How to get cleaner cuts?

[Eric Schatz]

I've been turning for about 6 months now and I'm really enjoying it. However, I have so much trouble getting really clean cuts. I watch videos where guys run their bowl gouge on the outside of the bowl and get a nice clean finish that needs 220 and up. I'm having to use 80 grit and take A LOT of time sanding to get it where it needs to go.

My work passes pretty well with people but I know if I had some technique I could REALLY cut down the amount of time I'm spending on making things.

Any videos or articles that outline typical approaches and troubleshooting?

Thanks

[Steve Schlumpf]

Eric, there are lots of available videos on YouTube and I highly recommend anything by Robo Hippy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0qkpDBcgfg&feature=feedu) but also highly suggest getting with an experienced turner and getting some one-on-one instruction. Where are you located??

[daryl moses]

Sharp tools, a light touch and lots and lots of practice.

[Grant Wilkinson]

While there are many youtube videos to choose from, I would suggest that you find Bill Grumbine's basic bowl DVD. He explains different cuts to address knarly grain.

[Jeramie Johnson]

I am a newer turner also, but have run into similar issues. There are many variables, and as we progress we get a better handle on the variables. So far, the following are what come into play for me:

- sharp tools
- type of wood (some tear more than others)
- status of wood green vs dry (you can reduce tear on some species by processing them at different stages)
- speed of lathe (assuming no wobble, the more speed the less tear (with a sharp tool of course)
- orientation of the wood towards the cut
- technique of applying the cut to the spinning object


Trial and error and lots of video (youtube) watching to add tricks when I tackle the hard ones. Just what you typed in for your question, will probably bring up turners on this board who have taken the time to put videos up to help us.

For my tip, I will set some of those aside and try a few days later to see if the tear out is still as severe. But high speed and sharpness are what I use for the finishing passes.

[Eric Schatz]

Eric, there are lots of available videos on YouTube and I highly recommend anything by Robo Hippy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0qkpDBcgfg&feature=feedu) but also highly suggest getting with an experienced turner and getting some one-on-one instruction. Where are you located??

I'm in Terre Haute, Indiana. I dont now of any clubs in the area. The only one I know of is about an hour and a half away.

[Doug Ladendorf]

Look on Vimeo for Stuart Batty's series of videos. I think they are under SB Tools. Also check out his dad(Alan)'s video on the skew - YouTube. I think one of the important things to understand is how the tool cuts the wood. Sounds basic and obvious but if you are having trouble with clean cuts it may be a revelation.

Doug

[Marty Tippin]

You didn't say how you're sharpening your tools, but in my (very limited) experience, having scary-sharp gouges is the key to getting good, clean cuts (along with technique, etc. - but sharp seems to be a prerequisite.)

And stop to sharpen a lot more often than you think you need to.

If you're not already using it, the OneWay Wolverine sharpening jig and a good CBN sharpening wheel are an excellent investment.

And of course some one-on-one instruction/tutoring would go a long way. A local club would be best, but it looks like you're not far from the Marc Adams School of Woodworking and they have a number of week-long turning classes that may be worth your time. http://www.marcadams.com/

[Steve Schlumpf]

Eric, there are a couple of AAW turning clubs near your area - check out this map (http://www.woodturner.org/?page=AAWConnectsMap).

[Geoff Whaling]

- speed of lathe (assuming no wobble, the more speed the less tear (with a sharp tool of course)...... :eek:

Trial and error and lots of video (youtube) watching to add tricks when I tackle the hard ones.

But high speed and sharpness are what I use for the finishing passes.


Eric, be very wary of any advice to increase the lathe speed when turning bowls, platters, Hollow Forms or anything large.

Yes speed will help improve cuts on some woods, within reason and sensible limits, but speed significantly increases risk and the potential for severe injury. Turn at conservative speeds until you develop your repertoire of turning techniques.

Dale Nish proposed a formula on estimating bowl & platter turning speeds

Bowl diameter (in inches) x lathe RPM = 6000 to 9000

i.e. For a 6 “ bowl turn at 1000 to 1500 rpm; a 20” bowl turn between 300 & 450 rpm.

It is a good guide to follow & you will notice that many belt change lathes are not capable of 200 or 300 rpm so it’s a good idea not to turn larger bowls on those lathes at least not as a newbie.

Another way to look at cutting speed or bowl speed at the rim (or to select an appropriate turning speed) is to calculate the tangential velocity if you are a maths geek.

So our 6” bowl example will be doing around 28 to 43 kph or 18 to 28 mph, and very similar speeds for a 20” bowl if you follow the Nish formula.

An 8” diameter bowl at 1000 rpm is doing approximately 38 kph or 23 mph a 20” bowl at 1000 rpm it goes up to 100 kph or 61 mph. It is a linear relationship i.e. double the RPM doubles the speed so a 20” bowl at 2000 rpm it becomes near 200 kph and 122 mph. Now many modern lathes can do 3500 rpm so it is possible to generate an insane 350 kph or 215 mph for a 20 inch bowl.

We simply do not require those speeds as it accelerates wear on the cutting edge so tools get duller faster and risk increases significantly. Lower speeds on many abrasive woods actually improve the cut, so yes trials and experimentation is also good within limits.

Another way is to think about what happens if a chunk flies off the bowl while turning i.e. would you face up to the equivalent of a major league baseball pitcher hitting you with a baseball at 100 mph (with or without protective helmet etc) or would you much prefer it to be a little league pitcher hitting you at 30-40 mph or perhaps a 16 yo at perhaps 60-70 mph. The little league pitch may give you a bruise, the 16 yo could easily put you in the emergency department at your local hospital, the major league pitcher could possibly kill you on the spot. HIGH RPM is major league turning.

Many many accidents have occurred at the lathe from "high speed and sharpness are what I use for the finishing passes." The extra speed for the finishing pass is the last straw.

More benefits, at far less risk, can be found in sharpening tools and improving techniques.

Caveat lector – beware what you read & what you view. You get what you pay for in most cases. Sure there are some good turners on you tube however for every good one there are dozens of bad examples. I would suggest purchasing DVD’s from excellent professional bowl turners such as Stuart Batty, Mike Mahoney, Glen Lucas etc – they really know their stuff and have years of professional experience to back it up.

[Matt Schrum]

.... So far, the following are what come into play for me:

- sharp tools
- type of wood (some tear more than others)
- status of wood green vs dry (you can reduce tear on some species by processing them at different stages)
- speed of lathe (assuming no wobble, the more speed the less tear (with a sharp tool of course)
- orientation of the wood towards the cut
- technique of applying the cut to the spinning object


The first 3 items on there have been the largest variables for me.
-A sharp tool makes a heck of a difference. Even when I just touch up an edge on the grinder, my immediate thought is usually "Shoot, I should have stopped 10 minutes ago and done that" because the difference in cutting is so pronounced
-Wood species is huge. A friend cut down a pine tree and saved me some wood. The grain was so coarse and the wood so soft, I darn near got splinters taking the bowl off the lathe. Compare that to oak, which sometimes comes smooth enough to skip a few grits sanding
-Same on the green vs dried wood. Green wood nearly always leaves some fuzzies behind you have to sand off later once it has dried a bit.

[John K Jordan]

Eric,

First of all, I applaud you for striving for a cleaner cut! I've known turners who are perfectly satisfied with their method of turning rough then fixing it with the "80 grit gouge" and their work shows it. One guy said he uses 60 grit. Ack.

There are several types of "non-clean" cuts that need sanding - one is grain tearout. Tearout REALLY needs to be removed by recutting with very sharp tools and good technique, occasionally with something added to the wood first (CA glue, oil, etc.)

The other roughness is a series of ridges and troughs from poor tool control. (Curves that need to be refined can also fit here.) Besides just more practice, others have already mentioned things that help. I have a few thoughts which may or may not help but is what I do. (I often start with 320/400 paper and sometimes 600, not for bragging rights but because that's all it needs.)

- As someone mentioned, find a club, watch some demos, turn with a friend or mentor, get some honest critique of your methods. Someone else might easily spot something you could do differently and make a big difference. They could check your tool sharpness, stance, toolrest height, etc. Lots of people would be willing to help - I know I love having visitors come to play in my shop. If you find yourself in East Tenn, come visit!

- As mentioned, very sharp tools. The old saying "if you can't sharpen, you can't turn" certainly applies. Not seeing your tools I don't know if this applies but something to think of. I get my best edges using a Tormek but a fine grinding stone or CBN with the Tormek or Wolverine jigs is a close second.

- Honed edges. In addition to sharpening, I like to hone/strop the edges on a leather strap or leather wheel on the Tormek. This can make a huge difference with hard, fine-grained woods like ebony, tulipwood, and dogwood. The wood can't be smoother than the cutting edge. If the edge is polished like a mirror, the wood can be very smooth, given good tool control. I'll sometimes turn a small piece from dogwood just to show people a surface that needs no sanding.

- Spin fast and move the tool slowly. Moving the tool too fast can create ridges that must be removed. I've practiced to move the gouges very slowly - the slower, the smoother the surface can be. Several professional turners have pointed out the same thing. Cowboy-hat turner Chris Ramsey repeated this several times while demoing at our club - his control with a bowl gouge was excellent.

- On a bowl, use shear scraping to take out ridges. The wings of a bowl gouge, a spindle gouge, or a flat or curved scraper work well.

- If you haven't tried them, the Hunter carbide tools can give a very good surface.

- Light touch. As mentioned, a light touch helps a lot. I've seen turners power into hogging out bowls with a big gouge with all their strength, planning a smoother finishing cut. The worst turner I ever saw at a demo turned like this. The problem was his finishing cut wasn't much better. What I do and highly recommend is at least while refining the surface shape, make every cut a practice cut. Try to make each practice cut as smooth as possible This will certainly take longer, but by the time you do a bunch of these in a row your hands and arms and stance are ready for the money cut.

- Tool control, light touch, spindle turning. The experts (Darlow, Raffan, Penta, Clewes, etc) have said: spindle turning will teach you fine tool control and just the right touch. In a class once Jimmy Clewes came around to give each person some personal help and when I told him I was primarily a spindle turner he said oh, you won't have any trouble with this and went on to the next person. Raffan teaches spindle turning first before touching a bowl. I was told it's the same in the schools.

When I teach beginners, we start with spindles I always start them with the skew chisel - it really doesn't take long before they can handle almost any tool. People who start turning and go straight to bowls sometimes miss so much.

These two girls never touched a lathe before. After we spent on long day on spindles they made these on the second lesson, their first attempts. No power sanding needed. (These are glossy with wet oil.)

329186


Now for my secret weapon. Instead of sanding I reach for small cabinet scrapers. These are worthless for removing tearout (go back and make a clean cut for that) but they are perfect for any kind of ridges, the bottom of the bowl/plate/platter, inside and out. I use them at slow speed, both forward and reverse, and very often with the lathe turned off. Sometimes I'll remove the piece and sit with the scraper. I confess that once I started using these years ago I haven't used sandpaper coarse sandpaper on a bowl or platter, most often nothing coarser than 400 is needed. A friend scoffed at this claim until he came and watched, then he wanted to know where I got my scrapers! I bought some from Highland Hardware, some from Woodcraft, some online somewhere.

Just like the other tools, these scrapers must be sharpened correctly. I bought some from Highland Hardware, some from Woodcraft. They can be ground from larger flat scrapers as well. I use these in my hand in the air, unsupported. They work on green wood as well as what I mostly turn, very dry wood.

329185

Once I started using these scrapers I haven't even pulled my power sanding gear out of the drawer. As a huge health bonus, there are no clouds of sanding dust. Another bonus is sharp detail is easily preserved, detail that sanding will often soften.

JKJ

[Eric Gourieux]

I'm in Terre Haute, Indiana. I dont now of any clubs in the area. The only one I know of is about an hour and a half away.


Eric, we have a turning club in Evansville with plenty of new and experienced turners. We meet the second Sunday of the month. After the meeting, I would be willing to take you to my shop and give you some hands on lessons and practice. I have plenty of wood. PM me if you are interested

[Eric Schatz]

Great info. Thanks for posting.


Eric, be very wary of any advice to increase the lathe speed when turning bowls, platters, Hollow Forms or anything large.

Yes speed will help improve cuts on some woods, within reason and sensible limits, but speed significantly increases risk and the potential for severe injury. Turn at conservative speeds until you develop your repertoire of turning techniques.

Dale Nish proposed a formula on estimating bowl & platter turning speeds

Bowl diameter (in inches) x lathe RPM = 6000 to 9000

i.e. For a 6 “ bowl turn at 1000 to 1500 rpm; a 20” bowl turn between 300 & 450 rpm.

It is a good guide to follow & you will notice that many belt change lathes are not capable of 200 or 300 rpm so it’s a good idea not to turn larger bowls on those lathes at least not as a newbie.

Another way to look at cutting speed or bowl speed at the rim (or to select an appropriate turning speed) is to calculate the tangential velocity if you are a maths geek.

So our 6” bowl example will be doing around 28 to 43 kph or 18 to 28 mph, and very similar speeds for a 20” bowl if you follow the Nish formula.

An 8” diameter bowl at 1000 rpm is doing approximately 38 kph or 23 mph a 20” bowl at 1000 rpm it goes up to 100 kph or 61 mph. It is a linear relationship i.e. double the RPM doubles the speed so a 20” bowl at 2000 rpm it becomes near 200 kph and 122 mph. Now many modern lathes can do 3500 rpm so it is possible to generate an insane 350 kph or 215 mph for a 20 inch bowl.

We simply do not require those speeds as it accelerates wear on the cutting edge so tools get duller faster and risk increases significantly. Lower speeds on many abrasive woods actually improve the cut, so yes trials and experimentation is also good within limits.

Another way is to think about what happens if a chunk flies off the bowl while turning i.e. would you face up to the equivalent of a major league baseball pitcher hitting you with a baseball at 100 mph (with or without protective helmet etc) or would you much prefer it to be a little league pitcher hitting you at 30-40 mph or perhaps a 16 yo at perhaps 60-70 mph. The little league pitch may give you a bruise, the 16 yo could easily put you in the emergency department at your local hospital, the major league pitcher could possibly kill you on the spot. HIGH RPM is major league turning.

Many many accidents have occurred at the lathe from "high speed and sharpness are what I use for the finishing passes." The extra speed for the finishing pass is the last straw.

More benefits, at far less risk, can be found in sharpening tools and improving techniques.

Caveat lector – beware what you read & what you view. You get what you pay for in most cases. Sure there are some good turners on you tube however for every good one there are dozens of bad examples. I would suggest purchasing DVD’s from excellent professional bowl turners such as Stuart Batty, Mike Mahoney, Glen Lucas etc – they really know their stuff and have years of professional experience to back it up.

[Eric Schatz]

This is very helpful. I'll take a look at using my scraper.


Eric,

First of all, I applaud you for striving for a cleaner cut! I've known turners who are perfectly satisfied with their method of turning rough then fixing it with the "80 grit gouge" and their work shows it. One guy said he uses 60 grit. Ack.

There are several types of "non-clean" cuts that need sanding - one is grain tearout. Tearout REALLY needs to be removed by recutting with very sharp tools and good technique, occasionally with something added to the wood first (CA glue, oil, etc.)

The other roughness is a series of ridges and troughs from poor tool control. (Curves that need to be refined can also fit here.) Besides just more practice, others have already mentioned things that help. I have a few thoughts which may or may not help but is what I do. (I often start with 320/400 paper and sometimes 600, not for bragging rights but because that's all it needs.)

- As someone mentioned, find a club, watch some demos, turn with a friend or mentor, get some honest critique of your methods. Someone else might easily spot something you could do differently and make a big difference. They could check your tool sharpness, stance, toolrest height, etc. Lots of people would be willing to help - I know I love having visitors come to play in my shop. If you find yourself in East Tenn, come visit!

- As mentioned, very sharp tools. The old saying "if you can't sharpen, you can't turn" certainly applies. Not seeing your tools I don't know if this applies but something to think of. I get my best edges using a Tormek but a fine grinding stone or CBN with the Tormek or Wolverine jigs is a close second.

- Honed edges. In addition to sharpening, I like to hone/strop the edges on a leather strap or leather wheel on the Tormek. This can make a huge difference with hard, fine-grained woods like ebony, tulipwood, and dogwood. The wood can't be smoother than the cutting edge. If the edge is polished like a mirror, the wood can be very smooth, given good tool control. I'll sometimes turn a small piece from dogwood just to show people a surface that needs no sanding.

- Spin fast and move the tool slowly. Moving the tool too fast can create ridges that must be removed. I've practiced to move the gouges very slowly - the slower, the smoother the surface can be. Several professional turners have pointed out the same thing. Cowboy-hat turner Chris Ramsey repeated this several times while demoing at our club - his control with a bowl gouge was excellent.

- On a bowl, use shear scraping to take out ridges. The wings of a bowl gouge, a spindle gouge, or a flat or curved scraper work well.

- If you haven't tried them, the Hunter carbide tools can give a very good surface.

- Light touch. As mentioned, a light touch helps a lot. I've seen turners power into hogging out bowls with a big gouge with all their strength, planning a smoother finishing cut. The worst turner I ever saw at a demo turned like this. The problem was his finishing cut wasn't much better. What I do and highly recommend is at least while refining the surface shape, make every cut a practice cut. Try to make each practice cut as smooth as possible This will certainly take longer, but by the time you do a bunch of these in a row your hands and arms and stance are ready for the money cut.

- Tool control, light touch, spindle turning. The experts (Darlow, Raffan, Penta, Clewes, etc) have said: spindle turning will teach you fine tool control and just the right touch. In a class once Jimmy Clewes came around to give each person some personal help and when I told him I was primarily a spindle turner he said oh, you won't have any trouble with this and went on to the next person. Raffan teaches spindle turning first before touching a bowl. I was told it's the same in the schools.

When I teach beginners, we start with spindles I always start them with the skew chisel - it really doesn't take long before they can handle almost any tool. People who start turning and go straight to bowls sometimes miss so much.

These two girls never touched a lathe before. After we spent on long day on spindles they made these on the second lesson, their first attempts. No power sanding needed. (These are glossy with wet oil.)

329186


Now for my secret weapon. Instead of sanding I reach for small cabinet scrapers. These are worthless for removing tearout (go back and make a clean cut for that) but they are perfect for any kind of ridges, the bottom of the bowl/plate/platter, inside and out. I use them at slow speed, both forward and reverse, and very often with the lathe turned off. Sometimes I'll remove the piece and sit with the scraper. I confess that once I started using these years ago I haven't used sandpaper coarse sandpaper on a bowl or platter, most often nothing coarser than 400 is needed. A friend scoffed at this claim until he came and watched, then he wanted to know where I got my scrapers! I bought some from Highland Hardware, some from Woodcraft, some online somewhere.

Just like the other tools, these scrapers must be sharpened correctly. I bought some from Highland Hardware, some from Woodcraft. They can be ground from larger flat scrapers as well. I use these in my hand in the air, unsupported. They work on green wood as well as what I mostly turn, very dry wood.

329185

Once I started using these scrapers I haven't even pulled my power sanding gear out of the drawer. As a huge health bonus, there are no clouds of sanding dust. Another bonus is sharp detail is easily preserved, detail that sanding will often soften.

JKJ

[John Grace]

Though implied one item I haven't seen mentioned specifically is tool rest support. The closer the rest is to the work the easier it is to control the tool as well as lowering vibrations.

[Reed Gray]

I think just about every thing has been covered. The higher speed thing does work to a point, but to me it is more because I am pushing the gouge at a slower speed rather than the wood moving faster. Mistakes at high speed get dramatically bigger. Tools need to be sharp, but scary sharp is mostly used for skew chisels. The edge that goes on a hand plane or bench chisel is rather delicate for bowl turning.

The three points that I make for less sanding are 1) tools must be sharp. 2) presenting the tool to the wood as in a high shear angle cuts better/more cleanly than a scraping cut, and how to avoid catches. 3) moving with the tool which is all about moving with your body rather than just pushing with your arms so you get a more even surface and smooth curves.

I have found that when turning dry wood, I can start at higher grits than I can with green wood. I really have no idea why this happens. Most of the time when I start sanding, I am at 100 or 120 grit. Some times 80 grit. Most of the green wood oxidizes as it dries, especially if there is sap wood in the bowl. Most of the time I will sand off all of the oxidization because it looks better. I probably could start with 120 or above some times, but it is faster to start lower some times. Most of the sanding is not to remove bumps and humps, but to remove small tool marks. Firm interface pad for the sander till I hit 220.

robo hippy

[Prashun Patel]

Great tips here. I've learned a few!

One thing that helped me is to think of turning in 3 stages:

Roughing,
Shaping,
Smoothing.

I had a tough time going right from those aggressive hollowing cuts to a finished cut quality. By easing up on the shaping cut pressure, I found it possible to achieve smoother final cuts.

I think this is more psychological than anything else. But the point is, lightening up on the cut throughout your process and think of the pressure/aggressiveness as grits of sandpaper. Just as you wouldn't expect to jump from 80 grit right to 220 grit, it's hard to go from a roughing cut straight to a smoothing cut. The pressure has to be gradually reduced throughout the process. You need those middle pressure cuts to take you to a surface that can be smoothed with those beautiful, final, wispy scrapes.

Sadly, though, I have found in the end the only REAL way to get here is to practice, practice, practice. It is a matter of touch and tool control more than anything else. Turn your lathe off often and locate bumps and rough spots with your fingers. Then when you turn the lathe on, force yourself to think about it and FEEL those imperfections with your gouge. I know it sounds hoakie, but to a surprisingly large degree, you can train your hands to feel these areas.

[John K Jordan]

Turn your lathe off often and locate bumps and rough spots with your fingers. Then when you turn the lathe on, force yourself to think about it and FEEL those imperfections with your gouge.

This is incredibly good advice. From some of the turnings I've seen and felt (especially on the inside) it's something some have not yet discovered.

After the touch test you can often feel the high spots with the tool by dragging it backwards a couple of times over the problem area before making a very fine correction cut, what I call a "neak" cut (just "neak up on it"), what some describe as a "feather" or "whisper" cut.

What always helped me with the insides of a bowl, goblet, etc.: after feeling the "high" spots mark them with a fat pencil with the lathe spinning (make them darkest where highest), then turn away the pencil marks. Repeat till perfect.

This should not be needed as much on the outside of a form since watching the profile at the top reveals everything. That's something else that should probably be pointed out in this thread - when shaping the outside don't watch the tool but watch the profile at the top of the turning.

Another thing I rely on for a good surface is good light. Broad, diffuse lights like long fluorescent fixtures on the ceiling can work against you since they actually hide surface imperfections. Same with lights behind you, over your shoulder. (Ever try to walk on a cave floor with a headlamp?) Even tiny imperfections in shape and surface are more visible with a smaller light source coming from the side, the so-called "point" source. I do have bright fluorescents above my lathes for general light but when turning I cut them off and use several small bright lights at the lathe. These are in adjustable fixtures such as goosenecks that I can reposition as needed. A bright flashlight held at a glancing angle can also make any bumps pretty obvious.

JKJ

[Geoff Whaling]

Great tips here. I've learned a few!

One thing that helped me is to think of turning in 3 stages:

Roughing,
Shaping,
Smoothing.

I had a tough time going right from those aggressive hollowing cuts to a finished cut quality. By easing up on the shaping cut pressure, I found it possible to achieve smoother final cuts.

I think this is more psychological than anything else. But the point is, lightening up on the cut throughout your process and think of the pressure/aggressiveness as grits of sandpaper. Just as you wouldn't expect to jump from 80 grit right to 220 grit, it's hard to go from a roughing cut straight to a smoothing cut. The pressure has to be gradually reduced throughout the process. You need those middle pressure cuts to take you to a surface that can be smoothed with those beautiful, final, wispy scrapes.

Sadly, though, I have found in the end the only REAL way to get here is to practice, practice, practice. It is a matter of touch and tool control more than anything else. Turn your lathe off often and locate bumps and rough spots with your fingers. Then when you turn the lathe on, force yourself to think about it and FEEL those imperfections with your gouge. I know it sounds hoakie, but to a surprisingly large degree, you can train your hands to feel these areas.

Certainly good advice ... I agree. As you gain more experience these actions become more automatic. If you closely watch many very skilled turners, like Guilio Marcolongo, John Jordan, Nick Agar, Glenn Lucas etc demonstrate, you will observe how incredible their "tool feel" is - the tool becomes almost an extension of their hands & fingers.

[John Beaver]

Interesting that I just read through this entire post and nobody mentioned "riding" or "rubbing" the bevel.
I do a fair amount of teaching, and am amazed how many turners to not ride the bevel.
Start with the bevel on the wood and the cutting edge slightly off the wood so the tool isn't cutting. Slowly lift the handle until it starts to cut. This is where the tool is working at it's optimum. This and a sharp tool will give you the cleanest most effective cut.

[John K Jordan]

Interesting that I just read through this entire post and nobody mentioned "riding" or "rubbing" the bevel.

That is a good point. I suspect that is partially since it quickly becomes so natural most turners never think of it. When I teach we do the same exercises.

BTW, I always start new students with spindles and the skew. I think this is the best for learning how to use the bevel and edge. I also do what I read somewhere - before turning the lathe on I turn it by hand while the student practices the first cuts on a cylinder. This makes it easier to understand just what is going on.

JKJ

[Dick Strauss]

I like to think of it as "floating the bevel" so there is not too much pressure between the tool edge and the turning. IMHO it is more important with blunt nose angles like bottom feeder gouges with 60 degree+ nose angles.

[Thomas Canfield]

Eric,

You can learn a lot about improving your cutting by turning some bowls out of 2x6 construction lumber. The wood typically has both soft and harder grain and the end grain cuts area requires sharp cutting tools to prevent tearout. I have been picking up scraps from rafters of several new houses in area, and have done a club demo on the use of 2x6 to learn. You can get a lot of practice with your tool presentation and see results of sharpening. I expect that you will learn to sharpen earlier rather than try to get one more pass before going to sharpen and have tearout to repair.

[John Grace]

While I agree with some of Geoff's comments with respects to speed I would take a different tack. Speed is just another tool of the medium in which we work. And like all tools, speed can be useful when learned and used properly. So just like that scary skew, learn how to use speed both safely and correctly and your work will improve in all aspects.

[Geoff Whaling]

While I agree with some of Geoff's comments with respects to speed I would take a different tack. Speed is just another tool of the medium in which we work. And like all tools, speed can be useful when learned and used properly. So just like that scary skew, learn how to use speed both safely and correctly and your work will improve in all aspects.

John, I completely agree with you - speed when used to our advantage is another variable which we have control over. However a lot of turners simply do not understand the hazards and risks of using speed on thin turnings, or blanks with "character." It is so easy to dial up the lathe rpm without understanding the speed involved at the rim of a large bowl or platter.