Some updated shop lighting...

[Jim Becker]

I had a fixture in my prime machining area go kerfluie awhile back and needed to put in a replacement. I'm all about LED lighting these days and was pleasantly surprised to find that Costco was offering a two-fixture LED "shop light" package for $69. (The BORG seems to sell them for $50 PER fixture) So I ordered it to see how it would work out. One nice benefit to buying from Costco is that they pretty much take back anything you're not happy with for pretty much any reason and at any time. (with receipt, of course)

Well...I'm happy and will be ordering more of these things to brighten up my shop. The 4000K temperature and light output is exactly what I like and there's no flicker with instant on regardless of ambient temp. The next set will go over my bench and finishing area...I'll just keep the crusty old T12 fixtures on the perimeters where light is more of a convenience, rather than a necessity.

It's like daylight in this area now!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/shop/IMG_6763_zps53ngmqvs.jpg

The product
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/shop/IMG_6762_zps6wml7h5q.jpg

[Sam Layton]

Jim,

I am glad that you are happy with the lights. I just purchased 24 fixtures for my new shop. I was hoping they would work out. I also have everything LED. For the house I like 3000K. So, for the shop 4000K should be great.

Sam

[Jim Becker]

Yea, I'm really happy with the light from these, Sam. I'm ordering more later today after I'm done making the shop dirty again... :D

[Dan Schmidt]

Excellent! Agree 4000K is the way to go for a shop. The LED lights are really dropping in price. Much more energy efficient too!

[Dick Mahany]

I have converted my home interior to LED and won't look back. Since LEDs are solid state devices, do you think they may have a strobing effect with spinning cutters? I'm having a new home built and am not quite sure what type of lighting to install in the garage/shop, so I'm very interested in this thread. I prefer 2700K in the house, but agree 4000K is perfect for the shop.

[Bill McNiel]

I replaced a couple of T8 4 tube fixtures with the Costco Feit 2 tube 4000K LEDs and am REALLY happy. So pleased that I am seriously thinking of nuking all the remaining T8s now as opposed to waiting until the ballasts or tubes die and replacing them with the LEDs (this is a big beal due to my Scott heritage frugalness).

[Randy Rose]

I had a fixture go kerfluie


Always wondered how to spell that ^
Now I know, Thanks !

[Terry Hatfield]

I'm, adding some led's to my layout as well. No Costco here but Sam's Club as similar lights that have a little more output (4200 lumens). They are $35. I bought one yesterday and installed it over my metalworking area. Just an amazing difference!! I'll be adding 5 more in strategic areas in my shop. Very impressed with the led's!

[David C. Roseman]

+1 for the Feit 2-bulb LED shop lights from Costco that Jim describes. The price keeps getting lower. I paid about $32 a year or two ago, then saw them for $28 per fixture in the local Costco just a couple of weeks ago.

I've also looked at the similar fixtures at the local Sam's Club, but FWIW they have clear, rather than translucent tubes covering the LED diodes. So each diode is distinctly visible, giving a "rope light" look that I thought might be a bit less appealing for a workshop.

[Jim Becker]

I replaced a couple of T8 4 tube fixtures with the Costco Feit 2 tube 4000K LEDs and am REALLY happy. So pleased that I am seriously thinking of nuking all the remaining T8s now as opposed to waiting until the ballasts or tubes die and replacing them with the LEDs (this is a big beal due to my Scott heritage frugalness).

I literally just order four more to cover my bench position as well as the area where I do finishing nearby there. Working today at the J/P and the slider with those new lights overhead was a pleasure!

[John K Jordan]

I just put some like that in my barn where we are redoing the area for tack and other horse things. What a happy difference more light makes - literally makes you feel better!

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I just put some like that in my barn where we are redoing the area for tack and other horse things. What a happy difference more light makes - literally makes you feel better!

JKJ

Good to hear that.

Very interesting that you have so many parallel interests as I do...woodworking, keyboards and...horses...have two, but they are boarded. :) (I also include cooking and photography in my list of expensive avocations. LOL )

[John K Jordan]

(I also include cooking and photography in my list of expensive avocations. LOL )

Yikes, I hope my wife doesn't see this or her expectations for me may increase. She is the best cook in the southeast and I can make a great peanut-butter sandwich.

One thing I love about these forums is the glimpses into the the varied lifestyles and interests! There is more to life than making things!

I somehow lucked into the most wonderful woman on the planet, over 45 years ago!! She is so conservative I have to force her to spend money on herself but for some unfathomable reason she encourages, er, tolerates my hobbies. I'm also a photo nut, since a teenager (anybody want a collection of Nikon film cameras or a Crown Graphic, mint condition?), have some great obsolescent underwater cameras, a Nikonos and some underwater video gear (plus a complete video editing suite, pro video decks anyone?), spent years serious cave diving (all cave diving is serious; dry suit up for grabs, double tanks, etc.), flying private planes, maniac kayaking with trips all over, and a few years souping up dirt bikes. Now that I'm elderly and feeble and all settled down I'm quite content throwing bales of hay, shearing the llamas, driving the tractor around the farm, teaching kindergartners, and playing on the lathes and milling machine. :-)

BTW, this is my latest acquisition: a beautiful 7-year-old buckskin quarter horse, reining trained then left in the pasture with a bunch of other horses for about 5 years. He was "fun" to work back into shape (no one was injured) but I am so blessed with some experienced help - these two both love horses but have no farms of their own. Fortunately, we have barns, fields, round pen, and lots of trails! One girl taught my horse Tiny to ride again after going blind over 10 years ago. Life is so good!

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When I asked my vet what do you do with a blind horse, she said "You hug him a lot." No problem.

Yikes, forgot the time - 20 degrees out and time to feed!

JKJ

[Larry Browning]

I think I am going to wait a few more months in hopes the prices will come down some more. I just looked on Amazon and it looks like the best I can do there is around $50 for one 2 bulb fixture. $35 to $40 would be better. We don't have Costco around here, I will look at Sam's the next time I am there.

[Terry Hatfield]

I think I am going to wait a few more months in hopes the prices will come down some more. I just looked on Amazon and it looks like the best I can do there is around $50 for one 2 bulb fixture. $35 to $40 would be better. We don't have Costco around here, I will look at Sam's the next time I am there.

Morning Larry. I'm quite impressed with the Sam's fixture. They are $35.00. I certainly plan to add more.

[David Utterback]

Following recommendations from creekers, I purchased the single 48" LED tubes from GreenTek in Atlanta. They are very easy to install and cost only $13 each. What an improvement over the T12 and T8 fixtures. I do wish the connectors between tubes was a bit longer than the ones supplied.

[Larry Browning]

Morning Larry. I'm quite impressed with the Sam's fixture. They are $35.00. I certainly plan to add more.


Oh, hey Terry! It's good to see you back in the Creek!
I probably won't make a special trip to Sam's, but we go there about once a month or so to pick a few things. I will definitely be checking those out the next time we go.

[Jay Runde]

They are $10 cheaper per pair in store, $29.99 each at least here in Las Vegas.

[Brian Hood]

Dick,
you have identified an issue the pro's are wrestling with right now, strobing of LED lighting. Bugs some people and not others. In my office lighting lab we have a small desk fan to evaluate strobing. Depends on the LED driver, some do and some don't.
Most dedicated LED fixtures do not strobe. Many (most?) replacement lamps do. I think the Feit's from Costco are bad (I put ~7,000 LED's in a small room of one of the guys that started Costco, but that is a different story, see Turrell sky space for more on that). No Philips lamp I've tested has ever strobed.

Not sure it's an issue with saw blades, don't they look cool under a strobing light? but a client likes to play ping pong and Did Not like seeing the ball coming at him in little jerks.

I am in love with the Philips Warm Glow screw-in A-lamp for the interior of my house. A nice warm light that becomes slightly warmer when dimmed.

Brian

[David C. Roseman]

Brian, are you saying the 4' two-bulb Feit LED fixtures that Costco sells have a strobing issue? I haven't noticed or heard of that. Or are you referring to single LED replacement bulbs to retrofit T12 fixtures (Does Costco sell those?). Or do you mean something else by bad?

[Dick Mahany]

Dick,
you have identified an issue the pro's are wrestling with right now, strobing of LED lighting. Bugs some people and not others. In my office lighting lab we have a small desk fan to evaluate strobing. Depends on the LED driver, some do and some don't.
Most dedicated LED fixtures do not strobe. Many (most?) replacement lamps do. I think the Feit's from Costco are bad (I put ~7,000 LED's in a small room of one of the guys that started Costco, but that is a different story, see Turrell sky space for more on that). No Philips lamp I've tested has ever strobed.

Not sure it's an issue with saw blades, don't they look cool under a strobing light? but a client likes to play ping pong and Did Not like seeing the ball coming at him in little jerks.

I am in love with the Philips Warm Glow screw-in A-lamp for the interior of my house. A nice warm light that becomes slightly warmer when dimmed.

Brian

Brian,
Thanks for the introspective. I'm an optics guy by trade and notice things that don't bother many others. I have seen strobing effects (light in a chopper) with my table saw blades with 60 cycle device lighting. My young son didn't recognize this phenomena and thought (briefly) the table saw blade was stopped when it wasn't. This concerns me greatly as accidents can happen so quickly. My solution was to add a few incandescsants that would counter the effect, but I like the efficiency and brightness of LEDs and want to convert as many fixtures a possible.

[Steve Kinnaird]

I purchased 13 for the LED Lights from SAM's.
Have a a couple hanging while building out the shop. Very happy with them. I will have 12 of them once i get them all hung. they are very bright and I personally don't see a strobe effect from them.
I did create a custom mount for them. Not sure I wanted to trust the plastic clip that comes with them. I will be posting detail PIC's for the mount next week. Waiting for more hardware to come in.
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[Brian Hood]

Sorry, I did not realize Costco was selling a 4' Feit. I was specifically reffering to the FEIT 13.5 watt 850 lumen A-lamp replacement. (BPCEA19/OM800LED to be precise.) Most of the 4' LED products I've tested do not strobe.
I hate it when I add to confusion,

Brian

[David C. Roseman]

Sorry, I did not realize Costco was selling a 4' Feit. I was specifically reffering to the FEIT 13.5 watt 850 lumen A-lamp replacement. (BPCEA19/OM800LED to be precise.) Most of the 4' LED products I've tested do not strobe.
I hate it when I add to confusion,

Brian

Thanks for clarifying. Hmm, I wonder if the "dimmable" feature in that A-lamp style bulb might be contributing to the strobing issue. :confused:

[Jim Becker]

They are $10 cheaper per pair in store, $29.99 each at least here in Las Vegas.
My local store hasn't had them on the shelf, which is why I ordered online. No biggie and shipping is free. Driving to the store is about a gallon of gas, which while a lot less expensive these days, still isn't free. LOL The original price I saw for them was $89 and when I was finally ready to buy, it was $69. I can live with that at this point and so far, I'm very pleased with the light. Nothing I've noticed about strobing or anything like that. The light is more steady than the fluorescents.

[Jim Becker]

I installed four more today; two over the bench and two over the area where I spray finish which also covers the bandsaw. The two older fixtures I removed got relocated to the other end of the shop to fill in some "dead light area" near my storage cabinets and material racks. Wow...what an upgrade to my shop environment!

[Terry Hatfield]

I added 2 more of the Sam's fixtures to my shop today. 1 over my bench and 1 over the table saw out feed bench that I use all the time for multiple things. I'm so impressed with these led's! I'm probably going to add 3 or 4 more in strategic locations. Pretty amazing the difference they make.

[Jim Becker]

Terry, the light output is unbelievable. My shop is almost like a hospital operating room now. LOL (Albeit a dusty one...)

[Bill Space]

I bought Four of the Costco two-tube fixtures several months ago to use in homemade fixtures in our kitchen and living room, replacing older style fixtures with magnetic ballasts. Love them and find no real difference in light output between the LEDs and the old fixtures.

BUT the bad news is that one of the fixtures failed after three months. One of the tubes quit working, just started blinking occasionally, while its mate worked properly. This was a fixture that did not have the pull chain switch as part of it. Before taking it back to Costco, I took a look and found a main printed circuit board at one end of the tubes, and two smaller PCBs at the other ends of the tubes.

So I'm thinking we are more at the mercy of the electronics than the LEDs themselves, as far as long term reliability goes...

Still, I bought more of these fixtures as the price at Costco dropped to under $30 for them locally.

On top of that they have another product, LED tubes without the fixture for $20 per pair, that are supposed to be plug and play into your existing fixtures. I tried these and the first fixture I put them in worked great, and I was totally satisfied. The second fixture I put them in was not a success, as they did not work. I did verify that the tubes were good by testing them in the original fixture where they worked as expected.

Just another data point...:)

Bill

[Terry Hatfield]

Terry, the light output is unbelievable. My shop is almost like a hospital operating room now. LOL (Albeit a dusty one...)

I agree. I'm so impressed with the led's. My shop had lots of light prior. People always comment on how bright it is but now even more so. I love it!

[Bob Falk]

I have 10 of the Costco Feit shop lights in my 22x24 shop and another 10 in my garage, basement, and wood storage area.....work great and more than enough light....I paid $35 each but have seen them as low as $28 since then.

[Ed Gibbons]

This light goes for 69 bucks. Some have posted much lower prices. Is this the same light as the cheaper ones? I think this is what Jim purchased.


http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html (http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html)

[Paul Lawrence]

Ed, that's a "2-pack" meaning there are two complete light assemblies. About $35 each.

[Jebediah Eckert]

This light goes for 69 bucks. Some have posted much lower prices. Is this the same light as the cheaper ones? I think this is what Jim purchased.


http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html (http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html)

I just bought 2 of those in-store for $29.99 each. They are nice because they are fully together and plug in ready. I have cheap big box 4 ft, 2 bulb, T8 fixtures in my shop. I bought the better GE "daylight" bulbs (4K I think). I put the LED's above my bench and tablesaw at the same height as the T8's. I do have to say I think the T8s were brighter in my setup and switched them back. However, they are a big improvement over the run of the mill T8 bulbs. I ended up using one at a different angle to my bench and it works nice to erase some shadowing. The other one I just swapped and put it over the outfeed table. My shop is in the basement with grey cement walls and 9' ceilings, maybe that has something to do with it. I'm going to give it more time to get used to because I would love to go LED, those T8 bulbs constantly go out. Maybe it's the cheap fixtures but every few days there is at least one bulb the needs to be twisted or adjusted to get it working again. The LEDs being more energy efficient is also a big plus.

[Greg R Bradley]

It's not a question of one technology being better than the other but choosing the best light for your use. Also, cheap fixtures are going to have problems in any technology. Bulbs that need to be adjusted in a T8 fixture sound like real junk.

If you are installing lights in low voltage DC system like a flashlight, car, boat, etc. then LED is the clear winner for efficiency. If you installing lights in a shop good T8, T5, and LED fixtures are all very similar in efficiency.

LED manufacturers are mostly new and are using a variety of marketing claims to sell their products. They will quote Lumens per Watt figures for the bare LED instead of the entire fixture. They are mostly using the L70 standard to rate their fixtures so at rated life they have lost 30% of their light, where florescent lamps are generally rated at 5% light loss. Of course the high end LED fixtures are also being rated at 5% light loss or average light output over their life - but they aren't $30.

I put 167 I-Beam 6 bulb T8 fixtures into a business that operated 24x7. Sylvania Octron 800XP XL lamps, which are rated at 84,000 hours. I believe the first ones used were an earlier bulb in the same series. We replaced them at 4 years of 24x7 use, gradually going to 6 year intervals, which is 52,500 hours. Most bulbs could only be changed every 6 months when production stopped for 4 days so we were being conservative and wanted to replace before any failures.

A big question at this point is how long each technology lasts in on/off situations. Most lights are rated when turned on and left on for 3 hours and the same for 12 hours. When you run a light for short periods do LED lights do better than florescents?

You can find a very few decent lights at BORGs but you will have to work at it. You won't find any decent T5 or T8 florescent bulbs.

[Jim Becker]

This light goes for 69 bucks. Some have posted much lower prices. Is this the same light as the cheaper ones? I think this is what Jim purchased.


http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html (http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html)

Yes, these are what I've used. I've put in a total of six of them in the key areas of my shop and the light is wonderful. Considering the home centers get $50 and more for just one similar fixture, I feel these are a good deal. And if they do fail, Costco pretty much takes anything back for customer satisfaction reasons.

[Barry Richardson]

Glad I found this thread, I've been considering the LEDs at Costco, and now that I see some good feedback, think I'm going to get em....

[Frank Pratt]

While I agree with most of what's said below, the information on lamp life is not entirely accurate. Fluorescent lamp life is rated as the number of hours at which 50% of the lamps have failed, as in, ceased to produce light. LED lamps are most commonly rated as the number of hours at which point they are producing 70% of original light output.

Fluorescent lamps have 2 light output ratings; initial lumens & mean lumens. Mean lumens is the average light output over the life of the lamp. The mean lumen rating for fluorescents typically ranges from about 77% to 85% of initial lumens. So a fluorescent lamp near the end of it's life may actually be putting out quite a bit less than an LED near the end of it's rated life, given comparable initial lumen ratings.

The LD70 rating is used because a drop in illumination to 70% of the initial level is the point at which the average person will notice that "hey, it's getting kinda dim in here".

With regards to the lamp output vs whole fixture output, this is where LED fixtures really shine (pun not intended). Conventional light sources (fluorescent, HID, incandescent) loose a lot of light in the optics (reflectors, lenses). LED light sources only emit light from the front of the source & it is a small source. The result is there is not a lot of light manipulation require & most of the light produces actually gets out of the fixture.

All that being said, the LED fixtures sold in Walmart, Sam's, Costco, etc really are a bunch of junk. They look great at first, but the color rendering is horrible & you can bet that 20,000 hours down the road they are going to be at a fraction of their initial output, if they're working at all.

Sorry for the rant.

Edit: I'm going to temper my comments a bit. The cheap LED fixtures may be a good choice for a hobby shop where lamp life isn't much of a concern or where accurate color is not an issue. Just go into it with your eyes open.


It's not a question of one technology being better than the other but choosing the best light for your use. Also, cheap fixtures are going to have problems in any technology. Bulbs that need to be adjusted in a T8 fixture sound like real junk.

If you are installing lights in low voltage DC system like a flashlight, car, boat, etc. then LED is the clear winner for efficiency. If you installing lights in a shop good T8, T5, and LED fixtures are all very similar in efficiency.

LED manufacturers are mostly new and are using a variety of marketing claims to sell their products. They will quote Lumens per Watt figures for the bare LED instead of the entire fixture. They are mostly using the L70 standard to rate their fixtures so at rated life they have lost 30% of their light, where florescent lamps are generally rated at 5% light loss. Of course the high end LED fixtures are also being rated at 5% light loss or average light output over their life - but they aren't $30.

I put 167 I-Beam 6 bulb T8 fixtures into a business that operated 24x7. Sylvania Octron 800XP XL lamps, which are rated at 84,000 hours. I believe the first ones used were an earlier bulb in the same series. We replaced them at 4 years of 24x7 use, gradually going to 6 year intervals, which is 52,500 hours. Most bulbs could only be changed every 6 months when production stopped for 4 days so we were being conservative and wanted to replace before any failures.

A big question at this point is how long each technology lasts in on/off situations. Most lights are rated when turned on and left on for 3 hours and the same for 12 hours. When you run a light for short periods do LED lights do better than florescents?

You can find a very few decent lights at BORGs but you will have to work at it. You won't find any decent T5 or T8 florescent bulbs.

[Greg R Bradley]

......
Sorry for the rant.
Doesn't sound like a rant at all.
The only thing I'm questioning is that the bulb spec sheets on the bulbs I'm using show mean lumens is 95% of Initial, measured at 40% of expected life. This matches my experience as well in that business. QA tested light level in the production area weekly. It was down 10-11% at 52,500 hours and we had some bulbs go out but not real surprising with 988 bulbs. My recommendation was change them at 4 years, 5 might be OK. New owners that insisted on 6 years made a continuation of other changes in cost savings.

I'm all for a $29 LED when you buy one and hang it over a bench for extra light and turn it on for a few hours a few times a week.

I've been running I-Beam High Bay 6 lamp T8, 4 lamp T5HO, and LED in my home shop as a test. Good fixtures, 85% downlight on the first, 100% downlight on the LED and T5HO. All match light output specs as tested with a light meter. All match specs as tested with a current meter. Almost identical lumens per watt. IF I needed them at 20' instead of 11', the LED might make sense but not until they come down in price a lot more. At 11', the extra size and slight uplight under the T8 make shadows nicer and are better to work under even if the light meter shows 8% less brightness.

Seriously considering setting up the LED with motion detector option so it goes on when I just walk in and grab something. I'm thinking it will last better under that use.

[Frank Pratt]

It was down 10-11% at 52,500 hours

Those are some great lamps. I was referring to more commonly used T8 & T5 lamps. We've installed lots of great LED lighting & I love it, but I agree that for lots of good quality light in an easy to maintain location, fluorescents are still the best value.

You can get Philips F32T8/TL950 lamp which is 5000K color temp & CRI of 98, which is outstanding.

[Jim Becker]

Frank, you do make some good points, but as you sorta also note, for those of us who are hobbyists, the number of hours of actual use isn't significant as compared to even a portion of the rated life of the LED fixture. In general of course. There will always be some unit that will fail early...it's the nature of electronics...but that's also true for ballasts and tubes for fluorescent fixtures. It will always be a "bet" in that respect. Given that the current crop of LED shop light fixtures have dropped in price to something similar to what one might pay for a decent fluorescent equivalent...and they are instant on even in the cold...they are very worthy of consideration, IMHO. I might change my mind if these Feit lamps die early and often, but again, Costco will refund my money if that happens. Cheerfully even. (Except for this one person who works their returns who has a permanent frown anyway... :D )

[Frank Pratt]

Jim, you are absolutely correct. I was just especially cranky when I wrote those comments. At work I have to deal with pricing LED installations where quality light is critical & having customers choke on the price & point out how cheap LEDs are on ebay.

[Frank Hagan]

Jim, you are absolutely correct. I was just especially cranky when I wrote those comments. At work I have to deal with pricing LED installations where quality light is critical & having customers choke on the price & point out how cheap LEDs are on ebay.

Since you have some experience with these, have you noted any problems with Wifi interference with the less expensive LEDs? I had read a couple of complaints about Costco LEDs causing interference, and I was concerned when I replaced my 3' fluorescent tubes in our bathroom with some from Hyperikon LEDs from Amazon at about $12 each (I think that was the brand name).

We have replaced most of our regular bulbs with LED but I haven't started on the shop yet.

[Frank Pratt]

I've not had much direct experience with cheap LED fixtures, just heard others tell of RF interference & strobing issues with some.

[Rob Lee CT]

You can find a very few decent lights at BORGs but you will have to work at it. You won't find any decent T5 or T8 florescent bulbs.
Where does one buy better T5 and T8 bulbs than the 10 or 12 packs at HD and Lowes? And how do we find the correct specs to know whether we're buying the right bulbs?

[Joe Jensen]

I'm big on lot's of light, in my 22 by 32 shop I have 36 four foot T8 bulbs. I am also pretty passionate about accurate color rendering especially in the shop. Color temp is one factor but color linearity is even more important. Your eyes adapt to color temp but color linearity will trick you. Color Rendering Index is a measure that is required by law on bulbs. I buy high CRI bulbs but they still aren't perfect. Here is a ling to an article that explains why.

http://yujiintl.com/high-cri-led-lighting/?gclid=CjwKEAiA9JW2BRDxtaq2ruDg22oSJACgtTxcxwAKUWX Lk0GKXmi5IhCN9plRNML2fed7UzTLpiZmKhoCETXw_wcB

[Greg R Bradley]

Where does one buy better T5 and T8 bulbs than the 10 or 12 packs at HD and Lowes? And how do we find the correct specs to know whether we're buying the right bulbs?
The florescent light manufacturers are really good about the published information. Heres a link to Sylvania overview:
http://www.sylvania.com/en-us/products/fluorescent/Pages/OCTRON-T8-Lamps.aspx
If you click on "Product Specifications" below each bulb type it will give you a PDF of that entire product.
The 800 XP XL is their super long life, which sacrifices a bit of efficiency to last for 10 years of 24x7 use.
The 800 XPS is the high efficiency long life. 21681 is the 97 lumen per watt 40,000 hours bulbs in 4100K.
The 800 XV is power saver version, less wattage but less light too.

If you find it hard to get a decent price at a local light supplier, Amazon can be very useful. I recently bought 30 21681 from Amazon for $100 including shipping. I see they are now showing them at $98 + $11 shipping for me across the country: http://www.amazon.com/SYL-FO32-841-XPS-ECO/dp/B007HM2T7Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1455892759&sr=8-1&keywords=sylvania+21681

eLightbulbs has them at about $4.50 each but then shipping is on top of that. Probably still reasonable as long as you were buying several at a time.

I haven't seen any florescents with even rare earth phosphors in a while in Lowes or HD. They did have them in small quantities 10 years ago. But they are buying something like Sylvania 21681 for their own use in their own buildings......

[Art Mann]

I wish Sam's or Costco would distribute economical LED fixtures that were designed for flush mount. I don't want to have outlets, extension cords or lots of esxposed wiring on the ceiling of my shop. It is easy to buy T-8 fixtures that are flush mount.

[Jim Becker]

I installed the Feit LED replacement lamps this weekend in most of my remaining T12 fixtures and they worked perfectly. While at just under $20 a tube they are not as low cost as the direct-wire versions, they greatly simplified my install since the fixtures and ballasts were just fine. They work in both T8 and T12 fixtures, too. They appear to essentially be the same LED assemblies used in the full fixtures I already installed. The light in my shop is now outstanding...and at the 4100K temp I like.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/a-j-adopt/IMG_7134_zpsyah7cnpi.jpg