Sorry for another "what should I buy thread"....

[Anthony Roma]

I've been a member of a local maker space for a while. Loved having access to all of the tools. Ready to jump in and expand the home shop to the next level. I have a lathe, mill, 3-d printer, etc... So, the next logical step is a laser... this is 80% for personal projects and 20% to try and re-coop some of the costs (if I can)...

So... I've been shopping for a while... I'm looking in the 2-4k range... I figure if I spend less than 2k on the machine that leaves more budget to upgrade/fix/buy material to use with it...

I think my only option (budget wise) is to get a Chinesium machine (or a raging deal on a used machine)...

Machine 1
ebay.com/itm/US-SHIP-50W-CO2-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-USB-Port-/191267353778?hash=item2c886c34b2:g:rLUAAOSw6EhUSND r

Machine 2
ebay.com/itm/50w-CO2-USB-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-300mm-X-500mm-/301754502253?hash=item4641f84c6d:g:sSAAAOSwgyxWVmY k

I get the impression from reading that some of you can probably take one look at these machines and tell all of critical specs (what kind of laser tube, electronics, etc)...

To me they look very similar, machine 1 has a larger cut surface (400x600) but other then that they look similar.

Anyone have an opinion? 50w seems like enough to cut 1/4 "common" material...

Tony

[Keith Winter]

I would pass on both of these, low end Chinese machines equals trouble. The first seller goldraydigital is even too lazy to put his logo in his listing "quality" photo. Says your "logo here". (see screenshot of the listing page) His lack of caring enough to even change out his graphics says a lot to me.

328251

Second seller sunshinesmileservice sells everything from lasers to women's socks to bicycle parts to grills. A guy who sells socks as well as lasers...what happens when the sock dealer's laser breaks?

I'd advise you and anyone looking at cheap lasers to avoid ebay for lasers, you're bound for trouble with 95% of the sellers on there. If you cannot afford a domestic or at least decent Chinese, save your pennies until you can. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble. Just my two cents.

[Anthony Roma]

I expected a bunch of that... but then I see that you have a Thuderlaser... is that a better option? Does that at least rank as "decent Chinese"? what's better about it? Doesn't it use basically the same controller and laser tube? It's not a matter of saving my pennies, I could buy whatever I want, it's just how much money do I want tied up in the shop... I'm trying to find the sweet spot of price / performance... As for the buyers on ebay, the post is more about the machines than the outlets... it seems that a bunch of people sell basically the same few machines over and over...

Any advice/opinion is welcome... thanks for the help.

Tony

[Keith Winter]

I like my Thunder laser it's one of the more expensive Chinese lasers though a few more features than some of the others. I had one problem with a tube that they resolved and ultimately made right by me, and a combiner mirror that went out that I was really impressed with their response to. I had the part from China in a little less than week. Thunder is a builder not so much a manufacturer. G weike, red sail, jinan king rabbit are all manufacturers. Technically they all use off the shelf parts to some degree so you could call them all builders or assemblers but I think the three I called manufacturers pump out a lot more volume than say Thunder. What you do get with Thunder over the others, which drew me to them is more options standard, more quality control, and some upgraded parts. Does it last longer, who knows. Time will tell, Thunder has only been around a couple years I think. They also cost more than the others mentioned so potentially less issues but a higher initial cost.

Since you asked how it compares to the eBay specials.... When I got the thunder it was tuned and read to rock and roll except I had a tube issue (thunder doesn't make the tube) ultimately it was replaced AND I got $950 back not a bad deal. When you get that eBay laser it's going to be made of the absolute cheapest parts they can find with little or no testing. Chinese can cut more corners than you can possibly imagine to save money. Your odds of having an issue if not multiple issues right off the bat are probably 80/20 80% of the time people have issues and 30%-40% of those are fairly severe. When you have the issue they won't know how to resolve it because they are just selling a boxed item they know nothing about (think like buying a computer from Walmart vs a computer store). Or your game stopper issue will occur after the 30 Day eBay window and you'll be up the creek. Even if you find the issue right off the bat what are you going to do, crate it back up and spend $400 on a truck with a lift gate to send it back in hopes of a refund minus a restocking fee... To be fair this scenario can happen with a direct import too but most are inclined to help somewhat they don't want their name tarnished because the sell lasers all day vs the eBay seller who sells socks and a million other things too. If he has too much trouble with lasers he just stops selling them and starts selling pizza ovens instead...

As for the other brands:
Jinan King Rabbit comes recommend by people I respect, as does red sail and g weike. I don't own all four but if you search this forum and others you will learn a lot about and them from highest to lowest cost thunder, rabbit, red sail, g weike (there are many other brands out there too, these are the ones I've researched the most). Quality highest to lowest is debatable, but I'd say the exact same order based upon the thousands of posts and hundreds of thread pages I've read. G Weike being at the low end of both of those scales for the four mentioned, but all 4 being higher quality than the eBay machines in your original post. You get what you pay for.

Domestic Chinese are another story all together. Similar machines but US support. Rabbit, boss, automation tech to name a few.

[Bert Kemp]

you buy a 500 or 1000 dollar laser off ebay and thats what you got, nothing else like support, these are cheaply built machines why do you think they cost so little? and don't forget the guy selling them bought them for less.You get what you pay for and sometime less. You wanna by a cheap laser and then try to make it better, put more money and hours of time and all you do is end up with a more expensive cheap laser. These ebay lasers for the most part are junk, not because there Chinese but there cheap Chinese, you can find a decent one on ebay but not for 2k maybe 4 or 5 k and even then you'll have very little support. Now if you want to spend 4K and do a direct import yourself then you might get a decent machine and a small amount of support.Just take a look at what people are saying about these 500 and 1000 dollar machines, how they arrive broken and then the seller can't be found . Your statement ,"I expected a bunch of that and I see you have a Thunder Laser " Yes He has a Thunder laser he did a direct import paid a lot more then 2k for it, yes I have a Rabbit laser paid good money and its a great machine with good support. Not a flimsy built piece of junk. You say they look similar to you, well there not, you can't see the machine how its built the rails, the beds, ect ect.

[Bill George]

Spend some time on here reading and searching you will find the answers you want.

[Scott Shepherd]

There was a guy here about a year ago that bought one and he documented the experience in several videos and posted them on this forum. I had a quick look around and couldn't find them but they are around here somewhere. He posted all the problems he had and the problems he had getting it to work and dealing with the company. In the end, I think they left him high and dry with something that didn't work. He appeared to be a smart guy with a lot of technical ability and he proceeded to order parts and fix it himself.

I have no experience with the machines you have listed. They might be perfectly fine. One thing to note, from someone that's been on this forum for almost 9 years, is that I don't recall too many people who bought ebay lasers coming back on the forum after buying them and saying how awesome they are and how they are doing great. That's not to say it doesn't happen, just an anecdotal point that you'd think after 9 years of posts, you'd see at least a dozen or so people raving about how they got a great machine for little money and it worked fantastic. Yet, I can't recall one single story like that. To me, that speaks volumes.

You have plenty of options for low cost machines, I'd suggest you make that decision wisely and see what others have done that has worked.

[Roy Sanders]

Have you thought about self importing? I imported my machine from Nice-Cut. It is a good machine, I have had it over a year and still get support through email, whatsapp chat, and remote. I also researched the cost/benefit and i have a better machine than eBay at a lower cost, including the shipping cost. The idea of 'free shipping' is a game.

[Keith Sherwin]

Hi Tony, I bought a unit EXTREMELY SIMILAR to choice#1 - Might not be that dealer, but it looks EXACTLY like the POS I bought. DO NOT BUY IT. I paid extra (US$1910) for various items but they were not there - regardless of all the lies I was told. He even said that the mirror adjustments were "Auto Focus" and it was the software that would do 900 mm/s. I have looked at many before and after and IMHO decided that if there is any quality, they MUST have HiWin style square rails for ALL Axis, not just the X. If you want more info, send me a PM. Sometimes you don't even get what you pay for when ordering from China.

[Kev Williams]

Two years ago I bought a Triumph based on the experience of one user here. The entire order was done via e-mail, and I've been quite pleased with the machine. Last night I was cleaning the X axis rails and I was noticing how rigid the rail and laser head assembly actually is. I'm not sure if the rail assembly is considered 'good quality' or not, but everything it is as tight today as the day I bought it. The machine was cheap to buy, and obviously is not up to the standards of a western machines, but as far as overall build quality, I can definitely say it's not a cheesy machine. The blower they supplied left a little to be desired, but overall I have no complaints. And I've ordered some lenses and a few lens tubes, all via e-mail. In fact, I'd never actually talked to anyone at Triumph on the phone, e-mail has worked fine. Have no clue about customer service since, other than buying lenses, I've never needed any...

[Anthony Roma]

Good thoughts guys, thank you very much. I've been spending hours surfing this forum. Very impressed with how much information and knowledgeable people there are. It has been an amazing resource to go through. I like the comment about how you don't really hear that many stories about people that are happy with these extremely cheap machines. Good point... I would consider self importing, but that scares me a little (more fear of the unknown that anything).

It sounds like I should get a quote from Thunder, Triumph (I just went to their website)... If I'm going to spend a little more, what about the FSL? I hear very mixed reviews about their service. Anyone around that is happy with one of their products?

What cutting software is better than another? Or do they mostly use the same?

Is Redsail worth looking at... is 3,500 a good budget? maybe 4k delivered? What size bed do you guys think is too small? 400x600 seems about as small as you would want to go, but, I guess that depends on what stock you are using...

Thanks again for the comments, you guys are a great resource...

Tony

[Bert Kemp]

FSL I think the overall consensus of the forum is to stay as far away from FLS as you can get.Don't take my word just search the forums. Sure a couple guys will swear by them because they have them, but the more knowledgeable people here will tell you to stay away. I didn't listen and I bought one anyway and boy was I sorry. Then most people here told me that I couldn't go wrong with a Rabbit so I bought one and am very happy so far. You should also look at Boss laser ans Automation Technology Lasers there well known here and are decent machine for the Money. You can get a good decent Import doing it yourself from China and save some money. Several people here have done it and I'm sure they will share all the info you need to do it yourself. Just ask Dave Somers or Keith Winters they are just 2 that have had good success importing.

[Keith Winter]

Agreed with Bert on FSL. Red sail there are a few people on the boards who use them, I gather they like them fine. They are pretty basic machines, but also one of the less expensive ones. Depending on your use they might be a good fit. Maybe one of them will chime in on Red Sail, or try searching the forum I know they have multiple posts. Keep in mind both Red Sail and Thunder are imports so you will have to service it yourself, imports are best for those who are a little handy. If you want more hand holding I would recommend a usa seller that imports. That way you have more support in the usa. See my prior post I mentioned 3 of those. Automation I think even sells red sail for some of their machines (rebranded). For Thunder quotes you'll want to talk to Nolan. He's their sales rep, sold Gozzie, me and a few others our machines.


Good thoughts guys, thank you very much. I've been spending hours surfing this forum. Very impressed with how much information and knowledgeable people there are. It has been an amazing resource to go through. I like the comment about how you don't really hear that many stories about people that are happy with these extremely cheap machines. Good point... I would consider self importing, but that scares me a little (more fear of the unknown that anything).

It sounds like I should get a quote from Thunder, Triumph (I just went to their website)... If I'm going to spend a little more, what about the FSL? I hear very mixed reviews about their service. Anyone around that is happy with one of their products?

What cutting software is better than another? Or do they mostly use the same?

Is Redsail worth looking at... is 3,500 a good budget? maybe 4k delivered? What size bed do you guys think is too small? 400x600 seems about as small as you would want to go, but, I guess that depends on what stock you are using...

Thanks again for the comments, you guys are a great resource...

Tony

[Clark Pace]

Agreed with Bert on FSL. Red sail there are a few people on the boards who use them, I gather they like them fine. They are pretty basic machines, but also one of the less expensive ones. Depending on your use they might be a good fit. Maybe one of them will chime in on Red Sail, or try searching the forum I know they have multiple posts. Keep in mind both Red Sail and Thunder are imports so you will have to service it yourself, imports are best for those who are a little handy. If you want more hand holding I would recommend a usa seller that imports. That way you have more support in the usa. See my prior post I mentioned 3 of those. Automation I think even sells red sail for some of their machines (rebranded). For Thunder quotes you'll want to talk to Nolan. He's their sales rep, sold Gozzie, me and a few others our machines.


I have a redsail x700. I have had it for about 3 years. so far it has been a good machine. minimal issues. I ordered direct. Support has been ok also. It's not crazy fast at engraving. 500mm a sec max, but detail is good. It also cuts fine.

[Keith Winter]

I have a redsail x700. I have had it for about 3 years. so far it has been a good machine. minimal issues. I ordered direct. Support has been ok also. It's not crazy fast at engraving. 500mm a sec max, but detail is good. It also cuts fine.

Hey Clark! Was hoping you'd reply. Anthony, Clark is one of the people I was talking about with the red sails that liked it fine.

[David Somers]

Anthony, I imported and have been very happy with the machine and the company I used. Happy to PM or email with you on the process if you want.
If you have not imported before a broker can be a huge help.
If you want to import many here have used Shenhui and had good luck with the machines and support. A quick search on Shenhui will find them.

If you import I would suggest you be a bit more technically inclined so you can be more independent with your work on the machine. Support will be by skype or email and you need to be fairly comfortable with your own skills. Doesnt mean you need to be an electrical engineer, just willing to dig and be hands on with the machine. I would also suggest you not be in a position where down time is a big problem for you. If that is the case then like others have said I would shoot for buying from Rabbit Laser USA, Boss, or Office Automation so you are buying a Chinese machine that has been gone over carefully in the US before shipping to you, and you have US based english speaking support people and parts available. Remember that a Chinese machine imported from China means you are dealing with the date and time difference between you and them which introduces delays right there, not to mention in shipping. Depending on the makeup of the support staff you may find that email support is better than phone simply because of language and accent issues. I would not be afraid of buying direct though provided you are buying from a known good company. You can save significant money. And in the price range you are mentioning you will likely find you are limited to a direct import.

As others have said, I would avoid Ebay machines like the plague. Do a search on the forum and you will find allllllll kinds of tales about them and very little happiness.

Have a terrific New Year Anthony!! And the rest of you folks too! <big grin!!!>

Dave

[Matt McCoy]

Tony: What are you currently using at the maker space?

[Anthony Roma]

There are 3 lasers over there. One FSL gen 5 machine and 2 larger Chinese (not sure what brand) machines. The Chinese lasers seem to have troubles quite often... Some of it is user error, some not...

[Keith Winter]

Fsl is Chinese.... Like the other two

[Clark Pace]

Fsl is Chinese.... Like the other two

If it were not for the chinese lasers I would not have one. While I know they are not as good. There have been very few jobs I've not been able to do. I've more than paid for my chinese laser with how much I use it. I run a small business and use it at least 4 days a week part time. My orders are generally $100 per order. I do mostly cutting. I think that is were the chinese machines shine. While cut times are comparable to the US laser I had a decade ago, engrave times are slower on my $3300 dollars after shipping machine. The quality of my engraves are very good though. Good enough that I've not had any complaints from my customers. Marble and wood engraves come out stunning.

If this is your first laser, and you have a tight budget, go with a US supported chinese laser. I don't think you will regret it. Of course if you have the money you can't go wrong with ULS unless you don't make your money back that is :)

[Bert Kemp]

If I remember correctly you had a budget of under 4k, so your only alternative is a Chinese laser, the only question is which one.You seem to think that if you buy a Chinese machine you get nothing but problems , If you want problems buy the Cheap Chinese FSL, its a flimsy poorly built laser, I had one I know. If you want to save money but still get a decent machine import it yourself, or if you need good support buy one from a US imported Like Rabbit Laser USA or one of the other 2 that were mentioned . You might find a really old Epilog for 5 K but your choices are very limited with a 4 K budget.

[Bert Kemp]

So look at the build quality of these 3 look at the tube placement on the FSL, out in the open easy to hit and break is it. No z axis on the fsl either I bet the 2 Chinese have a z axis. what happens if you want to engrave a box thats say 6 or 7 inch tall, you have to unscrew the bottom of the fsl and prop it up on blocks or something, were with a z axis you just lower the table, easy peezz.



There are 3 lasers over there. One FSL gen 5 machine and 2 larger Chinese (not sure what brand) machines. The Chinese lasers seem to have troubles quite often... Some of it is user error, some not...

[Jerome Stanek]

Take a look at what Automation Technologies have. They have some in your price range and are easy to deal with.

[Matt McCoy]

Fsl is Chinese.... Like the other two

The Gen 5 is assembled in Las Vegas. Its PRO lasers are modified G. Weike with Retina Engrave control cards.


...If you want problems buy the Cheap Chinese FSL, its a flimsy poorly built laser, I had one I know.

Tony: Since you have the opportunity to test drive a couple of your options and note the Pros/Cons of the Gen 5 as well as the Chinese lasers, I would take a few projects that you intend to make with you and do a side-by-side comparison. Lasers usually get a lot of use at maker spaces and may not have the same amount of mileage on them, but it's a start.


If you want to save money but still get a decent machine import it yourself, or if you need good support buy one from a US imported Like Rabbit Laser USA or one of the other 2 that were mentioned. You might find a really old Epilog for 5 K but your choices are very limited with a 4 K budget.

Tony: I suspect you're a DIY guy, so Chinese or Chinese/US support would be a good option for you. They can require a little more fuss, but can be adjusted and upgraded easily with inexpensive parts that are widely available as opposed to expensive proprietary parts on an old -- probably worn out -- Western machine that may not be supported any longer.

[Russel Nidel]

Hi Anthony! This is my first post to SawMillCreek, after many months of reading and lurking. For the laser, I'm just a little bit ahead of you.. similar shop setup and interests.
A lot of the answer to "which machine" might depend on YOU as much as the machine.. you seem like a technical guy, maker, DIY, so you might have more of an appetite for fixing/tuning things and getting them just right, even if they were delivered less so out of the box. That might be more fun than spending money to get something perfect with great support, I don't know.

The fab lab I used had a cheap Chinese machine, in generally poor condition, and I found it intensely frustrating to get good repeatable parts out of it. I decided I wanted none of that, and no water-cooling buckets and hoses, especially.

The upper end of your budget might fit a small Epilog Zing desktop machine, which is where I started shopping.. Their demo samples are incredible, and really got me excited about a laser. I need very small features more than power. But then, everyone I talked to said "more power" or "more area" so things quickly spiraled up from there. I tried a 75W Universal Laser PLS machine and was hooked.. incredibly fast, repeatable.

I ended up going with ULS for mine too, largely because they are local and very supportive via email. No regrets, but yeah, it left stretch-marks in the budget.

Cheers!
(ULS VLS4.60 60W)

[Bill George]

Ditto on the ULS, I purchased a pre-owned rebuilt machine from a dealer within driving distance and I can tell you its built like a tank, and its like the Eveready bunny needs nothing to keep working away. True its not a Trotec but gee whiz it was at least $10 to 15 K less. If you need a lot of engraving done in a hurry and have the money get a Trotec. But for everything else just keep looking around.

[Bryan Spiegel]

I have a FSL 5th gen. They have issues right out of the box, and Ive done enough engraving to wear out 2 x axis rails on them in almost 2 years. Also blown through a power supply. The tube gets dirty because it is in the airflow. Unless you do something really wrong, it isnt going to break. The airflow is the reason our PS went too... way too much gunk in there.

Their controller and software are really good (although, I only have second hand experience with the chinese, and first hand experience with Trotec Job Control to compare to). Support can be hit or miss, right now, it is pretty good. Im in the process of changing the x rail to a PBS linear bearing while we wait for a new power supply to come from California.

Overall, worth the money possibly in headaches saved. Accessory upcharge (lesnes, rotary, etc) is way too much for chinese parts.

[Bill Reibelt]

I have a 9060 80 watt FS Laser unit, A couple of hic hups setting it up. I am in Australia and parts of the machine was 110 volt and others in 240 volts, not stated when i purchased it. Bert Kemp helped and sent over 110 volt wall sockets. I have had the machine for 3 year now and have only had to replace the tube. Great for doing the work that I do , name plates and cutting wood & Perspex. If you purchase any machine get the refrigerated water cooling unit not an air cooled unit.
What ever unit that you purchase get the largest size with the largest watt tube that you can afford. Bill

[Matt McCoy]

I have a FSL 5th gen. ...Also blown through a power supply. The tube gets dirty because it is in the airflow. Unless you do something really wrong, it isnt going to break. The airflow is the reason our PS went too...

Sounds like you do not have enough airflow.

[Matt McCoy]

I have a 9060 80 watt FS Laser unit, A couple of hic hups setting it up. I am in Australia and parts of the machine was 110 volt and others in 240 volts, not stated when i purchased it. Bert Kemp helped and sent over 110 volt wall sockets. I have had the machine for 3 year now and have only had to replace the tube. Great for doing the work that I do , name plates and cutting wood & Perspex. If you purchase any machine get the refrigerated water cooling unit not an air cooled unit.
What ever unit that you purchase get the largest size with the largest watt tube that you can afford. Bill


Hi Bill: How many hours on the tube before you replaced it?

[Anthony Roma]

Still up in the air, thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I've priced out a couple of options. One question, how important do you guys think the size is, especially in the Z direction?

[Gary Hair]

For what I do Z has never mattered much but X and Y have been very important! The smartest move I made when I bought my first laser was to get a large bed with pass-through. That capability brought me thousands in revenue that I would have missed otherwise. That's also why I bought a Speedy 400 - one of the largest beds without going to a huge flatbed.

[Clark Pace]

Still up in the air, thanks for all your comments and suggestions. I've priced out a couple of options. One question, how important do you guys think the size is, especially in the Z direction?


It just depends what you are doing. I've don't 10inch stuff, like boxes barrels etc. I have also used the larger machines where it would have really been nice on a few items, but we could not do it. If it's an option go for it as long as it's in your budget. You never know what you will be ask to cut.

[Mike Null]

I have used the 9" z a few times and many times I have needed 5" or more. But, unlike Gary, I can remember the few times I've needed a large x/y dimension and they wouldn't have justified the expense of a larger table.

If you plan on using a rotary device then a substantial z movement will be necessary.

I know a long time engraver who has a shop in a mall and he has never felt the need to get a table larger than 12 x 18.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'm with Mike, which I guess just shows how much it varies from company to company. In 8-9 years now, the number of times we have been asked to engrave something larger than 18" x 24" could be counted on 1 hand, and the amount of times we've been asked to engrave something that was 9" tall has been about the same. The ones that were too tall have always been a "box" that's put together, and it's one piece, from a walk in customer. In those cases, we've always just taken the lid off the box and engraved them.

I think it really just depends on your market, your business, and what work you try and get.

[Bert Kemp]

I also agree . I've never had anything so tall I couldn't engrave it. I have about 9"z and I've made a few boxes for friends and there never more then 5 or 6 inches tall.Most the time I do the engraving in corel before I even cut the box. So unless you think doing tall objects is going to be a substantial part of your business I wouldn't worry about z that much. Get what you can within your budget and bed size and you'll find your probably going to be OK.jmho:)

[Glen Monaghan]

Bed size, z height, tube power, red dot pointer, autofocus, et al... The importance of each feature is highly dependent on the individual application. If you don't have a known need, then the importance is low while it's high if you need it (yeah, simplistic, but true...)

In general, sure, it's nice to have bigger bed, greater z height, higher tube power, in-line red dot (well, maybe not autofocus, but then I just don't care for or use that...), but those things each add to your cost, and so you have to make tradeoffs (unless price is no issue). The only gotcha is that your wants/needs may change over time... I didn't want or need a bed bigger than 12x24 for two years but then wanted to do something bigger but couldn't. Ah well, it wasn't all that big a deal. Today, if I had the choice, I'd like to have a bit larger bed, but going to 36" would cramp my existing space and the "need" is infrequent enough that I'd be hard pressed to justify it. YMMV.

[David Somers]

I am the outlyer in the group. Z height was important for me and was one reason I chose the machine I did. I wanted to be able to use the laser on the rims of large bowls and whatnot. I can get more than 30" of Z height on my machine, more if I pull out the table. But that is far from normal for what people use a laser for. And, in the interest of full disclosure I feel I should say I have not tried this yet. But I have the excuse that someone borrowed my rotary device so I have not had a chance to modify it to do what I want yet. I have some pieces set aside to play with though and will try this out once I have the rotary back and have a chance to modify it.

I should also mention that my bed size is probably larger than I need at this point. But I bought that large a bed since it improves the resale of a machine in this area, and it was cheap to upsize. So why not. I do have plans to work on larger pieces as I gain confidence.

For what all that is worth!

<grin>

Dave

[Melanie Brooks]

Just in case you haven't made your purchase yet...
I purchased a 60watt laser, chiller, and rotary from Automation Technologies in late December as a 'work together package'. First off, the chiller is 220v, not 110v as it was supposed to be so it does not work with my current wiring. (I was specifically told that it would) So I will have to find a power inverter to run it. He will sell me one of course...
Second, the laser carriage (Y axis) stuttered and made horrible noise when returning to home position, and the table was severely askew. "John", who seems to be in charge there, was totally unfamiliar with the problem or the machine, even though I explained to him that it seemed to be a switch problem. He told me that I need to find an engineer to find and fix the problem. (Since I am not an engineer, I am apparently too stupid to deal with it...) I finally got lucky after going back and forth with him and threatening to return the laser, he let me talk to Tyler who seems to be the only one there who knows anything about their machines at all. He explained how to loosen the belt on the laser floor and manually re-level the table. I figured out how to adjust the trigger for the switch to stop the Y carriage from returning back off the cut area, and stop in an adequate position. (I guess I didn't have to hire an engineer after all)
I waited a couple weeks before trying out my rotary attachment, and couldn't figure out just how or where it was supposed to plug in. I called John again. I asked if I needed a different plug for the rotary to attach to the back board, and since he didn't know even which machine they sold me, let alone anything about their products, he let me speak to Tyler. As it turns out, they sold me an "old style" laser machine (4 wire stepper motor, as opposed to 3 wire) which is not compatible with this rotary, even though their website says specifically that this rotary is for their 60 watt machine. His options to me were to- 1 return the rotary, 2 return the rotary and to them and they will put in a new motor, or 3 they will send me a stepper motor and I can install it in the rotary. OK...if he can send me out the motor, which is the quickest option, I can rewire and solder it. Then the next day he says it is too hard to make it work, just return it to them and they will wire it. OK, fine. Now he says they cant do that either, I will need to get a different one.Then he won't answer my emails. Finally he responds and says it is Chinese New Year, and can't do anything til after Feb. 16th. I have emailed him twice since then, asked him to call me with absolutely no response, by phone or email. I called him, and he has a woman answering the phone to tell me he is unavailable.
There is another issue now with the engraver where it will only travel 2-6 inches forward while engraving and then stops and says "not enough room to expand". I can't even get anybody on the phone to discuss this or try to remedy it.
They have absolutely the WORST customer service and tech support of any company I have ever dealt with. The laser seems to work fine, when it works, but believe me I am kicking myself for not going with Rabbit Laser which was my other option. I figured I could upgrade to a Rabbit in a year or so if I could get my business off the ground. Well, that is not going to happen at this rate, since it was primarily aimed at the Virginia wine country where I live. So now I can do no boxes, no bottles, and nothing over 20x6 inches flat.
I hope this helps you with your purchase, and anyone else who is considering Automation Technologies Inc. as an option. If I get any resolution, I will update this post. If anyone has any help, info or advice I would gladly love to hear from you!!

[David Somers]

Melanie, That is certainly not comforting to hear. If you think you have some questions we can help with here on SMC you might start another thread and see if anyone can help you.

Dave.

[Bill George]

Start another Thread like David says. . When I purchased my Storm 2 years ago, John did not want to help either. His tech person did explain the software issue and I got it running.

[Keith Sherwin]

Sounds TYPICAL for the support one can expect from China!! Oh, I know, there are some good ones, but VERY FEW. I went through similar crap with my cheap - POS machine, but it was Alan not John (doubt either is real name). The reason they don't know what machine you have is - they don't actually ship it, it is usually shipped from another company.
The good thing is, your problems can be fixed and you will end up with a machine that is usable, but probably no faster than 200 mm/s or you will start missing steps. That is my final problem, but I ordered a more powerful motor for my Y-Axis & should have it soon. If not, then I will have to order new HiWin style rails. But, for me it is one step at a time.

Sounds to me like you still have some limit switch problems. As for the motor, do you need a 3 wire or a 4 wire motor? They are available for very little money or you might be able to just rewire the motor. They are usually a NEMA 17, 42 series.
A step-up (110v to 220v) transformer of the correct current rating is fairly easy to purchase in the USA, but they are heavy.

As Dave said, if you start a different thread, I am sure the group will be able to help you get it working.

[David Somers]

Hey Keith,

I realize you are speaking very broadly, but at least for me, my experience with a direct from China laser and CNC was very good and although the machines were not perfectly operational on arrival they worked diligently with me to correct problems and answer questions. It was a good experience for my needs and I would buy from them again. I would even say some of the folks there are friends and we may have an opportunity to host them someday if their plans to visit the US come to fruition. Certainly not everyone's experience. But much depends on the class of machine purchased and the experience and structure of the company you buy from.

Regarding your comment about the 110V to 220V transformer. I do use a 220V voltage regulator to protect my laser. I probably have my house and the circuits adequately protected that I dont need it. But I figured it was not expensive and at worst would be neutral in its effect, and should help protect my electronics.

Dave

[Bill George]

The really sad thing about it, Melanie did not order from China but one of the Sawmill Creek Advertisers. Automation Technologies out of Chicago and they sound as if once we get your money the Warranty ends? I purchased my Storm laser from then and had issues with the software set up and lucky the Tech was able to answer my one and only question.

[Jerome Stanek]

Just in case you haven't made your purchase yet...
I purchased a 60watt laser, chiller, and rotary from Automation Technologies in late December as a 'work together package'. First off, the chiller is 220v, not 110v as it was supposed to be so it does not work with my current wiring. (I was specifically told that it would) So I will have to find a power inverter to run it. He will sell me one of course...
Second, the laser carriage (Y axis) stuttered and made horrible noise when returning to home position, and the table was severely askew. "John", who seems to be in charge there, was totally unfamiliar with the problem or the machine, even though I explained to him that it seemed to be a switch problem. He told me that I need to find an engineer to find and fix the problem. (Since I am not an engineer, I am apparently too stupid to deal with it...) I finally got lucky after going back and forth with him and threatening to return the laser, he let me talk to Tyler who seems to be the only one there who knows anything about their machines at all. He explained how to loosen the belt on the laser floor and manually re-level the table. I figured out how to adjust the trigger for the switch to stop the Y carriage from returning back off the cut area, and stop in an adequate position. (I guess I didn't have to hire an engineer after all)
I waited a couple weeks before trying out my rotary attachment, and couldn't figure out just how or where it was supposed to plug in. I called John again. I asked if I needed a different plug for the rotary to attach to the back board, and since he didn't know even which machine they sold me, let alone anything about their products, he let me speak to Tyler. As it turns out, they sold me an "old style" laser machine (4 wire stepper motor, as opposed to 3 wire) which is not compatible with this rotary, even though their website says specifically that this rotary is for their 60 watt machine. His options to me were to- 1 return the rotary, 2 return the rotary and to them and they will put in a new motor, or 3 they will send me a stepper motor and I can install it in the rotary. OK...if he can send me out the motor, which is the quickest option, I can rewire and solder it. Then the next day he says it is too hard to make it work, just return it to them and they will wire it. OK, fine. Now he says they cant do that either, I will need to get a different one.Then he won't answer my emails. Finally he responds and says it is Chinese New Year, and can't do anything til after Feb. 16th. I have emailed him twice since then, asked him to call me with absolutely no response, by phone or email. I called him, and he has a woman answering the phone to tell me he is unavailable.
There is another issue now with the engraver where it will only travel 2-6 inches forward while engraving and then stops and says "not enough room to expand". I can't even get anybody on the phone to discuss this or try to remedy it.
They have absolutely the WORST customer service and tech support of any company I have ever dealt with. The laser seems to work fine, when it works, but believe me I am kicking myself for not going with Rabbit Laser which was my other option. I figured I could upgrade to a Rabbit in a year or so if I could get my business off the ground. Well, that is not going to happen at this rate, since it was primarily aimed at the Virginia wine country where I live. So now I can do no boxes, no bottles, and nothing over 20x6 inches flat.
I hope this helps you with your purchase, and anyone else who is considering Automation Technologies Inc. as an option. If I get any resolution, I will update this post. If anyone has any help, info or advice I would gladly love to hear from you!!


Sorry to hear about your troubles with them but I had just the opposite I had a controller go out and John sent me a new one and had me send the old one back after I received the replacement. Kyle was great at explaining what I ad to do to get it running correctly.

[Keith Sherwin]

Right you are Dave, some Chinese companies are really good and sell quality products. Unfortunately way too many (especially the cheaper ones) are bad and you can't believe half the lies they tell you! At least that is what my Chinese friends tell me. Don't expect AliExpress to do much if anything for you after you get lied to by the crappy ones. I was very fortunate to get $700 refunded but it took several months to get that. Not sure what E-Bay does.

Bill, they might have an office in Chicago, but it seems they are just another Chinese company with an office in the states. If they are closed for Chinese New year, that pretty much says where they are. I would think there would be some recourse as they are selling from Chicago. Very sad that they choose to dis their customers. Guess they just want to loose future sales.

[Kev Williams]

Back to the 220 volt chiller- don't bother buying a transformer, all you need to do is wire a 220 volt receptacle that fits the plug on the chiller to a typical 15 or 20 amp 220 volt circuit breaker. If you can't find a receptacle to fit the plug, then buy a receptacle and plug that matches, and change the plug on the chiller too.

[Jerome Stanek]

Bill, they might have an office in Chicago, but it seems they are just another Chinese company with an office in the states. If they are closed for Chinese New year, that pretty much says where they are. I would think there would be some recourse as they are selling from Chicago. Very sad that they choose to dis their customers. Guess they just want to loose future sales.[/QUOTE]


Just because John celebrates Chinese New Year is not any reason to assume that he is in China. We celebrate St Patricks day and we are not in Ireland. I picked up my laser from him at his Chicago office and while I was there he had Kyle show me how to run it. Like I said before I have had very good service from them. I am not saying that Melanie is wrong but maybe John will take care of this.

[Melanie Brooks]

Ok... just an update... John can order me a 4 wire motor from China for an additional $89 and I'll have to rewire the rotary, or replace it with an appropriate one after I return this one to hi, but... it won't be here for 2-3 months!
How hard is it to replace 3 wire motor with a 4 wire on a rotary? Since it seems to just be a matter of a different motor I can't imagine it would be difficult.
Keith, if I sent a picture could you confirm the motor? I have a 3 wire, but need 4 wire. The writing is chinese, of course...:(
Sorry to hijack this thread.. I'll try to create a new one!

[Gary Hair]

Ok... just an update... John can order me a 4 wire motor from China for an additional $89 and I'll have to rewire the rotary, or replace it with an appropriate one after I return this one to hi, but... it won't be here for 2-3 months!
How hard is it to replace 3 wire motor with a 4 wire on a rotary? Since it seems to just be a matter of a different motor I can't imagine it would be difficult.
Keith, if I sent a picture could you confirm the motor? I have a 3 wire, but need 4 wire. The writing is chinese, of course...:(
Sorry to hijack this thread.. I'll try to create a new one!

Does the motor have any numbers on it? Maybe a part number or any specs? Post a pic if so.

[Keith Sherwin]

Melanie, I will send you a PM with my email.

[Melanie Brooks]

Thanks Keith Sherwin for all your help! After many photos and research we were(no, he was) able to figure out which motor I'll need for the rotary, at less than 1/3 the price, and 2-3 weeks instead of 2-3 months! Motor and connectors are already ordered...
I'll keep you all updated with progress.
Thanks for the help and suggestions, guys! I'll probably still contact Ray Scott with a few questions. I just kinda feel like a traitor doing so!:rolleyes:

[Bill George]

To buy a Chinese laser from his completion and then expect Ray to provide free Tech support is kind of like a slap in the face. Automation Technologies should replace your rotary for free with the correct one you ordered and without any cost to you. They are a Sawmill Creek advertiser you should expect that service as a minimum.

[Keith Sherwin]

Automation Technologies should replace your rotary for free with the correct one you ordered and without any cost to you. They are a Sawmill Creek advertiser you should expect that service as a minimum.

ABSOLUTELY! That is what a reputable company would do. To supply the incorrect part, then charge extra money for the correct part is extremely pathetic & says a lot about the dealer. Certainly should make others think about purchasing from them.
Might be the other Keith :) should contact them!

[Keith Winter]

Which chiller did you buy? Does it have a 110v option, or does it only come in 220v would be my first question? Possibly they could swap you out, not sure if they will be willing or not with an import, but worth trying or worth asking for a discount off the price paid for the mistake.

[Keith Sherwin]

I believe her major problem is the Rotary. It had a 3 wire stepper and connector that was supposed to fit in to the 4 wire socket. Totally wrong.
One would expect that if they are selling something, all the parts would be integrated and actually work together. I used to think I had a POS from China, at least all my parts fit together and work (sort of)! She certainly is in a much worse position than I am & she bought in America expecting support & service! And it appears she is getting neither. That is very discouraging for a NOOB.

I am not sure how the chiller problem is coming along as well as her other problems with the machine. The "Other" Keith I was referring to was Otten - back on the Aspire board where I used to be quite active, the joke was - "The other Keith"

[Scott Shepherd]

To buy a Chinese laser from his completion and then expect Ray to provide free Tech support is kind of like a slap in the face. Automation Technologies should replace your rotary for free with the correct one you ordered and without any cost to you. They are a Sawmill Creek advertiser you should expect that service as a minimum.

I thought so too, but I don't see their banner ads any longer.

[Keith Outten]

Automation Technologies are no longer an advertiser here. If they were I would be able to help resolve problems.

The sponsors link on the blue menu bar at the top of every page is automatically updated and accurate, you can click on the link to see which companies are actively supporting SawMill Creek. You can also click on the link in my signature.
.

[Bert Kemp]

I did clic the sponsors link and got a blank page:confused:





Automation Technologies are no longer an advertiser here. If they were I would be able to help resolve problems.

The sponsors link on the blue menu bar at the top of every page is automatically updated and accurate, you can click on the link to see which companies are actively supporting SawMill Creek. You can also click on the link in my signature.
.

[David Somers]

Same here Bert. I checked my settings and didnt spot any obvious cause for it in there. I get the same results if I click on the link in Keith Outten's signature as well.

Dave

[Scott Shepherd]

Probably because it's being blocked by a plug in on your browser.

[Bruce Page]

I did clic the sponsors link and got a blank page:confused:
Try turning off your adblocker if you're running one.

[Keith Sherwin]

Works for me.

[David Somers]

Bruce,

Nada....still blank. Not a biggie for me. Will try later this evening and dig a bit and see if I find the cause.

Dave

[Bert Kemp]

Thank You works now



Try turning off your adblocker if you're running one.

[David Somers]

Bruce,

Not sure what happened but roughly 2 hours after turning off the ad block for this site I started seeing the advertisers list. Go figure.

Thanks!

[Bruce Page]

Bruce,

Not sure what happened but roughly 2 hours after turning off the ad block for this site I started seeing the advertisers list. Go figure.

Thanks!


Computers!

[Melanie Brooks]

I agree. That IS what I expected, but he won't consider that as an option.

[Melanie Brooks]

True, Keith, the rotary is the biggest issue. I have accepted the fact that I'll need to either run a 220 line or get a converter for the chiller (3000) but a 5 gal bucket is working fine for now. I've already received the new plug for the rotary, and am waiting for the new motor to arrive from ebay. $30 and 3 weeks without Automation Tech sure beats $89 and 3 months WITH their help!
Thank you!

[George M. Perzel]

Melanie; When I bought my Chines laser they sent me a converter box which transforms 110VAC to 220VAC Its about 4x10x8 inches and weighs about 10 pounds. It's brand new-never used- and I have no use for it.. You can have it for the cost of shipping (Ny to VA). Best Regards, George Laserarts