High end drill presses... Do they exist?

[Michael Koons]

General question to the group about drill presses. I've got a cheap old bench top model and feel like it's time to upgrade. In researching, I keep coming up with the same types of results. Things like Powermatic, Delta, Grizzly, etc... I also find that there are older machines out there like the Powermatic 1150A or 1200. Lately I've been upgrading my tools and buying the best quality I can find. While on table saws, jointers, planers and bandsaws, the sky seems to be the limit with options like Felder, Minimax, Altendorf, Martin, etc..., the same doesn't seem to be the case for drill presses.

In the past, I have gotten burned with lesser quality machines and when I do, I almost always cease buying anything from those manufacturers.

Am I missing something when it comes to high end, high quality drill presses? What options are out there for people willing to pay for higher quality and longevity? Maybe it's time to jump into the "high quality, used machine" pool.

[Ben Rivel]

From my research, once you get to the Delta 18-900L or Powermatic PM2800B (~$1000-1500) range the next step is up to a mill which is a different beast entirely. I went with the Delta 18-900L and love it. I cant Imagine needing any more precision or quality for the woodworking and limited metal working I do.

[Michael Koons]

Thanks Ben. It seems like there are a lot of happy Delta owners out there. I have had mixed success with Delta in the past and that's why I'm hesitant to pull the trigger. I know many of the brands I mentioned, there are many happy owners. But my understanding is that they are also all made in Taiwan and when I can avoid asian made tools, I generally do. Again, not for everyone for sure, but it is my preference.

[Charles Taylor]

You said high end...

http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Floor-Bench-Drill-Presses?searchterm=Clausing&navid=12107596+4294874259
(http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Floor-Bench-Drill-Presses?searchterm=Clausing&navid=12107596+4294874259)
For me, high-quality used is the ticket.

[Ben Rivel]

Thanks Ben. It seems like there are a lot of happy Delta owners out there. I have had mixed success with Delta in the past and that's why I'm hesitant to pull the trigger. I know many of the brands I mentioned, there are many happy owners. But my understanding is that they are also all made in Taiwan and when I can avoid asian made tools, I generally do. Again, not for everyone for sure, but it is my preference.
I hear ya. Avoiding the asian made tools is hard these days if you are buying new. Pretty much everything is made over there. Your gonna have to buy used or really high end to get new and not made in some asian country.

[Carroll Courtney]

Same thoughts as Chuck,would have to check out the metal working DP such as the Clausing,but its only as good as the tooling and the operator.Always wanted a Clausing but that price is way out of my budget.Don't hurt to dream

[paul cottingham]

I had two DP's one a General benchtop, and the other a Delta 220. I sold the General. I cant imagine needing any more of a DP. The only issue i have with it is the mechanism for raising and lowering the table.

bear in mind I am the least anal woodworker I know.

[Tom M King]

https://www.ohiopowertool.com/p-12442-jet-j-a4008m-pf4-26-arboga-gear-head-drill-press-with-powerfeed-440v-3ph-354041.aspx?CAWELAID=120016460000027315&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiA2IO0BRDXmLndksSB0WgSJADNKqqopTq_Akmk X-pyx4WPtxuHZbh4CJDI8IJ4PQ7j9xBD2xoC3srw_wcB

these aren't supposed to be too bad either: http://www.penntoolco.com/dake-drill-presses-foor-model-variable-speed-sb-32v/?gclid=CjwKEAiA2IO0BRDXmLndksSB0WgSJADNKqqoCxlq0Gd FHPz9oRTm4TKpZRSkA1F6cyG5LUgny2LIBhoC-Mbw_wcB

[David Malicky]

Clausings are great if you can afford and find one in good condition.
The Delta 18-900 is great as long as you get a good one (I wouldn't want to deal with Delta service, based on recent reports). We got ours from HD-online (on sale for $900 last summer) so we could return it if it was bad. It wasn't.
Actually most machine tools are from mainland China, where quality is variable by factory. Taiwan tools are considerably better and more consistent than China, based on many of each that I've used. Machine tools are a national priority there, and it shows.
Edit: IIRC, the Dake DPs are now Asian, but I would assume high quality. Arboga is staggeringly priced. A Taiwan Rong-Fu is more reasonable for that style machine, but overkill for wood:
http://www.emachinetool.com/new-machines/drills/drill-press/rong-fu-drill-press-rf-40hc

[Ryan Mooney]

A couple more in the same basic class range as the drake. No personal experience with either, but they were on the "list" when I was doing the same research a few years back

http://www.palmgren.com/category/Drills-and-Taps

http://www.ellissaw.com/Drill-Presses/43/drill-press-9400

[Susumu Mori]

Hi Mike,

I was also looking for a high-end drill press but I came to conclusion that such things don't exist in a reasonable price range for hobbyists.
I ended up in buying a milling machine, which is definitely a higher end in terms of price, but it has some limitations as a wood drill press.

For table saws, bandsaws, cordless drills, etc. we always have options to buy Europeans (Festool, Hammer, Minimax, Felder, etc). Their price usually starts where US-brand-Asian-made products ends and where real-US-but-for-industrial (Like Northfields) products start. Choices are always welcome. Oddly, we don't have European offer for DP. I don't understand why.

As I get older, I sort of fed up with low-cost oversea products and it is sad to see less and less US-made products in affordable ranges. It seems, except for non-consumer industrial things, they all went to Asia. While we mourn over it, we are also complaining that US-made products are overpriced (just like the recent thread over Woodpecker products) and don't want to pay premium for that. So, ultimately, I guess we are the reason.....

[CPeter James]

I like the Delta 12-2** series from the 40s & 50s. They are a 17", very heavy with a great spindle bearing design. They came with a number of different options including foot feed, power feed and two different sets of pulleys. I prefer the slow speed pulley set. My present machine has the large table, a 1 hp three phase motor with a VFD and the slow speed pulley set. The large spindle pulley gives great torque on the spindle for large bits and the VFD give infinate speeds. I have Jacobs 14N ball bearing chuck and this machine has the power down feed. My last one had the foot feed option, Handy if you want to hold something with two hands. The one in the photo cost $500. We did replace the bearings, but they were not expensive. This machine was designed to run 24/7 in a production environment and is good for decades in most sops without and additional maintenance. The table tilts and the swivel in on a ball thrust bearing and the raising mechanism is silky smooth.

328077

[Cary Falk]

I would guess that Clausing is still pretty high end. I was looking for a used 20" or a PM 1200. I found a used PM1200 for slightly more then what the new PM goes for.

[glenn bradley]

They are out there. For me the $500 to $4500 jump to see any real increase in quality (as opposed to just features) isn't realistic. Although I understand the tendency to 86 a brand when you get burned, brand loyalty and consistency doesn't really play in our global market right now. Some folks make a good lathe, some make a good tablesaw.

If I were required to make an under $4000 decision today I would go with the Delta 18-900 even though I have plenty of reasons to be ticked off at Delta. In defense of the current folks running Delta, it is not the same group as those who recently ran it into the ground. If I were the people trying to breathe respectability back into the Delta products I would have changed the name completely. The stigma is pretty severe.

[Michael Koons]

Generally agreed on the "brand loyalty" issue Glenn, but only to a point. There are some brands I will NEVER buy again due to poor service or not standing behind a product. In the case of Delta, I just can't get over the experience I had with a cheaply built jointer and planer I've owned in the past. When I look at Delta's product line (bench jointer, lunch box planer, portable table saws, etc...), I'm hard pressed to believe their targeting the high end hobbyist or professional shop.

But to be honest, that's why I put the question out to this group.

[Bill Adamsen]

This question comes up from time to time, and I will pitch in that I love my variable speed (Reeves mechanism) Clausing. It is a 15" model from the 1970's, is 220 VAC single-phase (the 1688). It is similar to the Powermatic VS 1150 model. Should you choose to look at used machines, just be aware that there are a lot of different models with different options (step pulley vs variable speed, MT vs JT, bench vs floor, tilt vs oil table). Typically the step pulley models offer a slower low speed with the older models. These floor drills are quite heavy at 300 - 350 pounds. That makes for an unwieldy (and top heavy) machine to move around.

To my thinking, performance is really a measure of the runout and chuck. About the best you can expect from an inexpensive drill press is about .0015. Much worse than .003 and you might want to look elsewhere. Often poorly seated chucks are the issue ... it pays to remove and reseat if testing. A Jacob's ball-bearing chuck (or similar) is a must.

[David Malicky]

There are European DPs (Arboga, Solberga, Strands, Alzmetall, Knuth, Flott...), but they are rare in the US and at least as expensive as Clausing.

[Jim German]

I wanted a high end DP and what got instead was a Bridgeport milling machine. Its got vertical travel than you could ever need. I got a really nice keyless chuck for it and its got less runout than you could ever want. I've also found it quite useful for cutting mortises and some other random stuff with router bits. I paid $1500 for mine, and its in pretty good shape. It also comes with a DRO which like a Wixey gauge in three directions accurate to 0.0005", makes it very easy to line things up properly. As a bonus if you ever need to do any machining on metal, well thats what they were designed for!

The only problem with them is the size and weight. Mine weighs 2200lbs and takes up a fairly significant amount of floor space.

[Allan Speers]

https://www.ohiopowertool.com/p-12442-jet-j-a4008m-pf4-26-arboga-gear-head-drill-press-with-powerfeed-440v-3ph-354041.aspx?CAWELAID=120016460000027315&CAGPSPN=pla&gclid=CjwKEAiA2IO0BRDXmLndksSB0WgSJADNKqqopTq_Akmk X-pyx4WPtxuHZbh4CJDI8IJ4PQ7j9xBD2xoC3srw_wcB



OMG - that beast weighs 3,000 lbs !

How is that even possible?

[Andrew Joiner]

The new Grizzly G0779 and G0784 look good on paper. I'd get a runout tolerance on them from Grizzly if I was considering a new drill press.

[Bruce Page]

OMG - that beast weighs 3,000 lbs !

How is that even possible?

Typo with one too many zeros? My full size milling machine doesn't weigh 3000 lbs

[David Malicky]

G0779 will have tiny runout -- that is an RF45-clone head, from a mill/drill. But it's China quality, so noisy gears among the usual issues. The Rong-Fu version is from Taiwan, good quality at higher $.

[Bruce Page]

The new Grizzly G0779 and G0784 look good on paper. I'd get a runout tolerance on them from Grizzly if I was considering a new drill press.
The G0779 does look good.

[Bill Adamsen]

That Grizzly gear head drill is a monster at 706 pounds with 1-1/4" capacity in steel. But the spindle travel is just 5".

[Erik Loza]

My colleague has a Knuth drill press. Was in the same boat a few years back; could not find a real Euro-made unit at any reasonable price. I believe the Knuth is made in Taiwan but he speaks highly of it.

Erik

[Dick Strauss]

The Ohio Power Tool Jet says the shipping weight is 820lbs but says 3000 down below. I assume the 820 shipping weight is closer to correct.

[Tom M King]

I guess they fill the column with spent uranium to get the weight up.

[glenn bradley]

My colleague has a Knuth drill press. Was in the same boat a few years back; could not find a real Euro-made unit at any reasonable price. I believe the Knuth is made in Taiwan but he speaks highly of it.

Erik

Thanks a lot Erik :D. I just lost a half an hour wandering around the Knuth site.

[Bruce Page]

The Ohio Power Tool Jet says the shipping weight is 820lbs but says 3000 down below. I assume the 820 shipping weight is closer to correct.

Just noticed that the description under the picture is for the 3000lb Jet JTM-1050EVS milling machine. It has nothing to do with the drill press in the picture. :confused: :rolleyes:http://www.jettools.com/us/en/p/jtm-1050evs-230-mill-with-acu-rite-200s-dro-with-x-and-y-axis-powerfeeds/690406

[Scott T Smith]

A couple more in the same basic class range as the drake. No personal experience with either, but they were on the "list" when I was doing the same research a few years back

http://www.palmgren.com/category/Drills-and-Taps

http://www.ellissaw.com/Drill-Presses/43/drill-press-9400

I have the Ellis 9400 drill press in my metal shop, and the current Delta (18-900L?) in my wood shop. I am very pleased with both units.

i also have a vertical mill in my metal shop. It would not be my first choice for routine woodworking drilling requirements.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

I went used, a 1958 Powermatic 1200. Could not be any happier over a drill press.

[David Malicky]

For a new machine, this would be a good option above the 18-900L, and below Clausing:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=126-2655
Turn-Pro is Enco's store brand of Rong-Fu (Taiwan). 20" swing, 6.5" quill travel, 300-2000 rpm VS. Enco has 20%+ off periodically, stackable, occasionally including machinery.

[jack forsberg]

I like my little Jones and Shipman hand scraped bench top press.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/DeltaVFD008_zpsb598b95f.jpg


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/DeltaVFD007_zps2ec953e0.jpg

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/js006.jpg

by far my fav is the older Delta 17" with foot feed and vfd.

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad111/tool613/wadkin/DeltaVFD001_zps74e5a031.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIEwVt3kswU

[Wakahisa Shinta]

I recently went through this, wanting an accurate DP. Yeah! Anything is more accurate than a bench-top Ryobi bought used. Naturally, my attention turned toward using a mill as a DP. Very little information there that I were able to find online. I concluded that I would prefer to have both.;) So, my wife bought me a Delta 18-900L. It has about 0.0015 quill runout. Good enough for wood. A reason for going with the Delta is my seemingly bottomless capacity in wanting a better mill. I were looking at bench-top mills from Grizzly, then old knee mills, Bridgeport, then I discovered bench-top CNC, then a Rong Fu RF45 (+/- CNC), then Industrial Hobbies, then Tomarch, then HAAS. Before I know it, the machine price went through the roof. I slammed on the brake, bought the Delta, and still looking at the latter three brands.

The words "high end" have no limit! If you get one of them high end DPs, take lots of pictures and post them! We can vicariously live through your experience.

[Mike Heidrick]

A drill press I liked and should have never sold was my Steel City 17. Id own one again.
I have a King Seeley Gold Craftsman that is old skool nice and cool to use - drilled out some ford tractor weights on it the other day with 3/4 s&d so it gets it done. I also drill out some alum weekly with a 800+ lb 1987 RF30 that I really like, and use a 1987 4500lb 1050 millport knee mill that is cnc centroid ema42 servo outfitted. So prob slim chane for another steel city 17 but i sure like them.

[pat warner]

A lot to be said about the quality of drill presses and their features.
Some presses are bad news whatever their signature might be.
(& signature here means both brand name and its drilling character.)

But medium grade to those that have ~.001" run out , are another story.
Key here is material prep of the sample (being drilled), a straight flat fence, and how you isolate the work. With 12 escape routes, the work can easily move & be mis-drilled. Moreover, drilling technique plays a major role. RPM, drill point design, quality & wear, and feed rate, if mismatched to the work material, can have mixed results.

The hole maybe scuffed from swarf, not round, a different diameter than the drill and so on.
If the work is not flat or prepared well, all common samples will have their holes on different coordinates. And if you neglect its (the work) immobility, you may pull it off the table, spin it, and destroy it and the drill.

Bottom line: It's easy to condemn a passable drill press if you don't have the skills to use it.
And if your measuring skills & tools are minimal, (& hole to hole distances and diameters are not the easiest things to measure), you don't know how well you're drilling.

[Larry Fox]

Went through same search a while back and concluded, as several others have mentioned, that they are called milling machines. Went with the same setup as CPeter had only with an Albreicht chuck and it does the job but it still has some inherent design flaws that limit it's precision.

[Homer Faucett]

I have the same 1943 model Delta Drill press as Jack. Put a $100 VFD on it after I bought the press at an auction for $250. Great press.

[tony kessler]

For my money you cant go wrong with a quality and well rebuilt older drill press. I have a fully restored DP220 and love. its solid, accurate, and has that vintage tool charm and character.

[Keith Hankins]

I did not notice your budget, but I have the Powermatic 2800B love it. I'm working on a review and will post soon.

[jack forsberg]

If i was to go vintage the Buffalo 18" with all the extras is the boom . MT3 spindle got it for $85 for a friend.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISST6evidVA

[Ryan Mooney]

Bottom line: It's easy to condemn a passable drill press if you don't have the skills to use it.

Yup, and junk or improperly sharpened drill bits can make a good press less impressive as well.

[Wakahisa Shinta]

How about these drill presses? http://www.alzmetall.de/alzmetall/index.php?id=bohrmaschinen&L=1

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIHVVN_ekWA of how some of them are made.

[Joe Calhoon]

Thanks for the link and video. Those are nice drill presses. The Germans take manufacturing to a high level.

Ayen is another German company that makes pillar type drills specifically for woodworking.
http://www.ayen.com/produkte/maschinen/auslegerbohrmaschinen/87-abmh_66b.html

I have a 20 year old Ayen that will reach about 36"

Also have a late 40s Delta 220 that I really like. I picked that up from an older hobby woodworker that inherited it from his dad. Everything is simple, sets up easy even with no table crank and accurate with no runout. Its a little weak for large drilling though. I am on the lookout for a Delta 17" like Jack has.

328778
328780
328779
328781
328782

[Shiraz Balolia]

If money was no object, this is a great drill press that we added for 2016:

http://grizzly.com/products/Variable-Speed-Gearhead-Drill-Press-With-Cross-Slide-Table/G0808

[Jim Becker]

Technatool (http://www.teknatool.com/), the Nova lathe folks have a new drill press coming out that looks quite interesting. (announced recently) Direct drive, screen control with intelligence to help you choose the optimal speed for a given drill bit, etc. Modern look, too, similar to their lathe heads.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAYqM-SV0m8

[David Malicky]

If money was no object, this is a great drill press that we added for 2016:

http://grizzly.com/products/Variable-Speed-Gearhead-Drill-Press-With-Cross-Slide-Table/G0808
Thank you, Shiraz. Had that come out a year ago, we would have bought it instead of our RF45, and your price is reasonable considering the features and Taiwan quality. The power lift and VFD are excellent -- we were looking for both of those, and couldn't find either on a Taiwan machine. It looks like this is made by Rong Fu? (My only suggestion is to equip it with nicer XY handles -- RF's standard handles are out of place on a machine this nice, but those are easy to retrofit later.) I think you have a home run!

[Michael Koons]

Looks very cool Jim. Would love to see it come out. The articles and video are from 2013.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Thank you, Shiraz. Had that come out a year ago, we would have bought it instead of our RF45, and your price is reasonable considering the features and Taiwan quality. The power lift and VFD are excellent -- we were looking for both of those, and couldn't find either on a Taiwan machine. It looks like this is made by Rong Fu? (My only suggestion is to equip it with nicer XY handles -- RF's standard handles are out of place on a machine this nice, but those are easy to retrofit later.) I think you have a home run!

We are on the same page! I had asked for better and larger hand wheels. The main shipment may have those, but we relied on the prototype we had on hand for the stock photos. That machine is going to my shop as soon as the techs are done writing the manual on it.

Thanks.

[Bruce Page]

Technatool (http://www.teknatool.com/), the Nova lathe folks have a new drill press coming out that looks quite interesting. (announced recently) Direct drive, screen control with intelligence to help you choose the optimal speed for a given drill bit, etc. Modern look, too, similar to their lathe heads.

I will some times sand dowels to size in the drill chuck, it sounds like it would shut down if it senses your hand to close, or, if you're drilling into something it doesn't like. It's a little too smart for me.
I do like the direct drive.

[Phillip Gregory]

We are on the same page! I had asked for better and larger hand wheels. The main shipment may have those, but we relied on the prototype we had on hand for the stock photos. That machine is going to my shop as soon as the techs are done writing the manual on it.

Thanks.

I bet your shop is pretty impressive with the equipment you have access to. Do you happen to have any pictures? :D

[roger wiegand]

Seems to me that the problem with 99% of drill presses are that they aren't designed for woodworking. I really don't care about 0.001" runout, what I want is a convenient way to clamp things down, square them up, achieve repetitive accuracy when drilling a series of holes, be able to drill holes 2" apart without having to rely on centering a bit on a pencil mark on the workpiece, etc. Seems I spend an inordinate amount of time building jigs to allow me to drill holes accurately, without any of the kinds of fences and stops that are routinely built in as part of table saws or miter saw stations. Give me a big table -- supporting an 8 ft long board on a 12" x 12" table is always a contest, a way to dial in a hole 3" from one edge and 4" from another without measuring and marking the workpiece and I'll be pretty happy. For bonus points give me a way to set depth of cut by other than trial and error--but I'd be happy with height adjustment that didn't work in 1/4" clunks.

I've built jigs that let me do a lot of these things (except I still always have the problem of being unable to neatly or reproducibly clamp my jig to the table on my Delta DP--the non-flat bottom of the table always means the jig is in danger of slipping), but if someone who designs the wonderfully clever systems we see on other tools build a woodworking-optimized drill press for under about $2K I'd buy it in a heartbeat. My problem is not with the precision of the spindle or the ability to control rpms to +/- 1, but rather with just being able to position and hold the material so that I can readily get the hole where I want it without an hour of fiddling, that is lost when some part of the jury rig slips.

[Michael Koons]

Bingo Roger. I think what I need is a drill press like you describe with reasonable drilling depth and speed variations and a true quality build. I don't need a laser, I don't need digital readouts. I'd go as far to say I'd pay more than $2k if it met the quality requirements.

[pat warner]

" but rather with just being able to position and hold the material so that I can readily get the hole where I........."
***************************************
Lots of iterations, but I got there.
A 2-stage drill press fence (http://patwarner.com/images/dp_fence_pixpg1.jpg) with a quick-stop.
With it, I can drill to ~.001" on center without surprises.
And I use quick acting toggles, hold downs and crowders, to keep the work immobilized.
I look forward to using it rather then: "Oh no,, not another boogered dislocated hole."

[Jim German]

Thats an awesome looking fence. However for $1285 you could just get a used Bridgeport with a DRO.

[roger wiegand]

"
Lots of iterations, but I got there.
A 2-stage drill press fence (http://patwarner.com/images/dp_fence_pixpg1.jpg) with a quick-stop.
"

Beautiful piece of equipment! How do you reproducibly position it with respect to the drill? I haven't figured out how to deal with way the table rotates on the pillar, throwing all of the measurements out the window.

[pat warner]

" how to deal with way the table rotates on ......."
*************************************************
If you change the table ht. or its rotation, for multiple operations on the same hole(s), you're looking for trouble. Rethink the schedule so there is only one table setting for one set of holes. Start x getting roughly the same length of drilling tools. Or drills of such a length that quill travel is not problem.
************************************************** ************
The fence pivots and slides on machined ways. It is anchored with a shoulder bolt on one end.
Starting out (calibration). Rotate the fence so it just touches a precision .500" steel dowel in a good chuck (mine = Albrecht). And lock/clamp the fence down. Now, with a .001" feeler gauge as a detector, screw the fence in & out (big knob) trapping the feeler between the fence face and the pin. When the feeler is slightly pinched you're no more than .0005" away from the pin. Your quill, given very little run-out, is now .250" from the quill center, a reasonable and known starting point.
There is ~1.5" of parallel travel in the slides. If you need more than the adjustment allows, start out with parallels to locate the pin further from the fence. Place the parallel between the pin & the fence. Done

[Rick Lizek]

Be careful with Delta. We had a 20 inch Delta drillpress and trunnions broke. It was only five years old part and the trunnions were discontinued. We got them through Renovo who been making discontinued delta parts .