Sawstop and Incra miter gauge. Argh!

[Prashun Patel]

My Sawstop brake fired for the 2nd time since I've owned it.

The first time (2-3 years ago), it fired because it contacted the aluminum Incra miter gauge fence.

The second time (this weekend), it fired because...IT CONTACTED THE ALUMINUM INCRA MITER GAUGE! FENCE!

I thought I had learned my lesson, but apparently not. Changing the angle changes the distance of the fence to the blade.

Lesson learned: use a long, auxiliary fence so you can keep the metal part far away from the blade.

It's an expensive mistake to make, requiring both a new cartridge AND blade... (and underwear...)

[Hoang N Nguyen]

(and underwear...)

I was just going to ask what your reaction was when it fired but this says it all. I hope I never experience it with mine.

[Ben Rivel]

Yep Ive been worried about that since I decided to go with an Incra Miter Gauge. Im even more concerned about using the I-Box jig with my SawStop. Still havent used that yet though.

[Harvey Miller]

The Ryobi BT3000 guys used the mantra 'paint the red line' for that reason. Their sliding miter table fences would suffer a similar fate. They (me included) would draw a red line down the front of the table in line with the blade kerf. Anything touching the line could/would be in danger.

[Beau Cassidy]

Yep Ive been worried about that since I decided to go with an Incra Miter Gauge. Im even more concerned about using the I-Box jig with my SawStop. Still havent used that yet though.

I wouldn't worry about firing the brake we using the I-Box jig. I have made hundreds of boxes with the jig on my SS without problems.

[Peter Aeschliman]

I did the same thing with my Dado stack. It was a very sad and expensive moment. Haha

[Dick Mahany]

That's why I like my Unisaw........it'll slice right through that Incra miter gauge without stopping. I know this to be true :(

[Ben Rivel]

That's why I like my Unisaw........it'll slice right through that Incra miter gauge without stopping. I know this to be true :(
Agreed! It will also slice right through your finger! ;)

[Stan Calow]

Harvey - yes that simple red line of nail polish has saved me a few times.

[Jim Dwight]

The top surface of the BT3000/3100 is also ribbed so you can paint a line that doesn't wear off.

[Victor Robinson]

Oh man, this is a mistake that's only supposed to happen once. Sorry dude. :(

[Alan Lightstone]

Yeah, wiped out a dado stack a few years ago. Expensive lesson.

At least no personal injury. Outside of licking your wounds, perhaps.

[Jay Aubuchon]

I too learned that "Changing the angle changes the distance of the fence to the blade." the hard/expensive way. At least I was using the original SawStop blade. And I got a trophy to hang on my shop wall.

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[Bill Orbine]

What kind of underwear you're wearing that so expensive?

[Kyle Iwamoto]

What kind of underwear you're wearing that so expensive?

Isn't that question a bit personal? :)

[Erik Loza]

Not a SS but I had a 1" Lenox Tri-master snap during the middle of a live demo with my MM16 at a trade show some years back. Sounded like a gunshot right next to my head. Kind of froze in place. You never really know how you will react until it happens.

Erik

[glenn bradley]

I added a sacrificial piece to my Incra. Let me see if I have a pic . . .

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I milled a length of stock to fit in the tube. I then glue "flags" to that stock as required. There was already a hole in my fence that I used for a small screw to secure it. I also have inserts for miters and other angles. I keep the additional "tube insert" stock in my bin with my other sac-fence stuff by the saw.

[Terry Thillemann]

I just bought a new Sawstop with Inca Joinery fence system and Inca 5000 miter sled. I haven't used either yet and was only slightly concerned with the metal contact. Do I need to do anything special to avoid the fence or miter guage from engaging the brake?

[Prashun Patel]

You just have to be careful everytime you set the angle gauge or bevel angle of the blade. The system is not sensitive to near-blade contact. Its pretty reliable and wont trip even if you are a couple mm from the blade with the gauge. Mine tripped both times because of direct metal contact.

[Keith Hankins]

My Sawstop brake fired for the 2nd time since I've owned it.

The first time (2-3 years ago), it fired because it contacted the aluminum Incra miter gauge fence.

The second time (this weekend), it fired because...IT CONTACTED THE ALUMINUM INCRA MITER GAUGE! FENCE!

I thought I had learned my lesson, but apparently not. Changing the angle changes the distance of the fence to the blade.

Lesson learned: use a long, auxiliary fence so you can keep the metal part far away from the blade.

It's an expensive mistake to make, requiring both a new cartridge AND blade... (and underwear...)

Ok I love my 1000se too. Easy fix! You need to add a plywood (or hardwood) fence to the front of your rail. If you notice the flip stops are made for this (see pic) This will server two purposes. Biggest one, you don't get your fence close to the blade. Second you can have a zero point for your blade no guessing. I counter-sinked some bolts with tabs and have a set up for 90 and 45 which is the most common. Any other angles they get a custom cut. You use your same ball screwdriver to loosen and slide the fence. Its easy to just slide it over the blade and lock it down and bam away you go!

Here's a pic. I prefer cabinet ply due to stability.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskrv4jSJ

[Bill Sutherland]

Anyone using the Forrest 1/4&3/8 square tipped blade on the SS? I've got the IBox and want to use that blade with the IBox and wondered if i need to change the cartridge.

[Cary Falk]

Do I need to do anything special to avoid the fence or miter guage from engaging the brake?

Putting it in bypass mode should do the trick. :rolleyes: One of the reasons I haven't bought a SawStop is because I think more often than not I would have it in bypass mode thus negating the safety feature.

[Alan Lightstone]

I use the Freud square tipped set with no issues with the IBox on my SawStop. I don't see why the Forrest should have any issues.

You don't need to use bypass mode for that. It's VERY rare that I ever use that mode anyway.

[Terry Thillemann]

I've seen videos showing the Sawstop cutting through nails and wet lumber without being in bypass mode and without tripping ... I believe the video showed you, the operator, must simply not be touching whatever contacts the blade, such as the fence, so it doesn't detect a short/ground. I'm not sure if it's really as simple as this or not.

I do not intend to run in bypass mode. I'll blow up as many blades as it takes to keep my fingers safe. I think it comes down to not being in a hurry and paying more attention but this is why I asked if there's something I should be doing, such as adding wood to the fence, or simply pay more attention and validating before executing.

[Richard Shaefer]

My Sawstop brake fired for the 2nd time since I've owned it.

The first time (2-3 years ago), it fired because it contacted the aluminum Incra miter gauge fence.

The second time (this weekend), it fired because...IT CONTACTED THE ALUMINUM INCRA MITER GAUGE! FENCE!

I thought I had learned my lesson, but apparently not. Changing the angle changes the distance of the fence to the blade.

Lesson learned: use a long, auxiliary fence so you can keep the metal part far away from the blade.

It's an expensive mistake to make, requiring both a new cartridge AND blade... (and underwear...)

I did that once, too.
I often find it funny that I'm much more careful around my Sawstop blade than I was the old Craftsman tablesaw.

Sure I place a high value on my wobbly bits, but on some level, there's a more tangible understanding of the implied $200 consequence that the "BANG!/SHWOOP!" sound brings vs the less tangible prospect of spending the rest of my life wiping my butt with my left hand.

[Jim Barstow]

Done it twice. The feeling that I was an idiot was worse than the $$$. I also triggered it totally out of the blue when I hit a staple imbedded in a piece of maple. Even after it fired, the staple was hard to see. I also have no idea where a staple would come from. This wasn't big box lumber but someone must have tagged it at some point. That time I was pissed instead of feeling like an idiot.

[jim mills]

I did it three times in the first year! TWICE IN ONE DAY!!! Exact way you did it... cutting miters with an incra. I nearly dragged the saw to the curb.

[Roger Feeley]

Sounds like a shotgun. My brake fire was the result of my Jess-em fence hitting the blade. I was using a stacked dado set and nibbling away. I didn't realize that the fence had come loose and as I was moving the wood to the right, the fence was moving with it. I have since replaced those spiffy brass knobs on the fence with ugly blue cam locks. I can tell when those guys are tight. Problem solved at some expense.

I've had two brake fires and both were my fault. I accept them as a price of having the safety system. I have both brakes hanging near the saw as a reminder.

[Roger Feeley]

Jim, check your brakes. The early ones could pick up a staple. The SS people told me to put clear packing tape over the surface of my brake to avoid that problem. Now, the brakes have a plastic coating on them (basically packing tape but nicer). Staples can still be a problem but not always.

[Glen Blanchard]

Prashun - Welcome to the 'two time club'. I had the same thing happen with my miter gauge - twice. To add insult to injury (figuratively speaking) my second event happened within a month of the first. Talk about feeling stupid!! At least you can proclaim that the second brake firing didn't happen for a couple of years!

[Jerome Stanek]

The shop I used to work at got 2 saw stops last year and each have been triggered at least 4 times. Now were due to fingers only ply wood and MDF. The whole shop knows when this happens and scares the S==t out of everyone.

[Ben Rivel]

Everyone always talks about the brake activating as though its crazy loud and scary. I have stood in front of a jobsite SawStop and listened to it go off with no hearing protection and didnt think it was that loud. Is the PCS/ICS much louder? Or is it just that its not expected and startles you?

[Larry Frank]

No..not that noisy....just a real oh xxx moment.

Incra must have a deal with Sawstop. I put a wooden front on my 1000SE.

[Prashun Patel]

there's a difference between it going off when you expect it, and going off when you are alone and not expecting it. yes, I think it's just more emotionally scary than loud.

[Terry Thillemann]

For those with the Incra, did the brake trip because the miter touched the blade? I spoke with Mark this morning since I just bought the 5000 and he indicated if you have the main sled on the left and tilt the blade you could obviously touch (the sled should be on the right if you plan to tilt the blade a lot) or that the fence does cross the blade path between 35-45 degree angle. He advised to move the sled through the cut path after setting the angle to ensure it doesn't touch the blade prior to make a real cutting pass and I wouldn't have any issues....

[Ben Rivel]

there's a difference between it going off when you expect it, and going off when you are alone and not expecting it. yes, I think it's just more emotionally scary than loud.
Okay yea that I can believe. Since I had never heard a PCS or ICS go off I thought it might be louder.


For those with the Incra, did the brake trip because the miter touched the blade? I spoke with Mark this morning since I just bought the 5000 and he indicated if you have the main sled on the left and tilt the blade you could obviously touch (the sled should be on the right if you plan to tilt the blade a lot) or that the fence does cross the blade path between 35-45 degree angle. He advised to move the sled through the cut path after setting the angle to ensure it doesn't touch the blade prior to make a real cutting pass and I wouldn't have any issues....
It goes off because usually the operators hand is touching some metal part of the miter gauge when the fence makes contact with the blade I believe.

[Mike Henderson]

Only had my SS brake go off one time. I went in to set a distance between the blade and fence with a metal rule while the blade was still moving (slowly). Not very loud. But a real "oh, xxx moment." I felt really stupid because I knew it would trigger as long as the blade was moving. Just too much in a hurry.

I'm a bit more careful now.

Mike

[Curt Harms]

I don't have a sawstop but didn't care for Incra's fence - I found it too thick so came up with this. Not difficult or expensive to make. There's no metal to touch the saw blade and I could always leave the T track further away from the end nearest the blade if that were a concern.

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[Prashun Patel]

Nice fence, Curt, but you'd have the same problem I had. The blade could still touch your t tracks. I use an auxiliary wood fence on my Incra, and I have it overhanging the right edge of my alum subfence by a good 3-4 inches. Each time you change the bevel or gauge angle, you still need to re-position your fence, so the blade doesn't run through your extrusions, right? Even with a setback, you could still get snuck.

Here's the thing: even with a setback, any solution requires some care on the user's part. I'd like to believe I am careful 100% of the time, but history shows I'm only careful 99.99% of the time.

[Keith Hankins]

Anyone using the Forrest 1/4&3/8 square tipped blade on the SS? I've got the IBox and want to use that blade with the IBox and wondered if i need to change the cartridge.

I don't use that paticular blade but have another brand 1/4 flat tipped blade for cutting tenons. Mine is the size of a dado set so I have to switch to the dado cartridge. The gap between the blade tip and cartridge is critical and about the thickness of a nickle. Hope that helps.

[john lawson]

It's just fate, trying to get even with you for your good decision to buy the SawStop!!! ;)

[Roger Feeley]

Ben, you are right. It's not that bad if you were expecting it. Mostly, it's the surprise.

[Jon Nuckles]

My SawStop is about one year old and I haven't triggered it yet. I have realized more than once and just in time that a miter gauge adjustment (Kreg) would put the metal in the blade's path. One of these days I won't recognize it in time and will join the club, I'm sure.

[Curt Harms]

you still need to re-position your fence, so the blade doesn't run through your extrusions, right?

Yes, I have to reposition the fence when changing the blade angle, I don't think there's any getting away from that. It would be possible to leave the vertical T track that attaches to the base a few inches short to reduce the likelihood of cutting through T track. I don't know how one could shorten the T track on top and still have full function of the stop though.