between ends that it blew my mind. One end measured in at around 3-5/8" thick. The other end was uneven across the width, with the thickest side measuring in at right around 4". Yikes!

With not much else to do but get to it, I adjusted the depth of my iron for a thicker cut and went to town on the thickest area of the slab, just trying to even things out across the width of the slab on that end. I managed to take that end down to just about 3-5/8", but only in a section that's just under a foot long. I still have the rest of the slab to work on reducing the thickness to match the other end. Fortunately, the rest of the slab only needs to have about 1/8" to 3/16" removed to get down to that thickness. It's still going to be a laborious job.

While it doesn't seem like I made a lot of progress from just looking at the board, I definitely feel all of the effort I put in to remove a bunch of material. I'm concerned that I will have to work hard at thicknessing the other slab, too. But, I'll deal with that when I get there...

Here you can see the left side I've taken down to the bottom of my marker line. Whereas the right side still needs material removed.
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-10-16%20Bench%20progress%201_zpsn6ec9ktn.jpg

What the center of the slab needs to have removed...
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-10-16%20Bench%20progress%202_zpsqi7v5cn5.jpg

Eric Schubert
10-19-2016, 8:54 PM
Got a bit more done today. Nothing terribly exciting. But, I did manage to remove material down to the line. And I got some exercise, once again.

I still need to smooth things out on this surface, but I think I'll leave that until after I've finished thicknessing the second slab, and then push them together to create one continuous, smooth surface for the top.

For now, I'll smooth the edges and get them squared up to the top/bottom. Then I'll get working on the second slab.

Eric Schubert
11-14-2016, 3:29 PM
Took some time to smooth out the bench top surface on the first slab. It took some doing. I had marked a thickness to plane down to, but I had mis-marked it and noticed it was still showing a fair amount of twist on one end of the slab. Had to take it down a little bit more to get everything flattened up to a reasonable tolerance.

Next up will be squaring up the sides of the slab and then cutting it to length.

Then, on to the next slab...

David Eisenhauer
11-14-2016, 5:35 PM
I know you are at the point where it seems tedious, but keep plugging away when you can and lay it down when it is time to do so. Pick it up again when the bad stuff has departed the front-side memory. Fortunately, this should only have to be done one time to this extent as long as new twist does not appear. Re surfacing and flattening from time to time will be required, but the main thicknessing should be over with at some point during your lifetime (:. I have always wondered about using a toothed plane iron in this instance when one needs to take an amount of thickness down. I have never had the opportunity to try one.

Eric Schubert
11-14-2016, 5:55 PM
I know you are at the point where it seems tedious, but keep plugging away when you can and lay it down when it is time to do so. Pick it up again when the bad stuff has departed the front-side memory. Fortunately, this should only have to be done one time to this extent as long as new twist does not appear. Re surfacing and flattening from time to time will be required, but the main thicknessing should be over with at some point during your lifetime (:. I have always wondered about using a toothed plane iron in this instance when one needs to take an amount of thickness down. I have never had the opportunity to try one.

Thanks, David. It's definitely tedious work, but I feel good after getting some of it done. Seeing the slab finally getting flattened is satisfying. But, at this rate, I'll be lucky to finish it within a year or two! I need to pick up the pace just a bit.

I've yet to try a toothed iron, so I'm not sure how it would help. But my #7 has some camber to it that will let me take down some wood in decent time, if I'm going across the grain.

Christopher Charles
11-14-2016, 6:10 PM
FYI, you can make a very accurate straight edge without a reference surface and lots of $. Here's a simple way to check for straight; there are also more elaborate methods, depending on the degree of accuracy you seek.

Best,
Chris

http://www.hntgordon.com.au/using-hand-tools/45-check-your-straight-edge-is-straight/38-checking-your-straight-edge-is-straight.html

Eric Schubert
11-15-2016, 12:19 AM
Thanks, Chris! Might just check my level to make sure the edges are nice and straight. I also have longer aluminum circular saw guides that are extruded material. They should be pretty straight, but I've always wondered.

Nick Stokes
11-15-2016, 10:07 AM
Also, don't be afraid to use it as is... It's not essential for the bench to be totally flat to work on for most tasks.

Eric Schubert
11-15-2016, 11:33 AM
Thanks, Nick.

Are there certain tasks where it makes a significant difference to have a flat bench top? Obviously, it helps no matter what. But I want to keep things moving along instead of spending extra time working on something that isn't that important.

I'm going to guess the top will move anyway. The wood I picked up was a bit wet in the center. Hopefully it doesn't move too much.

Glen Canaday
11-15-2016, 7:29 PM
If the 7 is a bit too heavy, you can also consider a transitional, #30 or #31. They're as big as the 7 and 8, but weight muuuuch less. They are also much less expensive. Worth a look-see, for sure.

Joel Thomas Runyan
11-15-2016, 8:18 PM
Thanks, Nick.

Are there certain tasks where it makes a significant difference to have a flat bench top? Obviously, it helps no matter what. But I want to keep things moving along instead of spending extra time working on something that isn't that important.

I'm going to guess the top will move anyway. The wood I picked up was a bit wet in the center. Hopefully it doesn't move too much.

Top flatness is most important for working stock that is thin enough to conform to the top when under the pressure of planing. Which is surprisingly often.

If you're constantly planing concavity into things, my bet is that your No. 7 is mildly banana shaped.

John Crawford
11-15-2016, 10:50 PM
If you feel yourself tiring, here is something to consider: if there is a cabinet shop in your area, and if you are able to transport your slab, you could likely rent some time on one of their giant drum sanders, and have the whole thing flat in 20 minutes. I know this isn't the neander way.... I ended up doing this on my bench, and was really pleased to be able to finish up the top and get on to the more fun parts of the project (and to building things on the bench). After a couple of years, you can re-flatten it the neander way.

Eric Schubert
11-15-2016, 10:51 PM
If the 7 is a bit too heavy, you can also consider a transitional, #30 or #31. They're as big as the 7 and 8, but weight muuuuch less. They are also much less expensive. Worth a look-see, for sure.

Thanks, Glen! I'll check them out. But, I'll probably just continue to get some practice with my #7. Gotta keep at it to get better, and it's good to get a little exercise in too!


Top flatness is most important for working stock that is thin enough to conform to the top when under the pressure of planing. Which is surprisingly often.

If you're constantly planing concavity into things, my bet is that your No. 7 is mildly banana shaped.

Joel, that wouldn't be surprising. I made use of the surface grinder at work to flatten my planes, and I have a feeling I got impatient and went to quickly, heating up the metal a little bit as I went along. So, it wouldn't surprise me if it warped due to heat just a touch and now it's not entirely flat. I'll check it with a straight edge to see.

Eric Schubert
11-15-2016, 11:36 PM
Thanks for the suggestion, John! For now, I'll continue working at it. But, if I get tired of it, I'll definitely consider that route. There's a custom cabinet shop not 5 minutes up the street from me.

Robert Engel
11-16-2016, 9:33 AM
Eric,

I used a 6 foot level and a pen light combined with winding sticks.

347659

Eric Schubert
11-16-2016, 10:35 AM
Beautiful bench, Robert! I love it. Especially the color contrast of those dovetails.

Mine will definitely be simpler than yours, but I hope it can be nearly as functional. I imagine you can accomplish quite a bit with that bench.

Eric Schubert
11-22-2016, 8:59 PM
Made some progress on the second top slab. The first side has been smoothed out, but I need to remove the twist. Hopefully I can get some more done over the holiday weekend, despite being fairly busy.

Eric Schubert
11-24-2016, 9:08 PM
Got some of the twist removed from the slab, but still some work to do before it's flat.

To any and all reading this, have a very happy Thanksgiving. :)

Eric Schubert
11-28-2016, 11:37 AM
Put in a little time this morning before work. Managed to remove twist from the first slab face, but now I have some cupping to smooth out. Debating if it's even worth bothering, considering this is the bottom of the slab. Might just skip it and move on after some final smoothing. If the twist is gone, I'll smooth out the top with both slabs up against each other anyway. So, a tiny amount of cupping isn't going to make any significant difference.

Robert Engel
11-28-2016, 12:08 PM
Eric,

You don't need to flatten the whole bottom but you don't want any twist in bottom to transmit to the base.

To do this, I used winding sticks only on the 2 area contacting the supports then flattened the top after fastening to the base.

Eric Schubert
11-28-2016, 12:13 PM
Thanks, Robert. I used "winding sticks" (my aluminum level and extruded aluminum saw guide) to check about 8-10 places along the length of the slab. So, it should be pretty good, at this point. I think this is just a symptom of my perfectionism... or pride, I guess. Sometimes I over-do just for the sake of doing something right, even if doing it right doesn't require the extra work.

David Eisenhauer
11-28-2016, 7:13 PM
Cupping on the bottom? If so, I would leave it (unless it is a monster cup) and move to the tops.

Eric Schubert
11-28-2016, 8:01 PM
The cupping is fairly minor. I would say somewhere between 1/16" and 1/8" in the center. Better than the first slab. That was easily over 1/8" lower in the center.

Eric Schubert
11-30-2016, 11:58 AM
Continuing to make a bit of progress. This morning, I smoothed and straightened out the twist from one edge face of the second slab. I still keep getting cupping in the center of the board. It makes sense, since you have the blade protruding below the bottom surface of the plane. It's only natural for cupping to occur. I just wish I could get better at avoiding it. I'm sure it's just a matter of checking for it and working to avoid it in the first place.

Otherwise, the edge surface is good and square to the bottom of the slab.

Joel Thomas Runyan
11-30-2016, 5:13 PM
Continuing to make a bit of progress. This morning, I smoothed and straightened out the twist from one edge face of the second slab. I still keep getting cupping in the center of the board. It makes sense, since you have the blade protruding below the bottom surface of the plane. It's only natural for cupping to occur. I just wish I could get better at avoiding it. I'm sure it's just a matter of checking for it and working to avoid it in the first place.

Otherwise, the edge surface is good and square to the bottom of the slab.

Not to be a pedant, but do you mean cupping, or bowing? I'm thinking you mean bowing by your reference to the projection of the blade, and with that, a convex bow. The key to eliminating that is front pressure in, back pressure out; which is easiest practice if you have a sharp blade. My test for sharpness (and often jointing practice) is letting go of the front knob a few feet before the stroke ends, and moving the plane forward with only pressure at the rear end of the plane. If your blade is dull--or your plane not flat-- the blade will discontinue the shaving.

You'll read sometimes that a plane is technically incapable of producing a flat surface, but with subtle manipulation, and knowing well the material, you can get closer than anyone is willing to measure. I find it worthwhile to practice perfection, because almost always when it can be achieved, the means for doing so are scarcely more complicated or time consuming than not. And it seems better to be capable and know when it is unnecessary than to imagine it unnecessary and never be capable.

Eric Schubert
11-30-2016, 6:25 PM
Not to be a pedant, but do you mean cupping, or bowing? I'm thinking you mean bowing by your reference to the projection of the blade, and with that, a convex bow. The key to eliminating that is front pressure in, back pressure out; which is easiest practice if you have a sharp blade. My test for sharpness (and often jointing practice) is letting go of the front knob a few feet before the stroke ends, and moving the plane forward with only pressure at the rear end of the plane. If your blade is dull--or your plane not flat-- the blade will discontinue the shaving.

You'll read sometimes that a plane is technically incapable of producing a flat surface, but with subtle manipulation, and knowing well the material, you can get closer than anyone is willing to measure. I find it worthwhile to practice perfection, because almost always when it can be achieved, the means for doing so are scarcely more complicated or time consuming than not. And it seems better to be capable and know when it is unnecessary than to imagine it unnecessary and never be capable.

Now, THAT is great information! Thank you, Joel! I absolutely do not mind if you correct me on my terminology or technique. I'm here to learn and absorb what I can to make something beautiful out of wood. And I want to know if I'm doing something wrong, or if there's a better way to do it. I'll give this technique a try the next time I work on my bench.

It's very likely that, even though my blade still takes a decent shaving, it is too dull to perform the test that you've suggested. (And I know it... I've just been a bit lazy and not sharpening between sessions.) So, immediate next step: SHARPEN MY BLADE!

It sounds as though you practice simply planing scrap stock? I probably should do that, as well. Though, I've been using my workbench project as a way to learn through doing.

Joel Thomas Runyan
11-30-2016, 8:56 PM
Now, THAT is great information! Thank you, Joel! I absolutely do not mind if you correct me on my terminology or technique. I'm here to learn and absorb what I can to make something beautiful out of wood. And I want to know if I'm doing something wrong, or if there's a better way to do it. I'll give this technique a try the next time I work on my bench.

It's very likely that, even though my blade still takes a decent shaving, it is too dull to perform the test that you've suggested. (And I know it... I've just been a bit lazy and not sharpening between sessions.) So, immediate next step: SHARPEN MY BLADE!

It sounds as though you practice simply planing scrap stock? I probably should do that, as well. Though, I've been using my workbench project as a way to learn through doing.

No worries. By "practice" I meant how I actually flatten large pieces or joint long edges, in practice, not in theory. I'll take a handful of increasingly long shavings out of the middle, depending on how bad the bow, and try a full length finishing stroke--with a relatively thin shaving--where almost all of my pressure is on the knob to start, dragging the plane into the piece, and finish with all of my pressure on the tote, pushing it out. I will often place the otherwise knob hand on the heel of the plane to add downward pressure. This guarantees that the plane isn't nose-diving out of the piece and creating an artificial bow: there is no weight on the front of the plane. If the shaving discontinues, I know either my blade is dull, my plane is out of flat, or the piece is still convex.

Again, conventional wisdom is that the first "full" shaving you get out of a piece--provided your technique is true--means it is flat. This just simply isn't the case as the length of the piece increases. You can easily plane a bow into a face (or crook into an edge) if it is a great deal longer than your plane, or if your plane/blade need work. And this all varies a lot per the depth of the blade. The temptation for a slightly dull blade is just to project it more in order that it stay engaged. But if the blade is projected close to the amount that the piece is out of true, it can still remove material from where no material needs to be removed. Under ideal conditions, this shouldn't seem to have an effect; but in practice, the variables in your technique, plane, and in the grain itself are compounded. For instance, you might hit a resinous patch in pine and skip the blade out, and you've added a hump to the bow. Which might take you a few more strokes to realize, by which point you've doubled the fault.

Eric Schubert
11-30-2016, 9:37 PM
I appreciate your taking the time to explain all of that to me. It really does make sense once you think about it. But, without that knowledge, it's just so easy to just put pressure on the knob and tote all the way down the length of the workpiece, thinking it's correct to keep pushing the plane down into the wood as you go. I also have to admit that I've done exactly what you've said to avoid, where you take a few extra shavings to take off a high spot, but in fact you actually make the problem worse. And without anyone to watch or mentor me, it's hard to correct those sorts of mistakes unless you realize that you're making them.

It sounds like I need to practice my planing technique. And I have a LOT of planing left to do on this project. So, it would appear I'll get plenty of practice as I continue forward.

On a side note, I've been trying to get into a habit of putting in time on this workbench at least every 3 days. Even if the progress is small, I want to make sure I'm moving it forward. Not that I end up just fading out and letting it sit there for a month again. I found a great app that helps me check off daily tasks, habits, to-do items and so on. And it's been hugely helpful in motivating me, not just for the workbench. (It's called Habitica, in case anyone's curious.) So, you should see regular updates in this thread/journal. I've already added a to-do item to sharpen my iron before I continue working.

Phil Mueller
11-30-2016, 11:24 PM
Eric, I too struggled with my planing technique for some time. And so, my shameless plug for David Charlesworth's download; Hand Tool Techniques Part 2: Hand Planing. Worth every bit of the $25. Different techniques work for different people and are all legitamate. But what this video did for me was provide a good foundation of how to approach flattening a face and edge with a disiplined procedure. I've put this to use on furniture sized pieces up to my 6'X2' bench.

Again, it's not the only way, but has worked very well for me. You may want to check it out.

Eric Schubert
12-01-2016, 12:00 AM
Thanks for the recommendation, Phil. I'll check it out. It definitely helps when you can see someone working and explaining. My bench, though it has a split top, will end up around that size.

Robert Engel
12-01-2016, 10:06 AM
Eric,

Have you considered using a router sled? If you're not averse to power tools, I think this is ideal for a split top bench.

I flattened the Scandinavian workbench I previously showed by hand, but for this one I used the planer sled. It is 3x7 bowling alley w/ DF aprons and white oak front dog hole apron.
348591

I started doing it by hand, but quickly realized how time consuming the task was going to be, not to mention my shoulders and back aching.

I used a Magnate 2" planer bit. Just a little bit of sanding took the tracks out.
Here is the set up. Once I get it set up it took me less than 30 minutes to do the whole top.

348590

BTW, we are all anxiously waiting for some pics!!

Eric Schubert
12-01-2016, 11:20 AM
Eric,

Have you considered using a router sled? If you're not averse to power tools, I think this is ideal for a split top bench.

I flattened the Scandinavian workbench I previously showed by hand, but for this one I used the planer sled. It is 3x7 bowling alley w/ DF aprons and white oak front dog hole apron.
348591

I started doing it by hand, but quickly realized how time consuming the task was going to be, not to mention my shoulders and back aching.

I used a Magnate 2" planer bit. Just a little bit of sanding took the tracks out.
Here is the set up. Once I get it set up it took me less than 30 minutes to do the whole top.

348590

BTW, we are all anxiously waiting for some pics!!

Robert, I've seen the concept of "planing" with a router, and it's not a bad way to go. Though, I've not seen the 2" planer bits, that's cool! And I do have a good router that could handle the work load. But, I'm keen to finish this project using hand tools. It's definitely slower, but I enjoy the feeling that I'm creating something with my own hands.

As for the pictures, I did take a couple from the last couple of sessions. I didn't share them because they just looks like all the others. But, if you insist... :D

Flattening and straightening the first side of slab #2. Normally I'm averse to putting my face on the intertubes, but hey... I'm having a good time with this.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-11-30-Bench%20Progress%201_zpsmhkpquhi.jpg

And my last progress update, where I worked on the edge surface of the second slab.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-11-30-Bench%20Progress%202_zps7fnvktmw.jpg

Eric Schubert
12-02-2016, 3:19 PM
Last night I sharpened up my #7 and had at it some more. It definitely helped having a sharp iron again, and I paid more attention to how my hands applied pressure to the plane. It will still require some practice, but it seemed to help quite a bit.

I also have this habit of planing more on one side than the other, so I ended up with a slanted surface that I had to correct. Definitely have to pay more attention to that...

Anyway, here's the latest update. Notice there's only a very small gap under the aluminum guide. The guide is 3-4 inches wide. I'd estimate the gap is about 1/32" or so. MUCH better than before.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-12-01-Bench%20Progress%201_zpsmqcplbnr.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-12-01-Bench%20Progress%202_zpsg1tqgffq.jpg

David Eisenhauer
12-02-2016, 3:32 PM
The more you do, the better you get at noticing problem areas. The sooner you notice them, the sooner you correct the problem. Somehow, with all of the noticing and correcting, you get better at doing the task and you often times cannot really say exactly what you did to get better at it. You do realize, don't you, that you will be able to better tackle furniture-type planning after finishing up the bench. What are you using as the long straight edge?

Eric Schubert
12-02-2016, 4:26 PM
The long straight edge is an extruded aluminum edge guide. Something you'd likely use to guide a circular saw. I know extruded materials tend to be quite straight (if done correctly), so I've just used it. I don't have much of a reference, other than my level, but they seem to both be straight on their long edges when I place them back-to-back. I could buy a long, 6-foot level for a straight edge. I just haven't wanted to spend that kind of money, yet.

Eric Schubert
12-05-2016, 1:58 AM
Got a little done today. Worked on the second edge surface and removed the twist from it. Still need to make sure it's good and flat.

How important is it that the edges be parallel to each other on a split top Roubo-style bench? Will that hamper me at all with making boxes, dovetails, or other furniture?

Robert Engel
12-05-2016, 9:38 AM
Looking Good. Use winding sticks on the edges good idea but probably not as critical as if you were gluing in to one big slab.

I've not done a split top, so FWIW I think square edges and having the two slabs parallel and the same width would be very important. Any discrepancies will reverberate all the way through the rest of the project.

You look like a strong young man & you'll have a great feeling of accomplishment when you get through with that top.

BTW I bought a 6' level when building my bench it has been quite useful for many other things, like most recently prepping the top for a dresser I'm building & redoing the fence for my miter/RAS station.

David Eisenhauer
12-05-2016, 9:46 AM
By "edges" do you mean the four long sides of the two bench top pieces? I can't see how some out-of-parallel will affect furniture building unless you somehow use more than one edge at a time to reference something square against. I use sliding storage boxes in the "split" so I watched that gap for parallel so the boxes could easily slide and be interchangeable for any position up and down the entire run of the "split" but don't recall ever noticing if the two separate tops were in or out of parallel during furniture making/assembly. Basic obsession (must be my German blood coming to the fore) with "correct" made me work to getting some parallel to the tops, but I have never re checked it again.

Eric Schubert
12-05-2016, 1:39 PM
Thanks, guys. Yep, David, I'm referring to the narrow surfaces on the long sides of the boards when I say "edge surfaces". I know they're not edges, but I'm sort of thinking of the slabs in terms of large flat faces and narrower edges. If that's confusing, I'll try to reword that in future posts.

Robert, thanks for the encouragement. Getting started on this project has been somewhat tedious. But, I'm finally starting to see the progress, and can't wait to move past this phase and start working on the assembly. Chopping those mortises for the base components, and then again to attach the tops, could prove to be a challenge. I need to make sure I watch my angles, and that my mortises are nice and perpendicular into each piece.

As for my question on parallelism...

I was thinking that getting both slabs the same width wasn't really important. And, if my memory serves me, I thought I even saw some benches with uneven slab widths on purpose, to have a wide slab and a narrow slab.

But, I was considering what the consequences would be if the long, narrow, surfaces on the front, back, and in the gap of my split top weren't parallel to each other. David, you make a great point that having them parallel in the center will be useful if I plan to use sliding storage boxes on my bench, which I have considered doing. I'll definitely want the center gap to be nice and straight with parallel sides, then. Other than that, I'll keep an eye on the width of my board and see if it's pretty consistent. If it is, my faces should be fairly close to parallel, as long as I get them nice and flat. I just need to keep checking as I go. I need to be more diligent about that.

Eric Schubert
12-07-2016, 11:03 AM
Got more done last night. Started smoothing out the bench top surface of the second slab. There were a bunch of saw marks to remove, some of them fairly deep. So, it took a bit of work to get down through them. Not that it really matters, because I still have to work on the thickness for this slab to match the first slab. I'll get it fairly close, and then I'll do a final smoothing to get them the same by putting them side by side and planing all the way across them. At least, that's the plan.

Finally got to sweeping up around my work area. I used my 55 gallon garbage can to put the shavings, stuffing and stuffing them in to pack them down. And I still have more to go after filling a bag. There must be 20lbs of shavings in that bag. Crazy how much wood gets removed in this process.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-12-06-Bench%20Progress_zps9bitanq9.jpg

Chris Hachet
12-07-2016, 1:16 PM
If the 7 is a bit too heavy, you can also consider a transitional, #30 or #31. They're as big as the 7 and 8, but weight muuuuch less. They are also much less expensive. Worth a look-see, for sure.


I have a wooden ECE #8 that works beautifully in situations like this.

Eric Schubert
12-07-2016, 1:55 PM
I'd love to try out a nice wooden plane. I've seen a few in antique stores, but they're always in rough shape. Usually with checking or splitting, cracks around the wedge area, etc.

I know it's possible to make one. I'll have to put that on my project list for once my bench is done.

Eric Schubert
12-08-2016, 11:27 AM
Didn't do a lot last night, but I did sharpen up my #7 again to prepare for the next round of planing. Next, I'll need to lay out the overall thickness I need for my second slab so that it matches the first, and then work on planing it down until it's close. Time for some sweat equity... but that won't happen until after the weekend due to plans.

Eric Schubert
12-14-2016, 1:13 AM
I didn't have time to do much today. But I marked out the thickness for my second slab. I'll get it close and then set it aside to start working on the rest of the base components. Mostly stringers and such.

Robert Engel
12-14-2016, 9:44 AM
Looking good Eric. You're building muscle memory and you'll see how this helps in your first project.

Have you thought about workbench height yet? The pic got me wondering how high the slab is you're planing? Its going to be a pretty critical thing a lot of guys don't pay much attention to but can translate into pain going forward. Too low = back pain. Too high = shoulder/elbow pain. It also plays into planing technique somewhat. Too high and you will have more problems with uniform planing (IMO).

I used a modified "Frank Klausz" formula: standing erect, flex the wrist to 90 degrees and the palm of the hand is roughly wb height. Actually I like mine about an inch higher because of my back.

Eric Schubert
12-14-2016, 10:56 AM
Thanks for the tip, Robert.

I've briefly thought about bench height, but I've just been focused on getting everything prepped.

I know that my current setup (a section of office desk) has been a little too low for my liking, except when I've been working on the edge surfaces of my slabs. Then it's a bit high. So I know I want something in between. I'll test out the Klausz formula and see if I like it.

I figure I'll start on the higher side and see how it goes. Worst case, I can always cut the legs down a little bit. But I can't put material back once it's gone.

Eric Schubert
12-19-2016, 9:50 PM
I missed my last check-in because I was out of town, so I felt like I needed to make progress tonight. And I think I did just that.

Last time I worked on my bench, I only laid out markings for the thickness that I'm looking for on my second slab to get it close to the first slab. Tonight, I managed to push myself to get my slab to the proper thickness. I still need to put both slabs together and take them to their final thickness, but that I will save for somewhere toward the end of my build.

As always, the picture doesn't look much different than previous ones. But, you may be able to see that I got some nice, long, curly shavings off of my #7. It's definitely due for a sharpening again, but that plane has been my workhorse.

Next up: Start smoothing out pieces of my support structure. My horizontal stretchers (I think I kept calling them stringers... they're stretchers.) that connect my legs together, provide a space for a small shelf (maybe), and join the top with the base.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-12-19%20Bench%20Progress_zpsu6ubjpm1.jpg

Eric Schubert
12-22-2016, 5:11 PM
Well, just didn't feel terribly energetic today... but I did at least start on my next board.

Before that, I noticed a shiny spot on my second top slab. Turns out there was half of a nail still in the board that I'd been planing down! So, now I'll really have to sharpen up my blade again. I can see it's starting to leave little tracks because there's a nick in the edge. *sigh*

I pulled out the first of my 4x4's and smoothed out the rough surfaces. It has some bow and twist to it. It may have more twist than is worth correcting, unless I really plane it down. We'll see how it goes. The bow I may not be able to remove, either. So, I'll need to find out how to cope with that flaw.

I have to say... While this is quite a challenge for me, being so new to neander woodworking, it's teaching me how to deal with all sorts of situations that are far from ideal. I'm sure many woodworkers deal with these flaw and problems on a daily basis. Now it's my turn to see how I handle what the wood throws my way. :)

Robert Engel
12-22-2016, 6:38 PM
Plane it to fit, that's how I roll.......:D

Hitting that nail was a big oops. Plan on spending quite a bit of time fixing that plane iron. :eek:

Eric Schubert
12-22-2016, 6:42 PM
Yeah, can't say I'm thrilled to have to remove that much metal on the blade, but it is what it is. No way to go but forward. :)

Eric Schubert
12-25-2016, 12:18 PM
Firstly, I'd like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas! Joy and happiness to you and your families this holiday season.

Secondly, there's nothing like doing a little woodworking on Christmas! (Today was also my day to do it in my habit-tracking app, so... it was more that than anything. :D )

Step 1: Sharpening my blade. It definitely got a few nicks in it from hitting that nail, plus it had gotten fairly dull. I started on my extra-coarse DMT, then moved to my honing films from there. It took a little work, but it wasn't as bad as I was expecting. Honestly, the picture almost looks worse than it was. At least as far as time and effort to remove those flaws.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-12-16%20-%20Bench%20Progress%201_zps9ly6dxbg.jpg

Step 2: Have at it! I worked some more on my first 4x4, managing to get one side flat and smooth.

I ran into something interesting on this board on which I'm hoping someone can educate me. I ended up with these weird shavings while planing. They're rough, as is the surface of the board. And they tend to crumble apart almost like it's end grain. But a look at the side of the board doesn't reveal anything like this type of grain coming up in this area. Any ideas what would cause this?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2016-12-16%20-%20Bench%20Progress%202_zps5eueemmd.jpg

Jim Koepke
12-25-2016, 1:04 PM
Have you tried planing in both directions?

I find some piece that look like the grain is running one way, but for some unknown reason seems to plane better "against the grain."

jtk

Robert Engel
12-25-2016, 8:27 PM
The grain can be tricky. I've planed many a board with grain obviously oriented away from me, but still got tear out due to some unruly or twisting grain.

I don't know what that is but I know you're planing radial plane wood (is that right?). What I mean is you're planing the vertical grain face.

I would look at the side of the board (the face side) I'll be you'll see some rising grain there.

Sure that blade is really sharp?

Eric Schubert
12-26-2016, 9:45 AM
I've been using a Veritas mk2 honing guide, taking my blade through around 5k or better. It takes easy shavings. It should be sharp. Though, I haven't tried shaving hair with it, and I admit my sharpening skills could probably still improve.

I looked at the side of the board and it looks like I'm going the right direction. I can try flipping it around, though I thought I had already done that after removing the general roughness of the wood because of tear-out on the opposite side. I'll give it a try and see what happens.

Stewie Simpson
12-26-2016, 5:43 PM
Eric; if your having trouble determining the grain direction on some of your boards, give the surface a light spray of water. The spray of water will cause the grain fibres to lift allowing you to better determine with your fingers tips the direction of grain. Every time I read a comment suggesting there is no need to check the grain direction with a closely set cap iron, it rather concerns me, as it can be a precursor to adopting the mentality that grain direction is of little importance when working with natural timbers. That's far from reality.

Eric Schubert
12-26-2016, 6:39 PM
Thanks, Stewie. I've definitely noticed tear-out when planing against the grain at various points in this project. And I know it can be extremely important with specific types of wood. I had some serious tear-out in the past when trying to work walnut. That was ugly...

Eric Schubert
12-29-2016, 1:57 AM
I tried reversing my planing direction on that 4x4, and it did help smooth out the surface. So, I guess the grain was going the other direction. Thanks for that suggestion.

I also smoothed out all sides on another 4x4, so the are now 3 done. They all have significant twist in them, so I'm going to leave them until I need to cut them down to avoid removing more material than I need to. The shorter pieces should need less work.

Eric Schubert
01-03-2017, 7:55 PM
Not much to report lately. Been busy with all the holiday stuff happening. Did get one more 4x4 smoothed out. Just gotta keep pushing forward.

Eric Schubert
01-09-2017, 10:29 PM
Got a bit more done tonight.

Started to finish up smoothing my previous board and recalled the iron needed sharpening, so I got that taken care of. The plane cut very nicely after that.

Managed to smooth out another 4x4, though it ended up being a bit frustrating. It must've been the most resinous board of the bunch, because shavings kept sticking along the plane mouth, preventing me from continuing until I scraped them off. Very annoying.

I also managed to hit another nail in the latest board... *sigh* I saw some track marks and realized there was a tiny little sparkling spot near one end of the board. It must have been just below the surface inside of one of the holes, because when I checked the board all I saw were some nail holes. (If you remember from early on (or if you're just joining), it's reclaimed lumber. Nail holes are pretty common on these pieces.) I didn't want to dig out a chunk of the board to pull out a nail fragment, so I used a punch and pounded it down into the middle of the board. It should be safe there, though I did write a note by that hole to remind myself of the nail later on, just in case.

In any case, I ended up having to re-sharpen the iron after that, taking of a good amount of metal to get past the chips.

And by the end, I noticed I have another small chip in the edge of the blade. But, there aren't any nails that I can find. I'm guessing I must have just hit one of the knots a bit hard and it chipped the edge. Oh, well... I'll fix that next session...

On the bright side, I'm making some progress and I feel good that I got in a decent workout tonight.

Eric Schubert
01-12-2017, 10:04 PM
Tonight's workbench efforts didn't entail any physical labor. Instead, I decided that I needed to do some research to help me clarify the vision for my bench. Off to the internets I went...

I still want to recreate the 3D model I whipped up for my bench. I think it's close to what I want, in its basic form. But, I need to figure out a few of the minor (or not-so-minor) details, like how to construct the mortise-and-tenon connections at the legs and where to mount my vise(s).

Looking at other benches, it appears that many have used drawbore pegs to hold the base together, and that the tenons on these components only go maybe 2-3" into the mortise. This would help greatly, since it leaves room for the neighboring M&T connections at 90°. So, I'll have two blind mortises at the top and bottom of each leg that are 90° to each other, holding the long and short stretchers. Since I wanted to make my bench able to knock down, I'm thinking I'll drawbore the short stretchers into the base, making smaller rectangular frames at each end that I can move with the legs. The longer stretchers I'll look into using barrel nuts to pull them together with the legs.

I'm still debating having long stretchers underneath the bench top. The upside is that I could use them as clamping surfaces, if I make them flush with the top. The downside is more labor in assembly and they aren't exactly straight. These boards have some twist and bow to them, which makes even getting one long flat face difficult, if not impossible. Maybe I'll look for better replacements to get flat faces...

As for the vise situation, all I own is a quick-release Record-style face vise. I'm not sure I want to use that on the front of the bench, but it would be fine for now. I'm considering putting it on the tail of the bench instead, and then looking into adding a leg vise.

In any case, much to decide... I'll see if I can whip up a new 3D model and post a screenshot to share.

Robert Hazelwood
01-13-2017, 9:12 AM
On my bench the stretchers are done similar to how you are thinking; the short stretchers permanently connected to the legs via drawbore, with the long stretchers removable and secured by barrel nuts. This is pretty standard for a roubo style and worked well for me. You can see the process I used in this post: https://roberthazelwoodwoodworking.wordpress.com/2016/03/16/roubo-build-7-finishing-up-the-base/

One thing I'm not clear on is how many stretchers you are talking about. For a split top design you'd have two short stretchers (top/bottom) on each side, and one long stretcher each on the front and back. So for each leg you'd have two mortises on the short-side inside face, and one mortise on the long-side inside face. If the top is solid, then you need to omit the upper short stretchers to avoid interfering with the tops movement.

Adding a second set of long stretchers under the top is unusual. Assuming you are making the top at least 3" or so thick, they are structurally unnecessary. They could function as aprons I suppose, enabling you to make the tops thinner if you wanted. While they would offer additional clamping area on the front, they would make it more difficult to clamp things on the top of the bench (which is something I seem to do a lot).

On the vise, I expect most people will urge you to get the leg vise for the front and use the QR as an end vise. But, I ended up using a 10" QR as my front vise and have been very happy with it so far. I did splurge for the BC wagon vise, and it has been great.

Hasin Haroon
01-13-2017, 9:28 AM
Lovely work so far Eric. I look forward to following your progress and seeing the final bench. The bench will no doubt be an extension of yourself after all the hand work that is going into it. One of the best things about hand tool woodworking.

Eric Schubert
01-13-2017, 3:25 PM
Thanks for the feedback, Robert. The way you describe your setup makes a lot of sense to me. I was debating adding the long stretches underneath the top, as it could be both a help and a hindrance. I think I'll skip them for now. I can always add them later, if I want them.

My main concerns with using the QR vise as a face vise are that it won't work as well for dovetails and it may be harder to work the edges of wider boards as I have less vertical room to set the piece in the vise. How has your experience been with those issues, and how do you have those complications with QR vise?

Hasin, thank you. I'm looking forward to getting everything assembled. Now that I have most of the lumber smoothed and flattened, I suspect (hope) things may progress more quickly.

David Eisenhauer
01-13-2017, 4:31 PM
I highly recommend a shop-made Moxon to follow up the bench. The Moxon will probably work dovetails and wider material in general better than the QR face vise will. The QR vise can handle daily basic tasks and the Moxon can be pulled out for other work that most likely does not come up daily. I am lucky in that I have room enough to leave my Moxon set up at a far end of my bench in an unused area (for the most part) and can use it as required. My face vise is set up to handle sawing and small/short/narrow planning tasks.

Robert Hazelwood
01-13-2017, 5:17 PM
My QR vise is recessed into the bench, so the front edge of the bench is effectively the rear jaw of the vise. I also added a large wooden pad to the front jaw, extending the clamping area. I can secure most long/wide things to one side of the vise rails- with leather padding it has excellent grip and I don't need to crank it down hard enough to cause issues with racking. If I were going to dovetail a very wide board, I'd put the left side of the board in the right side of the vise, and use an F-clamp or holdfast to secure the right side of the board to the bench leg or the sliding deadman. Basically the same thing you'd have to do with a leg vise.

I haven't had a problem edge jointing yet, but if you are working on 2x12 sized pieces a lot the leg vise definitely has an advantage. I've done up to 8" or so I'd guess...there is about 4-5" from the top edge of the bench to the guide bar. I also edge joint on the benchtop a lot with the plane on its side. If I had to edge plane a 2x12 I can just do the same thing I described for wide board dovetailing-, clamp the left end of the board in the right side of the vise (allowing me to drop the workpiece as low as I need) and support the other end with a clamp/holdfast. Or, if the piece is too long for that, I can use the "back" side of the bench and clamp to the legs. The Roubo design makes this sort of improvisation pretty trivial.

I'm certainly not arguing against the leg vise here, just saying that I haven't regretted the QR so far. QR is much easier/faster to install, although if you mortise the benchtop to recess the rear jaw that gap will narrow.

BTW- one thing to keep in mind as you consider a leg vise is that if you use the BC crisscross mechanism, it will restrict the depth and locations of the stretcher mortises for that leg, due to the inletting required. So you'll want to finalize your vise choice before you cut your stretcher joinery.

Oh, and should you opt for the QR vise up front, remember to consider the vise location when laying out dog holes, if you are laminating a dog strip into your top glue up. I did not think of this, and ended up with one useless dog hole :o

Eric Schubert
01-14-2017, 10:02 AM
David, I ran across a similar idea when doing some research. I really like the idea of a temporary vise that I can clamp to the bench top when I need it. Then I can make room when I don't. Thanks for recommending this. If nothing else, I can try it out before deciding to install something more permanent.

Because I plan to put my bench on mobile casters, I'll have access to all sides when I'm working. If I did want a permanent Moxon later on, I'll have the other side of the bench on which to install it.

Robert, thanks for explaining all of that information. It sounds like going with the QR vise really isn't that big of an issue. But I would still need to consider my tail vise situation.

I like the idea of a wagon vise, but I'd need to cut the slot for it to slide since I already glued up my top. That makes it difficult to install at this point. That's why I'm thinking the QR goes on the tail, as it's easy to install, and I can add dog holes to the jaws.

That then leaves the face vise. So I use a second QR? Or go for something different? I still need to price out another QR, as well as a leg vise. That alone may decide things for me. We'll see. But those are the two options I'm debating over right now.

Eric Schubert
01-16-2017, 12:16 AM
Below you'll find a drawing detailing out the dimensions that I want to use for my bench. I spent a little time thinking about a few items, but still have some questions that I'm hoping someone here can help me answer. I'm sure they're not super-critical, but I like to know my plan is solid before I move forward.



Bench top height was set to match the distance from the floor to the joint where my pinky finger joins my palm, which is 32". This was done according to the advice of Chris Schwarz, and seems to match my experience using a section of office furniture for a temporary bench. That surface was just a little low for my liking, and it was 29" tall. I may leave this just a touch longer, since I can always cut the legs down if I don't like it that tall. Maybe an extra inch or two taller?
My quick-release vise position: based upon my reading about advice on other threads, I decided it was prudent to install the vise on the outside of the leg and on the left end of my bench so that the jaws are flush with the end of the top slab. Since the vise is 9" wide, I planned to have jaws that extend 1" or so out on either side of the vise. Hence I only left 12" on that end of the bench. Is that wise?
On the right end of my bench, I left a longer tail extending beyond the leg than on the left side. I noticed this is very common with Roubo-style benches. Why is this? And is 18" of length outside of the leg sufficient?
For the dovetail/tenon connection between the legs and the top slabs, I'm guessing this is unnecessary, but I want to try it for my own experience. However, should I leave a shoulder on all sides of the tenons? On 2 sides of the tenons? Is the "shoulder" between the tenons sufficient? It sounds like the shoulders help prevent racking, so maybe leaving shoulder on all sides is advisable?
Will 2" long tenons connecting the stretchers to the legs be sufficient? Or should they be longer? As per the drawing, short stretchers will be drawbored and long stretchers will use barrel nuts for knockdown capability.
Gap size is set to 2" between slabs. This seems somewhat common. I plan to assemble a tool holder / planing stop insert to slip into that gap, as per the Benchcrafted Roubo design (http://benchcrafted.com/str.html). I would likely use 1/2" outer stock and slightly less than 1" spacers when gluing up this insert so that it can slide in and out without binding, yet still fit without too much slop. According to FWW (http://www.finewoodworking.com/2013/08/29/calculating-for-wood-movement), a 10" slab of fir (to estimate, I used Balsam Fir in the table) will move 0.0024" per percentage point of moisture change per inch in width if it is flat-sawn and 0.0001" if quarter-sawn. I estimated using 10" in width (roughly 5" on each side on the inside of the lag screws), 5% moisture change, this gives me about 0.12" of movement if flat-sawn and 0.005" if quarter-sawn. Then I'd need to account for the insert, which will likely be made with something like poplar. I think it is fair to assume that 5% change in moisture content is unlikely, so 1/16" to 1/8" of play is sufficient. Those top slab pieces are closer to quarter-sawn, so movement will be fairly minimal. I'll start out making it slip in just less than snug and see how it works out over time.


Okay... I think that's all of my questions/considerations for now. Here's the latest drawing/model showing off my geek side:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/7%20foot%20workbench%20-%20Rev%202_zpsph0aunpa.png

David Eisenhauer
01-16-2017, 1:15 AM
1. The various bench height "rules" all seemed to work out to within an inch or so for me. I have read that you should pick one method and then build the bench, as your body will adapt to that height or you can make it a couple inches taller if you really can't decide and then cut it down later if you want. Pay attention to the room under the lower stretcher for your feet if you plan on cutting later. I used the measurement from the floor up to the bottom of the palm of my hand with my arm held straight down along my side and my hand bent upwards at 90 deg.

2. As to the face vise location - are you right handed or left handed? what will you primarily use the face vise for? I frequently use my face vise to hold pieces for sawing so I put mine within a few inches of the end of the bench so I could extend pieces out for cut off. Your planned position would work for me as long as there were no plans to put another vise nearby.

3. The typical 18" overhang on the far right end of a bench usually indicates that that bench will have or has a tail vise (or wagon type tail vise) that has a longer amount of travel for the vise-end dog and is built for a right handed operator. I believe that the Benchcrafted tail vise calls for 18-1/2" (?) or something close. If you want to install now, or perhaps later on, some type of tail vise, you should figure out which one it will be so that you leave sufficient room for that brand/model of vise travel.

4. I have nothing of value to add about the tenon/dovetail leg-to-top connection, but agree that typically shoulders all the way around seem to help prevent racking. I have seen some bench plans that only call for shoulders on the two long sides of the tenons that extend up into the top, but cannot explain that. 2" tenon length seems slightly short, but I can't see how they would fail with glue and draw bores. If I did not have someone else's plans to go by, I would have picked 2-1/2", 2-3/4" or so, but 2" should work.

5. I would go for a snug fit now, unless it is dry wintertime when you build it. I do see some slight movement between summer and winter where I live but you can always plane it down some later (unless it wedges in place!)

Eric Schubert
01-16-2017, 2:07 AM
Thanks, David. Good points in your reply. I'll likely move the lower stretchers up an inch or two, just in case. I really don't want to keep hitting my feet on them.

As for the QR vise... I'm right-handed. My understanding is for RH people the vise goes on the left side of the bench. I have no plans to add another vise in that vicinity.

For the tail vise, I'll look into them to get an idea of what I may do later on. How hard is it to retrofit a wagon vise into a slab later? And are they really better than a standard tail vise?

Robert Engel
01-16-2017, 9:58 AM
Eric,,

>In reference to bench height, you are wise to allow room for adjustment. In contrast to Schwarz, Frank Klausz recommends flexing the wrist at right angles and the palm surface will give height. This is what I used for my bench and I found I needed about 3/4" higher so I had to put spacers on top of the trestles. Its a trade off and it must be tailored to the individual body proportions and limitations. I would find Schwarz rule to be way too low for me.

Its very individual. For example, my torso is longer (ie legs shorter) for my height than most people. As a result I have issues with my back so bending a lot is leads to problems. OTOH, if the bench is high enough to suit my back, then its too high for hand planing which causes stress on shoulders and elbows.


I've found that bench heights for different tasks are different. For example lower for planing, higher for chiselling/sawing. I prefer to make the bench best for planing I can always use a stool when chiselling or a moxon vise for sawing dovetails.

Bottom line you will develop muscle memory in accordance with bench height.

I think in the perfect world, one bench for hand planing and one bench for sawing/chiselling would be ideal for me. I've found a a couple saw benches and benchtop moxon vise to quite useful.
351901
351902

Robert Hazelwood
01-16-2017, 10:09 AM
For the center strip, the width of the gap where the tools sit is pretty important- things you'd end up wanting to place there are chisels, saws, squares, marking gauges. Each tool category has an ideal width but 1" is too wide for most of them (especially chisels and squares). I made mine 3/4" and it is a little wide for smaller chisels and squares. I need to add in some material to narrow the gap in a few places.

The vise positioning sounds good and for the face vise it is similar to my bench (the face vise jaw extends to the left end of the bench). I've found this handy for crosscutting things in the vise. The overhangs sound about right, but of course the tail vise determines the minimum overhang on the right side. Even if you go with a QR end vise, the guide rails need a lot of room under the bench on the larger ones. I suspect 18" like you've shown will suffice for most vises, but I'd want to make sure before I cut anything :)

As for wagon vise vs others, I have the BC wagon vise and while it is very nice, the only clear advantage I can think of is that the mechanism doesn't move out away from the bench as the vise is opened...i.e. the handwheel always stays in the same position. This means you need less total space for the workbench, potentially. It could also be stronger and less prone to sagging than a moving block style, at least on paper. It would be a lot of work to retrofit, especially if you are not using a router. I think Schwarz has a blog post on doing this, could be illuminating. The moving block style does seem most useful for work holding, and a QR vise extends the effective length of the bench for clamping between dogs, along with being the simplest to install.

Bench height - my bench is also 32". I'm 5'8" for reference. For the most part its fine, but can be a bit low for detail work. I have a bar stool I cut down so I can sit at a good working height for marking out, chopping with chisels, etc. The height is good for most planing work, but for real heavy work on thick material with wooden planes I think could stand it being a couple inches lower. Making the bench at the higher end of the working range and raising the lower stretcher so you have plenty of margin for future shortening seems wise to me. Bench height is personal and there's just no way to know ahead of time what you'll come to prefer, or what kinds of tasks you'll end up doing several years into the future.

On the tenon shoulder issue, to me it seems the space between the dovetail and tenon is your shoulder, and it runs the full width of the leg. I don't think adding shoulders to the sides will noticeably improve things, especially considering your legs are 8" wide, which is massive. I seriously doubt you will have racking issues!

Eric Schubert
01-16-2017, 10:44 AM
Thanks, Robert and Robert!

Robert Engel, I really like the idea of having a portable/removable Moxon vise for working on dovetails. They tend to require the workpiece being set higher up for sawing and marking to be comfortable, so that makes a lot of sense. Plus, they're not ideal for many other tasks. Being able to pull it out and use it whenever I want would be great. I did see other posts discussing and showing that same concept, though I really like the way yours is constructed to support the mating piece as you mark out your dovetails. I saw a similar idea, but with a separate I-beam-style support that can be moved around behind the vise or not used at all if not needed. What did you end up using to construct your Moxon? Is it heavy?

Robert Hazelwood, thanks for pointing out those issues with a gap size that's too large. I'll take a look at my tools and adjust my design accordingly. I'd love to slip a saw or chisel into the center, but it would be a huge pain if they fell through. Sounds like I'll need to narrow up the gap a bit, which isn't a big deal at this stage.

I also didn't even think to measure the length of the guides on my vise to see how far they extend. I don't think they stick out beyond 18", but it's good to check now before I do anything else.

Also, David, I forgot to address your comment regarding tenon length. I was concerned they may be too short at only 2" long. But, it seems like it wouldn't make a lot of sense to follow the "rules" for tenon size on such a large piece. (i.e. Tenon thickness is 1/3 stock thickness, width is 1/2 stock thickness, and length is 5x tenon thickness.) This would put my tenons at 5" long, which seems excessive/difficult. While I might like to do that, chopping a 5" deep blind mortise would be a gigantic pain, even if I drill it out first. Plus, the long stretchers will be connected with barrel nuts, not drawbored, which extends the nut beyond the shoulder of the tenon into the piece.

I'd be happy to make the tenons a little longer. Maybe 3" instead of the 2" in my drawing would be better.

Also, just a quick note, for the short stretchers on the top, I plan to set those just high enough where I need to plane them down to match the height of the dovetail shoulder when dry-fitting. That way they'll end up good and flat, providing a solid resting surface for the top slabs. I had noted twist/bow in these boards earlier. That's how I'm planning to address the issue in that location.

David Eisenhauer
01-16-2017, 11:30 AM
My response last night was long enough, so I did not go into the details that Robert and Robert did. Agreed on their info. My take on the bench height: I will use it for planning and joinery, both of which require different working heights. I cannot "lower" my planning height on a too-high bench, but I can "raise" my joinery height on a too-low bench by using a Moxon vise or a bench-on-bench like Robert E shows when I need it. I usually have a Moxon in place on one end of my bench and have contemplated fabbing up a bench-on-bench (without a vise, holdfast holes only) for use as well. As to the center divider, I use a 4" split and have sliding, flush-to-the-bench top tool trays down in the 4" gap. The trays have a finger hole in the bottom for ease of removal and can be cleared of curlies by grabbing a handful at a time. I like to keep my marking gauges, small square, small ruler, eraser, etc down in the trays when planning or chopping so as to prevent sweeping tools off the bench and on to my concrete floor. Also, the 4" gap is easier to drop a bulky clamp head down into as well if I don't want to use a F clamp for some reason. One of the trays protrudes about 3/16" of an inch above the table top so it can be positioned as a stop for cross-bench planning and it has a narrow slot in the bottom of the tray that can be used to drop a saw down into when the tray is upside down. That tray usually stays upside down on the bench and moved wherever it needs to be. My chisels and marking knives live in portable stands that fit down into the 4" trays (handles extending well above the bench top) and can be moved from tray to tray or removed to stand on their own on the bench top or other work surface. A QR face vise can be used as a tail vise if it has the pop up stop feature and you could ensure that you leave enough space on the right end of the bench overhang top to add on there later if you wish. Some folks add in a twin screw vise there for the same purpose as well.

Eric Schubert
01-16-2017, 12:44 PM
David, how do you support your trays? Did you glue a strip along the inside of the gap?

David Eisenhauer
01-16-2017, 1:20 PM
I ran a rabbet (not really needed at all) on the bottom sides of both of the split tops along the strip-sides and screwed in a 1/4" thick x around 3/4" wide ledger strip for the trays to ride on. The ledger strips on each side each extend out approx. 3/16" or so to create a "runway" for the trays. The slight extension of the strips on each side do not seem to affect any clamping I want to do down between the split tops. I did make the ledger strip extension minimal so that it would not cause the clamps to have to be kept too far away from the edge of the split tops. If your gap between the tops is parallel, you can fab your trays to a close overall width tolerance that will allow you to keep the ledger extension to a minimum. Weather down to the shop today is lousy or I would send a photo. When folks hear about trays in the split, they tend to think about debris catching and clearance. Yes, the trays do catch curlies, saw dust, chips, etc, but are easily cleaned out.I have said before, I have a death fear of sweeping tools off the bench to the concrete floor and don't have a handy place on or near my bench to keep my marking gauges (somewhat bulky tools as opposed to marking knives, chisels, etc) and like to have them very close for repeated use on a project. The trays work for me, maybe not for others. Its all OK.

Robert Engel
01-16-2017, 2:10 PM
Eric,

The base is hard maple scraps the top a piece of hard tulip poplar slab I had and the jaws are mahogany.

Eric Schubert
01-16-2017, 3:17 PM
I honestly have no problem with emptying out the trays once in a while. It's just part of shop cleanup. I can't imagine it's that big of a hassle. It's more of a hassle to not have your tools handy when you need them than it is to clean the trays out.

Chris Hachet
01-16-2017, 3:55 PM
I think the whole tool tray vs no tool tray thing is kind of overblown. You adapt to the workbench you have...

Eric Schubert
01-20-2017, 1:12 AM
Got a bit more done. Sharpened up my iron and had at it, smoothing out another 4x4. Unfortunately, while I thought I had finally completed smoothing on all my pieces, I had placed one into my "done" pile without touching it. So there's one left.

Otherwise, this phase is nearly complete. Once I smooth the last piece, I'll start working on the next phase, which is any.

Is it advised to chop the mortises in the top first? Or should I cut the tenons on the legs first?

Phil Mueller
01-20-2017, 5:44 AM
Eric, if I understand your question correctly, I would advise to completly build the base first including the tenons on the top of the legs. Then you can turn the base up side down onto the bottom of the bench top and mark the exact location of the mortises using the actual tenons of the legs. If you chop the mortises in the top first and something isn't perfect in your base build, the legs/leg tenons may not line up well with the mortises you've already chopped in the top.

Robert Hazelwood
01-20-2017, 7:53 AM
I agree with Phil. Set out the top slabs on the ground, bottom side up, then flip the base upside down and align it over the slabs, then scribe the tenons onto the slabs.

Robert Engel
01-20-2017, 8:10 AM
For a typical MT joint I cut mortises first and leave them alone. It's much easier to fit a tenon to a mortises than vise versa.

However in this case accurate marking may be an issue if you do mortises first.

I think which way you go depends on the tools you have. I would do whichever one you can do the most accurately first. That is likely to be the tenon.

Either way, always make sure the second part is undersized so you can fine tune fit.

For fitting, I use a guide block to ensure 90° walls on the mortise. A rabbet block plane is quite handy for roughing large tenons, then finish up with a router plane (you will have to mount the router plane in a base for tenons this long).

What type tenons are you doing, single, double or dovetail? Through tenons? Wedged?

Are you concerned at all about the tenons shrinking?

Eric Schubert
01-20-2017, 6:11 PM
Thanks, Phil! You got exactly what I was trying to ask there. Sounds like a very logical way to mark out my mortises in the top slabs. Thank you for describing that.

Robert, I plan to do a sort of double tenon, with each leg having a dovetail/tenon combo. If you take a look at my drawing in my earlier post it should hopefully make more sense. I realize that a double dovetail/tenon probably isn't necessary, but I've seen it on a number of benches and like the style. Plus, it will be a way for me to get extra practice with mortise and tenon joinery.

As far as the tenons shrinking, I'm not too concerned about it. I want to make them have a somewhat snug fit, so I'll probably have to use a mallet to remove them. And I'm going to use lag screws to hold the top slabs down to the base. Overall, I don't think it will be too much of an issue. But, I'm curious if you've seen them become too loose over time due to moisture loss?

Humidity is pretty constant in our home, due to a whole-house humidifier.

Eric Schubert
01-21-2017, 11:25 PM
I got a bit sidetracked today working on another project, so I didn't make a ton of progress tonight. However, I took care of a few tasks that needed doing in my shop area. Cleaned up a bit. Took out a huge bag of shavings to the trash. Sharpened my #7 again. And I did get about halfway done on my last 4x4, so I'm almost done with this phase of the project.

Eric Schubert
01-24-2017, 9:12 PM
Finally got all of my lumber smoothed out. The 4x4's aren't exactly flat/square, but I'll deal with that as I need to. I might be able to get away with using one flattened face as an outer surface to clamp against, and forget the rest. Just measure off of that one face and get my tenons cut. We'll see how it goes.

In any case, next steps are to cut down all of my pieces to length and prepare for assembly. Still need to order those barrel nuts, too...

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-01-24%20-%20Bench%20Progress%201_zpszc8vlo4a.jpg http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-01-24%20-%20Bench%20Progress%202_zps62yrilzj.jpg

Phillip Mitchell
01-24-2017, 9:26 PM
I don't intend to come off as preachy, but for the parts that you're working on, I believe it would pay off to get them square. At the very least, ensure that the ends where you're laying out and cutting joinery are really square. Layout and joinery on out of square stock is, at best, an annoying challenge to remember how to handle everything bc it's not square and, at worst, results in poor joinery.

I say this while building a bench of my own at the moment and dealing with laying out and cutting mortise for the legs into the underside of the top and having one leg tenon slightly off from where I wanted to be. Having to deal with that issue at the joinery stage is a pain.

Keep up the good work!

Eric Schubert
01-25-2017, 12:39 AM
Thanks, Phillip. I do appreciate you sharing your experience on this. My main issue is that most of these 4x4 boards have twist or bow in them (or both) to the point where getting both ends square and parallel may not be possible without removing some major amounts of material. I'm not sure if it's terribly noticeable in the pictures, but you might be able to see which ones are the worst of the bunch.

As I prepare to cut them down, I'll look for the best pieces for the long stretchers. Then I can see how I can make adjustments from there.

Would you simply get both ends square and aligned with each other?

Gary Focht
01-25-2017, 1:09 PM
Is there a reason you didn't cut them down prior to squaring them up? Wouldn't that have minimized the amount of wood you needed to remove to eliminate the bow and twist?

Can't wait to see the final bench and am enjoying the updates.

Eric Schubert
01-25-2017, 1:35 PM
Gary, I could absolutely have cut everything to length first. Being my first major project, I wasn't sure in which order to do this. So, I just smoothed everything out first. I could have probably saved myself some work had I cut them short first. And I'll probably still need to do additional planing to square some pieces up. My thought process was, if I'm going to get multiple usable pieces from one board, it helps me plane them all flat/square at the same time. I just hadn't really noticed all of the major bowing and twisting until I got into those pieces...

Honestly, I'm probably not going about things in the most-efficient manner. But, I'm trying to learn as I go, and I'll build off of that for my next project. That's a big part of why I started this discussion was so I can get feedback and direction, learning as I go. And I really appreciate all of the tips and guidance people have given me, so far.

Eric Schubert
01-30-2017, 10:03 PM
Didn't make physical progress on my bench tonight, but I did go back and make some minor revisions to my plans. I lengthened the tenons to 3" and widened them to 1.5" x 2", though I think I'll take the mortises about that deep and cut the tenons just a little short of that to ensure the mortise bottoms don't need to be perfect. I also added in the bored holes for the barrel nuts to make sure they would clear the mortises for the short stretchers, which they just do. Thru holes for the barrel nut bolts are just estimated at 5/8" diameter. I'll see what auger bits I have for my brace and go from there. But, the extra clearance shouldn't matter too much.

Main concerns are how to clear the bottoms of the mortises out by hand. A chisel will not make it easy. I may be able to use a Forstner bit to hog out the waste and get most of the bottom flat, and then clean it up using my 1/4" mortise chisel (the only one I have) or my 1" bench chisel, though I'm not sure if that's the ideal way to do this... any ideas?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/7%20foot%20workbench%20-%20Rev%203_zpsuasqcqfz.png

David Eisenhauer
01-30-2017, 10:57 PM
I would definitely drill out all I could on these large mortises and then use a chisel to pare the sides and ends down. Your 1" bench chisel will work (don't have to use a "mortise" chisel on mortises) to pare with. Use a small square to check that the mortise end and side walls are vertical, as it is easy to drift off plumb when doing deep mortises. Typically, mortises are chopped an 1/8" or so deeper than the length of the tenons to allow for glue clearance. Completely hand chopped (by chisel) mortise bottoms are smooth enough for use as is and do not require extra smoothing of the bottom surface. I used an 18" long Wood Owl Auger type bit to drill my 1/2" diameter long drawbolt holes through my legs and into the ends of the long stretchers. Amazon and Traditional Woodworker have these that I know of. Most folks tend to drawbore (with wood pins) the cross stretchers into the legs and I could not tell from your drawing that you intended to do that or not. Go buy some construction lumber and sticker it up for a week or two and then get started. Starting is the hardest part. You should be able to TS rip the rounded edge off of the 2x material, just have to see if a midline rip will pinch the blade or not.

Robert Engel
01-31-2017, 10:14 AM
Eric, with a captured bolt you don't need a tenon deeper than 1". The shoulders are more important I would leave 1" top and bottom and 1/2" on the sides.

Both workbenches I built this way when you tighten up those bolts its quite sturdy. Personally, I would question whether a 3x3 stretcher is wide enough. Maybe you don't need to with the through tenon legs, but it seems to me a 5-6" wide stretcher would be more sturdy. The stretchers on my big bench are 2x8 with a 1x6 mortise.

A flat bottom be achieved with a Forstner bit then just clean up the corners and sides (or round over the tenons).

Eric Schubert
01-31-2017, 4:10 PM
Robert, that's definitely a concern for me. Will the bench be sturdy, or will it wobble? I do have enough material that I may be able to laminate two 3x3 pieces together to get a wider stretcher. I just don't know if that will work, due to the amount of warping/twisting in those pieces. I can at least take a look and see if it's a possibility, though. Thanks for pointing that out.

David, thanks for the suggestions on hogging out those mortises. That will definitely help. As for your question, I plan to drawbore the short stretchers on either end of the bench. The long stretchers will use the barrel nuts.

David Eisenhauer
01-31-2017, 6:14 PM
I don't have the exact dimensions handy, but the Benchcrafted plans call for wider (taller) stretchers than your planned for 3". I think I remember that the lower short (side) stretchers call for of 4-1/4" wide, with the upper stretcher being a little narrower, maybe 3"-3-1/2" ? If you have not yet sourced them, Benchcrafted sells the drawbolt/barrel nut combos. The Benchcrafted plans call for a 1" tenon length on the long stretchers where the drawbolt will be used and the drawbolts will pull it up tight to remove all "wobbling". Better be on the look out for long drill bits so you can drill out for your side stretcher pin holes plus the long stretcher drawbolt arrangement. I used a 1/2" diam. 18" long Wood Owl bit to get the drawbolt hole drilled out through the leg and into the end of the stretcher.

Eric Schubert
01-31-2017, 8:00 PM
David, I plan to use a brace/bit to bore my bolt holes, but I'll have to check how long those bits are. I also have already purchased the Benchcrafted hardware, as you had suggested. Those should hopefully arrive within the next week or so, depending on how quickly they ship.

One alternative I'm considering is using a couple of angled corner braces above/below the m/t joint in the long stretchers to create a lengthened shoulder for more rigidity. (Think just a 45/45/90 degree wedge of material, glued to the stretchers and screwed to the legs in addition to the barrel nut hardware.)

That also throws out the concept of angled bracing. If the bench is wobbly, I can always install angled brace pieces under the middle of the top slabs going from one upper short stretcher to one lower short stretcher on the opposite end. Bolt those together and fasten them to the short stretchers. Seems like a band-aid fix, though...

David Eisenhauer
01-31-2017, 10:37 PM
I am not very sure at all that you are going to see any wobbly, but you can cross that bridge when you get to it. Your angled corner braces, flush with the outside of the face of the bench and fitted in place with loose tenons or largish dowels would most likely do a world of good. Wait and see. I used the 18" long Wood Owl in my brace to finish the long 1/2" draw bolt holes that I started with my drill press. I would have gone for a 12" bit if they offered it, but it was either 7-1/2" or 18".

Robert Hazelwood
01-31-2017, 11:46 PM
To be honest your bench's legs are so large that, as long as your leg-to-top joinery is halfway decent, you probably don't even need stretchers to avoid racking (of course you need them to make the split top design work, but you get the idea). I would not bother with corner braces. 3x3 will be fine for the short stretchers...would be sufficient for the long stretchers too, but wider would look better to my eye, to be more balanced with the legs. You can spend $15 on a couple of 2x8s, let them dry for a month or so (should dry very quickly this time of year in CO), and make them out of those. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with 3x3 IMO if that's what your available wood can yield.

Eric Schubert
02-02-2017, 10:31 PM
I'm feeling exhausted and mentally fried tonight, but I forced myself to at least get something done so I don't lose momentum.

I evaluated each of the 3x3 boards to see which ones were the straightest. After picking out three of them, I cut one down to make a long stretcher. Then I started working on squaring and flattening it. It's much easier with a shorter piece. And this board is fairly straight, so I shouldn't lose too much of the material as I work on it. I got it about halfway done. Just need to square up the remaining sides and start the next one. Once my pieces are cut and squared/flattened, then I plan to start cutting down the legs.

Eric Schubert
02-06-2017, 12:25 AM
Got to it again tonight. Continued working on squaring up my first long stretcher. (If you think 42" is "long".) I got the second side finished up, but ran into a snag on the third side... another screw... *sigh* I guess just looking in all of the holes isn't good enough. I'll have to start poking a small punch into them to see if they hit any metal. Initially, I tried to punch the "nail" farther into the board, because I didn't want to have to chisel out a chunk of wood, pull it out, and then try to fill it back in with the chiseled pieces or a bit of scrap. Unfortunately, it didn't budge. So, I took a chisel on all sides to get a grip on it with my vise grips. It still wouldn't budge... I tried twisting to loosen it up and found it turned fine, it just didn't pull out. As I twisted, I realized it was a screw. Well, I did get it out, but not before chipping up my plane again. It's so hard to notice them until you're close to the metal, but by that time the hole has filled in with sawdust, making it impossible to see the nail until you hit it. Just gotta be more diligent about checking all of the holes, I guess. Just part of my learning process.

Time to sharpen up again before I continue. Too bad, because my plane was working beautifully until then.

Fortunately, this is actually the longer piece of the two from when I cut my 3x3 down. I'll cut it to 42" and then cut my tenons. As you can see from the image below, I'll cut right through where the screw went, so it had to come out anyway. But I'll cut the tenon shoulder below the screw hole and cut away the gouged area. You'll never even know it was there, except for the screw hole.

On the upside, I also got my barrel nuts from Benchcrafted. These things are beefy!

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-02-05%20-%20Hit%20a%20nail%201_zpshrufw3uw.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-02-05%20-%20Hit%20a%20nail%202_zpsqexy66ul.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-02-05%20-%20BC%20Hardware_zps7cq8yjyl.jpg

Brent VanFossen
02-06-2017, 12:56 AM
...but ran into a snag on the third side... another screw... *sigh* I guess just looking in all of the holes isn't good enough. I'll have to start poking a small punch into them to see if they hit any metal.

I keep a wand-type metal detector in my shop. Every piece of suspect wood undergoes a full sweep on each surface before I apply a hand plane or run it across or through any of my machines. There's no telling how many brads, staples, and nails I have found even after I have removed everything that I could see. I don't remember what I paid for it, but I got it from Harbor Freight and used one of their "percent off any item" coupons. Well worth the money.

Eric Schubert
02-06-2017, 1:22 AM
Brent, that's a fantastic idea. HF has two styles of wand detectors. The one with better reviews is $40. With a coupon, sounds like it would easily pay for itself in time savings. Thanks for the suggestion!

Robert Engel
02-06-2017, 6:48 AM
Eric,

Although I've never actually hit a nail with a hand plane (ouch!) this brings to mind that I keep spare plane blades sharpened and ready to use.
It can be helpful to have one or two plane blades with different cambers. My 4 1/2, 6 and 7 all take the same size so you only need 1.

Keep in mind sometimes only the distal part is hardened so you have to be extremely careful not to overheat when grinding. I think this may be especially true with the thin Stanley blades but someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Eric Schubert
02-06-2017, 10:30 AM
Robert, I'd love to have extra blades ready to go. Unfortunately, I don't really have the money to put into blades at the moment. I have one PM-V11 blade for my #4, but I still need to figure that plane out. It just tends to dig and chatter. My #7 has an original blade, I think. But, I just can't drop $40 on a new blade right now. That's on my list, though.

The blade I had gotten wasn't exactly flattened on the back, so I used a wet surface grinder to get it flattened along the inch or so near the edge. I also used that surface grinder to get the bevel started, because it was so chipped and pitted that it would've taken forever to get the bevel set by hand-sharpening. Then I flattened and squared the sole and sides of it, as well. In any case, it works really well when it's sharpened up. For some reason, my other planes do not, and they got the same treatment. I really should take some time to sort those issues out. It really sucks not being able to use my other planes for anything...

Chris Hachet
02-06-2017, 10:36 AM
I got a bit sidetracked today working on another project, so I didn't make a ton of progress tonight. However, I took care of a few tasks that needed doing in my shop area. Cleaned up a bit. Took out a huge bag of shavings to the trash. Sharpened my #7 again. And I did get about halfway done on my last 4x4, so I'm almost done with this phase of the project.


I have found a zen like life altering mindset with hand tools. It helps with the "just keep making progress..." way of thinking. Since I adop0ted the "I got further along, I am in no hurry..." mindset, I am actually getting a lot more done.

#7 is a sweet tool, mine lives on a shelf under my bench.

Robert Engel
02-06-2017, 11:04 AM
Kris, I understand. Sometimes you can pick up used Stanley blades in the $20 range off Ebay.

BTW, the back bevel technique aka the "Charlesworth ruler trick" may make life a little easier for you re: sharpening.

Eric Schubert
02-08-2017, 10:19 PM
Nothing very exciting tonight. Got my #7 in shape to continue after "The Screwing" incident.

I did have a minor epiphany while sharpening, though. I realized I wasn't spending enough time on my first honing film (around 1k grit). After my coarse DMT, I needed to spend more time removing the coarse scratches from that diamond stone. After doing that, I got a really nice, smooth shaving when I reassembled my plane. I'll have to pay more attention to that step...

Eric Schubert
02-15-2017, 4:51 PM
Got a bit more done last night. I sharpened up my 1/4" chisel again, so it's ready for my next use. No sense in leaving it dull. I also worked on squaring and flattening my first stretcher. I finally got it square and flat on all sides. It's ready for cutting tenons.

Of course, it wouldn't be right to go another session without having to sharpen my #7 because I hit another piece of metal... It wasn't a nail, but it looks like a piece of screw threads peeled off and was stuck in the wood. I pulled it out, but it was already too late. Time to hit the stones again...

I also need to keep better track of my sizing. I'm over 1/8" thinner on one end than the other, in one direction. It's not terribly critical for this build, but it's something I tend to forget to check as I'm planing away. Just another lesson as I continue working away on my bench.

Photo below is after I cut it to length and squared up the ends.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-02-14%20-%20Bench%20Progress_zpsnbqmwzmg.jpg

Phil Mueller
02-15-2017, 6:16 PM
Looking good Eric!

Eric Schubert
02-20-2017, 6:43 PM
Thanks, Phil!

I got the dings sharpened out of my #7 and got back to work today. Time to work on the second long stretcher.

This board is a bit out-of-square. More like a parallelogram, really. Two sides are nearly parallel, and the other two are parallel to each other but not 90 degrees to the first two. Just have to take down a little material to get my right angles again.

I managed to get two adjacent sides to square up. The third side is nearly there. So, not too much longer and I'll have the second long stretcher done. Hooray for progress!

David Eisenhauer
02-20-2017, 6:47 PM
Progress, step-by-step. Long live the #7.

Eric Schubert
02-23-2017, 8:31 PM
Got a bit more done tonight. I realized I had left a little twist in my workpiece, so I went back and corrected that. Then re-squared the second face, and finished up the rest. So, the second stretcher is ready to go.

I was just thinking about previous posts... I do have plenty of 3x3 pieces. If I wanted to, I could probably double up the width of the long stretchers to help prevent racking. As I continue smoothing, flattening, and squaring my pieces, they continue to get thinner. Might not be a bad idea to glue two pieces together to get more stability in my bench. Any thoughts?

Robert Engel
02-23-2017, 9:31 PM
Yes I would do that. I never thought 3x3 was wide enough for long stretcher.

Eric Schubert
02-23-2017, 11:45 PM
Considering you have a bit more experience at this than I do, I'll try to work that into the plan. Shouldn't be that much extra work to do. Thanks, Robert.

Phil Mueller
02-24-2017, 7:52 AM
Hey Eric, just noticed this build started a little over a year ago. Just wanted to say "good for you" for the perseverance and continued attention to detail. I have to admit, I might have been tempted into "good enough" by now. Nice job on the build and look forward to the updates!

Eric Schubert
02-25-2017, 12:25 AM
Thanks, Phil! I feel bad that I'm taking so long. Yet, I also feel good that I'm keeping things progressing, even if it's a little at a time. I will get this done! Eventually.

Eric Schubert
02-27-2017, 12:18 AM
Got a bit more done today. I completed a glue-up for one stretcher. This is a new 3x3 piece that is the straightest I had. I cut the two pieces to length, then got them matched up. It took a little fitting to get a nice, close fit between the two pieces, but it should be nice and solid when it's dry.

First, I got them cut to the same length, at 42". Then I checked to see which sides would be closes to a perfect fit for gluing, and made a few minor adjustments with my #7.

Here's how they fit:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-02-26%20-%20Bench%20Progress%201_zpsy6iksmdt.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-02-26%20-%20Bench%20Progress%202_zps9k1xeswp.jpg

There's a small gap, but when measured it's less than 1/64". Easily closed with clamps.

Then I got to gluing. This still needs squaring/flattening, but I'll do that during the next session. Got a nice bead of glue all the way down the entire length of the top and bottom of the joint. My best long glue-up, yet.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-02-26%20-%20Bench%20Progress%203_zpslxqjg1ai.jpg

Unfortunately, the first two pieces taper a fair amount and don't have a consistent thickness between the two. So, either I need to take at least 1/8" off of the thickness of one piece before or after glue-up. Or I can try using a different piece with a more consistent thickness, but it's not as straight.

David Eisenhauer
02-27-2017, 12:31 PM
Thanks for the update and photos Eric. I bet you are ready for the base to start coming together.

Eric Schubert
02-27-2017, 12:44 PM
I am SO ready to start assembly! I know I still have a bit to do before then, but I can feel it getting closer.

Jake Rothermel
02-28-2017, 1:53 PM
Eric, keep at it - re-reading this thread every time you post to it is like watching a nephew or niece grow up. Keep it up!

Eric Schubert
02-28-2017, 2:15 PM
Thanks, Jake. I feel like I'm learning to deal with taking baby steps, after trying to take big strides when I first started this project. I need to pay more attention to details, watch for problems, and take my time to do it right.

Eric Schubert
03-01-2017, 5:42 PM
Glue-up for the second long stretcher has been clamped. This time around was a little easier. I took my time. Took thinner shavings. Got my fit just about right, with a tiny bit of concave area in the center that's easily closed by clamps. After this cures, I'll start flattening/squaring up these doubled-up pieces.

Check out that glue line! It might be a little on the thick side, but it's nice and even along the entire length of the joint.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-03-01%20-%20Bench%20Progress_zpsl7jchgcm.jpg

David Eisenhauer
03-01-2017, 8:18 PM
Joint closed.

Robert Engel
03-02-2017, 9:01 AM
I consider that too much glue, Kris, but no worries better than not enough. BTW, the glue line that matters is what you see after the glue is scraped off :-) but sounds like it went together well. I really like spring joints.

I wouldn't spend too much time getting these perfectly straight the only part that matters is the two tenons at the ends making sure there isn't too much twist at the ends because with stretcher that thick you won't be able to do much tweaking to get them to fit.

You will be bolting them in, right? And making the tenon about 1" deep, right?

Eric Schubert
03-02-2017, 9:34 AM
Robert, these will be bolted in with the barrel nuts and get a tenon about 1-2" long. I had originally thought to make the tenon longer. I'm guessing that's not necessary?

Oh, and if you look right above my posts..? My name is Eric. :)

Robert Engel
03-02-2017, 6:12 PM
Oops sorry someone else name Kris has a workbench thread I think.

No, you don't need tenons longer than 1" if you're using captured bolts. (Actually the plans for my bench call for 1/2" tenons but I did 1"). Remember the shoulders give the strength and stability I would do 1/2" on the sides and 1" top and bottom. Your stretchers are pretty massive which will give tremendous stability to the bench.

When you get those bolts tightened you'll be amazed.

Eric Schubert
03-03-2017, 12:43 AM
Thanks, Robert. With the height of these stretchers, having a wider shoulder on top and bottom won't be a problem. I'm glad you suggested it, because I'm never quite sure what size they should be. Rules for typical tenons don't cover these situations.

Eric Schubert
03-04-2017, 11:49 AM
I didn't have much time this morning to work on the bench, but I grabbed one of my stretchers and shaved down the glue line so I could check it out. Looks like it turned out thin and even along the entire length. It's not completely invisible, but it's very thin.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-03-04%20-%20Workbench%20Progress%20-%20Glue%20Line_zpszxolndbo.jpg

Eric Schubert
03-23-2017, 9:22 PM
Finally got back to working on my bench. I had a couple of lazy days in my routine, and a weekend of travel for a funeral. It's time to get back on the horse!

I spent time flattening out one side of my doubled up stretcher, then got it thicknessed and squared up. Aside from cutting tenons, the first long stretcher is done! Time to start the next one.

David Eisenhauer
03-23-2017, 9:48 PM
Rolling again.

Eric Schubert
03-29-2017, 2:33 AM
Started working again today. Didn't get very far. The second long stretcher has multiple knots, making it very clear that my iron needed sharpening. After taking care of the sharpening, tests seemed to go much better. Knots are still difficult to plane through, but it helps a LOT to have a sharp iron. I have a feeling I may need to sharpen a few more times before finishing this piece.

Eric Schubert
03-31-2017, 6:40 PM
I only had a little available time to work on my bench today. But I did manage to get two sides of my second stretcher squared. Halfway there!

Eric Schubert
04-05-2017, 12:18 AM
Got my second long stretcher flattened and squared! I'm thinking I might double up the short stretchers, too. At least the ones on the bottom. I plan to place a short stretcher on each side along the top to help support the split top. The top one I'll leave as just a single, unglued piece.

Robert Engel
04-05-2017, 9:19 AM
Don't kill yourself trying to get those stretchers perfect. :)

Eric Schubert
04-05-2017, 10:33 AM
Don't kill yourself trying to get those stretchers perfect. :)

Definitely a weakness of mine... trying to be a perfectionist. It's a big reason I never finish projects. I spend so much time trying to consider all of the factors that it gets to be overwhelming, and I just stop working on it (if I started at all). That's one reason I'm trying to commit to getting some work done at least every 3 days on my bench. I must keep moving forward!

Robert Engel
04-06-2017, 8:18 AM
Eric I'm not meaning to be critical and I don't know how much free time you have AND and I'm probably out of line for saying this but you indicated you have trouble finishing projects. And now you're 15 mos into this project. Even though it is a big project it's not really that big if you break it down into components.

Perfectionism is a curse and I too definitely have to fight it. ive found thru experience as your skill level increases it's much easier to get thing s right quickly. As a result frustration decreases and satisfaction increases.

Bottom line we perfectionists have to give ourselves a break, realize we are humans not CNC's with arms and legs and therefore there will be errors. In fact there has to be errors if we are to prove we builder it by hand, right?

I admit sometimes I have a problem pushing thru a project. Although sometimes it is necessary (for example if I hit a design issue, I will deliberately shelve a project for a while til I settle it in my mind). I often will do little side projects in the middle of a project for a break, but I try to keep my mind always on getting back to it.

This is something you must overcome in your own way. The only thing I've found that works for me is mental discipline and creating a vision on my mind of the finished project and the satisfaction that comes with it.

I've pretty much overcome it and I owe a lot of that to a refocus on hand tools and away from machinery. I was fast approaching a point where ww'ing was no longer enjoyable, but rather a frustration and sessions in self criticizing.

Hope this gives you a bit of encouragement and perspective.

Eric Schubert
04-06-2017, 10:18 AM
Thanks, Robert. I do appreciate the encouragement. And, I agree, this project has been in progress for a LONG time...

I tend to have a lot of different things that pull me in all sorts of directions besides full-time work. For example, I'm not only attempting to learn woodworking, but I also enjoy photography, I brew beer, play board games, have regular tabletop roleplaying sessions with friends 2-3 nights a week, and target shoot/reload, plus I want to hit the golf links more often this year. So, my schedule is pretty busy as it is. I also have trouble motivating myself to do things that I know aren't going to be that exciting. (Can you say... flattening/squaring slabs of wood? Or how about working out?)

I do want to get this project done. And that's why I try to at least keep making forward progress. But this first part, having to prep all of these pieces, has been tedious and tiring. This doesn't exactly help my sense of motivation, which is why I've typically only worked on this project about an hour or so at a time. (Although, I'm wondering if prepping EVERYTHING at once is the best way to go or not..?) Still, I have noticed that it's been getting easier as I go, so at least I know I'm learning and improving my skills.

I realize these are all just excuses. I have plenty of time to work on this project. I just need to push myself to get more done, which is always something I've struggled with.

Eric Schubert
04-06-2017, 10:27 AM
I guess, just to add to my previous reply...

For whatever reason, I tend to get very focused and passionate about things that are interesting and new to me. But, once I research and learn all about something (not that I ever REALLY learn everything about anything...), that tends to slow down and I find something else that's interesting to me that I can focus on. I've done the same thing with other hobbies, like aquariums. I read a TON about keeping aquariums, both saltwater and freshwater. I had 2 or 3 aquariums running at one time. For some reason, that passion just died down as I felt I learned everything I wanted to know about them. I still miss having an aquarium and want to set another one up. (We haven't had one since moving a few years ago.) But, I found new and interesting things that stole my attention.

My point is that I tend to burn myself out on things by going gangbusters on all of the research. But, I really enjoyed woodworking in high school, so I want to try and keep this hobby going. I just need to find a way to push myself to keep learning and trying new things. And I need to find new motivation to take a project that's been "active" for 15 months and push it to completion. Sometimes, when you have a project this long, it's easy to lose motivation. It feels like it's never-ending. Or overwhelming in scale. So, add that to the way that my brain operates and it's not really helping.

Again... excuses. But, just trying to help you understand that I'm fighting my own brain/personality with this workbench project.

Eric Schubert
04-06-2017, 11:37 AM
While today is marked as a day to make progress on my bench, your push in the right direction was great to help get things done early in the day before work. I decided to just go ahead and double up on the short stretchers, too. If I'm going to do it, I may as well just do it right. I had some squared pieces that were plenty long enough. I cut them into 3 pieces each, gluing two pieces from each long board together to make the bottom short stretchers. The top stretchers I'll leave as a single board thickness, as the top will provide stiffness once it's lag screwed onto the base.

I'll try to revisit this later today to start cutting tenons on the top short stretchers.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-04-06%20-%20Bench%20Progress_zpsrtbgoso5.jpg

Eric Schubert
04-06-2017, 11:21 PM
As promised, I got a bit more done tonight with what time I had. While my bottom short stretchers dry, I can at least cut the tenons for the top short stretchers. I laid out the first one with a 1/2" shoulder all around the tenon and cut away. Overall, seems to be nice, straight cuts with very little paring needed. I'm quite happy with how this piece turned out.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-04-06%20-%20Bench%20Progress%202_zpsrvprfunz.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-04-06%20-%20Bench%20Progress%203_zpsaavr3fmj.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-04-06%20-%20Bench%20Progress%204_zps2z9ptmqo.jpg

Eric Schubert
04-08-2017, 10:32 PM
Another progress report. Got the second top stretcher tenons cut. Next up, I want to make sure I flatten/square my doubled-up short tenons. Once those are done, I'll work on cutting the rest of the tenons. After tenons, I want to get my legs cut to rough length and square at least one end to be the bottom/foot.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-04-08%20-%20Bench%20Progress_zpshmtdi8vm.jpg

Eric Schubert
04-22-2017, 4:26 PM
Got to it again today. Spent about 3-4 hours removing glue lines and squaring up the doubled-up short stretchers, then cut the tenons on both of them.

Cutting the tenons was interesting. The long sides were a little trickier with my saws. They're not designed to have so many teeth engaged with the piece. But, it still worked.

I'm pretty proud of my ability to square the stretchers. As I laid out my tenons, the lines came around nearly perfectly. If they were off at all, they were only as bad as these:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-04-22%20-%20Bench%20Progress%201_zpscboygzvz.jpg http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-04-22%20-%20Bench%20Progress%202_zps9njcsonu.jpg

And all four pieces together...
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/2017-04-22%20-%20Bench%20Progress%203_zpsmixflid4.jpg

Next up, cutting tenons on the long stretchers. Then on to chopping some mortises. I'm considering assembling the base, then worry about the top. But, should I cut the double tenons in the legs before or after assembling the base..?

Phil Mueller
04-22-2017, 5:08 PM
I'd do it before assembly. Much easier to manage/maneuver the piece around in a vice than wrestling with a glued up base.

Glad to hear it's coming along...congrats on the progess!

Eric Schubert
04-22-2017, 5:18 PM
Good point, Phil. I'll go that route.

And, thanks! It feels good to see some momentum building. I want to get this thing done so I can start my next project!

William Fretwell
04-22-2017, 7:27 PM
If you can hold the pieces properly cut them before assembly. If you can't then cut them after assembly; this would be my second choice.
As for the precision thing, be precise where it matters only. If an outside curve won't matter don't worry, if the underside of the bench is ugly who cares? You have to be selective on big projects to get it done. At the end of the day it just adds to the handmade character of the bench. If the joints fit and it's square where it needs to be that's all you need. My top stretchers still have the marks from the saw mill on the sides, I love that! It gives manufacturing history and character, but you won't see it without searching. Plan to add some whimsy to the bench, because you CAN. That touch, that uplift, will make you smile when you use it. It will show the discrepancies to be just that and you can do more than just get there. Mine is a tool tray made of Black Walnut, Cherry and Quarter Sawn White Oak.

Eric Schubert
04-22-2017, 11:41 PM
I like that idea, William. Thanks for suggesting it. I was thinking I'd make sliding tool trays for the center, so that would work perfectly. I hadn't planned any embellishments (not that I can carve with a darn), but that will add some character. I'll consider other places to mix it up a little, too.

I felt ambitious tonight, so I put in some more work. I got one long stretcher done. I cut the tenons in both ends. Only one more long stretcher to go. Then come the legs.

Noah Magnuson
04-23-2017, 8:12 AM
Looking good. It will all come together before you know it.

Eric Schubert
04-23-2017, 9:32 AM
Thanks, Noah! Guess I just need that little push to motivate me again. I'm even starting to think about finishes.

My first thought is either unfinished or an oil finish. What would you all recommend?

Brian Holcombe
04-23-2017, 9:44 AM
Looking good. No finish, a planed surface is in and of itself 'finished'. This is especially true in the realm of workbenches where a film finish or oil finish will do you a disservice in use.

David Eisenhauer
04-23-2017, 12:01 PM
"No finish" or some use/combo of BLO, wax and/or mineral spirits are the most popular choices. Slippery benches suck (for me at any rate).

Michael J Evans
04-23-2017, 12:19 PM
Eric
I applaud your patience so far in getting everything perfect and square. I'm currently working on my bench and as much as I hate to say it, I've found myself doing lots of good enough... I started out with perfection in mind and not to make any excuses, but have grown tired of hearing my wife complain about her projects not being built lol.
I figure I'm 25 and will probably build another bench. So as long as this one is solid and functional , I'm not worried about aesthetics.

Eric Schubert
04-23-2017, 11:46 PM
Sounds like no finish is just fine. Thanks, Robert and David!

Michael, trust me... the quest for perfection gets pretty old, too. Sometimes it's even discouraging, because you know just how much work is ahead of you. But, the worst part is over. All of that flattening and squaring of large pieces was quite a tedious job, but it's really starting to pay off. I just hope my mortise and tenon joints will fit properly. Getting nice, flat, square shoulders is important. As is getting a nice fit in the mortise. I'm going to be checking my work frequently as I go...

Phil Mueller
04-24-2017, 7:02 AM
Eric, just thinking ahead a little...while you're in the process of tenons. One thing I did was make a duplicate of a leg tenon (assuming they are all the same). I then used that to test the mortise on the underside of the bench top. That way, I didn't need to dry fit the entire base assembly each time I wanted to check a mortise.

Here, the base is set into the mortises, with the duplicate tenon in the foreground.

358811

Eric Schubert
04-24-2017, 11:23 AM
Not a bad idea, Phil. Making up a dummy tenon to fit with the top slabs could make things easier. The catch is I'd still have final fitting to do, since they'll all be slightly different. But, if I can get the tenons created very similarly, that may be a huge help.

One thing I noticed is that all of my legs are slightly different thicknesses. Some are 8.5" wide, while others are 8.25" or 8" wide. In theory, your tenons can still work, though. If I make the tenons sized from one side and cut them all to be the same dimensions, I could use that technique. But, if I create my double tenons such that each tenon is measured from its own side, that won't work. I'll have to think about this one...

Eric Schubert
04-28-2017, 12:54 PM
Got in a bit more progress last night. I finished up my tenons on both long stretchers. I should be all set for starting to cut my legs down to length and get my double tenons cut on the tops of those. Yay, progress!

Eric Schubert
04-29-2017, 7:04 PM
Well, this just sucks... I grabbed one of my 5x8 pieces to start cutting it down and prep for making the tenons, and I noticed a pretty big split all the way down the length of the board. It split such that it's now completely out of square again... *sigh* I'm guessing it was still fairly wet and just shrunk as it lost moisture. I know, being center-cut pieces, that they're not ideal for woodworking. But, they're what I found. Guess I should've been a little pickier..?

Now the questions are... Do I just square it up again? Or do I leave it sit until it's dried out? Or should I find some good, kiln-dried pieces to use now and save these for a later project? Can I even use them, or will they wreck my bench after it's assembled, should they keep drying?

The two pieces that I've checked, so far... the others look okay:

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/Split%201_zpslunbdwxu.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/Split%202_zpsmqdvncdx.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/Split%204_zps5lwwtbzi.jpg http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/Split%203_zpspuavw299.jpg

David Eisenhauer
04-29-2017, 8:00 PM
If it were my bench, I would replace the ones that are splitting. I can't back that feeling up with any scientific knowledge, just would not want splitting or even split-but-no-longer-continuing-to-split legs on a bench that should last for many, many (lifetime?) years. Too much work to get to this point and too many years to look at it.

Eric Schubert
04-30-2017, 3:48 PM
Can't say I'm thrilled about the splitting, either. But, the leg pieces are quite thick. Thicker than quite a few other benches I've seen. I'm not too concerned about the strength of the legs, despite the splitting. I just don't want them to throw things out of square, should they continue to move, split, and dry out.

From the start, I've just assumed that, at some point, I'll probably replace this bench with another design. So, it's mostly just to get myself a work surface to start getting projects done. A prototype, if you will.

So, I'm torn between just using what I have after squaring everything up again and finding some way to fix or replace these split pieces.

I do have at least one or two extra, long 6x8 pieces. These were spares, but weren't my first choices for boards due to being a bit more warped or dinged up than the others.

Tom Bender
04-30-2017, 8:56 PM
Making the top thinner is a good plan, 4" would be plenty. Rip the beams with a circular saw from both sides.

6 x 6 legs sound like a good plan; a good look and some weight down low. Put a generous chamfer on them, maybe an inch or more. My bench has 6 x 6 legs with massive aprons connecting them. No stretchers needed. Easy sweeping underneath. Below the aprons I turned the legs round for a furniture look.

A split top with 3" gap in the center minimizes expansion problems.

Start on the legs to give the top lumber some time to acclimate.

Worry less about moving it. A lever will move the earth and a mover will move it to another address. Or you can stand it on end and use a hand truck against the top. And the size you are talking about will go thru any door.

Phil Mueller
05-01-2017, 7:31 AM
Eric, sorry for the set back. I feel your pain. My neighbor gave me a number of 8'x6"x5" redwood beams. I had every intention of using them for my bench legs. Spent a good amount of time cleaning them up and planing them square. When I went to cut them to length they decided to split in multiple places. Pretty strange since these had been sitting around in his garage for years. Internal pressure, I guess.

Now in my case - and I'm guessing I'm a bit older than you - this was going to be my first and last bench. So I started with new wood for the legs.

You're probably fine structurally, but it wouldn't surprise me if it cracks some more over time. As mentioned, most likely just an aestethic thing. But I would bet you'll go quite awhile before building another and it may just drive you nuts looking at it. After a bit of time has passed, you may kick yourself for not spending the extra time to redo it.

Brian Holcombe
05-01-2017, 8:37 AM
This is fairly common with beams that have the tree center, or pith as it's called, in the beam. The beam is shrinking and it's common to crack. Often times, before this is allowed to happen the beam will have a stress relief sawn into it on one side. In timber framing this is done on the side that will not be seen in use.

I'd probably saw the center completely out of the beams and then glue them to create something like 5 x 5 for the legs.

Chris Hachet
05-01-2017, 9:43 AM
This is fairly common with beams that have the tree center, or pith as it's called, in the beam. The beam is shrinking and it's common to crack. Often times, before this is allowed to happen the beam will have a stress relief sawn into it on one side. In timber framing this is done on the side that will not be seen in use.

I'd probably saw the center completely out of the beams and then glue them to create something like 5 x 5 for the legs.

And this is also exactly what I would do.

Chris

David Eisenhauer
05-01-2017, 10:39 AM
Good idea Brian and Chris. Then the previous flattening/squaring effort is not all gone to waste. Something to consider Eric.

Eric Schubert
05-01-2017, 11:18 AM
Brian, Chris, David... thanks. The thought had crossed my mind at some point. I'm glad you think it's a good idea. I may just go that route. Unfortunately, it may be too late for the split beams. Looks like both the split side and the opposite side are no longer square. I'll have to check for flatness on the adjacent sides, but I'm guessing the board is not only split, but it's probably also twisted. I have a feeling I'll need to square and flatten these all over again after halving and gluing them.

On the bright side, at least they were some good practice to get comfortable with planing and squaring. I think it helped me a lot with the stretchers. And now I won't have such a deep hole to bore (and keep straight!) for my barrel nut bolts.

EDIT:

Almost forgot Tom! Thanks for the suggestions, Tom! But, the top is already glued up. Those pieces were actually quite dry and still look really good. I took two of the 6x8's, split them to make 4x6's, and then glue them up to make two slabs that were each about 4x12. By the time I got done flattening the top surfaces, they turned out to be about 3-5/8" thick.

William Fretwell
05-01-2017, 9:53 PM
That sort of cracking is very disheartening. You need lumber from much bigger trees. I would replace it with dry lumber with no centre. Those can distort as they dry but can be squared. Save the cracked lumber for a different project. Big lumber takes a very long time to dry and bringing it into a warm workshop invites trouble as the outside dries and shrinks. It happens to us all. Acquiring old dry lumber well ahead of a project is not easy. When you do come across it I find it outside the usual channels and can include some real gems. An old lumber mill very near me was shutting down (falling down mostly). They cleared out their attic, all the wood had been there for at least 80 years and was so dirty they had no idea what it was. The price was thus all the same. If you bought a pile you wanted the whole pile as you would never match it.
Even when you are told it's 'dry' it is often not. So plan your next bench at least 10 years ahead; no not joking.

Eric Schubert
05-01-2017, 10:18 PM
Weird how SMC deleted posts when editing on mobile...

Anyway...

That sounds awesome! I'd love discovering what's underneath the dirt, maybe finding some awesome pieces.

I'll poke around a bit and see what I can find. The are a couple lumber yard nearby. And I'll look into mills. Thanks for the suggestion!

Robert Engel
05-02-2017, 12:38 PM
Eric,

I feel your pain!! This is a common issue with large beams as they dry and/or are milled. You see it all the time in timber frame structures. Warping and cracking are more common when the lumber contains the pith or center of the tree.

Sorry to say this after all the work but I would not go further trying to use them.

Here are a couple suggestions:

1. Glue up the legs out of smaller timbers. A 4x4 or 3x5 leg is plenty big enough

2. If you want to use those beams, I would rip them right down the middle about 1" on either side of the pith, rejoint and square everything back up, sticker and let them acclimate for at least 3-4 weeks. Then go back and rejoint/square everything up.

At this stage of your project, I think option 1 is the way to go.

[Edit]BTW if you are worried about sawing the boards, I would suggest either go to a sawmill with a bandsaw and ask them to resaw them, or simply rip them with a hand saw. You'll need to have some wedges handy if they close up.

Hope this help!!!

Eric Schubert
05-02-2017, 12:44 PM
Thanks, Robert. I agree... at this point, finding a way to use these beams is going to involve a lot of work. I don't want to just throw these out, so I'll keep them around and see what I can do with them in the future. But those deep splits decrease their usable volume considerably.

Eric Schubert
07-03-2017, 10:37 AM
Wow, it's been two months since I touched this thread! I'm not dead, I swear! And neither is this project.

The past couple of months have been insane for work and just stuff going on in general, so I've not made any progress on the bench since the cracking issue became apparent. However, it looks like I should be able to get back on track again.

Since I don't want to just abandon what I've got, I'll see if I can salvage the pieces I have. I'll probably cut them lengthwise to remove the cracked sections, leave them dry for a little bit to make sure the moisture isn't an issue anymore, and then laminate them together again. If nothing else, it'll give me more practice flattening and squaring pieces, which isn't a bad thing.

And last, but certainly not least, have a fun, safe, and memorable Independence Day, everyone!

Eric Schubert
07-10-2017, 7:51 PM
Got to work on the bench again. I just decided to use the pieces as-is. I want a bench to use, it doesn't have to be pretty.

Leg #1:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t314/Mr_Spiffy/Woodshop/Workbench/IMG_20170709_113653_zpsgoaj49jv_edit_1499730188349 _zps5akrjurp.jpg

Edit: looks like Photobucket has removed 3rd-party hosting unless you pay $40/mo... guess it's time to find a new place to put my photos

Eric Schubert
07-31-2017, 1:53 AM
As I'm starting to work on this bench again, I'm noticing that cutting generates a fair amount of sawdust. Even though much of it is larger, heavier particles, I see dust settling on other areas of the basement. So, before I go too far, and even get some sanding done to smooth the bench when it's done, I'm considering building an air cleaner. I scored a free furnace blower that still works, and I'm coming up with a design. My only concern is making sure I use a fine enough filter. Looks like pocket filters get down to 1 micron, which is great. But those pocket filters are pretty long. If I'm going to make a roll-around air cleaner that can double as a table, why not consider making it convertible into a downdraft table?

Anyone have a source for plans on doing this? Making an air cleaner / downdraft table combo? I'm trying to figure out how to force the downdraft air to go through the filters, but I just can't wrap my brain around it...

Eric Schubert
08-09-2017, 12:24 PM
A few days ago, made some progress. Squared up there sides of my second leg. The final side is pretty wonky, though. I may just flatten enough of the side to give me a flat area for my mortise and tenon joint and ignore the rest. I'll have to take a good 1/4" off if I want the entire side to be flat.

Eric Schubert
08-09-2017, 12:24 PM
Also planning to get that part done this afternoon. Hope I can stay motivated to get it done.

Eric Schubert
08-09-2017, 10:34 PM
Terribly unmotivated to flatten and square these big legs again. But I forced myself to get at it. Very nearly ended up flattening the final side anyway, after having to remove a lot of material to get it close. Looks like this one is good enough to call done. Two legs down, two to go.