Suggestions for finish on Titanic Deck Chair

[Alan Lightstone]

OK, after lots of hard work, I'm finished the construction on my Titanic deck chair. It's made of Mahogany, and I need an outdoor finish to put on it.
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It's too large to fit in my spray booth (which is pretty large, and I really don't want to disassemble it. So basically, what I need a finish that's UV stable, and outdoor protective in South Florida sun (no simple task).

I'm also pretty lousy at brushing finishes (even though I do have some good brushes for that), so it's a real bummer that I can't spray it.

My go to finish for exterior surfaces has been General Finishes Exterior 450. I don't think that will enhance the look of the beautiful wood, though. I could, perhaps, use some BLO first, then follow with Exterior 450 (would I need a shellac coat as a barrier coat?)

Anyone have any good thoughts as to finishes that I can use? I've thought of Epifanes marine spar varnish, which I would think would last a few seasons, and I could apply as a wiping varnish (although, I believe I would have to thin it some) or with foam brushes, or (sigh) could be brushed on.

[Frederick Skelly]

That's a chair I'd be proud to have made Alan. What a beauty.

My thought is the one you already mentioned - marine varnish. It has a UV inhibitor and will last several years. I've used it multiple times with good results just brushing it on. The brand I use needs it's own special thinner - not sure why but it works well enough.

I wonder if you could rig a larger temporary spray booth by hanging plastic, tarps, etc? Be easier than brushing if you have the space.

[Sam Puhalovich]

Alan ... +1 on the marine varnish ... beside the UV inhibitor, you want to be CERTAIN that it has MILDEW protection.
Spray-ON: do-what-I-do ... I spray everything outside ... then bring inside to dry.
At times I have to make-up a quickie, screw-together, 2 wheel dolly to handle the larger items.
I've done 'king' headboards, dressers and desks that way.
The chair is a real beauty ... I wouldn't put paint on it ... and I certainly wouldn't want to coat it any-other-way than by spraying.

[Alan Lightstone]

Any suggestions as to Marine Spar Varnishes?

I'm somewhat confused by Epifanes web site, and their suggestions regarding solid wood vs plywood and which of their finishes to use.

They seem to suggest that you should use their Wood Finish Gloss for solid wood (with the added advantage of not having to sand between coats - like that a lot) as opposed to their Clear High Gloss Varnish. Yet, I thought that the Clear High Gloss Varnish is very commonly used on exterior surfaces of solid wood (e.g. exterior doors).

Also, I'm really not interested in a high gloss finish for this (I think it would look very much out of place), so I'm thinking that multiple coats of Wood Finish Gloss, followed by a coat or at most two of Wood Finish Matte would work well.

Anyone used these, or like this approach?

Also, assuming I could figure out a way to do this, isn't it a massive mess to spray varnish (I've never tried to spray it)?

[Art Mann]

My experience carving exterior wooden signs has been that any clear finish only looks good for a fairly short time before sanding and recoating - maybe as much as 2 years.

[John TenEyck]

I really like Epifanes, and it would look great on that chair, BUT applying it evenly would be very difficult with all those surfaces. Maintenance would be no fun either. I would consider something like Ipe' Oil or another exterior oil finish instead. You may have to clean and reapply it every year, but it's dead simple to apply and it won't build up and it won't ever crack or flake off.

John

[Jason Roehl]

Something waterproof to about 2 miles deep? ;)

Whatever you put on, I wouldn't just spray it--you need to work it in with a brush. And, what was hinted at above is correct--the more opaque an exterior finish is, the longer it will last in general. The closer to clear it is, the sooner it will fail.

[Mike Null]

I can lend no expertise on this subject but I think back to those magnificent high gloss mahogany Chris Craft motor boats of the last century.

I too would have been very proud to build such a beautiful chair.

[Alan Lightstone]

Something waterproof to about 2 miles deep? ;)


Believe me, after seeing that one of the remaining originals just sold for $150,000 this year, I've thought of finishing it, throwing it in Tampa Bay, and retrieving it for auction in a couple of years. Just need to figure out how to forge the provenance, LOL...

I'm now thinking that I'll dissassemble the leg rest, and then can barely fit it in my spray booth, so I can use my HVLP gun and explosion proof exhaust fan, so I have more options for finishing it.

However, spraying varnish????? Isn't that a huge mess and supposedly a no-no?

[John TenEyck]

If I were bound and determined to use a spray finish, it would not be an oil based one. The over spray will stick to everything it lands on. You'll have the world's largest fly paper trap! Of the products you listed, I'd use GF's Exterior 450 if I wanted to spray. I've been looking at a couple of cheap poplar planter boxes outside my local Rockler store. They were finished with Exterior 450 and have been out in the sun and rain for about 8 months now. They have not weathered at all yet as far as I can tell. One guy I know in CO claims it will survive 5+ years at 8000 foot elevation (lots of UV exposure) before requiring maintenance. My own experience with Epifanes says it's far better to scuff sand and apply a new coat every year, as they recommend, than to wait until you see signs of degradation. Of course, the easiest maintenance is none at all, no finish, just let it weather gray. I like the next step up better, though, oil finish. Clean and reapply every year. Looks better than gray and takes almost no effort.

John

[Alan Lightstone]

How much graying will there be with just an oil finish? No question that's an easy approach, but I really don't want this to gray at all. Every time I see an outdoor test on finishes, an oil finish appears not much different than nothing at all.

FWW (issue 205) liked the combo of penetrating epoxy sealer under Epifanes Gloss Varnish. I can see that being durable, but absolute hell to put on this chair, so that, I think, is a non-starter.

Practical Sailor magazine, when they reviewed one and two part finishes, liked the two part finishes the best (Interlux Perfection Plus was the best, but again, that would involve brushing and brushing and brushing a thick finish - not my cup of tea). Epifanes and several other good one part systems did great for one year. The two year mark they were deteriorating - so the lesson there appears to be that I will have to do maintenance on this every year, as you suggested John.

I could spray GF Exterior 450. I've gotten about 2 years out of it on an insert for a fire pit table that I made.

Any other good options for spray finishes besides GF Exterior 450?

[John TenEyck]

I don't know how much mahogany will gray over a year with an oil finish, Alan. I've only used it on Ipe' and it hasn't grayed at all in that period. The color fades back to the natural color of the wood, however, in only 3 or 4 months but it hasn't turned gray. Of course, I'm in NY and you are in FL, so things might go south more quickly down there.

John

[Prashun Patel]

If it were me, I'd use Watco Teak Oil wiped on and wiped off a few times, and then I'd plan on refreshing it each year.

You can try your hand at Epifanes, but while it is wonderful, it is THICK, and I had trouble thinning it enough to be wipeable. I ended up brushing it. It levels wonderfully and is forgiving, but does require a stiffer, good quality brush to load and lay properly. Boat builders use brushes on the inside hulls of boats which have many surfaces, so it can be done. But you're in for some effort. IMHO, I would only use the Epifanes if you are serious about making a thick film finish. In this case, it builds to that million-dollar-yacht shine very quickly.

If you want an outdoor wiping varnish, I would use Waterlox Marine varnish. It works basically like Waterlox Original Sealer Finish. I am uncertain whether it is a spar varnnish as is Epifanes or a pure varnish as is Waterlox OSF.

YMMV on exterior finishes. I've concluded for me: don't expect too much out of exterior finishes and plan so that they are easy to apply and reapply as necessary.

Oh yeah, beautiful chair...

[John TenEyck]

Prashun, just to clarify, Epifanes is not intended to be used as a wipe on finish. Epifanes is very specific about how much each coat is supposed to be diluted and how it is to be applied. The last several of the required 7 coats are supposed to be applied straight from the can. I've never had any trouble doing that with the same natural bristle varnish brush I use for other varnishes. It self levels very well but you are right, after 7 coats it is a very thick film. But that's the whole idea behind providing a durable finish. You are also right that it looks like a million bucks.

John

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[Prashun Patel]

i must have misread. I thought Alan wanted to thin Epifanes to create a wiping varnish. All I meant is I tried to do that and it didn't work well for me.

[Alan Lightstone]

Useful information all. I would like to either spray or use something like a wiping varnish - basically really don't want to have to brush this complex a surface. I can see me really ruining that.

I had noticed that Epifanes gives very detailed directions regarding thinning (and it's not too much). I've applied it on an exterior door which is was still in place (so vertical application), and preventing runs was next to impossible.

[Steve Schoene]

Best way to avoid graying is to make a fitted Sunbrella cover for whenever not in use.

For spraying Interlux Perfection would be good choice. It is a 2k Polyurethane, made for sun, and last I looked did have a matting additive available. Gulp at price but there is no free lunch.

[Alan Lightstone]

I think what I'm going with is spraying System Three S-1 Epoxy Sealer, followed by a number of coats of System Three Urethane Spar Varnish. A similar approach (I think) to what FWW liked in using Smith's CPES epoxy under Epifanes Gloss Varnish.

I may use some oil based stain underneath, but I'll have to make samples to look at them. No problems with that, right?

Anyone have experience using the System Three varnish?

[John TenEyck]

Good luck. No way I would spray solvent based varnish. The over spray will stick to everything. Why not use System Three water cleanup WR-LPU two part linear polyurethane coating?

John

[Alan Lightstone]

I did think of that, but I do have a good spray booth with an explosion proof fan. I'll just replace the filters frequently and keep the fan going for a while to make sure I get as much of the overspray as possible.

Not really set up to do this outdoors, and I've had no issues with overspray with lacquer, WB finishes, and shellac, though I know they are different animals. I've never sprayed Waterlox, though. Always avoided that.

[John TenEyck]

Best to put paper, plastic, whatever, on the floor so you can more easily deal with the over spray that ends up there. You're gonna have some great fly traps.

John

[Alan Lightstone]

I got a very nice call-back from a technician at System Three a few days ago. He went through, in detail, with me steps to maximize the durability and application of their products that I'm interested in. So, first of all, I wanted to give a shout out to a company with good customer service.

He said I can spray their S1 epoxy sealant also, but need good protective gear (which I have). He said thinning should not be required, but I'll have to play with it and check which tips to use and the viscosity. He also reiterated their advice about sealing all screw holes with epoxy, as that is the location where most of the finishes fail first. So I went ahead and did that last night.

I've taken apart the chair as much as possible (not much, I'm afraid), so as soon as the S-1 sealer arrives, I'll start experimenting and get to work. In the mean time, I'll put down a coat of stain on it to enhance the color.

Any suggestions for nice stains for mahogany? Also, any issues with the epoxy sealer going over that? I'm not going to need to shoot a coat of dewaxed shellac over that, I hope, as a barrier. The system three technician wasn't sure, but thought that if I gave the stain a week to dry, I'd be okay.

[Prashun Patel]

Alan-
Can't wait to see the final product!

As for staining mahogany, I humbly suggest you let that mahogany take care of itself. "Genuine" mahogany will start out golden rust, and matures to a deep rust eventually. I don't find it needs any stain/dye at all.

[Alan Lightstone]

Any issues with using the System Three S-1 epoxy sealer over a coat of BLO? I'm liking the look a lot better after a quick BLO coat, but don't know if the epoxy will be incompatible over that, or just won't soak in to the wood, which is the point of it.

[Alan Lightstone]

OK. Resurrecting an old thread of mine.

The Titanic Deck Chair has been outdoors now in the Florida sun for 4 years. Which, I might add, is four years longer than the original on the ship. :(

I did use the System Three epoxy sealer and then System Three urethane spar varnish.

The chair now finally looks like the finish is deteriorating and needs to be redone. Fortunately, I've had cushions over the main body and leg piece, so it's mostly the arms that need work.

Here's what they look like now:
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Any suggestions as to best process to refinish this? Curves everywhere, so sanding would be a beast. Plus multiple coats of epoxy with marine spar varnish over it.

[Alan Lightstone]

No hints on how to refinish marine spar varnish over epoxy?

Seems to be a common finishing method for boats.

[David Publicover]

I started reading this without checking the date and then realized it was rather late to add my advice. After 45 of caring for my own boats, I’ve learned that nothing lasts for too long in the bright work world and that before you put a product on you should consider how to get it off! Not too much help now I understand. I’d probably tackle it with a sharp scraper and maybe carefully with a heat gun to see if that helped. Sanding would be slower but maybe safer. I’m unaware of any easy way but would be happy to learn of one; I have some revarnishing to do myself.