A question about drawer joints

[rudy de haas]

I need to make a bunch of drawers for the vanity - the thinnest pair will have a sidewall depth of about 3" - the stock will end up about
1/2" thick; santos mahogany on the faces, white birch sides and back, baltic birch bottoms.

Dove tail joints scare me a bit, plus I don't have a plunge router.. and, just now, got a sale flyer from busybeetools offering, among things, a bargain on a "lock mitre shaper cutter" for 3/4" spindles - which I do have.

My Blandford book (the master handbook of woodworking techniques) doesn't mention this joint while the Hylton and Matlack book on working with routers barely mentions it.

Is this joint strong enough, with the wood and sizes I'm using, for all four corners on light duty vanity drawers?

[John TenEyck]

Yeah, you can use a lock miter for drawer boxes, but if you have a table saw and dado set, or router table and straight cutting bit already you can easily and quickly make finger jointed drawer boxes w/o spending a penny. Finger joints are incredibly strong and I like how they look though some don't.

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John

[George Bokros]

You can use a lock dado joint too. Basically a dado in the side and a rabbet in the front and they lock together and are very strong. No tooling needed.

[Jamie Buxton]

..Dove tail joints scare me a bit, plus I don't have a plunge router..

You don't need a plunge router to make router-cut dovetails. A fixed-base router will do the job just as well.

[David Eisenhauer]

The lock dado George describes is a very good drawer joint, easy to set up (as compared to the other equally as-strong joints) and does not require special tooling or equipment other than a dado set. I too like the look of box joints, but I believe they are slightly more involved to set up, but that is an opinion only. When I was building kitchen cabinetry commercially in my small shop, I would offer the lock dado joinery for drawers instead of (machined) dovetails when the prospective client was looking to save on cost. I would demonstrate that the drawer strength was not compromised at all if the higher-end looking dovetails were not used.

[mreza Salav]

I have done lock dado but I disagree it is as strong as finger joint or dovetail (it is weaker than all above because there is no face-to-face glue surface ever, every side of the joint has an end-grain face).
Yes, you can use lock miter and I say it is strong enough for a drawer. Just be aware that each lock miter bit/cutter works for a certain range of stock thickness.

Edit: I have used lock miter only along the grain (where the boards are joint along the grain not like a drawer). For a drawer, large portion of the joint is end-grain, so I agree that it will be more like a lock dado in terms of strength.

[Lee Schierer]

You don't need a plunge router to make router-cut dovetails. A fixed-base router will do the job just as well.

That's what I use with a Rockler dovetail jig.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I just made a bunch of pull-out shelves using a Whiteside locking drawer glue joint router bit (link (http://www.amazon.com/Whiteside-Router-Bits-3347-Diameter/dp/B000K2EFNG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1452309479&sr=8-1&keywords=locking+drawer+glue+joint)). I decided to use this because making dovetail or finger joints would have been too time consuming for 50+ drawers. The joint has a lot of glue surfaces. I haven't performed any comparison test against other types of joinery, but the drawers are plenty strong assembled. Only time will tell, but I feel that these drawers will last quite a long time. They are also installed in the kitchen.

[David Eisenhauer]

Drawers (for indoor use, finished all surfaces) I made in the mid 1980's using lock dado or rabbet dado joinery are still working just fine with no repairs or other adjustments required. I believe through dovetails and box joints are stronger, but how strong do we need kitchen cabinet drawers? I prefer dovetails just because I can do them, but still contend the rabbet dado is sufficient for long term use.

[John Lankers]

I'm not sure that cutter would work on 1/2" stock, the description says it's cutting length is 1 1/4".
I personally would prefer either box joints or dovetails.

[Dave Zellers]

You can do a nice lock dado with just a table saw if you want.
But I always use a couple brads on the side.
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[Chris Kiely]

Drawer boxes don't need to be as strong as they used to - depending on hardware, drawer size, and so on. When I was making commercial millwork years ago we'd staple the drawer together, and I still see those boxes in use today, almost 20 years later withstanding heavy commercial use.
Now I'm not advocating you to staple your drawer boxes together, I'm just saying that you don't need to use the strongest joint out there. My 2c.

[Robert Engel]

Lock dado with pins.

[Dave Arnett]

Drawer boxes don't need to be as strong as they used to - depending on hardware, drawer size, and so on. When I was making commercial millwork years ago we'd staple the drawer together, and I still see those boxes in use today, almost 20 years later withstanding heavy commercial use.
Now I'm not advocating you to staple your drawer boxes together, I'm just saying that you don't need to use the strongest joint out there. My 2c.

+1

I've made more drawers than I can count. More ways than I can count.

I've settled on....sliding dovetails for the fronts, and simple dados for the backs. The bottoms get glued in. NEVER had one come back on me.

[rudy de haas]

Right, i should have said something like "I don't have the right router". Right now I only have a small hand held that doesn't have the power needed.

[rudy de haas]

Thanks - I had to look that up, of course, but that's probably do-able. Give me a reason to buy a dado set at least.

[rudy de haas]

umm, looks a lot like the lock mitre joint.

[rudy de haas]

I missed that - thanks.

[BOB OLINGER]

Not suggesting this is the best or only, but I just finished some drawer boxes using the Rockwell dove tail jig for the first time. I did half blind dove tails for the front joints and simple dados for the rear joints. Once you get the jig set up, it's a piece of cake, goes fast. Bottom line - DON'T be scared or shy away from the dove tail jig.

[rudy de haas]

I'm not sure that cutter would work on 1/2" stock, the description says it's cutting length is 1 1/4".
I personally would prefer either box joints or dovetails.

Thanks - I did not notice that. It turns out, however, that I don't know how to translate cut length to board thickness. If the cut length refers
to the length of the diagonal you'd get from a straight line running from the top to the bottom, 1.25" means that the board thickness is
about 0.9" at max. If the length is measured along the carbide, however, the straight line diagonal will be closer to about 0.75" - meaning
a max board thickness of about 0.6. Which is it?

[Doug Hepler]

Rudy,

You have already gotten lots of very useful advice. I'm chiming in late because I find this an interesting question. It is interesting because the answer depends on so many factors that only you would know. Wearing my "teacher" hat I would come back to you with questions like: in addition to making drawers, what are your other objectives?
(1) Are you in a hurry? Use a lock dado (aka lock rabbet). It will require the fewest new gadgets and the shortest setup.
(2) Do you want to learn a new technique? Box joints are probably the most versatile joint. You can cut them by hand. Lee Valley sells a saw guide that makes it easier to cut well-fitting box joints. You will want a dado stack and a jig to make them on boxes of greater depth. The jig is, to me, a classic example of a WW project that looks dead simple but is devilishly difficult to get right. It will take time to make one.
The drawer lock jig you mentioned requires a router table. They require some specialized push shoes for safe and accurate use. They can take many tries to set up but once you get them dialed in you can make the joints quite efficiently. Lee Valley had great instructions on-line for how to use this bit.
A lock miter joint is stronger that a drawer lock but is a real PITA to set up. Also, the mating boards have to be the same thickness.
(3) Do you want fancy? Dovetails, through or half-blind. Again, Lee Valley sells guides, etc that makes cutting DT by hand a lot easier. If you cut them by hand you can make them any size you want. I have made drawers with only one or two hand cut DT on the front corners. You can get a Porter Cable DT jig for a few hundred dollars. It does not require a plunge router. You can also get templates for box joints and miniature DT and miniature box joints.
(4) Do you want to be adventurous? If you are making overlay drawer fronts, consider attaching the sides with sliding dovetails.

These are my "usual suspects". Also, you can mix and match, e.g. DT on the front and lock rabbet on the back.

There are more, but I hope this is useful to you.

Doug

[John Lankers]

Thanks - I did not notice that. It turns out, however, that I don't know how to translate cut length to board thickness. If the cut length refers
to the length of the diagonal you'd get from a straight line running from the top to the bottom, 1.25" means that the board thickness is
about 0.9" at max. If the length is measured along the carbide, however, the straight line diagonal will be closer to about 0.75" - meaning
a max board thickness of about 0.6. Which is it?

I have no idea, it doesn't say neither in the BB catalog nor on the website, but 1/2" material would be borderline at best. My gut tells me it won't work.
If you are going for "show" then a woodworker would appreciate dovetail joints and a non woodworker would probably find box joints more appealing.If speed and ease of setup is your priority then do the locking rabbet joint, they can be cut even without a dado set.

[Jerry Miner]

Right, i should have said something like "I don't have the right router". Right now I only have a small hand held that doesn't have the power needed.

If your router "doesn't have the power needed" to cut dovetails or box joints, then it doesn't have the power to cut lock miters either. But I'll bet it can handle either.


umm, looks a lot like the lock mitre joint.

Yes, lock miter and drawer lock are very similar. I've never done it, but I think it is feasible to use a lock miter for a drawer joint. I think you should try it and see. Looks quite do-able to me.

BTW-- "cut length" is typically measured vertically--parallel to the shank-- and identifies the maximum size stock that can be cut.

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[Jim Dwight]

I'm working on a bench with drawers for my shop right now. I built 8 feet of it awhile ago and am finishing up another 4 foot portion. The 8 foot part has a dozen or more drawers. I recycled 3 that are dovetailed from a different table saw setup I used to have and built the others. For time reasons, I just pocket screwed them together. They work fine but, of course, don't look so nice. I'm pretty sure I know a guy who does this for kitchens, however. I've also built lots of drawers that were just glued and nailed. With a pneumatic or cordless nailer this is very fast and with modern glues, the drawers are strong.

I like the look of dovetails, however, and they don't really take that much more time. So I plan to dovetail at least the smaller drawers for the 4 foot extension of my bench. I set my Harbor Freight jig and did a little drawer for my flip top table recently and it went well. I use a PC 690 with a fixed base. I wouldn't want to use my plunge base for dovetails, my hands would be too high. The bit you use has a 1/4 shank so you obviously don't need a real powerful router (a 1/4 shank won't transmit much power).