Beginner with Face Shield Question

[Clay Fails]

I'm just getting started in turning, and picked up a full face shield for starters. I don't recall the brand. It seems to work fine, and I can wear a face mask under it if I want.

So here is my question: how many turners use a powered respirator/face shield like the Trend unit? Are these worth the significant price, or can you achieve almost as much protection with a basic flip up shield and good dust mask? The powered units seem like a lot of rigamarole if you are just making chips. Maybe long term, serious sanding would be another matter.

thanks,
Clay

[Prashun Patel]

I have a basic face shield and a 3m half mask. I like it fine. In fact, there are times I wish to work on delicate items without a face shield, so the decoupling ability is nice.

[Brian Kent]

As usual, I agree with Prashun 100$. That's what I use too.

[Roger Chandler]

The powered air respirators are only worth it, if you care about not getting lung cancer and continuous sinus infections, and pneumonia from all the contaminants in wood, like mold spores, microbes, fungi,etc. Otherwise, you can just do without them, and if you turn much, stay sick most of the time and have a short life because you did not protect your lungs, etc.

I do use the Trend Airshield Pro, religiously when I turn, with an overhead air cleaner running also, and when sanding, I also have my dust collector hose positioned where I can collect most of the sanding dust into the collector.

I almost died in 2006 with respiratory problems, a month in the hospital and some of that in intensive care..........I decided a powered air respirator was a small price to pay for my continued health, and being able to continue to do one of the things that I love to do....woodworking/turning.

I hope my perspective helps a bit! ;)

[Matt Schrum]

I have a basic face shield and a 3m half mask. I like it fine. In fact, there are times I wish to work on delicate items without a face shield, so the decoupling ability is nice.

I have the same set up as above. I have a 3M half mask (search for 3M 7502 on Amazon) with 3M P100/2091 filters. I generally wear the respirator when I am sanding or if the wood is dry and I'm making some dust. For roughing out wet logs (unless the species of wood has a strong odor to it) I generally have only the face shield on. The mask fits under my face shield with some clearance to spare and also works great when I am doing non-turning activities like painting, sanding, etc.

[Mike Goetzke]

I'm a relatively new turner and I purchased an Airshield Pro early on. I'm very used to it and feel lost w/o it like not having a splitter/blade guard on my TS. Only issue with it is when my wife sees me with it on. I wear it even when rough turning and am surprise in the amount of dust on the filters.

Mike

[Dale Bonertz]

Don't worry about the fear some want to use about needing a air respirator. A 3m or MSA respirator with the correct filters are every bit as good as an air respirator and in most cases more comfortable. Combined with a good face shield like Bionic and for well under $100 you are set for a very long time and you don't have batteries to worry about. Remember that for many HAZMAT operations like for asbestos or lead or concrete grinding and etc. they use respirators not air respirators. In my case when I owned a Trend air shield which I never used because I have neck problems and it really hurt me. It looked good hanging on the wall but did little for protecting my lungs . It wasn't until I was fitted for a regular respirator and purchased P100 filters did I find a real solution for my lungs.

[Brice Rogers]

I was turning some aromatic wood like cedar and was wearing a face mask. It was a 3M - N95 with a purge valve (which I consider important). When I was turning, I did NOT smell the cedar. But, when I was done and took off the mask, I was amazed at how strong the odor was. I never dreamed that the smelling sensation was related to breathing in such large particles and that the dust mast could keep out those odors.

[Justin Stephen]

Same story with me. I wear a 3M 7502 half-mask with P100 filters whenever I am sanding or turning anything that generates a lot of dust and always have my dust collection hood running right next to my piece when I am turning regardless.

[Dick Mahany]

I can relate to most every scenario here. I had a 3M 5000 series respirator that I used when painting my vehicles....it had multiple filters to filter iso-cyanates and other nasty elements, so I figured that using that along with a full face shield would be sufficient. It was too cumbersome, (for me) and I didn't like the straps, so I switched to the Trend Pro face shield. The Trend is fantastic and now the only one I use. It doesn't protect against noxious fumes, but has numerous benefits......Comfortable, filters fine dust, allows a cool breeze over face when turning in hot environments, no fogging of my glasses inside shield, feels very secure for full face shielding, easily installed and removed, makes it really easy to scare my pets when coming back into the house from the shop, and more.

The one big negative with the Trend is that if you are applying cyanoacryliate finishes while turning pens, it WILL suck those fumes into the face shield faster than you can react. This will cause sudden, spasmatic dancing and flailing of the arms while trying to quickly remove the helmet...I know this to be true ;)

I have respiratory sensitivities, and have not had a single issue since going with the Trend. I sold my 3M to a person who needed primary chemical filtering and haven't looked back

[Len Mullin]

I own and use both types of respirators, it depends all depends on what type of woodwork I'm doing. If it is going to be a real dusty situation, I'll wear the chemical type, if not, I'll wear the Trend. I've worn the chemical type for years working in heavy construction, so, it doesn't bother me to wear one now. The Trend unit that I own is an original Trend, I like it and I don't find it to be very heavy. It was a used unit, that I bought from a member of another site I'm a member on also. It works well, and I wish I had gotten it sooner.
Len

[john snowdon]

Like Roger and Dave, I use a Trend Pro face shield every time I turn. After a series of bad sinus infections it was either get better protection or a new hobby. While it did take some getting used to, I do not have a bad neck so I find the Trend comfortable, convenient and my glasses never fog. The battery life is sufficient that I rarely need to change in the middle of a session. I think I routinely get 4-4.5 hours out of a charged battery . I just make sure I plug it in when I walk out...In fact, it is charging right now so I can finish a bowl in the morning. My sensitivity is such that I have to vacuum clean the whole shop after most lathe sessions. Even with a Jet ceiling mount shop air cleaner and an Oneida 3HP dust collector set up right next to the lathe, it's amazing how much dust settles over everything when I turn a dry piece of wood. I cannot imagine getting all of that in my lungs if I didn't use protection.

[Dale Gillaspy]

There are pros and cons to each type, depending on what you are doing and a host of other factors. The only thing that I would add to the conversation is that wearing a half mask, N95 or better type of respirator only works if it is worn correctly. If you read the insert, they only work properly when not impeded by facial hair, worn with both straps adjusted correctly, are fit tested for the right size, and either disposed of or the filters changed as needed. In a professional setting, you must be medically cleared by a physician because they do have the ability to compromise lung function by restricting air movement.

[Bill Boehme]

Don't worry about the fear some want to use about needing a air respirator. A 3m or MSA respirator with the correct filters are every bit as good as an air respirator and in most cases more comfortable. Combined with a good face shield like Bionic and for well under $100 you are set for a very long time and you don't have batteries to worry about. Remember that for many HAZMAT operations like for asbestos or lead or concrete grinding and etc. they use respirators not air respirators. In my case when I owned a Trend air shield which I never used because I have neck problems and it really hurt me. It looked good hanging on the wall but did little for protecting my lungs . It wasn't until I was fitted for a regular respirator and purchased P100 filters did I find a real solution for my lungs.

I don't understand the distinction that you are making between respirator and air respirator.

I do agree that the Trend Airshield is a pain in the neck because it is top heavy and I don't otherwise have neck problems.

I agree with all of the comments that respiratory protection is vital. It wasn't very many years ago that mentioning wearing any kind of respiratory protection drew a lot of criticism as being not only unnecessary, but even unsafe because air leaking around dust masks causes glasses to fog or face shields to fog. For that matter, bringing up the subject of wearing a face shield also drew criticism as being unnecessary.

[Geoff Whaling]

Clay,

I have two powered air respirator units both are the earlier Trend / Purelite design. The weight issues that others speak off have been addressed by removing the battery packs from the unit and installing a spiral power lead from the unit to a custom battery pack that I place in a sleeve pocket. This also gives extended running time, and faster charging time over the very expensive original battery / charger.

A basic flip up shield????

I also use a "high impact" rated face shield and safety spectacles for some tasks as they offer better protection for the hazard level. When I'm not wearing the Purelite and dust is a hazard I like to use P100 disposable filters which despite popular opinion do meet the standards requirements IF fitted in accordance with recommendations, however if you wear a beard they will not seal correctly.

If you don't recall the brand of the "face shield" it is quite likely that you may be unaware of the impact rating of the unit and if it complies with the US Z87.1 standard for eye protection. Without getting into too much detail - face shields and other eye protection is either rated as "non-impact", or "impact" rated under the Z87.1 standard. For wood turning and the types of hazards typically experienced, face shields, goggles, and safety glasses MUST be impact rated and carry the Z87+ stamp on the units. If yours doesn't meet the Z87+ standard please do yourself a favor & discard it and purchase one rated to Z87+. In other parts of the world the testing standards and ratings are slightly different, here in Australia we have "high" & "extra high" impact ratings.

Not all Z87+ face shields are equal, even though they meet the minimum testing standard to achieve the rating compliance. The types of potential impacts that turners may experience are very likely to exceed the testing standards impact energy, i.e. the drop ball & ball bearing at velocity tests. The shield and harness component can perform quite differently in an impact situation - curved acetate shields tend to deform into the turners face partially absorbing the impact energy, particularly those with out a frame surrounding the whole face shield. The amount of deformation depends upon design and the impact energy. Formed polycarbonate shields are more rigid, less likely to deform, and will transmit more energy to the harness and will distribute the impact energy plus they tend to deflect the flying object further reducing the impact energy experienced by the turner. The harness component and the brow guard component of a face shield are also very important as they help to distribute impact energy and offer protection to the forehead and in some instances most of the head from frontal and off to the side impacts. The height/depth of a face shield is also relevant - does it offer chin & neck protection as well? Above all they must be comfortable to wear for extended periods.

Personal protection, eye, hearing and lung protection, should be appropriate to the level of the hazard, the potential severity of outcomes, likely frequency of events, and so should your turning techniques be tailored to avoid high risk turning. The most likely injury and the most common to occur is minor to medium severity eye injuries; the most hazardous a high energy (mass x speed) flying object direct impact to the head. Of course there is the ever present dust hazards with short & long term injury potential.

If you are only turning small spindle work, pens, key rings etc then a pair of safety spectacles is fine. Move up to larger spindle and small bowls, roughing out etc then a face shield plus safety spectacles become MUST wear items. Start turning punky large bowls & HF's - well sound turning techniques and good risk management become a must because a face shield and safety spectacles will only provide protection from the smaller flying objects. High mass, high velocity flying objects do knock turners off their feet and have killed or inflicted very severe life threatening injuries to turners in recent years. Please visit Lynne Yamaguchi's blog - http://lynneyamaguchi.com/ or have a read of http://lynneyamaguchi.com/Yamaguchi_SafetyMatters.pdf

Unfortunately many turners experience quite dangerous near misses or are injured through inexperience or "taking chances" with dodgy wood. Risk is OK if you understand the hazards and potential outcomes, but until you learn how to manage risk and develop your turning skills please be conservative with your blank & project selection and keep lathe speeds down - to steal a road safety slogan - speed kills!

[Rich Aldrich]

To start, I had a regular face shield and used a cartridge respirator. Once I had the cash set aside, I bought the Trend Air Pro. This one doesn't have the approval for fine dust here in the US, but it meets the European standard. All it means is that they didn't have it tested by the US. It is basically the same standard and it meets the standard.

Some of the guys use the 3M Airstream at about double the price of the Trend. This one is tested with the US approval and it filters out organics which the trend does not. It is good to use when you do finish work instead of using the respirator. I just use my respirator when I finish pens and such.

[Clay Fails]

Thanks to all for the input. I should have clarified at the start what I'm using now: It's a Uvex/Honeywell S9500 headgear with the Uvex S9555 polycarbonate shield. The shield is Aus/NZ rated 1337.1; I'm not sure if this standard can be directly compared to ANSI Z787.1.

My dust mask is the Dust Bee Gone "nuisance" mask.

[Dale Bonertz]

Not to tough to figure out Bill. A respirator is just that or cartridge type. An air respirator is the powered style which forces air through a filter, needs batteries or power.. Hope that clears it up for you.

Point is to the original poster is you can get very good respirators that don't break the bank and are comfortable. If you want to afford a more costly option there is nothing wrong with that and they work great. I just want to be clear that there are cheaper options for folks who can't or don't want to spend bigger money. I would rather see all turners use respirators than say they will use protection when they can afford one. Everyone can afford one as long as they don't believe you have to go with a 3m or Trend powered air respirator to achieve protection.

[Michael Mills]

My dust mask is the Dust Bee Gone "nuisance" mask.

If it is this one I would consider changing. It list no efficiency rating listed (such as an N95 or N100 are 95% or 100% efficient).
It does list the micron size at 3.0 or ten times the "normal" micron size rating of 0.3
http://www.timberlywoodturning.co.nz/products/Dust-Bee-Gone-Nuisance-Dust-Mask-.html


I use the 3M mask rated at N100, they also make a N95 for about 1/4 the price. They state they can be used for up to 160 hours but I normally trash mine after about 30 hours (30 uses) or about 25 cents per use for the N100; the N95 may be about 10 cents per use.

[Bill Boehme]

Not to tough to figure out Bill. A respirator is just that or cartridge type. An air respirator is the powered style which forces air through a filter, needs batteries or power.. Hope that clears it up for you.

Point is to the original poster is you can get very good respirators that don't break the bank and are comfortable. If you want to afford a more costly option there is nothing wrong with that and they work great. I just want to be clear that there are cheaper options for folks who can't or don't want to spend bigger money. I would rather see all turners use respirators than say they will use protection when they can afford one. Everyone can afford one as long as they don't believe you have to go with a 3m or Trendpowered air respirator to achieve protection.

I missed your mention of batteries previously. I have one of the cartridge type respirators that I think was made for chemical fume protection. It has a rubber mask and isn't comfortable for extended wearing. I think that the N95 and N100 masks are great. The 3M N100 masks are really comfortable. Unfortunately, I cheaped out and bought a box of the N95 masks recently. They're OK, but I wish that I would have purchased the more expensive (by a factor of four) N100 masks.

I definitely agree with your comment about some people who don't use dust protection and say that they will get one of the fancy powered respirators "when they can afford it". I think that mindset isn't inclined to ever feel like they can afford the expense powered respirator and in the meanwhile don't use any sort of respiratory protection.

About the Dust Bee Gone nose rag ... it's completely worthless and a false sense of protection. It's not even as effective as the paper "comfort" masks. I bought one about a dozen years ago before I knew better and then developed all sorts of respiratory ailments from wood dust some which I hacked up, but most of which will always be in my lungs. So, if you're using one, replace it with a mask that is certified to at least N95.

[Geoff Whaling]

Thanks to all for the input. I should have clarified at the start what I'm using now: It's a Uvex/Honeywell S9500 headgear with the Uvex S9555 polycarbonate shield. The shield is Aus/NZ rated 1337.1; I'm not sure if this standard can be directly compared to ANSI Z787.1.

My dust mask is the Dust Bee Gone "nuisance" mask.


Clay, My apology if my earlier post seemed over the top but when replying we never quite know how much experience or what background an OP may have and given some of the junk face shields sold in box stores & the like it pays to be cautious.

Uvex is a good reliable brand & the Turboshield has all the features I mentioned - so great choice. Aus 1337.1 is similar to Z87.1 and the tests are similar but do vary in technical detail, however our standard has a couple of extra rating levels - Low , Medium, High, Extra High. I use the "Armadillo" - "Certified to AS/NZS 1337.1:2010 – High impact protection," which has similar design to the Turboshield - https://www.protectoralsafe.com.au/search/faceshields-armadillo/307119711

I'm not a fan of the Dust-be-gone nuisance dust masks - purely because they aren't tested (to my knowledge) and their own site says "Effective down to 3 microns. Not NIOSH or OSHA approved." (the underlining is mine) IMO a P95, P99, or P100 rated filter from an approved manufacturer is a far better choice.

The statement the manufacturers of the Dust-be-gone list on their website is misleading and I am surprised they are allowed to continue making the claim "effectice" - how effective is it? 80% (a random figure I picked) or do they come close to the 95, 99, & 99.97% standard of the tests??? We simply do not know. So this leads to the very obvious questions - Why isn't it tested for NIOSH / OHSA compliance? Did it fail testing??? In an industrial workplace they would not even get a look in because they are not tested. Perhaps they are better than wearing nothing but the best advice says the damaging dust is the very fine dust. My opinion may/would be quite different if they were tested depending upon the findings & test results, & until they are tested I personally would not touch them no matter who was promoting them.

[David C. Roseman]

Clay, to the good advice you've gotten thus far, I'll add one thought at the risk of stating the obvious. No respirator/face shield setup is worth anything if its use is more honored in the breach. Before you invest in one of the self-contained battery-powered systems, or a face shield with air supplied by an umbilical hose from a remote turbine, you might want to look for someone locally who has one so you can actually demo it first. At the very least, see if your local woodturning store will let you put one on and wear it in the store for a little while. Each to his own, but for me they've just been too annoying for me to want to wear consistently.

I rely on a simple nuisance mask http://www.woodcraft.com/product/153313/nuisance-dust-masks-with-exhale-valve-box-of-20.aspx under a clear polycarbonate face shield, with very strong dust collection immediately at the work piece and evacuated from the shop, plus an overhead ambient air filter. I'm sure you know that it's the very fine dust, not the chips, that is most harmful for the lungs, and this combination seems to be quite effective. The nuisance mask I linked to avoids fogging pretty well with glasses and the face shield.

[Clay Fails]

Well guys, I've learned that the Dust Bee Gone is not highly regarded here! That's probably accurate based just on looking at it and using it a bit. I've been woodworking for quite awhile, and have used the disposable N95 masks with the rubber bands, have a couple 3M half respirators (6200 and one other), ceiling hung JDS Air Tech filtration system, Oneida Smart Pro dust collector ducted to every tool (including lathe), etc.

I was just looking for the optimum shield/mask combo from you experienced turners. I'll have to think long and hard about a PAPR (Trend or 3M), not only due to cost but mostly from the standpoint of "will I really wear the contraption"?