Dust Collection

[Scott Welty]

I'm moving my shop to bigger space. More business coming in so I want to first upgrade from broom and dustpan to dust collection. Looking at Grizzly 1.5 HP for about $300 but wanted to run this buy the experts as usual. I'm still small, one man shop.

Scott

[glenn bradley]

These discussions so often spin out of control and lose site of the original question. The suitability will depend on your tools and which 1.5HP Griz you are talking about. I still run a 1HP Delta bagger for the jointer only. I did have to equip it with a properly sized upper bag and converted the lower to a solid bag (I just slipped a plastic bag inside the original way-to-open-weave lower bag). You can easily see how undersized most offerings are (it is quite surprising) using the calculator here (http://www.americanfabricfilter.com/air-to-cloth-calculator.php). A pleated filter allows more area in less space but, can also be undersized. If I could put my DC outside or vent it outside I would take a 3HP bagger over my cyclone any day.

Since I need to return the air into my work space where I breathe, .3 micron filtering is a must (I won't bore you with how I am on medication for life due to not taking dust collection seriously from the start). If I want to keep a .3 micron filter clean and working well I need the separation of a cyclone. Hopefully your larger space will allow you to vent the return air outside as this is much easier/safer but, this is all just my opinion. So, to better answer your question:
- Which Griz are you talking about?
- What machines do you need to collect from?
- How far will the longest duct run be?

[Scott Welty]

Glenn - Yeah I thought this might open up a too large can of worms so some more details. My shop is about 1000 square feet with very high ceiling. I want to collect from my Jet PRo Shop table saw and my router table mostly. I don't think there will be any option for venting to the outside. I don't mind moving the machine on occasion to another tool (drill press for example) and I see that most of these things are on wheels. I would expect to mostly leave it in place though where it can work with table saw and router. I've mounted the router in the end of my out-feed table. I thought a model with 2 ports would be good then.
Scott

[Scott Welty]

Follow Up: I'm looking pretty hard at this JET model

(http://www.amazon.com/JET-DC-650BK-Dust-Collector-Filter/dp/B001F0R7H8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450971311&sr=8-2&keywords=jet+dust+collection)

[John Schweikert]

Honestly 650cfm isn't enough for some machines or a ductwork system. Been there with a wall unit that was rated around 600.

I bought a Jet 1100cfm unit a while back and it's excellent for everything I use, table saw, jointer, bandsaw, drum sander.


Follow Up: I'm looking pretty hard at this JET model

(http://www.amazon.com/JET-DC-650BK-Dust-Collector-Filter/dp/B001F0R7H8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1450971311&sr=8-2&keywords=jet+dust+collection)

[Martin Wasner]

Buy the largest unit you can so you don't grow out of it immediately.

[Ole Anderson]

Most of us search for the most economical solution to a problem, that is natural. But think about dust collection. Once you have it, you will use it virtually every time you fire up a machine that generates dust or chips. You will use it for your TS, BS, router table, jointer, planer, chop saw, sander and so on. It will get used more often than any one of your machines. And ask yourself why you have one. To keep your shop and your lungs clean. Don't think of your DC rig as an add-on to your shop, think in terms of it being the most important tool in your shop. Now base your purchase decision in those terms.

[John Lankers]

Been there, done that.
I went from a bag filter to a 1 micron canister filter and now to a 5 hp cyclone with .3 micron filter, often you get what you pay for. IMHO any "bagger" is a waste of money, you blow exactly the fine dust you should capture back into your shop, also a 1 1/2 hp d/c is barely borderline if you're trying to effectively collect from 2 ports on the table saw.
Buy your last dust collector first, it'll only hurt once.

[Jim Dwight]

I used to use a little Delta 1hp DC. It came with bags that leaked all the fine dust, I think they were 30 micron. That was worse that sweeping up. Yes, it saved some of the mess but I breathed more dust because it blew the fine stuff up in the air. I switched to better bags and it was OK. But I still had a collection of fine dust all over the shop. I don't know if the better bags were still leaking or it was just the stuff from the poor bags. Later I got a pleated cartridge filter. I am pretty sure it worked well but it needed cleaning more frequently than I wanted to do it.

What I do at the moment is I have my shop vac on a little cart with an Oneida dust deputy hooked up to it. The shop vac has a hepa filter so it doesn't put the nastiness back out. Actually, very little dust makes it to the vacuum. I haven't had to empty it or clean the filter since putting the cyclone on. I've emptied the bucket under the cyclone many times.

I'm still working on this shop. I just got a workbench made (Paulk inspired) and am finishing up a flip top cart for my Ryobi AP-10 planner and Jet mortiser. I still have more storage to make and things to organize. If I set up a DC in this shop, it is very unlikely to be the 1hp Delta. It just didn't have enough power and the cartridge filter got dented in the move. My plan would be to get the Harbor Freight 2hp and the Oneida Super Dust Deputy and exhaust outside. I don't heat or cool the shop so it won't matter that I shoot inside air outside. Usually when I'm in my little shop the doors are open anyway. The HF unit has two significant advantages. First, it is cheap. Second, it is set up to have ducts on both sides so it should be easier to hook to a cyclone. There are lots of threads about people setting up a DC system something like this.

[Clark Harbaugh]

I have a 1.5HP Grizzly (don't recall the actual part number). The best thing I ever did was tear it apart, build a separator, swap in a pleated filter (as mentioned above), and upgrade to 6" duct-work. Is it perfect? Nope, but its better than a stock dust collector, relatively inexpensive, and it fits in my 2-car shop. If you look closely in the pic, it's tucked away in the back corner.


327864

[Jim Andrew]

It is cheaper to start out with a machine you need, and works for you than to start out with an inadequate machine, have to sell it at a discount, and then purchase the machine you really need. Besides the cost of setting it up, using it and finding it inadequate, which takes time and money.

[glenn bradley]

Glenn - Yeah I thought this might open up a too large can of worms so some more details. My shop is about 1000 square feet with very high ceiling. I want to collect from my Jet PRo Shop table saw and my router table mostly. I don't think there will be any option for venting to the outside. I don't mind moving the machine on occasion to another tool (drill press for example) and I see that most of these things are on wheels. I would expect to mostly leave it in place though where it can work with table saw and router. I've mounted the router in the end of my out-feed table. I thought a model with 2 ports would be good then.
Scott

Right you are ;-) I have about 600+ square feet. During the time that moved my DC from one machine to the next, the little 1HP Delta (similar in specs to the Jet you show) worked well. This is also the method that permeated the air with fine dust and contributed greatly to my current problems. I solved this by adding an American Fabric Filter top bag (if you looked at the calculator you can see that the Jet bag is barely a fourth of the size required).

As others have said, we start small and build on that or sometimes a windfall comes along and we do a mass upgrade. I moved the 1HP machine to my jointer and it does fine with the larger chips and the AFF bag lets little fine stuff through (although, don't kid yourself, its there).

I added a 2HP cyclone and have been sorry I didn't force a 3HP into the space ever since. The 2HP was a wonderful jump in performance and allows me to work without a respirator much of the time. In the next shop, the 2HP may become the "secondary" collector as would like to add a more powerful one.

I will say that the Jet is priced high for what you get. You can get a 1300+ CFM Grizzly for that price in the G0786. There are a wide variety of formats and filter types in that price range. If you go with a top bag, bear in mind that you may end up paying another $200 to get one large enough to avoid back-pressure. If your top bag inflates like a balloon, its too small. You want that air passing through, not choking your flow. Good luck on your journey. Go with what you can afford now, you can always upgrade later if the cash flow allows.

[Bob Grier]

I have the 1 3/4 hp Powermatic/Jet I bought surplus and then after about a month, I replaced the top filter bag with Jet canister and use a Jet plastic bag inside the bottom canvas collection bag. The plastic bags were free to me but I have only used one in 3 years. I just dump the collection bag in the yard waste container and reuse it. I also use a separate Jet air cleaner mounted to the ceiling because my shop is my garage connected to the house and dust is a PIA if it gets in the house.

I feel the dust collector I have is minimal cfm when connected to the planer, downdraft sanding station, or the miter saw. It is not expensive to up size the dust collector. Adding canister is more expensive but I think a good idea. I always use a separate can between planer or jointer and dust collector to collect chips because they fill the bag in short order and it is much easier to dump the can than the bag. Also, I can recycle the chips to my brother who has chickens or to my yard.

A used or new dust collector with the higher power and then upgrade with a new filter canister down the road might be a good way to go. If you buy a used machine you might be able to get some ducting and fittings such as blast gates or 90s for a chip collector.

[Bill Adamsen]

I too have found installation effort (and associated costs) to be disproportional to the initial cost of just the cyclone. A dust collection system is something you will use all the time. My recommendation is to install the largest system your electrical system can handle, and the appropriately sized ductwork. There was a thread yesterday touching on some of these criteria.touching

[Ray Newman]

Bill Adamsen: +1

Based upon personal experience and from have I seen with others, if you move the DC from one machine to another, you will soon suffer from the "Just One Cut Syndrome."

That is: "It's just one cut, so why should spend the time and effort to move the DC?" It is a PITA to move and hook up the DC from machine to machine especially when you get busy or are rushed.

Agree with what the others posted about the CFM and filter bag micron size.

I went from a Delta move around DC to a Oneida cyclone with 6" hose. Glad I did and no regrets at to its initial costs. Even without running the ambient air filtration unit, the unit captures all of the fine dust at its source.

[Tim McCarthy]

Go big or stay home!! If you have a business and it's growing, get the biggest DC unit you can afford (then upgrade from there) and start with 6" duct work. Once you have a big system you can always add on instead of replacing. Start big and you will never regret it. I have a 3HP Grizzly unit that lives OUTSIDE my shop and just blows the dust into a pile. I used 4" black sewer pipe for duct and built my own blast gates out of 1/4 PVC sheet material. Each gate has a micro switch wired in series to hold the start relay for the unit motor. When you open a gate, the unit starts. The effectiveness of my system has more to do with the "hook-up" to the machine than the size of the unit. If I were to start over I'd use the same unit but bigger (6") duct pipe.

Good luck!!

[Martin Wasner]

I don't remember the model number, but I've got two Powermatic two bag units. I think 1900cfm, so about 1000cfm usable once the bags are caked up. It was a good choice to start with. We run our main lines in 8". The velocity drops way down, but that's rarely an issue, worst case you open everything and it'll suck the pipes clean of heavier material from the shapers that's just resting on the bottom of the pipe. Originally I just had one, when I moved into the current shop I picked up another. When we got the new widebelt I ended up having one on each head and it's barely enough even with everything else closed down. I've got a 20hp 6500(ish) cfm baghouse waiting to be installed at the new shop that is going to be adequate for a while.

Nobody ever says "I've got too much dust collection". If I won the lottery, I'd add up the hp of all the equipment and that'd be my starting point for dust collection. Worst case you have a gate just open to the shop pulling excess air to keep the pipe from collapsing. It's best to spend the money now and smaller units are pretty easy to dump on craigslist and sell quickly when the time comes.

Good luck!

[Ken Grant]

I don't remember the model number, but I've got two Powermatic two bag units. I think 1900cfm, so about 1000cfm usable once the bags are caked up. It was a good choice to start with.
Good luck!

Are you running these as separate units or are they connected somehow?

To the OP: I am using the blower from a grizzly 3 hp double bagger, exhausting outside. All 6 inch piping, hooked up to 8 machines. Pretty short runs (shop is ~1000 sq. ft) It does a decent job with one gate open at a time, sometimes I wish it was bigger.

[Dave Arnett]

You can crunch all the numbers you want. The bottom line is.....


Go big or stay home!! If you have a business and it's growing, get the biggest DC unit you can afford (then upgrade from there) and start with 6" duct work. Once you have a big system you can always add on instead of replacing. Start big and you will never regret

Good luck!!

If you can work it into the budget, start with 8" duct work.

[Ole Anderson]

You can crunch all the numbers you want. The bottom line is.....



If you can work it into the budget, start with 8" duct work.

Actually, for most 2-3 hp cyclones, 7" diameter main run duct is the sweet spot between pipe friction losses and maintaining a minimum velocity presuming you are shooting for 800 cfm at your TS. 5 hp?, probably 8" would be the right size.

[Martin Wasner]

Are you running these as separate units or are they connected somehow?



Separate. One feeds one half of the shop and vice versa. The widebelt is basically in the center and has separate ports for each head, that's how I run two dust collectors on one machine.

[David Kumm]

Two separate baggers are a pretty good way to run a WB. Cartridges are too hard to clean unless pulse jet and oversize singed felt bags give good filtration and are easy to bang clean. Bags get a bum rap but if you have the room for oversize and need fine dust filtration, they can be better than cartridges. Dave

[mike mcilroy]

+1 for the been there done that.
1 Shop vac to each machine, home rigged hook ups for most= no good waste of time and money
2 1.5 hp 2bag unit with 4" ductwork= no good waste of time and money
3 3 hp grizzly cyclone 6" ductwork. Fantastic wish I'd started with it. I I am happy to run the miter saw and router table where I used to fear how I was going to feel for days after.
My shop is 25' x 25' 8' ceilings can run with 2 blast gates open only the miter needs to be single gate only.
I resisted because of the cash outlay but ended up here anyway. If you can afford it don't make the same mistake we did.

[Scott Welty]

OK! I get it...bigger IS better! I'm now looking at the Grizzly 2 canister unit (It's on sale too). I'll order soon as I'm moving into new shop in a week. Thanks all!

Scott

[David C. Roseman]

OK! I get it...bigger IS better! I'm now looking at the Grizzly 2 canister unit (It's on sale too). I'll order soon as I'm moving into new shop in a week. Thanks all!

Scott

Scott, bigger is good, for sure. You won't regret it. Keep in mind that noise is a big deal with any stationery DC system, especially if you're working for hours at a time commercially. So if you're building a new shop, consider enclosing the unit in a room or shed immediately outside and running an 8" main trunk through the wall, splitting off from there. Also have a look at the older-style 4-bag Grizzly for a lot less $$. http://www.grizzly.com/products/3-HP-Dust-Collector-with-Aluminum-Impeller-Polar-Bear-Series/G1030Z2P With a unit that size, plumbing your bench machines with 4" PVC or metal pipe and 4" gates will easily let you operate two at once and still collect a whole lot of dust and shavings.