Slider Questions

[Dan Schmidt]

1 - for those of you who use sliders to rip 4x8 sheets, is such a support on the sliding bed necessary (shown here with red arrow) to support the back left corner of the sheet?

2 - for those of you with Felder units specifically, do you have the new swing-away overhead blade guard as shown (green arrow)? Experiences good/bad?


329054

Dan

[Jim Becker]

"Highly recommended". You want to be able to keep the sheet from deflecting...even with it clamped down, there's a bit of weight that could cause it to move off accurate. On my MiniMax slider, I have a miter bar setup in that position (factory supplied) and it serves the purpose when I'm working with a full sheet. I just adjust it's position so it supports without binding. A miter bar in that position is actually quite handy...when doing delicate cross cutting of things, pushing through the blade gives better support and doesn't require clamping.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

1. Yes. Even cutting full-size 5x5 BB plywood is troublesome without the infeed end (near your standing position) support. No experience with full size, longitudinal 4x8 sheet cutting (K3's 79" limit), but can imagine that it would be just as bad without such a support.

2. I'd get it. I have the Euro II saw guard on my saw. It works OK, but I can't use a riving knife that is lower profile. I have to take off the standard riving knife and the guard every time I use the blade to make a kerf-size dado. Annoying!

[David Kumm]

Also go the airtightclamps.com and look at the pneumatic clamps. Felder makes some too but I think the Airtight are more flexible. Not cheap but if you are into a new Felder you are used to that. Dave

[Erik Loza]

...for those of you who use sliders to rip 4x8 sheets, is such a support on the sliding bed necessary (shown here with red arrow) to support the back left corner of the sheet?...

In my opinion, yes. It is standard with with all Minimax panel-length sliders, by the way. Not sure about other vendors...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/SC4%20Elite/VegasSC4Elite.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Combo%20Seminars/012LongRip.jpg

Regarding overhead saw guards and speaking only for my customers, most with 315mm saws don't order that option. It's standard (required) on any saw over 350mm but from a usability standpoint, I don't it necessarily better or faster than the regular plastic guard.

Erik

[Kevin Jenness]

I have never seen the rear panel support used in commercial shops. It's easy enough to support the left rear sheet corner with your left hand for the first dust cut and subsequent rips require less support at that point. I'm sure it could be handy, but not required in my opinion.

[Joe Calhoon]

We worked for years without the rear support. We have one now, nice when I remember to use it but for sheet goods you can get by without. Mounting a parallel fence to those supports is a good thing though.
As Dave mentioned the Airtight clamps are the biggest improvement we made to our slider.

329098
329099

Usefull for jobs like this though
329101

[Dan Schmidt]

Lot's of agreement about Airtight clamps. I can only assume the real benefit here is for high volume / commercial applications. I can see how pneumatic clamps would be faster for repeat operations. For a serious hobbiest, I don't see the value, but I'm also learning a ton, so.....

[Kevin Jenness]

And for a cheapskate's alternative...

[Joe Calhoon]

Lot's of agreement about Airtight clamps. I can only assume the real benefit here is for high volume / commercial applications. I can see how pneumatic clamps would be faster for repeat operations. For a serious hobbiest, I don't see the value, but I'm also learning a ton, so.....

Dan, we are only a 2 man shop with every job one off. Not speed but they add safety and accuracy. You don't need stuff like this right away. Make a clamp like Keven shows or get the Felder manual clamp. The Fritz and Franz jigs will take you a long way for working with solid work. They are easy to make.

[Jim Becker]

Dan, here's a photo of my slider with the rear miter gage that I also use to support "that end" of a full sheet for ripping.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/shop/IMG_6771_zpsqzr99bdj.jpg

[James Baker SD]

I have the most recent green painted version of the KF700S. I have the old style overhead blade guard, love it and would never trade it for the mount on the riving knife guard. My only complaint is it I wish they had come out with the pivoting version earlier.
Another endorsement here for Mac's clamps. I use them for safety, not for speed. In slave mode though, they are probably quite a bit faster than manually throwing two mechanical clamps at each end of the table for large sheets or long rips.

[David Kumm]

Agree, the clamps are about safety but also make the hobby even more fun. Hobbies are about what makes you relax and in my world, good machines ( not necessarily new ), clamps, and auto blast gates make me feel good. Clamps on a slider also serve to keep the ply tight to the table. Not so huge if you use scoring, but very helpful when making dados as they are hard to keep at the same depth. Mac's are adjustable to slant towards the fence +- to eliminate the tendency of the clamp to move the stock from the fence. Dave

[Jim Becker]

I agree about clamping. Safety is obvious, but the quality of the cut is improved when the material is held fast to the wagon through the cut. "glue line" quality.

I also find that stuff like that helps slow the pace a little and that means less chance for accidents and a lower incidence of, um...mistakes... ;)

[Dan Schmidt]

Thanks guys. I'm a tinkerer at heart so I will have fun playing with the Airtight clamps someday. To start I'll use manual sorts until I get the feel of the beast.
Thanks for the pic Jim. I think Felder offers an optional / shorter miter bar at that end. It sits on top of the short extension I highlighted in my original post. I'll certainly be adding that option. Ugh... options options options.... I'm going to need to cut this off soon..... :-)

[Joe Jensen]

Also go the airtightclamps.com and look at the pneumatic clamps. Felder makes some too but I think the Airtight are more flexible. Not cheap but if you are into a new Felder you are used to that. Dave


These are the clamps I mentioned in your other thread. Highly recommended.

[Jim Becker]

I think Felder offers an optional / shorter miter bar at that end. It sits on top of the short extension I highlighted in my original post. I'll certainly be adding that option. Ugh... options options options.... I'm going to need to cut this off soon..... :-)

"Options" is Felder's middle name... ;) Buy when you must and build when you can. Some of this stuff can get pretty darn expensive to buy.

[Steven Wayne]

In my opinion, yes. It is standard with with all Minimax panel-length sliders, by the way. Not sure about other vendors...

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/erikloza/Mini%20Max%20Combo%20Seminars/012LongRip.jpg

Regarding overhead saw guards and speaking only for my customers, most with 315mm saws don't order that option. It's standard (required) on any saw over 350mm but from a usability standpoint, I don't it necessarily better or faster than the regular plastic guard.

Erik

Erik,

Do you have any more photos or details on this parallel guide setup? It looks like an Incra LS or something very similar..

[David Hawxhurst]

i think its a jointech which is very similar to incra. think jointech went under but you could just as easily use the incra.

[David Zaret]

on my martin i have the martin outrigger - just an arm that hangs off the slider and supports sheets. works fine. certainly helpful when manipulating full sheets, alone.

i'm curious how you guys use the rip fence during sheet break-down operations. i find myself rarely (if ever) ripping with the rip fence, but rather i pull it back and use it as a stop for a measurement, but not to register against for a cut.

i kinda wish some of you experts would put a video camera on your saw during an hour-or-so breakdown operation, just to share technique....

--- dz

[David Hawxhurst]

there are a couple of short videos on the airtight clamp site that show him breaking down some sheet goods. i do it similar to the way he does in the videos. i don't really use my rip fence for much of anything. with the parallel ripping guides and the fritz and franz jig really no need for it. i've heard of some adjusting the rip fence to the same trajectory as the slider so it can be used as a stop. this method how ever would cause binding on the back of the blade if you ever tried using by itself very likely causing kickback. felder has some videos of sliders being used to build a couple of projects out of solid lumber. the techniques would apply to any saw/shaper units.

[Jim Becker]

I also rarely use the rip fence for breaking down sheet goods...or even ripping solid stock that's wider than about 4".

[Erik Loza]

Erik,

Do you have any more photos or details on this parallel guide setup? It looks like an Incra LS or something very similar..


i think its a jointech which is very similar to incra. think jointech went under but you could just as easily use the incra.

Yes, it's the (now defunct) Jointech Clincher but as David said, the Incra LS should be able to do the exact same thing. It is mounted to the OEM steel side table for the slider. Mounting holes were drilled into the steel table to secure it.

Erik

[John Lankers]

Yes, it's the (now defunct) Jointech Clincher but as David said, the Incra LS should be able to do the exact same thing. It is mounted to the OEM steel side table for the slider. Mounting holes were drilled into the steel table to secure it.

Erik

The Incra LS sounds like a heck of an idea, once zeroed to the blade it is the most accurate setup.
Only they are so darn expensive.

[David Kumm]

It's the modified digital stop that get my attention. I'm working on my own versions. Dave

[jim mills]

Had my eye on those too Dave.
Thing about the LS positioner, is that it is only 17". Not sure that would be adequate or not.

[John Lankers]

Had my eye on those too Dave.
Thing about the LS positioner, is that it is only 17". Not sure that would be adequate or not.

The Incra LS is available in 17", 25" and 32".
http://www.incra.com/router_table_fences-ls_positiners.html

[jim mills]

Thanks for the correction. Man those are pricey...

[Erik Loza]

Thanks for the correction. Man those are pricey...

Buy something "Aigner"...

Erik

[Susumu Mori]

I've been always wondering if we can just use two crosscut fences, regular one at the tail of the sliding table and the other with the outrigger. Of course the length of the stock would be limited to the separation of the two crosscut fences, but the crosscut stops could be accurately calibrated...

[David Hawxhurst]

I've been always wondering if we can just use two crosscut fences, regular one at the tail of the sliding table and the other with the outrigger. Of course the length of the stock would be limited to the separation of the two crosscut fences, but the crosscut stops could be accurately calibrated...

it would be possible but thats pretty much what they are doing with the incra ls or some other means of positioning a stop accurately like the digital one David mentioned. Brain Lamb of lamb tool works makes a parallel cutting devices you can use one in combo with the outrigger stop or use two completely independent of the of the outrigger.

[Rod Sheridan]

Buy something "Aigner"...

Erik

LOL.............Good point Erik..................Regards, Rod.

[Brian Lamb]

it would be possible but thats pretty much what they are doing with the incra ls or some other means of positioning a stop accurately like the digital one David mentioned. Brain Lamb of lamb tool works makes a parallel cutting devices you can use one in combo with the outrigger stop or use two completely independent of the of the outrigger.

We do have parallel fences that work very well on the slider. You can use one or two, a little more functionality with two... you can do shorter pieces and set all sorts of angles. I just did an "art piece" where I needed 24 pieces at exactly 15º angles to make a complete circle. Spacing the two parallel fences at exactly 18" apart and doing the trig on the angle to set one fence back further than the other, got me the angle pretty close to dead on.