turner's elbow?

[Trevor Mills]

The more time I spend at the lathe, the more my left elbow gets sore. Nothing too serious but could it be solved by adjusting my set up, or is it just a one more consequence of getting older?

[John K Jordan]

Side effect of your addiction. If it is the same physical condition as is commonly called "tennis elbow" my doctor recommended one of the small elastic bands available at the drug store that apply pressure at a specific point on the forearm. Worked for me even though I hadn't played tennis for half a century.

JKJ

[Scott Lux]

I thought turners elbow was a permanent hole in the right elbow from forgetting the live center was in the tailstock. Again.

[Brice Rogers]

I thought turners elbow was a permanent hole in the right elbow from forgetting the live center was in the tailstock. Again.
Scott, that made me laugh. Like many other woodworkers, I periodically wear a small bandage on my right elbow. :)

[John K Jordan]

Shoot, I must not be a real turner yet. Somehow I've missed being awarded that bandage, er, badge of distinction. I'll try harder.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

Well, I am pondering what you are doing that puts stress on the left elbow... My left hand just sits on the tool shaft, and does no other work. Maybe of you are doing the pull type cut, with the handle way down low in the right hand, and the left up on the shaft, and pulling with both hands/arms/body. Most of the time, my tools are held level, flutes rolled over on the side.

robo hippy

[Keith Westfall]

Turners elbow can also be caused by the repeated motion of reaching for your wallet....

Or so I've heard...

[John K Jordan]

Could the lathe and/or tool rest be too high, having to hold the left arm in an odd way? Subconsciously pushing down against the rest too hard, tensing up, twisting the torso too much? Turning left handed?

I know, take some turning videos from different angles, someone may spot something.

[Thomas Canfield]

My problem is my right elbow. It has been acting up lately, but then so have other joints, so maybe it is just Arthur. I have made slip on wood covers for the points on my live centers to avoid the hole in elbow problem, and a club member showed using a golf ball as cover. The cover also serves to keep from marring a turning when applying pressure if the point is to be avoided.

[hu lowery]

Could the lathe and/or tool rest be too high, having to hold the left arm in an odd way? Subconsciously pushing down against the rest too hard, tensing up, twisting the torso too much? Turning left handed?

I know, take some turning videos from different angles, someone may spot something.



This would be my guess too. Amazing how awkward things get when a lathe is only an inch or two too high. Still not comfortable with my new lathe, I think I'm going to build a platform in front of it even though I am 6'-2".

Hu

[Roger Chandler]

This would be my guess too. Amazing how awkward things get when a lathe is only an inch or two too high. Still not comfortable with my new lathe, I think I'm going to build a platform in front of it even though I am 6'-2".

Hu

This goes to show what different preferences we develop ergonomically. Hu, I am 5'11" and my G0766 is fine for me. I do have a 3/4" rubber mat that I stand on when working on it. I think when we are able to put the handle down by our hip, that the cut and tool are much more solidly supported, so for those who find the 0766 a bit high, that might be why.

[Bob Bergstrom]

Tennis elbow is caused by a poor backswing. It is more likely to ocur when picking something heavy in a backhanded motion it can get quite sore and take as long as 6 month to a year to heal. The elbow wraps with an air pillow work well.

[Tony De Masi]

I'm guess there may be some "white knuckling" going on here. Relax your left hand/arm but continue your same motions.

[John Grace]

I've suffered from bouts of tennis elbow on and off for decades from, yes...playing tennis, and it's the colloquial term for elbow tendonitis. Typically...the tendonitis is caused either by excessive vibration to the elbow area where the tendons connect or by prolonged poor ergonomics. In the short term...the old phrase 'doctor it hurts when I do this' comes to play, 'then don't do that'. Rest, ibuprofen, ice, ice massage, and proper strengthening of the forearm muscles will alleviate the pain. Long term...you may need to look at your ergonomics of how you work at your lathe. As others have suggested proper working height, tool angles, etc all play a role in proper ergonomics to minimize re-occurrence of the inflammation. While it will all depend on what works for you, I found a short compression sleeve on my upper forearm 'deadend' or otherwise reduced the amount of vibrations going to elbow. Otherwise, I found the best over-all key to preventing tendonitis is to not let it sink in...listen to your body as you work and if it starts to hurt then don't try to 'fight through' it, you're simply inflaming the tendons more and more. Good luck and speedy recovery...John

[Stan Calow]

I got t- elbow from bad ergonomics on the computer keyboard. Turning just made it worse.

[Trevor Mills]

Well, I am pondering what you are doing that puts stress on the left elbow... My left hand just sits on the tool shaft, and does no other work. Maybe of you are doing the pull type cut, with the handle way down low in the right hand, and the left up on the shaft, and pulling with both hands/arms/body. Most of the time, my tools are held level, flutes rolled over on the side.

robo hippy

Thanks Reed, I suspect you are on to something that might be very helpful. I am left handed so when I'm doing the inside of the bowl, my dominant hand (left) isn't just passively sitting on the tool rest, - I've developed a workable technique where both hands are doing work. This is likely causing the strain. On the outside of the bowl, my finishing cuts are pull cuts, but my left hand is low. I don't think this is causing the elbow strain because I'm turning my body to guide the tool as much as using my hands, and there isn't much strain on either elbow.
I'm looking to upgrade to a larger lathe and it will be one where I can turn off the end. That will allow me to use my dominant hand to guide the tool and I think, relieve stress on the elbow.
I have my spindle height about an inch or so below elbow height.
thanks again.

[Steve Mawson]

While I have never had any issues with elbows at the lathe I did at work and the elastic did help recover. Mostly its my back when I stand at the lathe for hours at a time. Need to take breaks and stretch. Keep experimenting, you should be able to get it comfortable, some good suggestions here as well.

[John K Jordan]

Mostly its my back when I stand at the lathe for hours at a time. Need to take breaks and stretch.

When I was chained to computer I used to set a timer to remind me of the breaks and stretching.

I too have had back pain and foot pain (plantar fasciitis made worse by standing at the lathe too long. All that has been gone for a couple of years. What helped me was the breaks and stretching, thick rubber mat on the floor, shoes with wonderful cushion (Telic), and probably most important, learning the habit of good posture when standing and moving around (no slumping, stand tall, head pulled back so spine is straight)

JKJ

[Robert Willing]

I don't get the elbow problem just my back on the right side. I kind of hunch over at the lathe, or it might be my 77 years young.

[Reed Gray]

Trevor, the pull cut can be done as a push cut if you just stand on the other side. This type of cut does tend to be more of a two handed push/pull. The more standard push cut is a push cut with the hand on the handle doing all of the work. It really freaked me out to see a turner demoing at our club, Chris Stott I think, he started his inside cut with a gouge, totally took his left hand off the gouge, and turned to look at the audience as he cut. That is the advantage of the bevel rubbing cut. The tool rest supports the tool, the handle hand is the gas pedal, and you move with your body to steer. Simple concept, but some times difficult to apply. This is also learning to let the tool do all the work. For me, when roughing, I don't use this that much, and cut as I want, but it is absolute necessity for finish cuts. If you ever get down to Oregon, let me know. Shop is open most of the time.

Oh, the right/left hand thing... For me, not a problem as I started playing handball in grade school, did some juggling, and kicked hacky sack a lot (have a number of friends up there in Vancouver who do that), so by nature I can use both sides fairly well. If you figure that the hands actually only hold on to the tool, and the body does most of the work, it gets easier.

robo hippy

[hu lowery]

This goes to show what different preferences we develop ergonomically. Hu, I am 5'11" and my G0766 is fine for me. I do have a 3/4" rubber mat that I stand on when working on it. I think when we are able to put the handle down by our hip, that the cut and tool are much more solidly supported, so for those who find the 0766 a bit high, that might be why.


Roger,

I have a thin pad. I want multiple layers of the gray pad but I'm finding that harbor fright has reduced thickness and quality of their gray pads so I am going to have to find a glue that works. The interlocking edges don't for me.

Some of the issues include the working end of my lathe being two inches lower than the tailstock due to very unlevel concrete. The original banjo contributed to the issue too, I couldn't drop the tool rest down so I couldn't drop the handle on my gouge like I wanted to without being a long ways off of the tool rest. The set up of the new lathe has always felt awkward and my turning has suffered for it. Getting ergonomics right for me is going to be a pretty pressing goal after the first. I suffer withdrawal when I don't turn for a few days but getting the details of my shop right might need to take priority for awhile longer. Vacuum chuck, steady rest/follow rest, video hollowing set-up, getting my workstation set up properly for me, all works in progress. I think I got too many things started at once since I can add lots of wood to rough to that list as well as life on the farm.

Not enough hours in a day and now I'm enjoying a solid week of rain! The weatherman called for .1" inches of rain today. So far he has missed by at least seven tenths and I may see an inch before the day is done. Think I'll go work in the barn awhile Christmas day or not. Nothing going on and I am bored.

Hu

[Roger Chandler]

Hu, I got a horse stall mat at Central Tractor Supply........they have two sizes....the smaller of the two fits between the leg castings on the G0766. If one were to need to elevate themselves, they could get two of those and stack on top of one another, and gain 1.5" in height and of course have the anti-vibration qualities as well. Only thing is, if not paying attention, it can be a trip hazzard, but you can have plenty of room to work around the lathe before stepping off the pad.

[Brice Rogers]

Some of the issues include the working end of my lathe being two inches lower than the tailstock due to very unlevel concrete. The original banjo contributed to the issue too, I couldn't drop the tool rest down so I couldn't drop the handle on my gouge like I wanted to without being a long ways off of the tool rest. The set up of the new lathe has always felt awkward and my turning has suffered for it. Getting ergonomics right for me is going to be a pretty pressing goal after the first. ...

Hu

Here's an unsolicited idea: Since your concrete is way off from level, perhaps you either (1) sawcut the concrete under the lathe and remove it and then replace it with a new pad that is a bit below your current floor level ?? or (2) cut out and remove four "pockets" in the concrete, re-pour 4 new pads and make the height so that the legs go into the pockets. That way you could solve the leveling issue and also the height issue.

I've thought of building a platform too, but I suspect that it would just be a matter of time until I tripped and ended up with an unplanned trip to the emergency ward....

[John K Jordan]

I got a horse stall mat at Central Tractor Supply

Home Depot carries anti-fatigue mats, about 3/4" thick but quite soft. They are good. Woodcraft carries long mats which are good but they are expensive now.

For me, horse stall mats are too dense with not enough give for my feet. They have to be tough for the 1200 lb horses! Might be good to put over the entire shop though - I got a discount when I bought a pallet of 25.

JKJ

[hu lowery]

The catches to a reworking of the floor is that this dairy barn isn't the lathe's permanent home. Hoping to build a shop in the next year or two if I am still turning. Meantime the dairy barn is designed to be hosed down twice daily and I don't want to interfere with the design in case some idjit wants to dairy farm in the future.

I turned a couple hours today and things are much better with the new banjo that lets me drop the tool rest down where it needs to be. Still want to pay a visit to a milling machine to redesign a bit on the toolrest, take another ten or fifteen degrees off the relief angle and probably round the top. I have already reground a few degrees because there was a spot where a grinder had hit the tool rest and they had hidden the defect with paint. The spot was about an inch long and seemed to be where I always wanted to put my gouge. A few discreet passes with a side grinder and some draw filing, things are much mo'better!

I bought a box of the HF interlocking floor mats when they were on sale, five or six bundles. The foam isn't much but I'm going to try to use it for awhile. If I were to build a platform I might make duck boards which work surprisingly well.

Hu

[cody michael]

I have yet to hook my elbow on the live center, but I did hook my pinky once, it was pretty bad, tore off a 3/8 by 3/8 flap of skin right on the elbow of my pinky.