Upgrading turning tools - need your insights.

[Alan Heffernan]

I am getting back into woodturning – bowls, pepper mills, and such. Turned in the past but didn't have great equipment. I now have a PM3520B setup and decent sharpening equipment (complete Tormek setup and an 8” Rikon 1 HP slow speed grinder with Wolverine set-up on the way). Unfortunately my existing turning tools are 40+ year old Craftsman stuff and the equivalent and in need of an upgrade for sure. I have very good access to both dry and green wood.

Since I now have the time and interest to use them, I will be upgrading my turning tools to a higher standard.

So if you were trying to get a good start in the $800 to $1000 range, what turning tools would you start with? I have been searching forums, reading and studying but would like some insights into what you would acquire with this specific budget in mind?

[Brian Kent]

Congratulations, and I would definitely call Thompson Lathe Tools and talk with Doug Thompson. You can tell him about your needs and ask his recommendations. If you don't need his high quality on some tools, he will let you know.

[Alan Trout]

I agree with Brian, Just give Doug a call. He will give you great advice. IMHO his tools are the best value going.

[John Keeton]

In addition to Doug, I would include Dave Schweitzer of D-Way Tools. Both are nice fellows, excellent turners and make quality tools. I have several from each.

[Bill Blasic]

I keep hearing this rumor that someone took their kid to Dave Schweitzer for lessons and borrowed all of Dave's tool designs and vendors and is now selling tools. Anybody know if this is true? Myself I prefer Thompson tools but I would not argue that Dave makes a quality tool.

[Tim Passmore]

+1 on the Thompson Lathe Tools. I own a variety of lathe tools and just recently got my first Thompson Tool-----i find it to hold an edge better than my other tools and is a very good value for the money. Enjoy the restart!

[Thom Sturgill]

Doug makes a fairly sharp, straight sided V and a wide U gouge. V11 steel I think, uses a high Vanadium content for toughness. He leaves extra metal below the flute for strength and stiffness.

Dave makes a more rounded parabolic or oval fluted gouge which I prefer. It provides a little more curve at the very nose and the curved sides are a little more forgiving if you grind the wing too straight. Dave also polishes the flute which Doug does not, and most of my Thompson gouges show definite ridges in the flute. These ridges translate to a slightly uneven edge unless you hone the flute, which is difficult after the hardening/tempering that Doug puts them through..

Both Doug and Dave have excellent steel and I cannot tell much difference in edge holding between them. Both are superior to HSS and greatly benefit from using a CBN wheel. Both sell unhandled for a savings if you turn/make your own handles and both sell aluminium handles.

Carter and Son use the same steel (different flute design - straight sided V), M42 as Dave and sell turned aluminium handles. Their gouges appear to be only straight sided V flutes, but are clean and polished. They have been accused of stealing information on Dave's suppliers. Their prices are quite a bit higher and they have been able to get several vendors to carry their line.

[David Delo]

Alan,

I don't know your what your turning and sharpening skill levels might be but looks as if you have most of the basics covered. Sounds as if your experience level might make you a quick study but can't answer that for sure. You might consider getting some less expensive HSS tools to experiment with different nose and wing angle profile grinds to determine which work best for you and the kind of work your doing. Nothing wrong with investing in the top quality Thompson or D-Way tools but why burn up good quality tool steel changing grinds until you find the one you like the best. Here's a pics of my bowl gouge arsenal currently. I like having a multiple of the grinds available so I don't usually have to sharpen during a job. I'm at the point where I'm a little settled in on what I like grind-wise but whenever I want to change or experiment, I grab one of the Hurricane's. A set is like 70 or 80 bucks and they aren't half bad. I've done the same type of thing for my spindle gouges and scraper profile collection.
328029

[Michael Schneider]

I have been away from turning for about 10 years, and in a similar situation as you. I will leave the exact tool selection to others, but you may wish to look at one or 2 CBN grinding wheels for your grinder.

I went with a couple of tools each from Thompson, D-Way, and they all seem to be very well made.

I did opt to try some basic carbide tools from azcarbide (www.azcarbide.com (http://www.azcarbide.com)). They are inexpensive, and I wanted to try them out, but will be focusing on traditional turning tools.

I still have to finish configuring my shop, so I don't have feedback for you yet, just some info on the path I am walking on at the moment.

Have fun,
Michael

[Bob Bergstrom]

I've never been one to worry about wasting steel learning to sharpen. I feel the time learning on mediocre steel is counter productive. When one goes back to turning the edge may dull before successful a training experience in proper cutting. I had a student using a PSI gouge that was fairly short. It had no temper left and would not produce a sharp cutting edge. He moved up to a D-way and his whole attitude about his skills improved. The parabolic flute provides a larger sweet spot at the cutting. The "V" shape of the Thompson will cut a thinner cut with a longer edge to slice the wood. The "U" provides the longest slicing edge when presented correctly, but also can result in a catch if rolled back too far.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I keep hearing this rumor that someone took their kid to Dave Schweitzer for lessons and borrowed all of Dave's tool designs and vendors and is now selling tools. Anybody know if this is true? Myself I prefer Thompson tools but I would not argue that Dave makes a quality tool.

'borrowed' is euphemistic for sure - walked off with the full hardening schedule and process as well. Some people are just ethically challenged and not worth doing business with. Even with the whole process laid out, the tools are not the same. Gotta wonder what the son will learn...

I prefer Dave's tools - the steel, flute shape and polish result in a cleaner edge that seems to last longer than anything else I've tried. Combine them with his CBN wheels and they seem to last forever. His specialty tools are great, too - the beading tools and tear drop tool make nice, clean beads; and the ultra-thin tapered parting tool takes a very small bite when parting off the top for lidded boxes where you want a perfect grain match.

[Ben Darrah]

Don't forget about chucks, classes, and other accessories. I like Thompson tools, but Sorby tools are good and cheaper to learn to sharpen. Hurricane tools and chucks are good for the price. I also recommend CBN wheels. They are easier to sharpen with (see other threads on the wheels) and are less likely to burn your steel.

[Jimmy Edwards]

Alan, FWIW when I started out I went Sorby, then when Doug Thompson started I bought many of his. Result is excellent tools in my shop. Also I recommend carbide cutters from azcarbide.com. I made my own carbide tools like the Hunters. Also have a 10" 600 grit CBN on my tormek and an 8" for my slow speed grinder. I no longer use the wolverine for anything. They say don't grind carbon steel on the CBN wheels. If you can, join a club. I'll bet there are some old pro sharpners in it.

[Alan Heffernan]

Thanks a million for all the responses. I have been busy studying and building myself a list.

Regarding chucks, I have both Oneway and Nova systems. I should also have mentioned that I have some carbide insert tools as well.

In addition to having fun building my list, I am studying metallurgy (M42 vs CPM10V).

Are most of you making your own handles? I am thinking that would be my preference. I have some great hickory, walnut and cherry stashed for this purpose.

Keep the insights and input coming - it is helpful and much appreciated.

[John Keeton]

I made many of my handles initially, but over time I have replaced most with D-Way handles. I like the ability to easily change or replace tools and I prefer the warmer feel in the winter as opposed to Doug's handles.

[Thom Sturgill]

I make my own handles similar to Dave's. Cindy Drozda has an article on her site that got me started. Runs about $10 per handle with the most expensive part being the tubing that covers the aluminium.

I use 1" x 1/8" sidewall aluminium tubing and 3/4" solid aluminium rod. Drill a 3-4" slug of the rod to size and epoxy it in the tube. It will often require some sanding to be able to insert it in the larger tube. Cover with 1 1/4" vinyl tubing (1" ID) with the mesh in it. Warm the tubing in hot water to allow it to slide over the aluminium. Drill and tap for two set screws. I either leave the butt end open or turn a wooden plug. Of weight is needed a plug and shot can be inserted from the butt end.

For smaller spindle gouges I use the 3/4" rod simply covered with smaller vinyl tubing.

[Pat Scott]

I prefer aluminum handles instead of making my own. I like the D-Way or Trent Bosch handles because they are easy to grip with the PVC wrap, and like John Keeton said they are not cold in the winter (although I have a heated shop). I have several Thompson handles and other wood handled tools, but every one of them are covered with the 3M cohesive wrap that Craft Supplies sells. I don't seem to have the grip that I used to, and a smooth unwrapped wood handle is harder to hold.

As for tools, this Forum does seem to be high on Thompson tools, but for me they are just OK. I own half a dozen Thompson gouges and scrapers, also D-Way, Robert Sorby, Hamlet, Glaser, and SB Tools gouges. I'm still forming an opinion on the SB Tools. My 1/2" gouge seems pretty good but I don't think the edge on my 5/8" gouge holds as well as other gouges. Maybe it was an early production run or something. I really like SB Tool handles.

My go-to bowl gouges that I reach for the most are a Glaser 5/8" Oval and Hamlet 1/2" parabolic flute. The Glaser (glaserhitec.com) holds an edge better than any other brand that I have (I have about 12 different bowl gouges). Glaser's are kind of pricey, but man is it nice. My Hamlet is my go-to when I want a smaller bowl gouge, and again I think it holds an edge and cuts cleaner than any other. The 1/2" SB Tools comes close to the Hamlet but the parabolic flute gives the Hamlet the edge.

Allen you might want to take a look at the Glenn Lucas Signature Gouges that Craft Supplies sells. They are made by Hamlet and have a parabolic flute. They do come handled, although you can buy them unhandled from Glenn's website. Put some cohesive wrap around the handle and you're set. I own two each of the 1/2" and 5/8" Hamlet bowl gouges, plus two or three Hamlet spindle gouges. My go-to spindle gouge is Hamlet (and my go-to smaller bowl gouge is Hamlet).

[Jeffrey J Smith]

As for handles, I've been using the quick-change inserts that Mike Hosaluk sells for a couple of years now - I've made about 6 handles using them. It's a good combination of a wooden handle with the ability to change out the tool or just sharpen without the handle in the way. I also use D-Way's handles and favor the PVC wrap. Been using them with Dave's quick-change knobs - it looks like it would get in the way, but in practice it isn't a problem. The tool can be released very quickly to touch up the edge.
I did splurge on one of the new Ellsworth designed collet handles that Robust Tools is selling. Haven't used it yet, but the balance and feel is great. I like the well shaped, contoured, unfinished wooden handles feel and the collet system works well. Might be overkill, but it is really nice.

[Alan Heffernan]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice folks. Thought I'd share where I landed.

I have bought a batch from Dave Schweitzer. I can imagine there are many more to come but combine this with my older stuff already in hand, I should be off to the races. I barely stayed within my budget! Here's the list:





1/2" Bowl Gouge (FN grind)






1/2" Bowl Gouge (Bottom Feeder)






1/2" Spindle Gouge






3/4" Skew






1 5/16 Skew






1 1/4" Scraper






Parting tool






D-way 5 piece beading tools set






Diamond tool






8", 12", and 16" handles w/bushings & knurled quick connect knobs





Of course there will be more to buy but this hopefully this will kick it off well.

I will likely make some handles of my own. Meanwhile, am working to get my sharpening equipment tuned and ready for work.

[John Keeton]

Great selection. My bet is that once you use the D-Way handles, you will want more instead of making them.