Festool Kapex

[Mike Henderson]

Some time back, I posted in someone's thread that I was getting a Kapex. I got it and have it installed.

First, I tried hooking it to my shop dust collection system but the 36mm hose seemed to constrict the amount of air and dust collection was not very good. So I went to Home Depot and found a Ridgid vacuum that they had as an "open box", missing the hoses and ends. That was perfect for me because I would not have used them anyway. They gave me a significant discount on it.

With that connected to the Kapex, the dust collection is better, but there's still a good bit of swarf that doesn't get collected. I built a shelf to put the vacuum on because there was no other place for it. I'll just have to remember to get up there and check if the vacuum is full occasionally.

Overall, the dust collection is better than with my old miter saw, because I would use the old saw without turning the DC on. On this one, I have one of those devices that turns the vacuum on whenever I start up the Kapex.

In the spirit of "No picture, didn't happen" I'm attaching a picture of the saw and the vacuum.

Mike

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[Mike Cutler]

Mike

Very nice! The Kapex is a sweet machine. Nice work station you have for it also.
Is the shroud around it purpose built for the machine, or was it for what you used to have?

PS
Intersting storage solution for extraction super frames. ;)

[Mike Henderson]

Thanks for your comments, Mike. The shroud was built for my previous saw. Since I wasn't religious about using the DC, it spit out a lot of swarf. The Kapex is much better.

Yes, I had to find some place to store those frames and the light fixture seemed like it would work:)

Mike

BTW, if anyone who lives in this area is interested in a very nice Bosch 12" miter saw, let me know.

[peter gagliardi]

Its too late now to save you the vac purchase, but ....
First, you want the hose to attach over the outside of the dust port on the saw, not inside it, for the best capture rate.
Second, if you are getting marginal or unsatisfactory dust pick up, its probably your technique that needs adjusting on how you introduce the blade into the stock to perform the cut. On wide flat boards, drop the head lightly into the stock about 1/16" to 1/8", draw the saw level back to you, then drop the blade below the front edge and push the saw back at full depth.
I can cut trim in a clients living room all day with this technique, and there is virtually no clean up to be done.
Every other saw i have had required outside cutting- not beneficial in rain, blizzards, or sub zero temps.
Just experiment a little.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

I've been eyeing the Kapex for some time now and the wife hinted that she MIGHT get it for me on Fathers day..... (hopefully sooner) :)

How do you like the saw overall? Love to hear some feedback about the saw before it comes time for me to get one.

[Brian Tymchak]

On wide flat boards, drop the head lightly into the stock about 1/16" to 1/8", draw the saw level back to you, then drop the blade below the front edge and push the saw back at full depth.


Peter, it's not apparent to me why this technique leads to better dust collection. Can you provide more explanation?

Thanks, Brian

[Jim German]

I've been eyeing the Kapex for some time now and the wife hinted that she MIGHT get it for me on Fathers day..... (hopefully sooner) :)

How do you like the saw overall? Love to hear some feedback about the saw before it comes time for me to get one.

I'm going to post a video review in a few days, but ahead of that I'd say its the most disappointing Festool product I've used. It does make a very nice, very accurate cut, and the DC is better than any other miter saw I've used. But still I don't like the ergonomics, the build quality or the capacity of the saw. While the DC is good, its not on par with the DC on other Festools.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

I'm going to post a video review in a few days, but ahead of that I'd say its the most disappointing Festool product I've used. It does make a very nice, very accurate cut, and the DC is better than any other miter saw I've used. But still I don't like the ergonomics, the build quality or the capacity of the saw. While the DC is good, its not on par with the DC on other Festools.

Please do post a link to the video whenever you get around to it. I have a 12" Dewalt slider right now and while it's been good to me, I'm a fan of festool and would like to switch but don't need to waste $1500. I'll just apply it to a few sanders if it's as bad as you say.

I'd still like to hear from the OP about his review as well.

[Mike Henderson]

First, you want the hose to attach over the outside of the dust port on the saw, not inside it, for the best capture rate.
Yep, the hose attaches over the dust port, not inside. And the hose is approximately 36mm, not the 27mm hose. I doubt that the Festool vac sucks harder or more air than the Ridgid so I'm satisfied the Ridgid will work as well as a Festool vac on the Kapex.

I suppose I could reduce the non-collected swarf with a change in my technique, but the amount of non-collected is not too bad. I'll try your suggestions, however.

As Jim commented above, the dust collection is not on a par with other Festool products. Maybe it's just that it's very hard to do good dust collection on a miter saw. It certainly seems better than my Bosch miter saw.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I've been eyeing the Kapex for some time now and the wife hinted that she MIGHT get it for me on Father's day..... (hopefully sooner) :)

How do you like the saw overall? Love to hear some feedback about the saw before it comes time for me to get one.

I don't have a lot of time with it, but so far it seems to be a good, solid saw. I haven't run into any real performance issues with it yet. It's different so I just have to adjust to the way things are done on this saw (such as how to lock the miter location down - it's opposite from the Bosch). It's easy to adjust and use.

Probably the biggest "issue" is the cost - and the question of whether you can get another brand of saw that will do as good of a job for you. I got a deal on this one - paid a bit less than 70% of new cost - so it was hard to pass up. I don't think I would have bought it for full price.

I had a Bosch 12" non-slider before this and it is a good saw. It is accurate and powerful. The one thing I wanted was more cutting width and that meant a slider. I wanted to maintain the accuracy of the cut and that led me to the Kapex.

I'll try to post again after I get more use on it.

Mike

[I'll just add that I'm not a Festool fanboy. I have the 500 Domino, the 55 track saw and now the Kapex. I think the Domino is wonderful and the track saw works very well - but I don't have experience with the other brands of track saws. I had the Carvex jig saw and found I didn't use it much. I also had one of the Festool drills and it was no better than the DeWalt drills I have now. I've used Festool sanders and didn't think they were better than other sanders I've used. I've never used the Festool routers but, in just looking at them, I can't see anything about them that would make me convert from the routers I have now.]

[Tom Ewell]

Most folks expect too much because of the price, it's a nice very accurate saw but it's not head and shoulders above the newer top end saws from the other major brands that we usually purchase.

On mine I like the controls, the clamping system, the portability and yes the very tight dual lasers which I have dialed in to where I like them. Dust control is what it is and may be very dependent on the type of cut and the 'suckage' available but since it's not a closed cutting operation there will be some dust... don't know how it would compare to the new saws by other but I do know it's a heck of a lot better than without hooking up the vac.

I've had mine since early 2010 and can't really complain because I knew the cut specs of the saw going in, what I was purchasing was something I figured I keep around for a great while.

If one goes to FOG you will find that there is a love/hate relationship with the saw, particularly hated by those who experienced dead saw problems.
I would read about a problem, check for that problem and discover that mine was just fine. The one that concerns me is the dead saw thing since I'm out of warranty but no sleep is lost and not knowing the exact parameters leading up to a dead saw leads to speculation about the conditions and it's user.

On mine, the working surface is flat, the fence is square, the operation (with proper maintenance) is very smooth, virtually no 'play' in moving parts (including runout), I've experienced no more, no less kickback than the other multitude of saws I've used in this category, dust collection is there and serviceable, and it's been used a lot for cabinetry, trim out and some but not much heavy framing. It has not, however, been abused and new operators get a quick 'training session' to it's functions and proper technique for this type of saw.

The ergonomics do take some getting used to, I prefer the D handles on saws like DeWalt but with practice the Kapex becomes second nature, my old Makita had similar ergonomics so it was nothing new to me except for the additional lockout on the Kapex.

[Frank Pratt]

I have an old Makita 12" SCMS that is a very good saw, but probably the worst for dust collection. I build a surround, similar to your's, but with a roof on it as well. There is an 8" collector duct that connects to the top of the box & a 2" hose that taps off the collector duct & connects to the saw. Absolutely no dust escapes the surround. There is a small amount that accumulates on the bottom of the box, but I can just unplug the 2" hose & suck it up with that every few weeks.

[peter gagliardi]

Peter, it's not apparent to me why this technique leads to better dust collection. Can you provide more explanation?

Thanks, Brian

Because by doing so, you use the airstream and force of the sawblade in conjunction with the vac-they work in unison. Just dropping the saw into the work at the fence doesnt allow this to happen to the same degree, it actually creates a cloud effect because the wind from the teeth hits the top of board, and bounces back up off the surface. Essentially like pitching and catching.

[mreza Salav]

I've used a Kapex as I was working side-by-side with my finisher. He had actually two (using one as spare parts). I think it is a nice saw but not much better (beyond the good DC) than other top end saws (I have the Milwaukee 12" slider). Having the controls in front and not taking as much space at the back (due to the rails) is good. However, it seems as a job-site saw the plastic components (especially the ones in the back) break far too easily. I witnessed one due to a kick back of a small piece hitting it.
I have some Festool tools (TS75 track saw, domino, sander, etc), just for the record that I'm not a Festool hater....

[Rob Damon]

Mike, Don't forget to download the supplemental manual from the Festool site:

http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/Kapex-KS120-Supplemental-Manual.pdf



Rob

[Mike Henderson]

Mike, Don't forget to download the supplemental manual from the Festool site:

http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/Kapex-KS120-Supplemental-Manual.pdf



Rob
Yep, I got it. Thanks.

Good manual.

Mike

[Rob Damon]

If you have small things to cut at 90 degree or 45 degrees, you can build a simple ell base and fence (I used 3/4" plywood) and clamp it with through bolts to the regular fence. Then use the depth stop adjustment to raise the blade up so that is just skims the base and you have a zero insert clearance setup and will get a really clean cut. When I was making some picture frames and I even added some toggle hold down clamps to the wood base to hold the wood closer to the blade than I would want my fingers to be.

[Mike Henderson]

If you have small things to cut at 90 degree or 45 degrees, you can build a simple ell base and fence (I used 3/4" plywood) and clamp it with through bolts to the regular fence. Then use the depth stop adjustment to raise the blade up so that is just skims the base and you have a zero insert clearance setup and will get a really clean cut. When I was making some picture frames and I even added some toggle hold down clamps to the wood base to hold the wood closer to the blade than I would want my fingers to be.
That's a great idea. Thanks. I do cut small things sometimes and that will really help support them. I'll make one of those.

And that's something that many miter saws can't do - the Kapex has a feature that allows you to limit the "drop" of the head. It was designed for cutting dados but your suggestion is an excellent way to take advantage of that feature. (Do any other sliders have that "drop limit" feature?)

Mike

[Brian Tymchak]

Because by doing so, you use the airstream and force of the sawblade in conjunction with the vac-they work in unison. Just dropping the saw into the work at the fence doesnt allow this to happen to the same degree, it actually creates a cloud effect because the wing from the teeth hits the top of board, and bounces back up off the surface.

Thanks Peter. I will give that a try.

[William M Johnson]

One thing I never see mentioned about the Kapex is that a cut is joint ready. The cuts are glassy smooth, at 90 deg angles. I no longer use the jointer if I have either the Kapex or the TS55/75.

[Jerome Stanek]

One thing I never see mentioned about the Kapex is that a cut is joint ready. The cuts are glassy smooth, at 90 deg angles. I no longer use the jointer if I have either the Kapex or the TS55/75.

Any quality miter saw should do this it is not something that is exclusive to Kapex.

[Hoang N Nguyen]

Any quality miter saw should do this it is not something that is exclusive to Kapex.

I'd say this is more due to the blade then it is the saw.

[Mike Henderson]

If you have small things to cut at 90 degree or 45 degrees, you can build a simple ell base and fence (I used 3/4" plywood) and clamp it with through bolts to the regular fence. Then use the depth stop adjustment to raise the blade up so that is just skims the base and you have a zero insert clearance setup and will get a really clean cut. When I was making some picture frames and I even added some toggle hold down clamps to the wood base to hold the wood closer to the blade than I would want my fingers to be.

I though Rob had a great suggestion (above) so I made a few zero clearance ell bases for my Kapex. You can see the 90 degree one here.
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The Kapex has a feature that allows you to set the depth that the head will go down so you can set it to not cut completely through the bottom board.
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I had to cut maybe an eighth of an inch into the board because the blade is circular and would not cut the last little bit unless you sink the blade into the bottom a small amount. But the big advantage is that you don't cut through the bottom board so you can use the jig over and over. There's some play in the holes in the Kapex so you do have to align the slot in the jig with the blade when you install it.

Here's a closeup of the slot. You can see that the cut is all the way through the back but not through the bottom.
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I also made a jig for 45 each way.
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So I guess that's one advantage of the Kapex - the ability to limit how much the head plunges down.

Mike

[Susumu Mori]

Hi Mike (and Rod),

This is a fantastic idea. I want to make them too, but got two questions;

> Can you still use the hold down?
> I suspect the dust collection won't be good?

[Rob Damon]

It depends on how thick the vertical leg you use is.

That is why I just added some toggle hold down clamps on the new fence.

The benefit to the auxiliary fence is if the cut is fractionally off 90 degree or 45 degree angle cuts , you can shim the fence to get dead on angles and good as a shooting board......

Since this is more for small pieces, dust collection is not a major concern.

[Mike Henderson]

It depends on how thick the vertical leg you use is.

That is why I just added some toggle hold down clamps on the new fence.

Also, Mike, it looks like you cut all the way through the bottom. Us the depth stop lever on the Kapex and you can raise the blade up permanently, so it does not cut through the bottom piece.

No, I did not cut through the bottom. I only cut about 1/8" into the bottom. The reason I had to do that is when the head was moved all the way forward (with the blade just kissing the bottom) it would not cut all the way through the work because of the curvature of the blade. I could have fixed that by making the back thicker but didn't mind cutting about 1/8" into the bottom.

Yes, I used the depth stop to limit how much the head would depress.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

Hi Mike (and Rod),

This is a fantastic idea. I want to make them too, but got two questions;

> Can you still use the hold down?
> I suspect the dust collection won't be good?

I haven't tried the hold down but will go to the shop and see if it works. What I have done in the past for really short things is to take a piece of wood and lay it on the work (just shy of the blade) and clamp that piece of wood down hard. That keeps the work held in place, especially with the back support.

Yep, dust collection kind of is not good when using the jig.

Mike

[Rob Damon]

The aux fence also really helps on small pieces or cut offs to keep them from get caught in the blade and shooting backward after the cut.

[Mike Henderson]

Hi Mike (and Rod),

This is a fantastic idea. I want to make them too, but got two questions;

> Can you still use the hold down?
> I suspect the dust collection won't be good?

Nope, you can't use the hold down with the jig. It doesn't extend out far enough and it hits the back of the jig. See pix.

Mike
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[Rob Damon]

Here is what I did for mine. It will do both 45 degree cuts and maintains the dust collection. The hold down in the middle clears the blade easily on both sides of the blade.

This one was made specifically for the dozen picture frames I have been making for the wife. (I did document the process of the picture frames construction but never got around to posting them, because they were pretty straight forward in making them. They are oak with Redheart inlay strips.)

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I shimmed the Aux fence with a piece of paper to get it dead on with the shooting board so it only took one pass with the plane.

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[Mike Henderson]

That looks good, Rob. I'll modify my jigs to incorporate some of your ideas.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

I've used the Kapex for a while now. It's a good, accurate saw. I like the additional crosscut length I get compared to my previous saw. Getting accustomed to pulling the head out and then making the cut with an inward slide was easy.

It's better on dust collection than my old saw - although it's difficult to make a head-to-head comparison. I had my old saw hooked to my dust collection system and sometimes I didn't turn the DC on before making a cut. With the Kapex, I have it connect to a shop vac and the vac turns on automatically when I turn on the saw. I'm using a 36mm hose on the vac to Kapex hookup.

But even with that, there's swarf all over my miter saw station. I guess you just can't capture all the dust from a miter saw, no matter what.

Would I buy it again?? I got it for a good price so I suppose I would purchase it again for that price. But if I had to pay full freight, I think I'd look at other miter saws, maybe the new Bosch (http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-CM10GD-10-Inch-Bevel-15-Amp/dp/B00G5R4E9A/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_sims?ie=UTF8).

Mike

[Let me add that my previous saw - a 12" Bosch - was very accurate. The main reason I bought the Kapex was to get greater cut length and for the swarf collection. The Kapex is as accurate or maybe even a bit more accurate than my Bosch.]

[Susumu Mori]

I found DC of my Kapex deteriorates noticeably with a zero-clearance back board. But if I don't use it, the cutting quality suffers.
That is the dilemma I always face.
I also found the calibration by the position of the angle gauge is frustrating but at least it holds the calibration well and I assume the calibration won't be easy for any miter saws....

[Rick Potter]

One suggestion for you Mike.

If you could figure out how to put the small Dust Deputy between the saw and the shop vac, you will rarely have to check the filter on the vac. With out it, the filter will clog long before the vac is full. Perhaps you could use a smaller 3 gallon bucket to save space?

I have my DeWalt attached to this type (Clearvue Mini) setup, and it works well.

[Mike Henderson]

One suggestion for you Mike.

If you could figure out how to put the small Dust Deputy between the saw and the shop vac, you will rarely have to check the filter on the vac. Perhaps you could use a smaller 3 gallon bucket to save space?

I have my DeWalt attached to this type (Clearvue Mini) setup, and it works well.

Good suggestion, Rick. I'll look into where I could mount it. If I can find a place, I'll get one.

If I have to mount it high - due to space problems - I just as well leave the vac. I put a bag in the vac so that the main filter didn't get clogged so quickly.

Mike