French cleats for upper cabinets

[Chris E Smith]

I'm planning to hang my upper kitchen cabinets on French cleats and trying to decide on where to place them and how many to use. The cabinets will be frameless, 43" tall overall with a 12" tall top section with it's own doors and 31" bottom section with doors. The carcases will be 30" wide or less and around 15" deep. I have a little extra depth available to go 15" because the cabinets are on either side of a big Viking stove/oven and the lowers will be about 30" deep to match the depth of the stove. Because I have the extra space I may put a 3/4" applied back on the uppers making it possible to put the cleats anywhere on the back of the cabinet.

My question is where should I put the French cleat(s) and or spacer strip at the bottom ? I could put just one cleat across the division between the upper and lower sections which would be about 12" from the ceiling and either put another cleat or just a spacer strip somewhere between there and the bottom of the cabinet. That location allows me to screw the cleat into the divider between the upper and lower sections as well as into the 3/4" back.
I'll leave about 3/4"+ between the cabinet top and ceiling so I can get the cabinet onto the cleat then put a piece of trim at the top to cover the gap. Then put a couple of screws into the lower cleat or spacer strip through the back of the cabinet just to secure it.
Any suggestions or comments are greatly appreciated, it's my first Rodeo. :)

Chris

[Eric Schmid]

I screw the top cleat into the back edge of the sides and top; so its top edge of the cleat is flush with the top of the cabinet. This gives more surface to attach to. For a spacer at the bottom it will usually be flush with the bottom of the cabinet. If using a second cleat at the bottom, the piece on the wall would be flush with the bottom of the cabinet and the piece attached to the cabinet is set further up the cabinet to meet the support.

If you install a lower cleat (rather than just a spacer) I have found it is easiest to install the upper first. Hang the cabinet with both the upper and lower supports on the wall. Slide the lower cleat into place and either mark the placement of the lower cleat on the cabinet, or tack it into place from the inside and through the back. This will accurately position the lower cleat.

I have never attached the cleat to the back and a 3/4" back seems unnecessary (and heavy). You will get plenty of purchase into the sides and top with 2 1/2" screws. Pre drill to avoid splitting.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Are you asking if you should put a spacer or a second cleat on the bottom edge of the cabinet?

I will be hanging some open faced storage bins from a french cleat in the shop. I had not considered the second cleat instead of a spacer. Would it need to be cleat cut on a angle or would a square strip be enough to help support the weight? I was thinking of making the short face of the cleat on the wall 3" wide held to the studs with two #10 x 2 1/2" screws per stud.

[Rod Sheridan]

I build my cabinets with a 3/8 UNC T nut in each of the bottom corners at the back.

Then I put a 3/8" X 1" UNC bolt in the T nut and adjust it so the cabinet is perfectly plumb. Dirt simple and infinitely adjustable..............Regards, Rod.

[Chris E Smith]

Anthony, yes I was considering a second cleat in the lower position rather than just a spacer to hold the cabinet out vertical due to the top cleat. As Eric said it's a little tricky to do two cleats and get the cabinet bearing equally on both of them. It's probably total overkill and too much trouble to bother with. I was just curious if anyone does this.

Rod are you saying that you use the T nut in combination with a French cleat system and have that bolt push against the lower cleat or spacer ?

[Anthony Whitesell]

To get it equal, I would attach the top cleat normally and hang the cabinet. Then slide the bottom cleat in behind the cabinet and brad nail it in place through the cabinet back. Then remove the cabinet and screw the cleat in place. Even if it is not perfect distribution it would help with some of the load.

Would the bottom cleat need to be beveled or could it be square?

In my shop there will be pegboard below my cabinets. I was going to use the pegboard frame as the spacer (hoping to make it from the same 3/4" plywood as the cleat). Based on the thoughts here. I may add a bevel to the frame and a second cleat, or just add a second square piece of stock to relieve some of the weight.

What were you thinking of using for screws?

[Biff Phillips]

Google "Monarch Z clip". They have a thin aluminum cleat (you can buy as small clips or longer pieces). Very strong, and you lose a lot less cabinet depth.
I did my kitchen uppers with a 3/4" back too (shiplapped). Was nice not to waste so much space on the cleat. I just put shims at the bottom of the cabinet to make it plumb, and then used fastcap screws with the maple caps to cover them up (they have all wood species, you can stain them to match your wood).

[Rod Sheridan]

Anthony, yes I was considering a second cleat in the lower position rather than just a spacer to hold the cabinet out vertical due to the top cleat. As Eric said it's a little tricky to do two cleats and get the cabinet bearing equally on both of them. It's probably total overkill and too much trouble to bother with. I was just curious if anyone does this.

Rod are you saying that you use the T nut in combination with a French cleat system and have that bolt push against the lower cleat or spacer ?

Hi, no the bolt pushes against the wall, no second cleat required. It's really handy when used with a drywall or concrete wall that isn't perfectly flat...............Rod.

[Anthony Whitesell]

Interesting option. May not work for me, but maybe Chris (OP). Do you know of any brick-and-mortar sources, especially for the strip lengths?

[Chris E Smith]

Thanks for all of the replies and installation tips.

I would use the screws intended for hanging cabinets for sure but have hung other heavy stuff in the shop using deck screws. They will bend rather than snap like drywall screws.

I have made cleats from two pieces of mild steel flat bar welded together to hang other things where minimizing the offset from the wall was a consideration. I hadn't thought about doing it for my kitchen cabinets. I started woodworking before learning to weld and often don't think to bring the two methods together.

[Robert Engel]

Why are you using french cleats to hang kitchen cabinets?
It is unnecessary extra work.

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm a serious hobbyist that built cabinets for our remodeled kitchen. I did lots of research and used rectangular 1x board on the walls. I built the cabinets with 3/4" ply backs and cut wide dados to accept the cleat. It was amazingly easy to install the cabinets almost by myself.

Mike

[Chris E Smith]

Robert
The value of the French cleat for me is that I can attach the cleat to the studs easily and accurately and hanging the cabinet on them is simple for a person working alone. It's somewhat my nature to make things serviceable as well. I wouldn't be surprised if I took a single cabinet down later to add some newly thought of feature to it.
I think people have differing sensibilities about building things and I am certainly one to do extra work for convenience, serviceability and aesthetics.
Chris

[Pat Barry]

Hi, no the bolt pushes against the wall, no second cleat required. It's really handy when used with a drywall or concrete wall that isn't perfectly flat...............Rod.
Rod, If I get this right then you have gaps between the cabinet sides and the walls - ie: you don't scribe the fit of the cabinets to the walls??

[Ellen Benkin]

I used french cleats to hang some heavy bookcases. I used two cleats, one near the top and one near the bottom. Getting everything level and "catching" on the cleats was a pain but I am confident they won't ever fall down!